Clearing up Yata Misconceptions

[Black Wolf]

1st bold: Then it makes no sense why you'd bring up rasengan. If it can't swallow a susano'o you make little sense, honestly... I don't even see the point of bringing it in here...

The point is quite obvious - databook hyperbole, and hyperbolic statements in general, are not infallible. In fact, they are undeniably false most of the time, as proven by the Rasengan, and numerous other techniques.

2nd bold: it doesn't have feats to show us it can block raikiri. Stop trying to pull BS now.

Sure it does. Surviving a Rasengan with S-ranked cutting power fueling it in addition to the hottest fire on earth proves Obito's orbs have top tier durability. Based on that top tier durability, it can be inferred that Raikiri, which is inferior to a Futon Rasenshuriken fueled by Amaterasu, cannot damage it.

A susano'o stopped rasengan, and naruto even needed to get madara out of susano'o before tossing rasenshuriken. Amaterasu couldn't dissolve Ay's arm, therefore these 2 jutsu being blocked by his orb is absolutely nothing to suggest it can block Raikiri - raikiri using lightning release to cut.

Because Futon Rasenshuriken is not at all described as being a cutting technique (in addition to explosive)? I mean, its not as if Rasenshuriken cut through

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or anything like that.

OBito's orb blocked the physical force of a Rasengan and fire element of amaterasu, Yata blocked the physichal force of a massive summoning(hydra)

Rasenshuriken is both a physical and cutting technique. The Futon element is described as having top tier cutting ability. In fact, you're in luck. I have a manga scan for you that states that the Futon element can, you guessed it,

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.

Actually, what were you even trying to accomplish with rasengan...? It's broken it's DB hype so many types. Raikiri's actually cut V2 Tailed beasts (kusanagi failed), Ay's raiton armor, Gaara's sand, etc... Really, were you that desperate to bring in Rasengan?

I'm not desperate at all. I listed several techniques, and can list many more, that have hyperbolic databook descriptions that are unrepresentative of what the technique actually does. I handpicked Rasengan because it is an excellent example of a technique that does not live up to its hyperbolic databook description.

In short, either you admit Raikiri cuts the black orbs(Light and Dark jutsu), and yata(Spiritual shield with no physical form) - raikiri's never failed to cut anything thus far - or you admit it doesn't. Either way you look like a fool. Good luck with your obvious bias response.

You are the fool if you continuously fail to distinguish hyperbolic statements from realistic ones.

 

[BlinkST]

Haku's mirrors are literally the speed of light.

 

[Airbear]

Are you kishi ?

NO then you can't deny me being right or no

keep denying in the end your claim is only assumption as mine

Bring me evidences or Kishi's words that Yata Mirror and Totsuka blade don't use chakra, then I WILL ACCEPT ONLY !

Until you have no evidence Itachi's wielding Yata may or may be not invincible due to reason stated by me

Your assumption as meaningful as me stating that Bijuudama being based on Ying and Yang elements can bypass Yata Mirror due to both Ying Yang release being used to create and now to destroy all Ninjutsu aka Obito is doing.

I have no proofs ?, you are right but you have none too, so only we are doing is expressing our thoughts.

We can argue how much we can or respect each other claims until the manga proves one of us wrong.

No offense but it seems like u are smart-witted prick...

U always state out ur opinion in reply to someone's, hinting that they are wrong without out really saying it, and then say that u can't be wrong until kishi contradicts u...

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Itachi said everything has a weakness, his opinion > yours.

It's possible to get around Yata by various means, it only stops literal attacks like fireballs and stuff, it's possible to remove Yata from Susanoo, and there's also the likelyhood that more than one attack can beat it.

So far, all it has is hype since it's only feat is stopping some exploding kunais.

 

[Mellanoma]

Itachi said everything has a weakness, his opinion > yours.

It's possible to get around Yata by various means, it only stops literal attacks like fireballs and stuff, it's possible to remove Yata from Susanoo, and there's also the likelyhood that more than one attack can beat it.

So far, all it has is hype since it's only feat is stopping some exploding kunais.

He said every jutsu has a weakness... Yata is not a jutsu its a godly entity

@bold

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you obviously did not read my OP

 

[KCMNaruto]

No offense but it seems like u are smart-witted prick...

U always state out ur opinion in reply to someone's, hinting that they are wrong without out really saying it, and then say that u can't be wrong until kishi contradicts u...

Yeah No offense taken

That right, everyone has right to express your own opinion and when I think I am right or someone other is wrong then I just point it.

