Naruto's Idealism or Sasuke's Realist views:Which is more suited for change in NV?

[Shadow Phantasm]

By "see problem, burn problem", and by ruling with an iron fist, right? Yeah, that's not gonna solve sh*t.

And you know this how?Sasuke's plan of getting rid of everything that caused the world to plunge into countless conflict is a sound one.

 

[Raekwon26]

"End cycle of hatred" *sigh*

Just hearing people say that makes me chuckle. :yeah:

 

[Wes Sine]

Itachi's .

Get a life...

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

Easier said than done,human nature won't go away despite Naruto's efforts to get people to accept peace.People will always desire something and that desire can lead to greed,greed leads to envy,and then conflict breaks out.

the manga clearly disagrees with you, if oonoki who is several decades old and who had been groomed by muu to be an underhanded bastard can change, then people can change

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[Wolfus]

Easier said than done,human nature won't go away despite Naruto's efforts to get people to accept peace.People will always desire something and that desire can lead to greed,greed leads to envy,and then conflict breaks out.

Yeah. that's true. But you're talking about NV, not the real world, right? And in NV, there is talk no jutsu, and we know what that's capable of.

Naruto's ideology would bring true peace. However, the human nature wouldn't allow it to be applied in the real world. But in NV, it works, as even mass murderers join naruto's size after a conversation.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

"End cycle of hatred" *sigh*

Just hearing people say that makes me chuckle. :yeah:

It's a noble goal,too bad that pesky thing called human nature makes it all but impossible to achieve.

 

[Wolfus]

And you know this how?Sasuke's plan of getting rid of everything that caused the world to plunge into countless conflict is a sound one.

Simply: He doesn't care about other people's opinions; he disrespects people without power; he wants his ideas to be implanted no matter if the rest of the population wants it or not.

Hum, sounds like a dictatorship to me.

 

[BlacLord™]

the manga clearly disagrees with you, if oonoki who is several decades old and who had been groomed by muu to be an underhanded bastard can change, then people can change

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Onoki isn't everyone. Either in Naruto's time or after his death, people who want power will arise and won't relent.

Human nature is as human nature does.

 

[Raekwon26]

Simply: He doesn't care about other people's opinions; he disrespects people without power; he wants his ideas to be implanted no matter if the rest of the population wants it or not.

Hum, sounds like a dictatorship to me.

You know, you could say the EXACT same is relevant with Naruto.......

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

the manga clearly disagrees with you, if oonoki who is several decades old and who had been groomed by muu to be an underhanded bastard can change, then people can change

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You're obviously not looking at the long term picture,Naruto's plan might succeed now but what happens centuries after he's gone or even before then?

What if people get tired of peace and start fighting again?

 

[ShiroT]

False,there are always alternatives to achieve the same result.Like I said in the OP Naruto's plan would have to rely on humanity not f*cking up long after he's gone.Sasuke's is a more slow form of change that will likely result in peace happening overtime.

to change the system you have to change the people and sasuke doesnt care about people so hows it going to work out?

 

[ShiroT]

You're obviously not looking at the long term picture,Naruto's plan might succeed now but what happens centuries after he's gone or even before then?What if people got tired of peace and start fighting again?

what happens when people get fed up with sasuke being a dictator?

 

[Hiraishin Stage 3]

Onoki isn't everyone.

He was worse than almost everyone before having been brought up by muu and if he can change so can everyone else

Either in Naruto's time or after his death, people who want power will arise and won't relent.

Human nature is as human nature does.

There will be others to carry on his legacy, like how the sage chose his successor, what, you thought after naruto dies everyone will forget about him and what he fought for

lawl

 

[-Spoiler-]

What realist views? I don't see how sociopath views that comes from a mentally unstable person can be called "realistic". The "see problem, burn problem" ideology isn't realism, son.

Want a realist view? Hashirama's ideal is realist. "To protect somethings, sometimes another must be sacrificed. Be it a close friend, a relative, or even your own child". He knew he had to kill madara, and he did it, to protect the "greater good".

This so much

 

[Raekwon26]

He was worse than almost everyone before having been brought up by muu and if he can change so can everyone else



There will others to carry on his legacy, like sage chose his successor, what you thought after naruto dies everyone will forget about him and what he fought for

lawl

Yes, because they sure followed Hashirama's ideals and beliefs.................

 

[bencoby]

You're obviously not looking at the long term picture,Naruto's plan might succeed now but what happens centuries after he's gone or even before then?

What if people get tired of peace and start fighting again?

Dude, that's one of the absurd comments i have heard in a long time. HOW CAN PEOPLE GET TIRED OF PEACE?

 

[Wolfus]

You know, you could say the EXACT same is relevant with Naruto.......

Humm, I don't know. Naruto was saving and caring about his friends despite the fact they're fodders now? Check. Naruto accepts that "the one who is acknowledged by everyone will become hokage"? , meaning that he cares about the others? Check.

I don't see how that's the same

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

what happens when people get fed up with sasuke being a dictator?

How do you know Sasuke will be a dictator?He hasn't shown any signs of one.

 

[ShiroT]

I've decided to make this thread in order to discuss something that I found interesting.Idealism clashing with being a realist in NV.The two embodiments of these philosophies are Sasuke and Naruto.

First I'll highlight the differences between Naruto's idealistic philosophy and Sasuke's realist views.

Naruto wants everyone to work together by ending the chain of hatred and achieving a level of understanding.This means one has to expect humans to never want anything:no power,no wealth,no land etc;.Otherwise some time down the line conflict will break out again.In some ways Naruto's plan for peace will likely fall apart after he's gone.

However it is a admirable attitude to have even if a little naïve to expect people to change their nature just like that.

Now onto Sasuke's views:

He wants to change the system from the inside,remove all the bad and achieving peace in a realist sort of way.He doesn't believe in changing people's hearts because he doesn't care what they think,Sasuke wants to do what he think is right and prevent more trageties like what happened to his brother and clan from happening again.

Sasuke's methods might be a problem for some but he does have a viable alternative should Naruto's plan fail to work.

So which is better?

and your wrong about that. naruto has changed MANY people without destroying social class, taking away property etc.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Dude, that's one of the absurd comments i have heard in a long time. HOW CAN PEOPLE GET TIRED OF PEACE?

Look up something called human nature before calling my point absurd.

Because deep down people have violent instincts,you can't get rid of something that's hard wired into every single person alive.