Who has more chakra, Madara(no hashi DNA) or Nagato

[Helikido]

I cannot. But most topics like this are resolved based on evidence provided by the manga at the moment. Unless new sources of evidence appear to suggest otherwise it is only logical to take what we have and use it to make judgements. The manga suggests that madara has large chakra reserves given his feats. But there is not enough evidence to say whether it can match hashirama's or not. however hashirama's has been compared to the kyuubi which was previousely know to be the being without equal interms of chakra bar the juubi. Given this we can draw conclusions on hashirama's chakra levels but not madara's.

I would say if you are able to control the kyubi, use pf susanoo and fight then you will need kyubi equivalent chakra.

SM modal hashi has kyubi equivalent chakra. Madara solos him for 24 hours while controlling the kyubi which is extremely taxing. And PF susanoo.

 

[Gerkak]

This is true imho. If Hashirama and Madara both fought vigorously after the "beasts" were not a factor...and both were equally exhausted..imho they were equal. If anything imo Hashiramas Chakra may have been very very slightly weaker. Doesn't it take enormous amount of chakra to control Kurama? Just wondering....even so doesn't Madara say that they are equal in the Manga?

Yes he did but them being equal does not mean their chakra supply is equal. Take naruto and sasuke for example, they are usually considered equals despite naruto's greater chakra capacity.

 

[KidGamer65]

It should be common sense that Madara's chakra levels are no where near Hashirama's.

Read this thread on Hashirama's chakra levels.

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When someone can show me where Madara has displayed chakra feats on par with that then it can be a debate. He controlled Kyuubi most of the time (so it seems) and used Susanoo for a short skirmish until Buddha came out.

Hashirama used

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and

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, two structures that rival 100% Kurama in size,

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as you can see in the background,

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, then summoned 5

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only to end it with a statue that

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, and he still had enough chakra left to make a

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.

Madara can't compete with Hashirama when it comes to charka volume, not even close.

 

[Helikido]

Yes he did but them being equal does not mean their chakra supply is equal. Take naruto and sasuke for example, they are usually considered equals despite naruto's greater chakra capacity.

Quality vs Quantity.

With quality, you can use the same amount of jitsu with less chakra.

With quantity, you need more chakra for the same amount of jitsu.

So I would say they are equal.

 

[Gerkak]

Quality vs Quantity.

With quality, you can use the same amount of jitsu with less chakra.

With quantity, you need more chakra for the same amount of jitsu.

So I would say they are equal.

There is no evidence that sasuke's chakra is of higher quality than naruto's. If I am wrong please show me

 

[RikudouMadara]

I cannot. But most topics like this are resolved based on evidence provided by the manga at the moment. Unless new sources of evidence appear to suggest otherwise it is only logical to take what we have and use it to make judgements. The manga suggests that madara has large chakra reserves given his feats. But there is not enough evidence to say whether it can match hashirama's or not. however hashirama's has been compared to the kyuubi which was previousely know to be the being without equal interms of chakra bar the juubi. Given this we can draw conclusions on hashirama's chakra levels but not madara's.

I understand...one pieces together certain facts to form "logical" conclusions to things they cannot determine. Hmm....be that as it may...Madara says Hashirama is the only one to be able to compete with him, correct? Wouldn't that suggest that by Manga fact Madara considers them equal. As Hashirama didn't deny it, did he? Hashirama even said that he couldn't kill Madara at will. Imo I feel back then Madaras chakra lvls may have been slightly weaker.

 

[Helikido]

It should be common sense that Madara's chakra levels are no where near Hashirama's.

Read this thread on Hashirama's chakra levels.

You must be registered for see links

When someone can show me where Madara has displayed chakra feats on par with that then it can be a debate. He controlled Kyuubi most of the time (so it seems) and used Susanoo for a short skirmish until Buddha came out.

Hashirama used

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

, two structures that rival 100% Kurama in size,

You must be registered for see links

as you can see in the background,

You must be registered for see links

, then summoned 5

You must be registered for see links

only to end it with a statue that

You must be registered for see links

, and he still had enough chakra left to make a

You must be registered for see links

.

Madara can't compete with Hashirama when it comes to charka volume, not even close.

If he can't compete then why did he last 24 hours fighting?

Do you really think that controlling the kyubi, using other jitsu and maintaining a PF susanoo requires little chakra. In fact, the PF susanoo drains allot of chakra especially when it is consistently needing to replenish damage it has sustained.

Again, it s quality vs quantity which is pretty equal.

 

[Helikido]

There is no evidence that sasuke's chakra is of higher quality than naruto's. If I am wrong please show me

Uchiha have higher quality chakra.

Uzumaki and Senju have bigger quantities.

Manga fact repeated over and over.

 

[Gerkak]

I would say if you are able to control the kyubi, use pf susanoo and fight then you will need kyubi equivalent chakra.

SM modal hashi has kyubi equivalent chakra. Madara solos him for 24 hours while controlling the kyubi which is extremely taxing. And PF susanoo.

Hashirama was able to create the wood dragon, the wood god and laughing buddha for defense in base. both of which are roughly the same size as perfect susanoo and kyuubi. Wood god is currently fighting on par with PS. You can't tell me that madara has chakra that can match hashi's. Even without sage mode hashirama has greater chakra

 

[RikudouMadara]

Yes he did but them being equal does not mean their chakra supply is equal. Take naruto and sasuke for example, they are usually considered equals despite naruto's greater chakra capacity.

