Attacks vs Susanoo

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
The pages catches enough to make a conclusion. I can draw it out:

You must be registered for see images


I could of sworn I said for the "sake of the augment". I'm not literally going to count all the hands thats was thrown at PS and what didnt.
I have no idea what the red outline is suppose to be. Please tell me what they are and why you believe that.

You dont see no explosion. All you see is TBB w/ blade cutting thorough any wood in its path..
sure we do, we see one explosion at the top right of the page, and it explodes outward. Plus, if you donʻt see any explosions, then that once again proves my point that the explosions were not reaching kyuusanoo. But anyways itʻs irrelevant since the punches would be the equivalent to a gojo the size of that explosion we saw at VoTe if the punches werenʻt creating the explosion, and therefore theyʻre on a completely different level than tobiramaʻs gojo.


The scan I post blocked the floor. Doesn't mean we can't deny that they are considering I just circled some still in that air. Or if you have super eye vision to location them here[ ]
once again that doesnʻt show anything, we donʻt see how far the pieces fly into the air, and we know the mokuton extended all over the battlefield yet all of it is gone and the only pieces we see are near madara. If your argument was true, weʻd see mokuton scattered across the battlefield in the same position.



I can deny your reasoning of laws of thermodynamics. The inflict to where is started denoting isnt going to cause the same damage where there was less stress. Even Tobirama's bomb show that against Deity gates.
Youʻre going to have to show me exactly what you mean by ʻinflict to where it started denoting isnʻt going to cause the same damage where there was less stress". How does tobiramaʻs bomb show that against the deity gates?




I never said = scale. I said in general thats where he Doton is at... So that scan is supporting me. @Bold.. why are we arguing to something we both agree on?
But based on what is his doton ʻin generalʻ at that level? The scan conclusively blows that ridiculous notion out of the water when we explicitly see his mountain smash technique is multiple times the size of the doton he used to push the juubiʻs leg up.



Brah.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images
Thatʻs conclusive proof that the senpou mokujin at VoTe is equal in size to the one Hashirama used against edo madara. 100% Kurama is slightly smaller than PS and mokujin, both mokujins were the same size.


I am put on the "defense" because you keep adding misconceptions after another, therefore having to correct you to make my points stand. And the whole purpose was to defend my arugment that you claims is untrue.

No, if you actually had a legitimate case, instead of just saying ʻmokujin at VoTe was smaller than the one that fought edo madaraʻ, youʻd show HOW much smaller it was, and show HOW BIG shinsuusenjuu is compared to the one that fought edo madara, and then use that in order to determine how big the explosions at VoTe was compared to gojo.
If you actually had a legitimate case, you wouldnʻt be doing things like arbitrarily circling parts of an explosion and saying that part was caused by a single punch, especially when it makes no sense since the punches were making contact with kyuusanoo and therefore the explosions each were generating had to have reached max radius of the total explosion they caused.
If you had a legitimate case, you wouldnʻt say things like mountain smash = random doton when the manga shows they are of a completely different scale.
 

Brother Numpsay

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
334
I have no idea what the red outline is suppose to be. Please tell me what they are and why you believe that.

You were arguing that they were impacts extends outside the scans, which shows the impact is much greater then seen in that scan. I showed that we can still see at the impact range from the scans I drew out.


sure we do, we see one explosion at the top right of the page, and it explodes outward. Plus, if you donʻt see any explosions, then that once again proves my point that the explosions were not reaching kyuusanoo. But anyways itʻs irrelevant since the punches would be the equivalent to a gojo the size of that explosion we saw at VoTe if the punches werenʻt creating the explosion, and therefore theyʻre on a completely different level than tobiramaʻs gojo.

No that is no where near in explosion, check you eyes. You can clearly see the ball still inside in a razor around it, chopping off wood.@Bold where did I disagree that TBB was hitting Susanoo in the first place?????

The punches were no where near where it made impact like Gojo. It seems you are forgetting that I am adding it by a single punch calculation while Hashirama producing in these scans indicate that it wasn't produce by a single punch but multiple. I didn't want to argue that a single punch< single bomb for the sake of the argument but you are forcing me to lead to that point.

once again that doesnʻt show anything, we donʻt see how far the pieces fly into the air, and we know the mokuton extended all over the battlefield yet all of it is gone and the only pieces we see are near madara. If your argument was true, weʻd see mokuton scattered across the battlefield in the same position.


@Bold thats my whole point. We don't see how far because it wasn't as far that you made in your claim. You can't calculate the final explosion impact dwarfing SS.

Check your eyes again I not circling the Mokuton left next to Hashirama, as we saw the full range of PS slash scan vs Hahshirama[ ]

Youʻre going to have to show me exactly what you mean by ʻinflict to where it started denoting isnʻt going to cause the same damage where there was less stress". How does tobiramaʻs bomb show that against the deity gates?


Tobirama starts the bomb on top of the deity gate, visual first[ > ]

You must be registered for see images


Brown circle is where the gates are still in position to where the start of the explosion is what. While the red shows the top part of the gates are send flying.

