Tupac was definitely not the best.

[NarutoB]

Omgggg I can gush about Earl all day. I'm his favorite fan btw he luvs meh

But in all seriousness, he's my favorite rapper but I don't be out here tryna compare him to this person and that person cuz it don't matter. Ppl have opinions

I try not to bring him up during discussions like this because I know I'm going to be biased as hell lol

 

[Da Best Ever]

Yeah that's why I had to go back and listen to Pac. I heard too much hype and when I listened, it's not like I didn't like it, I just didn't see the hype others saw. I listened to two albums back to back and just wasn't super impressed (Had several songs I really like though). But with people like Tribe Called Quest, Biggie, Nas, Korrupt, etc, I just felt like Pac wasn't there for me like I liked these guys. But Pac is still better than most rappers today.

Btw, I still jam Couch with Earl and Tyler, my favorite flow by Earl in his music career.

As far as you going back to listen to Pac after you heard all the hype, you didn't allow yourself to enjoy the music or accept it for what it was because of two reasons.

1. In that time the lyrics meant more since no rapper today raps the same as him and times were harsher then.

2. You listened to Pac after you heard all the hype so you already predetermined and limited yourself to not liking him as much as those who hype him up.

 

[Chibiusa]

I hate to be the snob but honestly everyone that's posted here so far with exception of NarutoB really has no idea wtf they are talking about when it comes to hip hop, even the OP's argument was weak. If you want to see where Tupac Lyrically stands amongst a small sample of other rappers, which is actually incomplete in terms of hip hop history's full roster of all time MC's, check this page.

You must be registered for see links

And broaden your horizons, Nas, Biggie, Kendrick Lamar, eminem, j cole are bland / generic examples. The underground has a tremendous amount of MC's that shit on Pac lyrically. If you want to know any reccommendations for great underground albums or groups just ask me, I know a lot about hip hop.

Lol I love how you just waltzed in here and starting saying ppl are wrong for having OPINIONS. We "don't know what we're talking about" yea okay. That doesn't discredit our opinion in any way tho.

Sorry for not being a hip-hop head who wastes my day listening to underground artists because ppl like Kendrick and J. Cole are just too mainstream

Yea, that's the vibe you give out when you tell ppl broaden their horizons. Don't tell us what to like

Excused.

 

[Da Best Ever]

Right. But it still isn't fair to try to judge him based on the fact someone used his name sarcastically. I mean, I'mma be honest, Lil B sucks, but he does that shit on purpose

If I'm right what is the purpose of the rest of your post?

Also, if those who know him says he sucks then that is the only thing someone who doesn't know him can judge him by.

Saying he does it on purpose is insinuating he can do better and well that might be true but being better than bad doesn't mean you go from bad to good he can very well stay bad but just better than what he was doing on purpose.


As dor you saying its not " fair " to judge him...." Life is not fair "

 

[NarutoB]

As far as you going back to listen to Pac after you heard all the hype, you didn't allow yourself to enjoy the music or accept it for what it was because of two reasons.

1. In that time the lyrics meant more since no rapper today raps the same as him and times were harsher then.

2. You listened to Pac after you heard all the hype so you already predetermined and limited yourself to not liking him as much as those who hype him up.

1. Fail logic? You seem to bring up a lot of irrelevant stuff to make Pac seem better than he really was

2. You don't know that, he could have ignored all the hype and still not have enjoyed him as much (but I'll let Kami answer that lol)

If I'm right what is the purpose of the rest of your post?

Also, if those who know him says he sucks then that is the only thing someone who doesn't know him can judge him by.

Saying he does it on purpose is insinuating he can do better and well that might be true but being better than bad doesn't mean you go from bad to good he can very well stay bad but just better than what he was doing on purpose.


As dor you saying its not " fair " to judge him...." Life is not fair "

You could have just listened to a song by him before you said anything though, not that hard

 

[Kαmi]

As far as you going back to listen to Pac after you heard all the hype, you didn't allow yourself to enjoy the music or accept it for what it was because of two reasons.

1. In that time the lyrics meant more since no rapper today raps the same as him and times were harsher then.

2. You listened to Pac after you heard all the hype so you already predetermined and limited yourself to not liking him as much as those who hype him up.

Nah, I go into things like that with a clear mind and an unbiased mind set. I'm well aware of the fact that high expectations easily lead to disappointments. And I did like the lyrics alot, songs like "I Ain't Mad At Cha", "Brenda's Got A Baby", "Keep Your Head Up", "I Get Around", "Thugz Mansion" and others are songs I really jam too. There are just songs by other old school rappers I like better. I had a friend around here who always told me Nas > Pac so then I listened to Nas. I heard a couple of albums and listened to more and sure enough after to listening to more of Pac and Nas, I formed my own opinion.

So yeah, neither of those are reasons. I just like other rappers better. It's pretty simple if you don't think about it too hard. I never said I didn't enjoy his music, I just like other people's music better.

