Itachi Uchiha vs. Minato Namikaze

[Valhorus]

it's manga fact that tsukuyomi cannot be broken by anyone else but an MS user. he's not breaking it get over it :ilu:

tsukuyomi is useless on a clone ya, but he's not getting fooled by it. he was as smart as a kage at age 7.

tsukuyomi doesn't require a build-up of chakra so sensing it is useless. even if it does it's too fast for a non- precog user to predict its build-up.

fighting with his eyes closed is gonna be worse to him because then he won't know when he's under Ephemeral or not. he needs eye-sight to figure out that he's under it and then break it.

Just like Kakashi didn't fooled Itachi with a clone

 

[bobtheboober]

He already fell for Kakashi's shadow clone...

kakashi was fighting a clone possessing only 30 percent! of itachi's chakra, and he still wasnt trying! he was only there to talk to naruto, so it doesnt count!

 

[Apêx1]

@thestupidgirl don't quote me again. You risk to bring me on your own level of stupidity

I don't remember. But like i've said to Strict once again i'm not asking if he can break the genjutsu, but escape it. What you described is the process to break the genjutsu that i know myself. Tsukuyomi can only be broken by skilled Uchihas because of the strength of the genjutsu

But what i'm asking is if Minato can escape it without actually breaking it. Itachi only said you can't break his illusion. By escaping what i mean is this. Itachi's tsukuyomi takes control of the chakra of the opponent located in his head, but if Minato changes his chakra to match someone else(Itachi's for example), it would not be the same chakra controlled by Itachi anymore, giving him then a sort of escape

Minato and Naruto are the only one so far who have been stated to be capable to change chakra types, so Itachi not making exceptions on his statements is a moot point considering he most likely didn't even know it was possible

Again, it isn't genjutsu, DB clearly labels it as a ninjutsu. There's more to it than what we understand, but either way by the time Minato has 'changed' his chakra at the very least 2 seconds would have passed in the real world, more than enough for Itachi to have passed by 2 days of torture. Either way, nothing even implies that the genjutsu is manipulating that specific chakra type. It is simply manipulating chakra flow in the brain, it isn't aimed at a specific chakra signature, changing it should have no effect given that the chakra is still being manipulated-- as it isn't chakra signature specific.

 

[Demonic.]

kakashi was fighting a clone possessing only 30 percent! of itachi's chakra, and he still wasnt trying! he was only there to talk to naruto, so it doesnt count!

Just because it was 30% chakra doesn't mean it wasn't Itachi lol he had the sharingan and everything. He just couldn't last as long in battle because his chakra was 30%. He still fell for the shadow clone, it has nothing to do with that because the sharingan can't distinguish shadow clones. He wasn't there to talk to Naruto. You're confusing that with another time. He was there to fight.

 

[bobtheboober]

Just because it was 30% chakra doesn't mean it wasn't Itachi lol he had the sharingan and everything. He just couldn't last as long in battle because his chakra was 30%. He still fell for the shadow clone, it has nothing to do with that because the sharingan can't distinguish shadow clones. He wasn't there to talk to Naruto. You're confusing that with another time. He was there to fight.

it actually wasnt itachi though. he wasnt trying and this is fact. he was there to talk to naruto not analyze the fight to win. he wasnt there to fight.

 

[Bogard]

Again, it isn't genjutsu, DB clearly labels it as a ninjutsu. There's more to it than what we understand, but either way by the time Minato has 'changed' his chakra at the very least 2 seconds would have passed in the real world, more than enough for Itachi to have passed by 2 days of torture. Either way, nothing even implies that the genjutsu is manipulating that specific chakra type. It is simply manipulating chakra flow in the brain, it isn't aimed at a specific chakra signature, changing it should have no effect given that the chakra is still being manipulated-- as it isn't chakra signature specific.

Which makes no sense. Either you're misunderstanding the description of the databook(kekkei genkei can possibly be for Sharingan), or they made an error during the translation of said databook since it's painful obvious Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu. And once again, like i've said, the 2 seconds thing is only for people outside the world. For the person inside the world, it last 72h

 

[Lana Del Taka]

Itachi neg diffs.

 

[Demonic.]

it actually wasnt itachi though. he wasnt trying and this is fact. he was there to talk to naruto not analyze the fight to win. he wasnt there to fight.

If you read the chapter again after they were defeated Kisame stated it's a good jutsu because it replicates their bodies, but the 30% chakra was too low. It was them. Itachi didn't even talk to Naruto that time like at all, he places him in a Genjutsu and has Kakashi, Sakura, Sasuke, and Gara heads popping out of his body to torment him. You're confusing it with the Search for Sasuke Arc when Itachi finds him and tells him he's only there to talk.

 

[bobtheboober]

If you read the chapter again after they were defeated Kisame stated it's a good jutsu because it replicates their bodies, but the 30% chakra was too low. It was them. Itachi didn't even talk to Naruto that time like at all, he places him in a Genjutsu and has Kakashi, Sakura, Sasuke, and Gara heads popping out of his body to torment him. You're confusing it with the Search for Sasuke Arc when Itachi finds him and tells him he's only there to talk.