I can give you answer example by using TBB[ ] Hashirama riding on Mokujin, TBB denotes[ ]. Hashirama moves out of there and takes cover on the floor and shelter himself instead[ ]. He is safe while Mokukin was obliterated.

But based on what is his doton ʻin generalʻ at that level? The scan conclusively blows that ridiculous notion out of the water when we explicitly see his mountain smash technique is multiple times the size of the doton he used to push the juubiʻs leg up.


The f*ck I never compare it being the same power. I literally said that these are the type of size this guy can produce in no where did I say its the same level. The scan of that doton only shows on big juubi really was, which you already agree with me that juubi size = PS. So arguing the rest is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Thatʻs conclusive proof that the senpou mokujin at VoTe is equal in size to the one Hashirama used against edo madara. 100% Kurama is slightly smaller than PS and mokujin, both mokujins were the same size.

Except that senpou mokujin was never shown in the VOTE as I already showed you that base Hashirama mokujin = Kurama (before entering SM). Then in SM he produce the same Mokuton mokujin. SM dramatically increase Mokuton constructs so Mokujin would not be the same size as it was during SM and Base Hashirama VOTE. Therefore Hashirama can only dramatically increase one Mokuton entity. We have already seen what SS could of looked like without SM boost when White Zetsu used it.

No Kurama was slightly smaller then unstabilize PS even then it was premature to what he could do now:

You must be registered for see images


And Madara had Hashirama base Mokuton

You must be registered for see images


No, if you actually had a legitimate case, instead of just saying ʻmokujin at VoTe was smaller than the one that fought edo madaraʻ, youʻd show HOW much smaller it was, and show HOW BIG shinsuusenjuu is compared to the one that fought edo madara, and then use that in order to determine how big the explosions at VoTe was compared to gojo.


1. Except I did show Mokujin wasn't power up to dramatically increase when we see it used in Hashirama base for in VOTE and SM form in VOTE. Therefore SM power challenged its power only to SS. And before you flip, Shinsuu is the biggest senpou mokuton due to its 1000 hand packpack. Im not counting that back pack to get my point across that Senpou entity constructs = each other main body.

If you actually had a legitimate case, you wouldnʻt be doing things like arbitrarily circling parts of an explosion and saying that part was caused by a single punch, especially when it makes no sense since the punches were making contact with kyuusanoo and therefore the explosions each were generating had to have reached max radius of the total explosion they caused.


2. Actually I was helping you out in the circling explosion as it only proves that it was only produce by more then 1 arms, which will make the impact much weaker then what a single explosion of Gojo can do. Thats why I stated for the sake of the arugment, or else a single punch produce by SS<<<<single explosion produce by Gojo.

If you had a legitimate case, you wouldnʻt say things like mountain smash = random doton when the manga shows they are of a completely different scale.



3. Except I never made that claim that they are =. And I am not repeating myself since we already agree that juubi stand is about PS height.
 

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
You were arguing that they were impacts extends outside the scans, which shows the impact is much greater then seen in that scan. I showed that we can still see at the impact range from the scans I drew out.
Why do you believe the outlined portions of the impacts are produced from singular punches?



No that is no where near in explosion, check you eyes. You can clearly see the ball still inside in a razor around it, chopping off wood.@Bold where did I disagree that TBB was hitting Susanoo in the first place?????
you check your eyes, the explosion in the top right of the page is far larger than the other parts that we know the razors are cutting. Are you going to be honest, or are you going to make me outline the explosion to show you the size difference. Thereʻs no ball or razor in that explosion since..... the ball exploded.

The punches were no where near where it made impact like Gojo. It seems you are forgetting that I am adding it by a single punch calculation while Hashirama producing in these scans indicate that it wasn't produce by a single punch but multiple. I didn't want to argue that a single punch< single bomb for the sake of the argument but you are forcing me to lead to that point.
Youʻre right, the single punches werenʻt any where near the single explosions of gojo, they were FAR LARGER than the single explosions of gojo shown by the size of the explosion they were producing vs gojoʻs unless you do what youʻve done in the above scans where you arbitrarily outline something that youʻd like to be the result of a single punch with no logical basis.



@Bold thats my whole point. We don't see how far because it wasn't as far that you made in your claim. You can't calculate the final explosion impact dwarfing SS.
Thatʻs completely and utterly nonsensical. Just because we donʻt see how far something is = we canʻt make ANY logical conclusions about it? We saw a few branches of mokuton left on the battlefield after the explosion. What happened to all the other 99% of the branches? They were either vaporized or thrown far away from the battlefield. Therefore the majority of the branches are going to be far away from shinsuusenjuuʻs actual body if they are blown up, thatʻs what explosions do, they send things flying.

See itʻs stuff like this that proves that you donʻt have an actual legitimate argument. When something doesnʻt suit your agenda you try to write it off as something that canʻt be calculated because we canʻt be 100% certain of whatʻs true. If you truly had a legit argument, youʻd try to show how the evidence supports your conclusions.

