Obito VS RinneSharrigan Sasuke
- Thread starter HeavenlySolace
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Keep dreaming, Sasuke has nothing on Kamui. He goes on cooldown after 1 swap (Proved from manga) from which Obito can easily take advantage off and snipe the kid's head off with twice the speed.
Every thing else sasuke has is all power, and power doesn't matter against Kamui. Inadra's arrow gets phased and results in a drained Sasuke gg.
AlphaScythian
Active member
Dreaming are we? Lol
1 - Sensing kakashi leaving the spot would be irrelevant since he was fodder status thus naruto wouldnt waste time asking him to save sakura.
2 - Well because it wasnt there yet, thanks for concession
3 - Geez :vincent: He did sense sasuke, he was just caught up in his own expectations that it should have been sasuke, but realized his mistake right away U_U
Alright, i guess i can concede this one, but take notice that it got stabilized so fast that rest of susanoo wasnt even formed yet, thus stabilization is not slow by any means.
Given the
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susanoo can be formed under 1/1000 of second with stabilization process taking another 1/1000. PS is as instant as it gets so, no surprise kakashi formed it so fast.While its a fact sasuke takes time to activate his swap as we can see naruto made it half way to kaguya before he swapped.
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It clearly says doubled jump speed, thus whole process. Thank for concession.
Gedo was sniped after madara used summoning technique.
FTG of the clone is slower then that of original.
Both techniques regarded as instant but take time and w/o the blood or marks, as you justified.
You either dont know what what you're saying or biased. So when manga says DMS doubles jump speed, you take it like it opens the wormhole twice as fast lol. Now opening worm hole is like opening the door, you still have to cross it and close it which is not full process like jump. So therefore you intentionally underrate Kamui with shit like that and then you go 'when did i say that?'
Bold is completely out of an ass statement w/o any manga back up. Just how does this theory goes in face of the fact madara was owned by naruto with less senjutsu?
1) Minato not feeling pain is but your baseless claims, shadow clones feel it and they are but chakra mimicking original so fail.
2)So its not a failure to react if it's point black range? Didnt Obito react to marara from same distance? Didnt madara react to point black SM minato? Gai example is not suiting as he was attacking from much bigger distance.
RustledJimmies
Banned
10/10 comeback
Will read again.
So, because he was fodder status, he couldn't be sensed ? Shit logic, especially when SM Naruto before he went to the war was able to sense all battlefields, its details (even non chakra based objects such as rocks) and the fodders that were fighting and dying in it, being fodder level isn't an excuse.
Even after it was activated and was right in his face, and yet he didn't know that the chakra signature didn't belong to Kakashi (and Obito, in this case), instead he thought it was Sasuke's, the guy who was right behind him and didn't even move an inch.
He sensed Sasuke after he saw Susano'o and thought that it was Sasuke's, if he actually was using his sensing before that, he would have known that Sasuke didn't move an inch, that Kakashi left his spot and that the chakra signature in that PS belonged to Kakashi, he knew none of those.
Never said it is slow, but the fact that PS was shown fully formed without going into the lower stages is enough evidence that it was summoned before, especially since Sasuke saw it and seemed surprised about it before it was shown on panel.
-No evidence that the stabilization process is that fast.
-No evidence that it's as fast as Susano'o spawns.
Not instant, not even close. 1/1000 of a second isn't instant.
-Naruto started running before Sasuke activated it.
-That proves nothing other than Naruto's reactions/reflexes are faster, which has been obvious for some time now.
The above response to this specific point is assuming that you're saying that Sasuke takes time to activate his teleportation. If you're saying that the teleportation takes time to get Sasuke to another location after he has already been teleported, then you're wrong again as teleportation takes no travelling whatsoever, thus it takes no speed, as speed = how far you can go in a specific amount of time, if he doesn't move at all and just appears somewhere else, it takes no time, nor does it take any travel, so it's instant.
Wrong again, once the wormhole is completely formed, it warps the target on contact, meaning that it's instant, as it takes no time, travel, therefore no speed, or rather, it's instant, you can't be any faster than that. It's obviously the wormhole he was referring to, use some common sense.
Wrong again, its arm was warped right before it was summoned to Madara's location, again, summon is a form of teleportation, speed = how far you can go (move) in a given period of time (e.g. 10 km/h, 5 m/s, etc.), there's no travelling or movement in teleportation, you just teleport to somewhere else, so it takes no time, so it's instant.
Don't take translations literally, apply some common sense when reading something, does 0 have a half ? No, is there 1/4 of 0 ? No, 0 is 0, same should be applied for instant, FTG is teleportation, that's a well known fact, is teleportation travelling ? No, does it take any time ? No, does it take any speed ? No, is it instant ? yes.