 

[Da Best Ever]

My opinion already doesn't matter, it wouldn't matter if everyone agreed with me or vice versa, in the end no one's opinion matter. But using popularity as a reason why a rapper is good is just dumb, like I said earlier, it's about quality/personal preference.

Who judges that quality? The fans of the artists

 

[Forest]

Lol I love how you just waltzed in here and starting saying ppl are wrong for having OPINIONS. We "don't know what we're talking about" yea okay. That doesn't discredit our opinion in any way tho.

Sorry for not being a hip-hop head who wastes my day listening to underground artists because ppl like Kendrick and J. Cole are just too mainstream

Yea, that's the vibe you give out when you tell ppl broaden their horizons. Don't tell us what to like

Excused.

Okay Sorry that post made you feel some type of way. It's just that, when people try to argue hip hop, but can't even list 5 golden age hip hop albums off the top of their heads, it kind of gets me feeling funny. I love to share, and I'm serious when I say to broaden your horizons. (If you love hip hop) It's just one hip hop head to another. The mainstream... w/e.... my opinion to you is that it is garbage. Excused? Okay w/e you say chibi, and btw listening to underground hip hop is not a waste of day to me, they talk about stuff that has meaning to me, maybe the mainstream has more meaning to you, you didn't have to slip in that lol, I saw that.

Fail, lyrical substance is based on the fans perception of the lyrics and people viewed Pacs lyrics so great as to immortalize him.

My example is going by the extent of the rapper's Vocabulary / word play/ Literary elements and not the subjective opinions and beliefs of the fans...
by that logic, if people view Chief keefs lyrics to be great then he is lyrically on the same level as Pac or Wu tang? How many people quote his dumb ass hooks and lyrics?
NO no

 

[NarutoB]

[/B]

Who judges that quality? The fans of the artists

But what does quantity have to do with it? Some artists just appeal more to people than others. I mean shit, look at Macklemore, are you saying he's better than anyone that has a miniscule amount of fans compared to him?

It all comes down to opinion

 

[Da Best Ever]

Nah, I go into things like that with a clear mind and an unbiased mind set. And I did like the lyrics alot, songs like "I Ain't Mad At Cha", "Brenda's Got A Baby", "Keep Your Head Up", "I Get Around", "Thugz Mansion" and others are songs I really jam too. There are just songs by other old school rappers I like better. I had a friend around here who always told me Nas > Pac so then I listened to Nas. I heard a couple of albums and listened to more and sure enough after to listening to more of Pac and Nas, I formed my own opinion.

So yeah, neither of those are reasons. I just like other rappers better. It's pretty simple if you don't think about it too hard. I never said I didn't enjoy his music, I just like other people's music better.

You are entitled to that opinion as well as everyone else but saying you didn't doesn't mean you didn't becaus eonly you know how you judged his music. You heard him as hype first and people hyped him up a God of Rap so when you heard his lyrics you like everyone else who has never heard him other than the hype expected his lyrics to be what you thought the best lyrics would be before actually hearing his music....If you did not view him that way then I am wrong but it cannot be proven if you did or didn't because people lie to prove a point especially over the internet, I would be naive to believe you or anyone else over the internet when saying anything about their own self. However, I do know nobody's lyrics meant more to people than Pac's lyrics does. I also know that because he was so great he was immortalized. I also know that lyrical substance is based on the viewers perception of the lyrics.

 

[conan]

This is best rapper ↓↓↓

You must be registered for see links

seruiosly ♡

 

[Da Best Ever]

But what does quantity have to do with it? Some artists just appeal more to people than others. I mean shit, look at Macklemore, are you saying he's better than anyone that has a miniscule amount of fans compared to him?

It all comes down to opinion

You didn't answer the question because you know I was right. You said quality is what its based upon then who view the quality? Who judges that quality? The fans, you and me and everyone else. You have your opinion that such and such is the best, another fan agrees with you, are you not a fan? Yes, do you have an opinion on who you think is the best? Yes, do fans give the opinions of who is the best? Yes, obviously because that is what " we " fans are doing now. You say fans don't matter but that just rules out everything because we are all fans and if fans don't matter then your opinion nor mines nor anyone else would matter. If fans don't matter than no one would listen to the music to judge the quality of it.

 

[Fodder#3]

Just post a website that list Pac's album as #1 for best rap ablum k?

 

[Chibiusa]

But what does quantity have to do with it? Some artists just appeal more to people than others. I mean shit, look at Macklemore, are you saying he's better than anyone that has a miniscule amount of fans compared to him?

It all comes down to opinion

Some magazine had Thrift Shop as the greatest rap song of all time

But it also had No Hands by Waka Flocka Flame in the top 10 I think so I wouldn't take them too serious

 

[Da Best Ever]

Okay Sorry that post made you feel some type of way. It's just that, when people try to argue hip hop, but can't even list 25 golden age hip hop albums off the top of their heads, it kind of gets me feeling funny. I love to share, and I'm serious when I say to broaden your horizons. (If you love hip hop) It's just one hip hop head to another. The mainstream... w/e.... my opinion to you is that it is garbage. Excused? Okay w/e you say chibi, and btw listening to underground hip hop is not a waste of day to me, they talk about stuff that has meaning to me, maybe the mainstream has more meaning to you, you didn't have to slip in that lol, I saw that.