Check your eyes again I not circling the Mokuton left next to Hashirama, as we saw the full range of PS slash scan vs Hahshirama[ ]
yep, I see a few branches that have fallen down from who knows how high in the sky. I also donʻt see 99% of the other mokuton which means the stuff was blown far away beyond the battlefield and therefore debri after explosion gets spread out over a much greater range than debri before an explosion.

I literally canʻt believe you are trying to actually argue that when a bomb goes off, it DOESNʻT scatter debri all over the place.



Tobirama starts the bomb on top of the deity gate, visual first[ > ]

You must be registered for see images


Brown circle is where the gates are still in position to where the start of the explosion is what. While the red shows the top part of the gates are send flying.

I can give you answer example by using TBB[ ] Hashirama riding on Mokujin, TBB denotes[ ]. Hashirama moves out of there and takes cover on the floor and shelter himself instead[ ]. He is safe while Mokukin was obliterated.
so none of that, absolutely none of that has anything to do with our argument since our argument for comparing both techʻs arenʻt based on how much damage they did to x construct, but rather the AoE of their explosions which independant of their position in regards to a target.



The f*ck I never compare it being the same power. I literally said that these are the type of size this guy can produce in no where did I say its the same level. The scan of that doton only shows on big juubi really was, which you already agree with me that juubi size = PS. So arguing the rest is just you arguing for the sake of arguing.

Youʻre words:
That guys Doton can cover a size of a summoning. PS and Senpou Mokuton are larger then summoning to where summoning can be around their foot level. The size of that Doton is Juubi foot level.

Now tell me, if your argument doesnʻt presuppose that the doton that kitsuchi used on the juubi is comparable to the one that covers boss summons, how in the world does your argument make sense?


Except that senpou mokujin was never shown in the VOTE as I already showed you that base Hashirama mokujin = Kurama (before entering SM). Then in SM he produce the same Mokuton mokujin. SM dramatically increase Mokuton constructs so Mokujin would not be the same size as it was during SM and Base Hashirama VOTE. Therefore Hashirama can only dramatically increase one Mokuton entity. We have already seen what SS could of looked like without SM boost when White Zetsu used it.
Hashirama was in SM when he created mokujin, therefore itʻs senpou mokujin. By your logic, Hashirama could have used a base mokujin to fight edo madara since he never says ʻsenpou mokujinʻ. Sure sennin mode drastically increases the power of a ninjutsu, but that doesnʻt mean it does that via increasing the SIZE of the ninjutsu. Narutoʻs senpou rasengan is the exact same size as his base rasengan. Narutoʻs senpou kagebunshins are the exact same size as his base kagebunshins. Madaraʻs senpou susanoo wasnʻt any larger than his normal V3 susanoo. So no, Hashirama used senpou mokujin since he created mokujin with senjutsu. Thereʻs no way you can argue that he didnʻt without utilizing a double standard.

No Kurama was slightly smaller then unstabilize PS even then it was premature to what he could do now:

You must be registered for see images
See, this is the kind of dishonest stuff that tells me you donʻt have a legit argument. If you were actually trying to argue what is true, rather than just trying to relentlessly push your agenda, you wouldnʻt ignore the fact that 100% Kuramaʻs head is far above unstabalized PSʻs head, and thatʻs while Kurama is so hunched over that

Then thereʻs the fact that 100% Kuramaʻs arm is of comparable length to unstabalized PSʻs arm, and therefore unless PS and Kuramaʻs bodily proportion differ by magnitudes 100% Kurama would be on the same size level as PS.

So no, all the evidence puts 100% Kurama at the same general size level as PS, and therefore the mokujin that was used at VoTe is the same size as the one used on edo madara.

1. Except I did show Mokujin wasn't power up to dramatically increase when we see it used in Hashirama base for in VOTE and SM form in VOTE. Therefore SM power challenged its power only to SS. And before you flip, Shinsuu is the biggest senpou mokuton due to its 1000 hand packpack. Im not counting that back pack to get my point across that Senpou entity constructs = each other main body.
You didnʻt, you literally did not show that. You fallaciously presupposed that SM massively increases the size of ANY technique or construct when it doesnʻt. You also completely ignored how PS compares to 100% Kurama.

And then thereʻs the fact that once again, you fail to address how big shinsuusenjuu would be compared to PS or senpou mokujin and in turn show how gojoʻs explosion would compare to the explosion we saw at VoTe. Debate honestly, if you donʻt have a good argument, just drop it.



2. Actually I was helping you out in the circling explosion as it only proves that it was only produce by more then 1 arms, which will make the impact much weaker then what a single explosion of Gojo can do. Thats why I stated for the sake of the arugment, or else a single punch produce by SS<<<<single explosion produce by Gojo.
But you literally gave zero basis for making the claim that the circled portion is the result of a single punch. you also completely ignored my argument which showed that it could not have been the result of a single punch. So until youʻve addressed that argument youʻve conceded that point.