Because this is true and right thing to do... If Kishi doesn't state something, say that somethng can't be done or can be done, then I as everyone has right to say that I see possibility of something working as I think, especially when I back up my claim with manga fact... or manga logic...

Everything in Narutoverse is based on chakra... So is Yata and Totsuka MOST LIKELY... even although THE WEAPONS THEMSELVES ARE NOT MADE OF CHAKRA... BUT THEIR SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES MAY OR MAY NOT USE CHAKRA...

I never said that what I said/wrote is CERTAIN BUT THIS IS STILL POSSIBILTY... and the special way I express my opinion while backing it up prove that THAT IS HIGH POSSIBILITY... That what I think.

So no, I am not trying to be smart but I am smart and uses logic without fanboying/stating bullshit or doing empty threads that why I can be considered as serious member by other members. Really I am not Itachi's hater but I am sure Kishi will put the limit of Yata and Totsuka and only possible weakness I can see is wielder's amount of chakra required in the process of using these weapons...

That all... but you can deny it as much as you can, as well as you can bash/insult me if you want, It won't work on me because I know my worth and when I am right or WHEN I CAN BE RIGHT OR NOT.

Again, if someone as you feel that I am trying to force my opinion without even saying/stating it directly then It only proves that what I am saying is high likely and and has good base for my thoughts. This is only someone's interpretation of my opinion, that can only work in my favour

Try and prove me wrong I challenge you

If you win then I will admit my defeat and will admit that you are right and I am wrong... but can you do it ?

 

[iNotorious]

Kamui -> Yata

:|

 

[Mellanoma]

Yeah No offense taken

That right, everyone has right to express your own opinion and when I think I am right or someone other is wrong then I just point it.

Because this is true and right thing to do... If Kishi doesn't state something, say that somethng can't be done or can be done, then I as everyone has right to say that I see possibility of something working as I think, especially when I back up my claim with manga fact... or manga logic...

Everything in Narutoverse is based on chakra... So is Yata and Totsuka MOST LIKELY... even although THE WEAPONS THEMSELVES ARE NOT MADE OF CHAKRA... BUT THEIR SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES MAY OR MAY NOT USE CHAKRA...

I never said that what I said/wrote is CERTAIN BUT THIS IS STILL POSSIBILTY... and the special way I express my opinion while backing it up prove that THAT IS HIGH POSSIBILITY... That what I think.

So no, I am not trying to be smart but I am smart and uses logic without fanboying/stating bullshit or doing empty threads that why I can be considered as serious member by other members. Really I am not Itachi's hater but I am sure Kishi will put the limit of Yata and Totsuka and only possible weakness I can see is wielder's amount of chakra required in the process of using these weapons...

That all... but you can deny it as much as you can, as well as you can bash/insult me if you want, It won't work on me because I know my worth and when I am right or WHEN I CAN BE RIGHT OR NOT.

Again, if someone as you feel that I am trying to force my opinion without even saying/stating it directly then It only proves that what I am saying is high likely and and has good base for my thoughts. This is only someone's interpretation of my opinion, that can only work in my favour

Try and prove me wrong I challenge you

If you win then I will admit my defeat and will admit that you are right and I am wrong... but can you do it ?

Nagato couldn't absorb totsuka when his preta path barrier was always active

If as you say totsuka uses chakra then Nagato should have absorbed said chakra and prevented himself from being sealed

 

[Airbear]

Lol @ KCMinato

.... chill bruh don't get so worked up. Zzz

This will only end in a stalemate. U have already asked me once before to prove that u are wrong. But if I may ask, wheres ur manga scan showing yata being dehyped? U act as if only 1 can play the ask and tell game...

 

[TrollingSage]

Nagato couldn't absorb totsuka when his preta path barrier was always active

It isnt. I am fairly certain it has to be activated, hence the reason Nagato got hit by amaterasu.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Nagato couldn't absorb totsuka when his preta path barrier was always active

If as you say totsuka uses chakra then Nagato should have absorbed said chakra and prevented himself from being sealed

Well you brought really good point but I can easily counter that argument saying that when Nagato was pierced by totsuka
then Kabuto lost control over Nagato. Now you cant disprove that Nagato can absorb chakra from totsuka blade.

The reasons:
- Nagato himself wasnt enemy so he has no desire to free himself from totsuka sealing.
- If Nagato did what you suggest then Kabuto could restore his control over Nagato after negating totsuka sealing abbilities by absorbing chakra and that could only bring more trouble for naruto and ko.