You should have known by now that it is instant, and when something is instant, it can't get slower or faster, so they obviously meant that the clone's reaction was slower than the original's, as in order to activate FTG to doge something, first you need to react and then activate it so you can teleport somewhere else.
That is called prep, once the user has prepared the technique, its activation and effect is instant, or rather, the teleportation itself is instant, not the prep time.
Exactly, a door can be opened/closed twice as fast as you did before, depending on how fast you did it, crossing it and closing it have absolutely nothing to do with opening it, when you cross it, you're already in the other dimension, there's no in between, so it is instant.
The bold is just you acting like one of those butthurt fanboys who have no counter argument and cry about their fav (or his/her techniques) being underrated or hated on when someone say their fav loses and/or that their techniques are countered.
You could avoid the underlined by stopping putting words in my mouth.
1- I shouldn't need to, unless you think Obito and Madara's respective stats before the Juubi Jin enhancements is anything compared to their sage senjutsu boosts.
2- It isn't a theory, it's a well known fact.
3- Naruto has all of Hagoromo's Yang chakra, or rather, all of his Senjutsu, Madara doesn't, Naruto has more Senjutsu chakra.
4- Naruto and Madara have completely different techniques and approaches, they only have similar sources, A > B > C logic can't be applied here, Obito and Madara on the other hand have the exact same power from the exact same source, the only difference is that Madara had more of it.
Fail, me saying that messages don't feel pain is me saying that this "message" felt pain, implying that it wasn't just a message, it's me saying that it was part of Minato's chakra. If it was just a message, it wouldn't be able to interact with Naruto at all, try recording a voice message on a phone, and then play it, if you talk to it, it won't reply to you, Minato's "message actually interacted with Naruto", both physically and verbally. Stop replying to this point as it's irrelevant by now and you didn't really get it, so nvm.
Not dodging it =/= not reacting to it, Madara managed to outspeed SM Naruto and hit him before he could move, but he did react to the attack. Obito countered it because his Kamui doesn't require him to move an inch, he only has to react and then he activates it, Madara has no such technique, even if he reacted to it, he had no way of countering Obito and couldn't dodge at point-blank range. SM Minato wasn't at point-blank range, he was at close range, as he was a couple meters away from Madara before getting hit.
@Bold : The fact that he managed to react to a much faster opponent at a much longer distance only makes it a better feat, you're not downgrading it like that, sorry, try again.
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AlphaScythian
Active member
Glad you liked it.
You're the one assuming kakashi wasnt sensed while all i say that sensing him was irrelevant for naruto he wasnt expecting anything from him. Geez why is it so hard for you? :vincent:
It wasnt activated since naruto didnt see it nor sensed before. It was only activated after naruto has made request to sasuke.
There is also difference between sensing a person w/o controlling huge chakra monster and person with one. For example even sasuke could sense naruto going BM and sharing a chakra with SA when he cant sense shit.
You're oversimplifying it to ridiculous level, naruto has corrected himself as he even has question marks when he says 'sasukee eh?' He was just caught in his own expectation which he soon processed, its only human U_U
Im more then sure this process is even faster then spawning susanoo given the scan where he coats kurama and the coating is already stabilized before whole of kurama is covered. So it indicated stabilization process is faster then bringing out this massive chakra.
As far as brief moment goes yes it is.
No proof for that, sasuke was the one to say lets hit it, he had no reasons to wait besides activation time.
What this has to do with sasuke taking some time to swap?
I can even state both. I provided a scan where sasuke takes time to activate swap judging by distance naruto covered. Then we can see sasuke teleported on the other side while right hand of naruto has changed it's position up wards further indication that teleportation itself took some time.
Nope, i dont know where you're getting this half assed interpretation of kamui. Kamui is a process of opening a wormhole which then has suction power to drag target in by end of it the wormhole closes and this whole process is regarded as jump so DMS doubles everything here.
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Rofl? Its what i do, if one Instant is said to be longer then another i can only conclude that both instants hold some time to it otherwise comparison cannot be made via any logic U_U
This is if we go by your logic not mine. My logic defines instant as 'brief moment' thus one instantaneous technique can be slower or faster then another, just as this manga shows and proves.
Sureeee. You think repeating this over and over makes it true? Some hitler mentality (if you know the reference)
But you dont cross a door in instant U_U you take some time to do so. Geez.
You could avoid this by reading DB entry for kamui and understanding it better w/o coming up with your own baseless interpretations and analogies.