3. Except I never made that claim that they are =. And I am not repeating myself since we already agree that juubi stand is about PS height.
You implicitly claimed that they are equal or of the same level when you stated that kitsuchi has dotons that cover bijuu, bijuu are the size of mokujin/PSʻs feet and kitsuchi used a doton that was the size of the juubiʻs feet.
 
Last edited:

TRE MERCER

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
13,251
Reaction score
487
Lol itss funny how you have to make things up just to get to me, when i clearlly said that he would nearly die from the slash, if he doesnt die,

besides my flaws are no where near as worse as urs
Make up do you really need me to browse back to that thread and post all that non-sense? Nearly die? L0l Hell stab is nothing but cutting/piercing force just like Ps blades. It's clear that Ps blades would obliterate him to absolute nothing. The fact that you even think he'll still have a body is just crazy. Ps blades cutting force can split mountains from miles away stop/

FRS>Danzo's Fuuton, and Danzo's Fuuton opened up a hole in V3 Susanoo. FRS would do much worse if not completely destroy it. Nukite pierced through the Raikage even though he tanked FRS with no damage, so either Nukite=FRS, but Nukite focuses all that power into the tip of the blade, thus yielding greater results, or Nukite>FRS, and it focuses that power into the tip, yielding much much greater results.

Either way, it'll pierce right through V3 with ease if FRS can do heavy damage to it, and it'd tear through V4 as well.
And this is where your wrong you claim that Danzo FRS > Danzo slicing Fuuton when they work in different ways. Danzo Fuuton slices thats it FRS cutting force hasn't been proven to be stronger than Danzo Fuuton nor has it's Blunt force been proven to obliterate a complete V4 Susanoo. Like i said before Nukite greatest feat is piercing 3rd Raikage it needs more impressive feats than that to convince me in can chop a v4 Susanoo to pieces.
 

Brother Numpsay

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
334
Why do you believe the outlined portions of the impacts are produced from singular punches?




you check your eyes, the explosion in the top right of the page is far larger than the other parts that we know the razors are cutting. Are you going to be honest, or are you going to make me outline the explosion to show you the size difference. Thereʻs no ball or razor in that explosion since..... the ball exploded.


Youʻre right, the single punches werenʻt any where near the single explosions of gojo, they were FAR LARGER than the single explosions of gojo shown by the size of the explosion they were producing vs gojoʻs unless you do what youʻve done in the above scans where you arbitrarily outline something that youʻd like to be the result of a single punch with no logical basis.




Thatʻs completely and utterly nonsensical. Just because we donʻt see how far something is = we canʻt make ANY logical conclusions about it? We saw a few branches of mokuton left on the battlefield after the explosion. What happened to all the other 99% of the branches? They were either vaporized or thrown far away from the battlefield. Therefore the majority of the branches are going to be far away from shinsuusenjuuʻs actual body if they are blown up, thatʻs what explosions do, they send things flying.

See itʻs stuff like this that proves that you donʻt have an actual legitimate argument. When something doesnʻt suit your agenda you try to write it off as something that canʻt be calculated because we canʻt be 100% certain of whatʻs true. If you truly had a legit argument, youʻd try to show how the evidence supports your conclusions.


yep, I see a few branches that have fallen down from who knows how high in the sky. I also donʻt see 99% of the other mokuton which means the stuff was blown far away beyond the battlefield and therefore debri after explosion gets spread out over a much greater range than debri before an explosion.

I literally canʻt believe you are trying to actually argue that when a bomb goes off, it DOESNʻT scatter debri all over the place.




so none of that, absolutely none of that has anything to do with our argument since our argument for comparing both techʻs arenʻt based on how much damage they did to x construct, but rather the AoE of their explosions which independant of their position in regards to a target.





Youʻre words:


Now tell me, if your argument doesnʻt presuppose that the doton that kitsuchi used on the juubi is comparable to the one that covers boss summons, how in the world does your argument make sense?



Hashirama was in SM when he created mokujin, therefore itʻs senpou mokujin. By your logic, Hashirama could have used a base mokujin to fight edo madara since he never says ʻsenpou mokujinʻ. Sure sennin mode drastically increases the power of a ninjutsu, but that doesnʻt mean it does that via increasing the SIZE of the ninjutsu. Narutoʻs senpou rasengan is the exact same size as his base rasengan. Narutoʻs senpou kagebunshins are the exact same size as his base kagebunshins. Madaraʻs senpou susanoo wasnʻt any larger than his normal V3 susanoo. So no, Hashirama used senpou mokujin since he created mokujin with senjutsu. Thereʻs no way you can argue that he didnʻt without utilizing a double standard.


See, this is the kind of dishonest stuff that tells me you donʻt have a legit argument. If you were actually trying to argue what is true, rather than just trying to relentlessly push your agenda, you wouldnʻt ignore the fact that 100% Kuramaʻs head is far above unstabalized PSʻs head, and thatʻs while Kurama is so hunched over that

Then thereʻs the fact that 100% Kuramaʻs arm is of comparable length to unstabalized PSʻs arm, and therefore unless PS and Kuramaʻs bodily proportion differ by magnitudes 100% Kurama would be on the same size level as PS.