So first issue with your thinking way is that Nagato wasnt enemy.

But even if nagato was enemy then absorbing chakra wouldnt stop totsuka sealing as itach can recharge his chakra in second.

try harder

 

[Mellanoma]

Well you brought really good point but I can easily counter that argument saying that when Nagato was pierced by totsuka
then Kabuto lost control over Nagato. Now you cant disprove that Nagato cant absorb chakra from totsuka blade.

The reasons:
- Nagato himself wasnt enemy so he has no desire to free himself from totsuka sealing.
- If Nagato did what you suggest then Kabuto could restore his control over Nagato after negating totsuka sealing abbilities by absorbing chakra and that could only bring more trouble for naruto and ko.

So first issue with your thinking way is that Nagato wasnt enemy.

But ecen if nagato was enemy then absorbing chakra wouldnt stop totsuka sealing as itach can recharge his chakra in second.

try harder

The only true explanation of totsuka not needing chakra is when Itachi sealed away the eight headed snake with little to no chakra left. Clearly it was orochimaru and considering the strength of the Eight headed Hydra if chakra was required to seal it Itachi would have either died in the process or wasn't able to seal it entirely which he did

 

[KCMNaruto]

The only true explanation of totsuka not needing chakra is when Itachi sealed away the eight headed snake with little to no chakra left. Clearly it was orochimaru and considering the strength of the Eight headed Hydra if chakra was required to seal it Itachi would have either died in the process or wasn't able to seal it entirely which he did

Very good point brought by you once again. I am truelly impressed by you and I really liky you even although we have opposite point of view at Itachi and these two weapons Totsuka and Yata.

Comming back to topic, I wont contradict or deny your interpreratio of manga.
However let me show you my point of view. First we know that amount chakra equall 0= death , If that is true then you cant say that Itachi didnt have any chakra at this point, besides he planned to die from Sasuke's hands anyway.

Now of course I dont say that totsuka need amount of chakra equall or bigger then victim pierced by that because it could be only illogica which only lead me to conclusion that yata mirror and totsuka blade mechanism of working based on chakra is NOT THE SAME.

Elaborating further on the Totsuka I will say that Totsuka require only bit of chakra to work. It could make sense as Itachi was able to seal Orochimaru while being on verge of dying. Actually believe that only bit of chakra is needed for Yata and Totsuka to appear as visible for eye to notice.

The only counters to Totsuka blade I can see working are:
- absorbing a bit of chakra from the totsuka blade which totsuka takes from the wielder which could deactivate totsuka or deactivate special ability of totsuka aka sealing power.
- another one could be master of sealing techniques and having knowledge about sealing power with which totsuka is enhanced to find it weakness or maube possible counter
- last one is being master of yin release (genjutsu) with possibility of breaking eternal dream totsuja put victim after sealing.

The counters for yata mirror (possible):
- having greater amount of chakra then wielder of yata as well as being able to put that chakra into technique which make use of that chakra. This could allow difference of chakra between enemy and wielder along with attack could bypass yata and attack wielder.
- force wielder to use all his chakra

Summary of my thoughts:

- Both yata and totsuka require a bit of chakra to become visible
- While totsuka need small amount of chakra to seal enemy, yata mirror requires directly proportional amount of chakra from wielder as enemy's attack has to negate/ turn back that attack.

That all please dont hate and keep open mind. As well please respect my point of view as I respect yours

I really enjoyed having this debate with you so I hope you too

Ps:I am writting on my phone so sorry for grammar error spelling errors and try to be understandable for me

Thanks !

 

[Blaze Release]

They were lumped in with the other weapons. They simply tend to stand out more due to their other properties. People knew about the Totsuka blade, but no one knew it was actually liquid inside of a jar.

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Thus no one recognized what it truly was until Itachi began the sealing process. Orochimaru thought it was an actual physical sword, so he was looking for a sword. Same deal with the shield. These are simply legends that became distorted over time, and the truth was uncovered that they had been Susanoo powers the whole time.

I think i get what you are proposing but again it doesn't match up. If those are tools of sasanoo which you claim, you also claim "they tend to stand out more due to their other properties" and that makes no sense to me. How itachi was able to unlock a susanoo which weapons that go beyond the normal susano weapons we have.

