[Discussion] Zoro vs Smoker?
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That is after smoker had his initial angry bout with Vergo, when he realised he was no match for vergo at all he decided to help law instead in order to defeat vergo (that was his strategy). So Basically smoker did try his best (100%) and only after that he realized he could not stop vergo and therefore switched his strategy to helping law instead.
Mephew D Kensei
Active member
The first thing please need to do is break free of this insanity that to break thru haki only a stronger haki can, forgetting haki especially Koka is not some superficial tech(as in mine's stronger so I am overally stronger than u n no attack from u will hurt me) rather haki abides by the laws of force in that a force of stronger magnitude will break thru, such as luffy's Gatling vs the Boa sisters' hakified attacks. In the Bellamy case i think it makes sense for Luffy to receive damage from that coz it wasn't a battle of just a hardened fist and a hardened gut but a hardened fist with the force equal the accumulated potential of Bellamy's hopping about vs a stationary Luffy with a hardened gut, and by that four balls pendulum g10/f2 experiment we know force will still travel in its initial direction when there is a physical barricade with similar properties to what ever physical object the force originates from(if memory still serves me well g.g)
With spring hopper bellamy gets so fast he is up there with the really fast stuff we have seen in op and the force accumulated n carried in that fist shld b really insane and makes perfect sense to harm Luffy a bit.
With that said, Zoro's attacks carry a lot of force in them that with whatever shitty haki pple seem to assume he has he shld still deal damage to Smoker(a lot with his higher end attacks).
Zoro high diff and that's giving some to Smoker.
With spring hopper bellamy gets so fast he is up there with the really fast stuff we have seen in op and the force accumulated n carried in that fist shld b really insane and makes perfect sense to harm Luffy a bit.
With that said, Zoro's attacks carry a lot of force in them that with whatever shitty haki pple seem to assume he has he shld still deal damage to Smoker(a lot with his higher end attacks).
Zoro high diff and that's giving some to Smoker.
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So your definition of trying your best (100%) if giving up halfway after realizing you will lose? LOL okay. Trying your best means not giving up & he was barely suffering serious injuries before he decided to go after Law's heart.
He had a battle with Law before that. With his battle with Vergo he did fine and never went all out. I can't believe you thought he did.He did not suffer injuries but he was loosing stamina all the same. And Doflamingo spilled enough blood for the both of them
Your reasoning for Smoker going all out is a contradiction. You state that he "went all out" at the start and then stopped once he wanted to help out Law. That's not going all out. He wasn't close to being dead during that battle and I don't think Vergo was holding back. He doesn't care for the marines (G5).
Vergo against Law
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Vergo against smoker
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Of course vergo was holding back. He had no reason to go all out. He could have killed smoker either way.
About smoker not being on the verge of death. Well he certainly looked like he was on the verge of death when he fought doflamingo. You say he did not go all out against dofla either >_>
Vergo never went full body CoA against Law the first time. He was just pissed that Law got his heart back. That still doesn't prove he was holding back.
He never went all out during his battle with Doffy either. He was injured from the battle with Vergo and his jitte was broken by Vergo. We're talking about Vergo here.
That was beacause he had law's heart squashed in his hand. He could have killed law with a squeeze. So he was holding back then (because he had no reason to put much effort).
Also the size of his muscles. He was more pumped that time than he was in all the time he spent on punk hazard. Which means he was putting in more effort against law from his side. (the motive does not matter)
Ok So Smoker's Jutte met his limit against vergo's bamboo (so basically it would have broke agains dofy's strings as well). And you said smoker was never seriously injured in his fight against vergo lol + he rested during the time from that fight till dofla arrived.
And it is Highly unlikely that smoker would give up on his comrades and his life without going all out first.
Just because Vergo never went full body CoA, doesn't mean he was holding back against Smoker. He just underestimated Smoker or knew that it wasn't needed for him. He did downplay Smoker a lot so I assume that he was underestimating him a lot. Neither Smoker or Vergo were holding back and none of them were trying 100% either. I'm still waiting for you to prove that Smoker did go all out.