So no, all the evidence puts 100% Kurama at the same general size level as PS, and therefore the mokujin that was used at VoTe is the same size as the one used on edo madara.


You didnʻt, you literally did not show that. You fallaciously presupposed that SM massively increases the size of ANY technique or construct when it doesnʻt. You also completely ignored how PS compares to 100% Kurama.

And then thereʻs the fact that once again, you fail to address how big shinsuusenjuu would be compared to PS or senpou mokujin and in turn show how gojoʻs explosion would compare to the explosion we saw at VoTe. Debate honestly, if you donʻt have a good argument, just drop it.




But you literally gave zero basis for making the claim that the circled portion is the result of a single punch. you also completely ignored my argument which showed that it could not have been the result of a single punch. So until youʻve addressed that argument youʻve conceded that point.





You implicitly claimed that they are equal or of the same level when you stated that kitsuchi has dotons that cover bijuu, bijuu are the size of mokujin/PSʻs feet and kitsuchi used a doton that was the size of the juubiʻs feet.

Talk about hypocrite, your telling me that I am arguing for the sake of arguing when we already came to a neutral agreement already of scaling Juubi. And yet you are still arguing with me on that point.

The scaling arugment isn't going to go anywhere as we aren't going to convince each other on whos scaling is right. I guess we dont need to waste time continuing this.
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
Make up do you really need me to browse back to that thread and post all that non-sense? Nearly die? L0l Hell stab is nothing but cutting/piercing force just like Ps blades. It's clear that Ps blades would obliterate him to absolute nothing. The fact that you even think he'll still have a body is just crazy. Ps blades cutting force can split mountains from miles away stop/
Go find the thread, and my post
and ill explain bcz i never exactly stated what ur saying here
 

Draegod

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
7,432
Reaction score
852
Variants of Susanoo[/B]
  • Ribcage Susanoo
  • V2 Skeletal Susanoo
  • V3 Susanoo
  • V3 legged susanoo
  • V4 Susanoo
  • EMS Sasukes PS
  • Madaras PS
  • Kakashis Rikudo PS
  • Sasukes Rinnegan PS

ATTACKS (not placed in order)
  • V2 Bees Lariat- V2 if he uses bone enhancement and full speed!
  • Suiton: Suidanha- nothing
  • Joki Boy- v1
  • Shurado Missiles- rib
  • Senpo Chou Oodama Rasengan- v2
  • Raikiri- v1
  • C4/C3- C3=v3
  • KN6 TBB- V3
  • Boss Sized ST - Village buster? V4 and anything under perfect is dealt with or removed
  • FRS/COFRS- anything under ps
  • 8-tails whirlwind- not an attacking move
  • Edo Hiruzens 5 elemental attack- v2
  • Full powered Jinton- sasuke Rikudo susanoo (kakashis as well) survives, everything else loses
  • Naruto and Bees Full Powered TBB- Rikudo chakra Susanoo's Survive
  • Juubitos Quad TBB- nothing lives
  • Chojo Kobetsu- PS and up lives for sure
  • BDRS- ?
  • Night Moth- Nothing survives
  • Evening elephant- Rikudo chakra susanoos survives
  • V1 Juubis Beam- PS and up
  • GKF- Kisames move? if so technically nothing survives.
  • One Fingered Hell Stab- PS and up
  • Kaguyas Bone- nothing survives
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
ATTACKS (not placed in order)
[*]Boss Sized ST - Village buster? V4 and anything under perfect is dealt with or removed
No,
Village buster ST = CST
IMO, boss sized ST can bust V3 at most,

[*]Full powered Jinton- sasuke Rikudo susanoo (kakashis as well) survives, everything else loses
Jinton doesnt have enough energy output to bust any PS,
while it does atomise its target, if the target is more than durable enough than jinton is not atomising it,
which is part of the reason why onoki stopped his jinton when madara brought out his PS

[*]Chojo Kobetsu- PS and up lives for sure
, despite ,
madaras and ems sasukes PS get wrecked, by it

[*]BDRS- ?
Bijuu Dama Rasen Shuriken

[*]GKF- Kisames move? if so technically nothing survives.
Gojo Kibaku Fuda,
Tobiramas tandem explosive tags,
 
Last edited:

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
Talk about hypocrite, your telling me that I am arguing for the sake of arguing when we already came to a neutral agreement already of scaling Juubi. And yet you are still arguing with me on that point.
except Iʻm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, Iʻm arguing to actually prove a point and that point is that you not only lied about your analysis of kitsuchiʻs dotons, but youʻre not trying to analyze this argument objectively which is why you do so.