My example is going by the extent of the rapper's Vocabulary / word play/ Literary elements and not the subjective opinions and beliefs of the fans...
by that logic, if people view Chief keefs lyrics to be great then he is lyrically on the same level as Pac or Wu tang? How many people quote his dumb ass hooks and lyrics?
NO no

If I'm not mistaken you said NarutoB in the only credible one in this thread. Now you say you posted that message that way because you hate when people can't list the golden age meaning they don't know music. Well I wanted to point that out because you basically said I am not credible yet if I'm not mistaken I am one of the few to actually list great albums in a post yet you didn't acknowledge me. I just wanted to pint out the real from fake.


Fail. Are you not a fan?

Do you listen to the music?


Do you judge the music?


All are answered with yes and means my point is valid. Lyrical substance is based on the fans perception of the lyrics.

 

[xxxLegacy]

Hahaha Eminem Eminem Eminem Eminem ^ ^
A rap Top 5 List without Marshall Mathers is crap.
Tupac is not the best, we can only compare them at sells and there is nobody better than Eminem.
Anything else is just a opinion

 

[Kαmi]

You are entitled to that opinion as well as everyone else but saying you didn't doesn't mean you didn't becaus eonly you know how you judged his music. You heard him as hype first and people hyped him up a God of Rap so when you heard his lyrics you like everyone else who has never heard him other than the hype expected his lyrics to be what you thought the best lyrics would be before actually hearing his music....If you did not view him that way then I am wrong but it cannot be proven if you did or didn't because people lie to prove a point especially over the internet, I would be naive to believe you or anyone else over the internet when saying anything about their own self. However, I do know nobody's lyrics meant more to people than Pac's lyrics does. I also know that because he was so great he was immortalized. I also know that lyrical substance is based on the viewers perception of the lyrics.

Wait, so you're not gonna accept your wrong on the off chance you think I'm lying? It's not that serious Lol Proving a point on the Internet doesn't help me sleep better and doesn't make me feel better about myself so I'll tell you the blunt truth: I expected Pac to be a rapper who's flow and lyrics would blow me away. I wasn't told hype nearly as great as you describe but simple stuff like Pac is by far greater than all modern rappers. People would say he's one of the best of all time and others would say he would say he's the best. You think I haven't heard those same things about other old rappers? I've heard those same things about Rakim, Korrupt, Nas, Biggie, Heavy D, plenty of people. Hype is a something I don't consider when it comes to rap cause at the end of the day, it's my opinion. So if you want to be naive and think I'm lying, cool. Good for you. Pac had some good lyrics, great even but there's a few rappers who's lyrics I like better. Plus I really don't like how Tupac flows on some songs.

@bold: That's what this whole discussion is based on though. Perception, every person in this world has a different perspective in the way the see/hear things. It's the way of the world. You think Pac is the best. Most of us here in this thread don't. Who's wrong...? Who the f*** cares? I just find it hard to believe you been going back and forth with users when you just said these type of things are based of viewers' perceptions.

 

[NarutoB]

You didn't answer the question because you know I was right. You said quality is what its based upon then who view the quality? Who judges that quality? The fans, you and me and everyone else. You have your opinion that such and such is the best, another fan agrees with you, are you not a fan? Yes, do you have an opinion on who you think is the best? Yes, do fans give the opinions of who is the best? Yes, obviously because that is what " we " fans are doing now. You say fans don't matter but that just rules out everything because we are all fans and if fans don't matter then your opinion nor mines nor anyone else would matter. If fans don't matter than no one would listen to the music to judge the quality of it.

Right. I'm too tired for all of this lol, just explain to me how does what the majority say about an artist have any more importance than what the minority says? Imo it doesn't, you either like a certain rapper or you don't, regardless of what everyone else is saying

Basically Pac is overrated

 

[NarutoB]

Some magazine had Thrift Shop as the greatest rap song of all time

But it also had No Hands by Waka Flocka Flame in the top 10 I think so I wouldn't take them too serious

I'd hate to know what their other 8 songs were

 

[Da Best Ever]

1. Fail logic? You seem to bring up a lot of irrelevant stuff to make Pac seem better than he really was

2. You don't know that, he could have ignored all the hype and still not have enjoyed him as much (but I'll let Kami answer that lol)



You could have just listened to a song by him before you said anything though, not that hard

Hmmm, irrelevant stuff to make him seem like he was better than he really was....ahahaha llab I guess the majority of raps fans use a lot of irrelevant stuff to make him seem better than he really was as well.

Also I only posted no rapper today raps like him how is that making him seem better than he really was? Its not

You should really try harder.


Also, be yourself, wanting to copy and be like someone else is what got dsm kabuto caught in izanami. You are trying to be like me and copy my scheme in that reply.