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wrong. it wasnt itachi. it was yuura.

 

[bobtheboober]

Which makes no sense. Either you're misunderstanding the description of the databook(kekkei genkei can possibly be for Sharingan), or they made an error during the translation of said databook since it's painful obvious Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu. And once again, like i've said, the 2 seconds thing is only for people outside the world. For the person inside the world, it last 72h

the problem is that in reality its only for a single second, so escaping it is useless. once a second passed a second passes. besides, it's already been said that only an ms eye can escape it. stop grasping at straws

 

[Demonic.]

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wrong. it wasnt itachi. it was yuura.

I know. But that Jutsu cast. Itachi and Kisame were meditating. During that, they were controlling the bodies like if it was there. After Naruto takes down Itachi with the giant Rasengan Itachi smiles (because he was glad to see him get stronger. Why would Yura smile?) then he opens his eyes in his meditating position. Kisame asks him are you done too? And Itachi says yes I ran out of chakra. It was them.

 

[Apêx1]

Which makes no sense. Either you're misunderstanding the description of the databook(kekkei genkei can possibly be for Sharingan), or they made an error during the translation of said databook since it's painful obvious Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu. And once again, like i've said, the 2 seconds thing is only for people outside the world. For the person inside the world, it last 72h

No, you seem to be trying to bend Kishi's words towards your argument. Look up any scanalation or translation that is accepted, it is always labelled as a ninjutsu. Say what you want to say, it won't change the fact that Kishi is the one who knows the abilities he is implementing in his own manga. It is a ninjutsu which administers some form of relationship with a genjutsu. Either way, there's a clear difference in the fact that chakra disruption doesn't break out of it nor does it escape it, as they are both essentially the same thing. This also allows us to insinuate that changing your chakra signature will have no effect on it as it's never been implied to be able to accomplish such. And you seem to be misunderstanding again, Minato's real life body has to change its chakra signature, not the one in the dream world. Hence his real body has 2 seconds to do so, although it's never even been hinted at that the person that's fallen victim to the tsukiyomi can have any effect on his body outside the dream world.

 

[Ababeel]

Stop right there.

Itachi never admitted inferiority to Obito, not once. Delude yourself further if you seek to advance your level of retardation to a new level. He said he needed EMS to surpass Madara. He thought Obito was Madara, yes, but he contributed EVERYTHING Madara has ever accomplished to Obito. Being equal to Hashirama Senju (renowned as the God of Shinobi), leader of the Uchiha, and being the first one ever to activate the MS Sharingan and knowing all of its secrets as well as counting Kamui to Madara's arsenal. In other words, he combined Obito and Madara into a single person and said that that was what he would surpass with the EMS.

Itachi isn't weaker than Jiraiya. Itachi knew he was superior. Kisame was confused as to why he was retreating from J-man while having full knowledge on his reputation. He tried to get Kisame to retreat from Kakashi, then Gai, then J-man, etc; he wasn't there to kill; he was there to avoid killing andremind Danzo of his presence in Konoha in order to protect Sasuke. This is widely known and, in all honesty, if this scan doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

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Your level of Minato fanboyism is utterly disgusting, as are you.

Itachi fodderstomps Minato.

- and here we start with itachi's fanboys drama again. Lol
you said it yourself, he believe that obito is madara, and therefore he is talking about that masked man's power, which is
obito. Stop being delusional.

- No, that your blind fanboysim again, itachi knows that he is inferior. Period.

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.narutoforums.com/picture.php?albumid=6828&pictureid=75026

Your level of Minato fanboyism is utterly disgusting, as are you.

take the guy who's riding itachi's Diseased D 24/7. I am surprise you haven't got AIDS yet. :dunno:

but, anyway, you itachi's fans are all the same no matter what, what can I expect really. Lol
stay delusional as you have always been. :erm:

 

[Demonic.]

No, you seem to be trying to bend Kishi's words towards your argument. Look up any scanalation or translation that is accepted, it is always labelled as a ninjutsu. Say what you want to say, it won't change the fact that Kishi is the one who knows the abilities he is implementing in his own manga. It is a ninjutsu which administers some form of relationship with a genjutsu. Either way, there's a clear difference in the fact that chakra disruption doesn't break out of it nor does it escape it, as they are both essentially the same thing. This also allows us to insinuate that changing your chakra signature will have no effect on it as it's never been implied to be able to accomplish such. And you seem to be misunderstanding again, Minato's real life body has to change its chakra signature, not the one in the dream world. Hence his real body has 2 seconds to do so, although it's never even been hinted at that the person that's fallen victim to the tsukiyomi can have any effect on his body outside the dream world.

But Zetsu said Itachi's left eye possesses the most powerful visual Genjutsu, then his right eye possess the most power ninjutsu Amaterasu. I might've gotten the eyes mixed up.