The scaling arugment isn't going to go anywhere as we aren't going to convince each other on whos scaling is right. I guess we dont need to waste time continuing this.
I donʻt think itʻs a waste of time at all. I think you simply canʻt generate a logically coherent response to my arguments, youʻd be forced to just reassert defeated points or just make busy work for me to refute.

What I do believe is a waste of time is trying to get you to admit that you are wrong since regardless of whatever evidence I show, youʻre not going to change your stance. But as far as convincing each other? Iʻm pretty sure Iʻve convinced you that my scaling is correct, evidence is what youʻve been forced to argue and ignore, youʻll just never outright admit it or change the agenda ridden stance that youʻre trying so hard to push.

And this is where your wrong you claim that Danzo FRS > Danzo slicing Fuuton when they work in different ways. Danzo Fuuton slices thats it FRS cutting force hasn't been proven to be stronger than Danzo Fuuton nor has it's Blunt force been proven to obliterate a complete V4 Susanoo. Like i said before Nukite greatest feat is piercing 3rd Raikage it needs more impressive feats than that to convince me in can chop a v4 Susanoo to pieces.

Narutoʻs SM FRS is on a completely different level of power than danzouʻs slicing fuuton. If you want to argue that Danzouʻs slicing fuutonʻs mechanics would allow it to bust something that FRS canʻt, the burden of proof is completely on you to show that, else stronger attack = more damage.

next, working in different ways tells us nothing, it could be that danzouʻs fuutonʻs mechanics are better for inflicting damage on susanoo yet at the same time it could be that FRSʻs mechanics are better for inflicting damage on susanoo which means FRS not only gets scaled up from danzouʻs fuuton, but damages susanoo even more after the scaling is done.

FRS not ʻproving itselfʻ to bust a V4 tells us nothing, as its neither positive evidence for FRS > V4 susanoo or V4 susanoo > FRS. However, thereʻs obviously an argument for why things like COFRS > V4 susanoo. And now I ask, why does that argument have to PROVE itself true? Why does the person who asserts that FRS > V4 susanoo have to PROVE their stance to be true while the person who asserts that V4 susanoo > FRS doesnʻt? Thatʻs obviously a double standard. If you want to assert V4 susanoo withstands FRS, then you have just as much of a burden of proof as the guy who says it doesnʻt.

Why does piercing through Sandaime raikage w/ RnY up not allow the nukite to pierce a V4 susanoo? What has a V4 susanoo gone up against thatʻs above Sandaimeʻs nukite? If you believe that the nukite doesnʻt pierce V4 susanoo, then surely you have some kind of evidence that warrants that belief right? Well where is it, and how does it stack up against the alternative argument?

Finally, the object is obviously not to ʻconvinceʻ you since the guy who wants konohomaru to beat madara will never admit that the argument for madara > konohomaru is ʻconvincingʻ. Lay your reasoning out on the table for your beliefs and see how much assumptions and reaches you have to make vs the other guy. Whoʻs argument requires more of the benefit of the doubt, whoʻs argument is more probably true? Thatʻs the goal, to expose the assumptions and show whoʻs argument is more plausible or not, not to convince someone who is motivated to not be convinced for X, Y and Z reason.
 
Last edited:

Brother Numpsay

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
334
except Iʻm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, Iʻm arguing to actually prove a point and that point is that you not only lied about your analysis of kitsuchiʻs dotons, but youʻre not trying to analyze this argument objectively which is why you do so.


I donʻt think itʻs a waste of time at all. I think you simply canʻt generate a logically coherent response to my arguments, youʻd be forced to just reassert defeated points or just make busy work for me to refute.

What I do believe is a waste of time is trying to get you to admit that you are wrong since regardless of whatever evidence I show, youʻre not going to change your stance. But as far as convincing each other? Iʻm pretty sure Iʻve convinced you that my scaling is correct, evidence is what youʻve been forced to argue and ignore, youʻll just never outright admit it or change the agenda ridden stance that youʻre trying so hard to push.

You really love provoking people its hilarious. egotistical, *******.

You must be registered for see images
 

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
You really love provoking people its hilarious. egotistical, *******.

You must be registered for see images
If you think Iʻm egotistical then you definitely donʻt understand my motivation for making my arguments. I donʻt brag about being smarter than you, I donʻt brag about being a better debater than you, the only thing I assert is that my argument is > your arguments in that itʻs more plausible, and thatʻs because I believe based on the evidence presented that the stance that I am arguing for is compellingly true. So true, that youʻd have to be motivated by clear biased in order to not at the very least agree that itʻs the most plausible stance. The truth of the stance has nothing to do with my intelligence, ability to debate, how ʻgoodʻ or ʻbadʻ I am, none of that, itʻs objective meaning itʻs true regardless of whether people are even there to argue for it or believe it.

I donʻt even like provoking people either, itʻs only when people fail to respond to my points that I have to provoke them in order to generate some kind of response to said points. Other than that, if you feel provoked when I make true statements, then itʻs probably because the truth isnʻt easy for you to swallow and is not what you want it to be.
 