Everything you say here is useless given the fact Obito reacted to madara whilst latter didnt. Just bias.
It's a fact that sage's senjutsu of naruto is result of minor bijuu chakra he has and not sage himself. Having less biju chakra naruto still has better sensing then madara. Deal with it.
Cant believe you're this lost. So where is it stated that naruto has more chakra then madara? How can i take your statement seriously when once again you claim something w/o manga back up?
Oh right just because naruto has different moveset we now have to exclude his sensing skill being on par or superior to madara despite less senjutsu chakra because it goes against your objectives in this debate. Pathetic
No matter how you slice it, this porting of minato's chakra is not real deal and does not equate his true potential thus eating a punch here is irrelevant.
Who said anything about dodging lmao? You only further dig your own grave here, madara didnt react as he didnt even put up any block or anything like that example with naruto you used here. FAIL :leaf:
Minato was an arm length from madara, its point blank in my book just like Obito to had to swing his hand to strike madara.
Should i quote this senseless bullshit? =D
So me reacting to a speeding car from 5 meters is less of a feat then reacting to this car from 20 meters?
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RustledJimmies
Banned
Now you're just grasping at straws, your initial point was that because Naruto didn't sense PS, it wasn't there, going by your logic, Kakashi wasn't there, his Susano'o had Sasuke's chakra signature, he didn't activate PS and Sasuke wasn't behind him, etc. All of that is false, an inferior form Naruto with inferior sensing could sense every single shinobi and objects (even non-chakra based ones) with details in multiple battlefields miles away at the same time, and you just admitted that he did sense Kakashi and that it's irrelevant because he didn't expect a Susano'o from him, which doesn't make sense in any way possible, as Naruto knows both Sasuke's and Kakashi's respective chakra signatures, so he would know who activated Susano'o as it's nothing but a manifestation of the user's chakra, yet even AFTER he saw Susano'o, he thought it was Sasukes and ONLY THEN did he notice that Sasuke was actually behind him. So unless you bring some evidence or some damn good reason why he didn't sense any of the aforementioned chakra signatures, he wasn't using his chakra to sense, therefore your assertion is wrong, and thus, you have no point nor any real argument.
Already addressed above.
1- No evidence for that.
2- No evidence that Kakashi didn't leave his spot before when manga clearly implies that.
3- Even if it wasn't activated before Naruto speaking, Naruto speaking doesn't equate to Sasuke being ready to activate it beforehand, he was about to activate the technique until he saw Kakashi's PS, then cancelled it, your assertion would be valid if :
A) Sasuke was ready to activate it beforehand, similar to how he is in this particular match-up as he's facing him in a one on one battle.
B) If Sasuke actually used the technique ainstead of cancelling it, and if even then Kakashi reached Sakura first.
You're the one oversimplifying things here. If he was in sensing mode, he wouldn't even have considered the thought of Sasuke doing it when the latter was right behind him, he would have sensed Sasuke, Kakashi and the latter's chakra signature in Susano'o immeadiately after he activated his Susano'o, he didn't, meaning he wasn't using his sensing.
He seemed quite confident that it was Sasuke in this panel :
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And only in the other panel was it shown the "eeh ?" bit, meaning that he only realized that Sasuke was right behind him, which means that he initially thought it was Sasuke and then correcting himself when he realized otherwise :
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Still no evidence. Susano'o is spawned so fast that you can't see the formation process, it isn't there and then it's there, it was fast enough to be activated before lightning could hit the ground, something the human eye can't even hope to be able to follow, while the stabilization process is shown to take a few seconds and you can see the process of stabilising, as you can see a mix of both the complete Susano'o and the PS, meaning it was still being formed (i.e. stabilized).
Instant is something that goes from point A to point B without moving an inch and taking no time to do so (basically teleportation), thus, it has no speed, as speed equals distance over time, thus something that takes no time and doesn't travel at all can't e considered speed and is named "instant", the brief moment definition is usually for something that takes "an instant", or if something happened so fast that you didn't even feel the passage of time during the event, that something could be said to happen in an instant, none of the aforementioned definitions are completely incorrect, they're just slight exaggerations, and even then, they are only accepted not to be incorrect because nothing in real life has actually travelled from one place to another without moving an inch and taking any time to do so to date. However, you're misusing this definition way too much in this case, only an event can actually happen in an instant, a moving object can't move from one location to another without taking any speed as it both moves from one place to another and takes time to do so, meaning that it actually has speed, so it can't move in an instant, as moving alone means that you'll take time to do so. Teleportation on the other hand has no speed as the caster doesn't move an inch when he teleports, nor does it take any time for him to do so.