Hmmm...I understand what you're saying I do. Although... there was no specifics about how they were equal...just that they were equal, correct? Of course we don't know the tiny differences in things, but if equal was the only word used, can't we speculate that in every area they were near equal? I do feel in most areas Madaras attributes may have been slightly weaker, but imho...only my opinion it's addling to me for anyone to say they weren't close to equal in every area. That's just me...to each their own of course. :yayy:

 

[KidGamer65]

If he can't compete then why did he last 24 hours fighting?

I said in chakra capacity. That only shows that his jutsu use less chakra than Hashirama's jutsu.

Do you really think that controlling the kyubi, using other jitsu and maintaining a PF susanoo requires little chakra. In fact, the PF susanoo drains allot of chakra especially when it is consistently needing to replenish damage it has sustained.

Never said it requires little chakra, just not as much as what Hashirama did during that fight, that much is obvious.

He used Perfect Susanoo from

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to

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. Which wasn't a long amount of time at all. Also, the bold part never happened in their fight. Madara used PS, Hashirama destroyed it and that was it, he never fixed it up by adding more chakra.

Again, it s quality vs quantity which is pretty equal.

The only thing this thread refers to is quantity of chakra. Hashirama obliterates Madara in that category.

 

[Helikido]

Hashirama was able to create the wood dragon, the wood god and laughing buddha for defense in base. both of which are roughly the same size as perfect susanoo and kyuubi. Wood god is currently fighting on par with PS. You can't tell me that madara has chakra that can match hashi's. Even without sage mode hashirama has greater chakra

Hashirama can't create those without sage mode so no, hashirama does not have more chakra than madara without sage mode. You really think that would be possible when manga dictates them as equals? Come on now.

The manga shows them as equals, and hence therefore, I bring the quality vs quantity statement.

Hashi has the quantity

But madara has the quality to use the same jitsu with less chakra.

So by pure literally meaning, yes hashi has more.

By logic, they both can be equal.

 

[Gerkak]

Uchiha have higher quality chakra.

Uzumaki and Senju have bigger quantities.

Manga fact repeated over and over.

You have forgotten who naruto's mother was. kushina

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She was born with particularly strong chakra.

And then the nine tails said this.

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Naruto inherited kushina's blood which means it is not a stretch to say that naruto inherited her particularly strong chakra as well.

manga fact.

 

[Helikido]

I said in chakra capacity. That only shows that his jutsu use less chakra than Hashirama's jutsu.



Never said it requires little chakra, just not as much as what Hashirama did during that fight, that much is obvious.

He used Perfect Susanoo from

You must be registered for see links

to

You must be registered for see links

. Which wasn't a long amount of time at all. Also, the bold part never happened in their fight. Madara used PS, Hashirama destroyed it and that was it, he never fixed it up by adding more chakra.



The only thing this thread refers to is quantity of chakra. Hashirama obliterates Madara in that category.

He did replenish it, or so was trying to do so.

You can't be silly enough to say that hashiramas chakra will demolish Madras though.

A more logical way to say it is like this:

Yes, hashirama has more chair a about 20-30%, but madara has the the quality of chakra that makes up for it.

 

[Transcendence]

Nagato, no question. Controls 6 Bodies, blows an entire village with a massive technique, fights a SM user for a varied amount of time, uses Chibaku Tensei, fights 6 Tail Kyuubi Naruto AND revived the entire village that he killed. Not comparable.

 

[Helikido]

You have forgotten who naruto's mother was. kushina

You must be registered for see images

She was born with particularly strong chakra.

And then the nine tails said this.

You must be registered for see images

Naruto inherited kushina's blood which means it is not a stretch to say that naruto inherited her particularly strong chakra as well.

manga fact.

By strong chakra, it means big chakra reserves able to suppress the kyubi.

Go look at when obito explains the difference between the uchiha and senju (uzumaki).

Uchiha have quality based chakra for their eyes.

Uzumaki and senju have quantity based chakra to enough to suppress the bijuu.

That's a manga fact.

 

[Transcendence]

Hashirama can't create those without sage mode so no, hashirama does not have more chakra than madara without sage mode. You really think that would be possible when manga dictates them as equals? Come on now.

The manga shows them as equals, and hence therefore, I bring the quality vs quantity statement.

Hashi has the quantity

But madara has the quality to use the same jitsu with less chakra.

So by pure literally meaning, yes hashi has more.

By logic, they both can be equal.

Don't let your fan boy tendencies blind you. Hashirama is and always will be > Madara. He's been praised by the "so called equal" more than once. It isn't "logic" to say they both can be equal. Hashirama has more chakra, and has techniques to counter everything Madara can do. Without an external influence to help Madara (Kurama) he would have lost to Base Hashirama. The only reason Hashirama had to use SM, was because of Kurama.

 

[Fodder#4]

Nagato Uzumaki.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Nagato has more chakra since he uses alot of Rinnegan techniques and does'nt tire,not to mention he's a Uzumaki.

 

[Gerkak]

By strong chakra, it means big chakra reserves able to suppress the kyubi.

Go look at when obito explains the difference between the uchiha and senju (uzumaki).

Uchiha have quality based chakra for their eyes.

Uzumaki and senju have quantity based chakra to enough to suppress the bijuu.

That's a manga fact.

What since when did strong chakra translate to high chakra reserves? Why pick obito's explanation over kushina's. That is biased.