Brother Numpsay

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
334
I donʻt even like provoking people either, itʻs only when people fail to respond to my points that I have to provoke them in order to generate some kind of response to said points. Other than that, if you feel provoked when I make true statements, then itʻs probably because the truth isnʻt easy for you to swallow and is not what you want it to be.

Except you are basing your claims as absolute, as you are telling me right now. "that your truth" is making me rustle. Which alone contradicts everything you are even saying about being provocative and egotistical . There was a reason why I stop as even if I continue to prove my points, you won't agree to them because your interpretation says something else. Therefore the conflicting of scans interpretation and my points getting across wasn't going to go any where.
 

lanakui8

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
2,984
Reaction score
205
Except you are basing your claims as absolute, as you are telling me right now. "that your truth" is making me rustle. Which alone contradicts everything you are even saying about being provocative and egotistical . There was a reason why I stop as even if I continue to prove my points, you won't agree to them because your interpretation says something else. Therefore the conflicting of scans interpretation and my points getting across wasn't going to go any where.

Iʻm not basing my claims as absolute, I literally stated a bunch of times that my arguments are more plausible than not or yours. When I talk about objective truth or the pursuit of it, Iʻm talking about whether the goal of our arguments is to ascertain it or if the goal of our arguments are simply to push whatever thing we WANT to believe is true. Itʻs not just my truth, if my arguments are far more plausible then yours them my arguments are probably true while yours are probably not.

And this isnʻt a matter of opinion, our arguments show it. Youʻve had to say things like "explosions donʻt scatter debri", youʻve circled arbitrary portions of a scan without any basis claiming that thatʻs the explosion caused by a shinsuusenjuu punch, youʻve dishonestly evaluated 100% Kurama vs unstabalized PSʻs size, youʻve presupposed something we know isnʻt true: that senjutsu makes every technique larger, and then after youʻve generated your fallacious argument about how VoTe mokujin is smaller than the one used against edo madara, you make no attempt to show HOW MUCH bigger the senjutsu one was, nor do you make any attempt to show how big shinsuusenjuu or the explosion at VoTe is.

I make my point once again: if your goal is to actually argue objective about what is objectively true, then you address ALL the arguments and show why the scaling supports yours and you donʻt pull blatantly false stuff like that.
 

Brother Numpsay

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
334
Itʻs not just my truth, if my arguments are far more plausible then yours them my arguments are probably true while yours are probably not.

And who gives that conclusion that your arguments were more plausible then mine? Your main premise were to show that SS punches made more "explosive" via impact effect, then what Gojo was shown to produce.

Your two premise where:

1. The punches start off higher impact then Gojo explosion, shown when mash against susanoo/kyuubi.

2. The final clash between Madara and Hashirama, made a explosion so big that it dwarfs SS itself. Hashirama feat shares half of the impact.

My premise try to reason that Gojo single explosion should be equal SS single punch. And yet your premise is actually making SS punches feat look weaker then my premise try to reason with, as you said in premise 1)punchesstart off higher impact then Gojo explosion.


Meaning it took the work of more then 1 punch to create an impact that was greater then Gojo.

While premise 2 only shows that even with your interpretation of the final impact of Madara and Hashirama, you have to divide impact they made together, which loses its portion, according to your argument.

And this isnʻt a matter of opinion, our arguments show it. Youʻve had to say things like "explosions donʻt scatter debri",

No I didn't this what I said:

Pieces normally stay around the range of....

Which never denied debris not being scatter. In fact I literally circled a portion of debris having it own panel time to show it being scattered. So how am I denying such a claim?

You must be registered for see images


youʻve circled arbitrary portions of a scan without any basis claiming that thatʻs the explosion caused by a shinsuusenjuu punch,

Are you talking about this?

You must be registered for see images


If you are then in what basis do you think this explosion was caused by?

youʻve dishonestly evaluated 100% Kurama vs unstabalized PSʻs size,

Being dishonest how? I brought proof that Edo Madara's PS was larger then the time he was using PS with Kurama. Anyone can look that the scan at VOTE fight and not say unstabalized wasn't = to Kurama here, which I didn't say.

youʻve presupposed something we know isnʻt true: that senjutsu makes every technique larger,

Except I never made that claim as automatic exceed increase Otherwise I would have never made the claim that "mokujin used twice in VOTE shouldn't have been the same size after Hashirama went to SM. This is one of the reason I didn't want to waste time arguing with you as you were jumping to conclusions.

and then after youʻve generated your fallacious argument about how VoTe mokujin is smaller than the one used against edo madara, you make no attempt to show HOW MUCH bigger the senjutsu one was, nor do you make any attempt to show how big shinsuusenjuu or the explosion at VoTe is.

Why would I need to go the extra mile to break it down to you, when you can use common sense in that case. When all I need to do is circle the legs to show the difference, which I did. Mokujin had no legs in VOTE and was coming straight from the source of Hashirama Jukai. Mokujin end up = with unstabilize PS in size. Now we have complete PS against a Mokujin that carries legs to match each other once again. We know PS towers base mokuton[ ]. While Senpou size Mokuton also towers his own base mokuton too. Therefore PS, Senpou size Mokuton like Mokujin (dont confuse it was being automatic) use in their Edo fight, are the same size to SS (excluding SS backpack hands).