You previously accused me of selective reading, but you're doing the exact same thing now to support your argument. There's no such thing as "my logic" or "your logic" about instant, there are two definitions, the "brief moment one" is the one that, while it's not incorrect, it isn't exact and slightly exaggerates, while the other is the exact one, and thus, the word "instant" can be interpreted both ways when it comes to dialogue, and you can't know which one is actually the right one unless you know the details of the event, we know the details of the event, we know that they used teleportation to do it, and it's a scientific fact that instant teleportation has no speed whatsoever. You're just both overlooking and ignoring one definition to support your argument, and claiming it is based on your "logic", just so you can't be wrong, which you clearly are, definitions means that sometimes it can be one and other times it can be the other, not that you have the option to choose which definition is the right one while completely disregarding the other without taking into account what actually happened.
It was correct in the first time I said it, you didn't disprove it nor did you grasp it, I wouldn't need to repeat it if you did either of those.
Fail point and terrible comparison. Crossing the door or the wormhole isn't what makes it instant, the fact that the target goes to point A to point B (in this case, the point A being the regular dimension whilst point B is Kamui dimension) without having to travel on foot and instead just warping there on contact is what makes it instant (as I explained hundreds of times before, speed = distance over time, something that has no speed is called instant). And once again, just because the preparation and the other mechanics of the technique aren't instant, it doesn't mean that the effects of the technique won't be.
Not my fault you think the effects aren't instant just because some of the mechanics behind it aren't. Shit logic at its finest.
*Facepalm*, Obito's Kamui requires Obito to mentally react, not physically react, Obito hitting Madara doesn't equate to Madara not reacting at all, if someone punches you in the face, you will mentally react, does this mean that you are able to dodge or deflect the punch ? No, only if you're capable enough to do it, reacting to something doesn't equate to you being able to physically counter.
And slap yourself for even implying that post Juubi removal Obito has better sensing than Juubi Jin Madara when :
- Both of their powers come from the same source.
- Manga has already stated that Juubi Jin Madara has more of that power than Obito did back when the latter was a Jinchuuriki of the Juubi, let alone after the extraction.
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He received power directly from the sage, how in the world would it be from the Bijuu instead of the sage when he handed out power to him on panel.
Naruto received all of the Sage's Senjutsu chakra directly from the sage, you're the one who needs proof to show that Madara has more senjutsu chakra.
READ YOUR OWN POST ! You said that Naruto as owning Madara with less Senjutsu (which is also wrong), Naruto has different abilities when it comes to fighting, you didn't even mention sensing :
I already said, if you don't understand a point and it's not relevant enough, don't reply to it.
Dodging is a physical counter, the latter being mentioned by you. Naruto blocking is a physical counter, meaning he reacted physically and mentally, Madara didn't react physically, which isn't evidence that he didn't react mentally.
Minato was close from him, not at point blank range. Shooting someone with a gun at close range is basically shooting someone from 1 or 2 meters away, shooting someone at point blank range is basically shooting someone with the tip of the gun touching the target or very close from doing so. There's a clear difference.
Sorry if I wasn't more clear. A car is equal to another car in speed, so reacting to a moving car from 5 meters away will obviously be a better feat than reacting to something just as fast from a longer distance, in this case, another car from 20 meters away. Now a fair comparison is, which is a better feat, reacting to a moving car from 5 meters away or reacting to a moving jet at 15-20 meters away ? Even then, Madara reacted to him after he distorted space and was in front of him, even then, he managed to mentally react as he noted that Gai distorted space.
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AlphaScythian
Active member
^TL;DR Bored already.
Whatever-no-jutsu.
That massive font size, bold and caps, overload my butthurt-o-meter.
Whatever-no-jutsu.
That massive font size, bold and caps, overload my butthurt-o-meter.
HeavenlySolace
Member
I never thought this thread would get so many replies so I ignored it XD
Thanks for all the responces guys seems like Sasuke fodderizes him haha
Thanks for all the responces guys seems like Sasuke fodderizes him haha
Omar19992010
Active member
JJ Madara(Pre Shinju Absorption)>>JJ Obito
Sasuke was blitzing Madara left and Right and at the time after he absorbed the Shinju and at that time Madara could probably throw Juubito around like a Rag Doll.
Sasuke shits
Shinjuu tree is the juubi, Madara had the Gedo mazou.
Regardless of Sasuke Amenote is being used, he still can't kill Madara.
If not for Madara's gudodama's being taken across the country, the outcome will greatly differ.
HiddenSound
Active member
DMS Obito wouldn't even be able react to Sasuke's speed. He negs any form of Obito with the same negative amount of difficulty Lol