On the same note you claimed they belonged to sasuno and possible a previous susano user. From what we know the only possibility is izuna we know next to nothing about his abilities. For all we know he hadn't mastered his ms to unlock susano and if we assumed he did, those weapons due to their hype goes beyond izuna's hype and that age. It goes further. The only 2 other possible susanoo users that going by your theory it may apply to are the older son or rikudou but that is going too way.

A previous susanoo user wielding those weapons aren't convincing, but also why they came attached to Itachi's and no one else's.

And it was later revealed that he had been looking for the blade based on a misconception; a legend. It never states he was actually going to find them or that they had been physical weapons prior to that.

Its true orochimaru didn't even recognise the weapon nor did he have any knowledge on them or else he would have tried to evade it. He even went as far as undermining its effect and calling it a scratch if i remember correctly, so yes he was mostly going on based on legends.

It was never stated that the Totsuka sword can "change it's properties", and the manner in which the Yata mirror changes has to do with the manner in which it deals with enemy jutsu. It never stated that either of them had been "found" and "added" by Itachi, or "modified" by him somehow. It simply says they are the power of the Susano'o.

It doesn't need to state that the totsuka can change its properties. For one they have been described as spiritual or having no form. Having we do know that the totsuka can change its properties somewhat. The sword goes from liquid and turns into a sword [

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]. likewise it has shown the ability to expend its length. We also know that like its variant that orochimaru wields that also has similar abilities. We have seen orochimari's version increase in length , but also transform into a

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.


It might also not have stated that itachi added it to his susanoo, but what you are proposing which is another susano user wielded them hasn't been stated either and tbh that is less convincing than what i am proposing

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

He said every jutsu has a weakness... Yata is not a jutsu its a godly entity

@bold


you obviously did not read my OP

Yata is not a godly entity, it's a mirror/shield imbued with a special seal just like Totsuka. Seal = jutsu.

"Magic" in the Narutoverse is called "jutsu." Itachi said all jutsus have weaknesses.

You can claim whatever you want, but there is nothing in this series that is perfect.

 

[BlinkST]

I think i get what you are proposing but again it doesn't match up. If those are tools of sasanoo which you claim, you also claim "they tend to stand out more due to their other properties" and that makes no sense to me. How itachi was able to unlock a susanoo which weapons that go beyond the normal susano weapons we have.

That's of no real concern to me, since I'm not writing this story. Characters simply stated that the weapons are powers of his eyes [Susano'o], so that's the conclusion I have to go with. They clarified that they were never substantial weapons that other people were never quite going to find.

On the same note you claimed they belonged to sasuno and possible a previous susano user. From what we know the only possibility is izuna we know next to nothing about his abilities. For all we know he hadn't mastered his ms to unlock susano and if we assumed he did, those weapons due to their hype goes beyond izuna's hype and that age. It goes further. The only 2 other possible susanoo users that going by your theory it may apply to are the older son or rikudou but that is going too way.

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Spoiler

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Susanoo weapons don't "belong" to a particular person. Anyone has the potential to use them.

It doesn't need to state that the totsuka can change its properties.

No, it needs to, in order for that to be substantial point.

For one they have been described as spiritual or having no form. Having we do know that the totsuka can change its properties somewhat. The sword goes from liquid and turns into a sword [

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]. likewise it has shown the ability to expend its length. We also know that like its variant that orochimaru wields that also has similar abilities. We have seen orochimari's version increase in length , but also transform into a

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.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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None of that has anything to do with Itachi adding those items to the Susanoo. In case you forgot, the Susanoo itself can change easily in size, as it's something whose existence is under the control of user. Because Susanoo and it's weapons alike are 'spiritual' in nature and exist only temporarily.

 

[Mitarashi]

The only misconception here is you thinking you know everything about the manga that hasn't been stated.
Go away fanboy, if kishi doesn't say it it doesn't count.

Welldone wasting 20minutes of your life making your pixel shield feel better.

 

[Owarij]

Yata is not a godly entity, it's a mirror/shield imbued with a special seal just like Totsuka. Seal = jutsu.

"Magic" in the Narutoverse is called "jutsu." Itachi said all jutsus have weaknesses.

You can claim whatever you want, but there is nothing in this series that is perfect.

Yup , Hidan's immortality is definitely a jutsu

 

[adeshina365]

Excellent thread.

Agreed on all points.

 

[naruttebayo]

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hahaha

prove me wrong dear

you can't

besides binkst soloed this thread multiple times ..... now ..... so stop hyping yata .
this bs about has been going for so long

yata can't stop kamui deal with it...