I make my point once again: if your goal is to actually argue objective about what is objectively true, then you address ALL the arguments and show why the scaling supports yours and you donʻt pull blatantly false stuff like that.
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319

Here is my opinion on this matterl

Whats the strongest variant of susanoo the following attacks can destroy???
  • V2 Bees Lariat

  • Destroys Ribcage, and damages V2
    [*]Suiton: Suidanha
    Damages Ribcage, and repeated strikes destroy it
    [*]Joki Boy
    Destroys Ribcage, over a prolonged run can even harm V2
    [*]Shurado Missiles
    Destroy Ribcage
    [*]Senpo Chou Oodama Rasengan
    ,
    the fact that , means that ribcage clearly wasnt enough, COR most likely destroys V2
    [*]Raikiri
    Damages Ribcage, or most likely can destroy it
    C3 busts V3 legless susanoo,and can damage V4
    [*]KN6 TBB
    Its still comparable to Hirudora, which destroyed V3,
    so KN6 TBB will most likely bust V3
    [*]Boss Sized ST
    It one-shotted 3 gama toads, and can most likely destroy V2 susanoo at the very least,
    V3 is also possible seeing how the susanoo would get blown away and the effect of gravity on the heavier susanoo would be vast therefore damaging or destroying V3 legless as well
    [*]FRS/COFRS
    FRS busts V3 just how AT did in canon,
    COFRS busts V4 and any susanoo below PS
    [*]8-tails whirlwind
    Can bust ribcage
    [*]Edo Hiruzens 5 elemental attack
    Can bust ribcage at the very least
    V2 susanoo is also plausible seeing how large the scale was of his elemental attacks
    [*]Full powered Jinton
    Can bust any susanoo below PS,
    PS is not getting destroyed since jinton lacks the energy output to atomise it,
    [*]Naruto and Bees Full Powered TBB
    Any susanoo below Rikuodo powered PS, would get busted
    [*]Juubitos Quad TBB
    BUsts any susanoo with ease
    [*]Chojo Kobetsu
    BUsts all PS bar rikudo powered, and Kakashis PS is also debatable
    BUsts all susanoo bar Sasukes RInnegan powered PS
    [*]Night Moth
    Busts all susanoo bar rikudo powrered PS, Kakashis PS is debatable
    [*]Evening elephant
    Busts all susanoo bar Rikudo powered PS
    [*]V1 Juubis Beam
    PS and above tanks it
    Busts V3 legged susanoo, and can damage V4
    [*]One Fingered Hell Stab
    Destroys V4 susanoo, PS and above tank it with ease
    [*]Kaguyas Bone
Destroys all susanoo


 

lucario14

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
2,296
Reaction score
290


FRS busts V3 just how AT did in canon,
COFRS busts V4 and any susanoo below PS
I don't see how cofrs can destroy . Also not sure if canon but v2 susanoo can tank frs

You must be registered for see images
I agree with everything else though.
 

NSUNSR

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
1,761
Reaction score
112
I don't see how cofrs can destroy . Also not sure if canon but v2 susanoo can tank frs

You must be registered for see images
I agree with everything else though.
This Susanoo was still a form of PS actually. V2 Susanoo has no chamce against FRS and the gif you showed is probably just a fan animation.
 

ARGUS

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
6,324
Reaction score
319
I don't see how cofrs can destroy . Also not sure if canon but v2 susanoo can tank frs

You must be registered for see images
I agree with everything else though.

yeah pretty much what NSUNSR said,
the susanoo that tanked the TBB was
and i agree with unstabilised PS tanking COFRS, but V4 gets destroyed

and the GIF is not valid, V2 susano is never tanking FRS, when Hirudora (which is comparable to FRS) busted FRS, and Danzos fuuton blew a hole in V3
 

lucario14

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
2,296
Reaction score
290
This Susanoo was still a form of PS actually. V2 Susanoo has no chamce against FRS and the gif you showed is probably just a fan animation.


yeah pretty much what NSUNSR said,
the susanoo that tanked the TBB was
and i agree with unstabilised PS tanking COFRS, but V4 gets destroyed

and the GIF is not valid, V2 susano is never tanking FRS, when Hirudora (which is comparable to FRS) busted FRS, and Danzos fuuton blew a hole in V3
Ok but isn't the unstable version of PS the same as V4 susanoo, just without legs? Honestly what's the difference between and my first scan of madara's susanoo apart from the size difference?
 

KidGamer65

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
38,776
Reaction score
2,272
Ok but isn't the unstable version of PS the same as V4 susanoo, just without legs? Honestly what's the difference between and my first scan of madara's susanoo apart from the size difference?

There is no difference. Same level and everything, but Sasuke hasn't shown his with a lower body yet.
 
Top