 

[Bogard]

No, you seem to be trying to bend Kishi's words towards your argument. Look up any scanalation or translation that is accepted, it is always labelled as a ninjutsu. Say what you want to say, it won't change the fact that Kishi is the one who knows the abilities he is implementing in his own manga. It is a ninjutsu which administers some form of relationship with a genjutsu. Either way, there's a clear difference in the fact that chakra disruption doesn't break out of it nor does it escape it, as they are both essentially the same thing. This also allows us to insinuate that changing your chakra signature will have no effect on it as it's never been implied to be able to accomplish such. And you seem to be misunderstanding again, Minato's real life body has to change its chakra signature, not the one in the dream world. Hence his real body has 2 seconds to do so, although it's never even been hinted at that the person that's fallen victim to the tsukiyomi can have any effect on his body outside the dream world.

Can't believe i'm really arguing whether Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu or not when it's been clearly presented by Itachi himself to be one

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So really you're the one trying to bend the manga towards your argument considering it's painful obvious tsukuyomi is a genjutsu

And no, what is difficult in breaking tsukuyomi is to stop the chakra and form a stronger one during the process. The Tsukuyomi genjutsu is too strong that it doesn't allow such a manoeuver.

However, i don't see any reason why the chakra type can't be changed considering you can use jutsus even when you're inside a genjutsu

 

[Apêx1]

But Zetsu said Itachi's left eye possesses the most powerful visual Genjutsu, then his right eye possess the most power ninjutsu Amaterasu. I might've gotten the eyes mixed up.

Zetsu said Itachi was invincible too. Nevertheless, I said it's a form of ninjutsu which is affiliated with genjutsu (just my take on it though).

 

[bobtheboober]

Zetsu said Itachi was invincible too. Nevertheless, I said it's a form of ninjutsu which is affiliated with genjutsu (just my take on it though).

jiraiya said a genjutsu is ninjutsu. i remember this. just sounds weird to me but you're right.

 

[Demonic.]

jiraiya said a genjutsu is ninjutsu. i remember this. just sounds weird to me but you're right.

Lord Pervy sage wasn't that smart at logic.

 

[Apêx1]

Can't believe i'm really arguing whether Tsukuyomi is a genjutsu or not when it's been clearly presented by Itachi himself to be one

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So really you're the one trying to bend the manga towards your argument considering it's painful obvious tsukuyomi is a genjutsu

And no, what is difficult in breaking tsukuyomi is to stop the chakra and form a stronger one during the process. The Tsukuyomi genjutsu is too strong that it doesn't allow such a manoeuver.

However, i don't see any reason why the chakra type can't be changed considering you can use jutsus even when you're inside a genjutsu

Didn't say it wasn't genjutsu as a whole, I said it's a genjutsu which is affiliated with ninjutsu, going by the DB. Either way, it doesn't change much since Minato cannot leave the Tsukiyomi.

That's an assumption. Itachi explicitly stated it cannot be broken by anyone without bloodline limit and the DB reinforced this. Are you trying to bend the manga? Chakra strength doesn't matter, it's not broken out of.

Umm.. What? I said he has to change his chakra in the real world. Either way, I don't see why I am debating this with you. You say I am bending the manga, when you yourself, a knowledgeable Minato fan, are making it seem as if Minato can change his chakra to match Itachi's. As you can see

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, Minato can transfer his chakra to anyone through Naruto... He himself can only do it to Naruto and Kushina (people close to him) when left alone without the aid of Naruto's proficient skills in this technique. Never really understood what you were getting at, but I won't have to given this nullifies your argument.

 

[Bogard]

Didn't say it wasn't genjutsu as a whole, I said it's a genjutsu which is affiliated with ninjutsu, going by the DB. Either way, it doesn't change much since Minato cannot leave the Tsukiyomi.

That's an assumption. Itachi explicitly stated it cannot be broken by anyone without bloodline limit and the DB reinforced this. Are you trying to bend the manga? Chakra strength doesn't matter, it's not broken out of.

Umm.. What? I said he has to change his chakra in the real world. Either way, I don't see why I am debating this with you. You say I am bending the manga, when you yourself, a knowledgeable Minato fan, are making it seem as if Minato can change his chakra to match Itachi's. As you can see

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, Minato can transfer his chakra to anyone through Naruto... He himself can only do it to Naruto and Kushina (people close to him) when left alone without the aid of Naruto's proficient skills in this technique. Never really understood what you were getting at, but I won't have to given this nullifies your argument.

More like you are understanding my point but trying to deny it because you want to stay in the myth that tsukuyomi is invincible. Proof of it is that you now try to twist the manga by saying Minato can't change his chakra like Naruto

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Either way the way it goes i prefer stopping here. I'm not going to repeat myself concerning the break-escape thing. I said what i wanted to. I don't think you'll ever acknowledge what i'm saying, so you can believe what you want