I hope you actually realize that his "healing" time wasn't as long as you think it is. The point is that Smoker was at a disadvantage. He couldn't have used his weapon b/c of Vergo breaking it. Yes, he wasn't seriously injured (as in in life threatening injuries), ofc smoker was injured but it wasn't serious.
Smoker mainly uses his weapon against DF users, so that battle wasn't a representation of his full strength.
I already proved smoker went all out >_> you are just not inclined to acknowledge it. If smoker could take down vergo he would have done it himself, since it was outside his code of honour to accept help from a pirate. So if he could, he would have. Meaning Smoker understood he could not defeat vergo.
And how can a person know if he can or cannot defeat someone unless he goes at him with his full strength behind his attacks. (Both mental and physical strength)
People hold back when they know the job can be done with less amount of energy. (Is that so difficult to understand)
I think I summed up why smoker did give his 100% and turned out a looser in the above post, which was the whole point of this discussion.
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Lol Look... Smoker gave up the intention of kicking his ass therefore he didn't go all out. How would that make it an all out fight for Smoker if he gave up half way? The second half of the fight wasn't even him trying to kick Vergo's ass, he wanted to help Law. Giving up half way isn't going all out, that's all you need to know and that's the end of the discussion.
Ok you need to define what you mean by all out >_>
"All out" according to me is when you have used all of your strongest attacks that would work against your opponent. And smoker did the very same and it had no effect on vergo, therefore he gave the baton to law.
I think all-out for you means one dies. That is wrong. Beacause this is not Naruto or some chi based manga where you use your life force to create chakra or other such stupid energy boosts.
How can you say that those are Smoker's strongest attacks? We've barely seen anything new out of his DF post-TS. So really you got nothing to base this on. All we've seen him use was deliver haki blows and clash a couple of times with Vergo. Listen to this because it seems like you're avoiding it... If you're giving up half way then you're not going all out. It's not like Smoker was seriously injured before passing the baton to Law, so I wouldn't call this an all out fight. (he was pretty exhausted that's all but no where close to passing out)
An all out fight is showing your full potential (strongest attacks) and fighting to the end, either death or passing out. Smoker has yet to show us the potential of his DF so you have no right to say it's an all out fight for Smoker. Even pre-TS nothing was really shown from his DF that can be seen as "powerful".
You just don't want to give up on smoker. That's exactly what fanboys do. Just because you expect him to show new smoke attacks does not mean he canonically has the same. Ironically I have based my reason firmly and you have based you reasons on your expectation about how strong smoker should have gotten in 2 years.
Mephew D Kensei
Active member
I think what Smoker showed r his limits currently and yo assumption that he has other tricks is just that an assumption, and so not a feat to support him and b used in a vs match up.
Lol Corazon just give up on these idiots they jump on the hate Smoker bandwagon. Just enjoy the fact we know he'll reappear to rival Luffy like he has been doing throughout the grandline.
Also for the record Smoker not using his usual strategy in a battle is him not going all out, even if he knew he couldn't beat Vergo him using a different strategy to the one he would usually use is him holding back effectively. I'm not going to lie and say Smoker could beat Vergo I think even Luffy would struggle in that regards however it's pure ignorance to ignore the circumstances that happened in the fight. The sae way how the majority of the people ignore the fact Law blindsided Smoker in their fight and how Smoker was injured and without his primary weapon in his fight against Doflamingo.
Also for the record Smoker not using his usual strategy in a battle is him not going all out, even if he knew he couldn't beat Vergo him using a different strategy to the one he would usually use is him holding back effectively. I'm not going to lie and say Smoker could beat Vergo I think even Luffy would struggle in that regards however it's pure ignorance to ignore the circumstances that happened in the fight. The sae way how the majority of the people ignore the fact Law blindsided Smoker in their fight and how Smoker was injured and without his primary weapon in his fight against Doflamingo.
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