[Discussion] Zoro>Sanji in character development

[Bogard]

Are you serious? tbh i think this man is trolling.

You find way more Zoro's then you do Sanji's lmao. Not to mention Jiraiya and Kakashi are nothing like Sanji. Sanji is actually an unique character whereas you can find Zoro in every single Shonen manga out there.

The only thing Sanji, Jiraiya and Kakashi have in common is that they're pervs. Sanji's personality is nothing like theirs+Sanji isn't your ordinary shonen perv. He actually gets b*tches U_U

Zoro is just the cliche grumpy badass character. Although Zoro is one of my favs im not biased, i admit Oda has done some stupid shit with Zoro's character. Post-TS all he does is spend 90% of an arc doing something useless and then 10% fighting. Pre-skip he had a much bigger role then just the "badass" fighter who shows up at the last minute to whoop ass.

Pre-skip Zoro was somewhat unique. Post-skip he's turned into just another wolverine/Kenpachi.

1- When the strawhats were about to be captured in the Ryugu palace, it's Zoro who took control of the operation, making them hostage and using them to make requests favourising their leave of the island. It only turned bad because he didn't expect Hodi and Decken's gang to come

2- When Luffy lost to Caesar and himself got subdued by Yeti Cool brothers, while everyone in the crew was taking things lightly, Zoro didn't(for a reason). If the strawhats crew continued to be so careless, the group will achieve nothing in the new world and Zoro understood that and because of this he reprehended Luffy(and the crew) about their doings

3- He showed change in character with Tashigi in Punk Hazard. Before he was avoiding her at all cost, but now he can speak to her face to face accepting her not as Kuina's double anymore and even helped her when she couldn't move on her own to escape the Smile's gas

He may not have been the most developed strawhat, but i don't see how Zoro had no development post-skip

 

[Olorin]

Luffy is a better character than Zoro though, as is Usopp :/

Note that Zoro shares the place for my 2nd fav character

 

[Fireplay]

1- When the strawhats were about to be captured in the Ryugu palace, it's Zoro who took control of the operation, making them hostage and using them to make requests favourising their leave of the island. It only turned bad because he didn't expect Hodi and Decken's gang to come

2- When Luffy lost to Caesar and himself got subdued by Yeti Cool brothers, while everyone in the crew was taking things lightly, Zoro didn't(for a reason). If the strawhats crew continued to be so careless, the group will achieve nothing in the new world and Zoro understood that and because of this he reprehended Luffy(and the crew) about their doings

3- He showed change in character with Tashigi in Punk Hazard. Before he was avoiding her at all cost, but now he can speak to her face to face accepting her not as Kuina's double anymore and even helped her when she couldn't move on her own to escape the Smile's gas

He may not have been the most developed strawhat, but i don't see how Zoro had no development post-skip

I never said that Zoro hasn't had any development Post-TS. All the SH's have developed, some more than the others but that doesn't mean Zoro hasn't had any development. What im saying is a response to OP saying that Zoro's development>Sanji's and that Sanji can be found everywhere. Overall looking at Zoro as a character...he is far more cliche then Sanji.

Some of the things you listed aren't really character development considering that Zoro was doing things like that Pre-skip.

 

[ultraChalk]

I like Sanji more, but I think that Zoro is a more obtuse character, outside of his fights because his fights are just boring imo except for when he uses Asura.

He's shown to be more concerned about the safety of the crew, Luffys decisions and all that than Sanji... sure Sanji does his hide in the background and suddenly change the whole game by doing something slick, but I see that as more of a contribution to the plot, not exactly his character and personality, though that is debatable.

But if you want to talk about fights, then Sanji is the far more developed character

 

[Hexuze]

Are you serious? tbh i think this man is trolling.

You find way more Zoro's then you do Sanji's lmao. Not to mention Jiraiya and Kakashi are nothing like Sanji. Sanji is actually an unique character whereas you can find Zoro in every single Shonen manga out there.

The only thing Sanji, Jiraiya and Kakashi have in common is that they're pervs. Sanji's personality is nothing like theirs+Sanji isn't your ordinary shonen perv. He actually gets b*tches U_U

Zoro is just the cliche grumpy badass character. Although Zoro is one of my favs im not biased, i admit Oda has done some stupid shit with Zoro's character. Post-TS all he does is spend 90% of an arc doing something useless and then 10% fighting. Pre-skip he had a much bigger role then just the "badass" fighter who shows up at the last minute to whoop ass.

Pre-skip Zoro was somewhat unique. Post-skip he's turned into just another wolverine/Kenpachi.

I never said that Zoro hasn't had any development Post-TS. All the SH's have developed, some more than the others but that doesn't mean Zoro hasn't had any development. What im saying is a response to OP saying that Zoro's development>Sanji's and that Sanji can be found everywhere. Overall looking at Zoro as a character...he is far more cliche then Sanji.

Some of the things you listed aren't really character development considering that Zoro was doing things like that Pre-skip.

Agreed....

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[Punk Hazard]

Zoro is the Piccolo/Vegeta of the OPverse. Strong-willed, reclusive, typical tough guy badass, abrasive, and his strength is the second most important thing to him. Even down to the voice actors in English dub is the same. Not only that, but Piccolo and Vegeta both sacrificed themselves in iconic moments for other characters they cared about when before they were perceived as tough guy, stone cold all-about-me men, same as Zoro with Kuma.

Zoro is ahead of Sanji in character development in that Sanji receded as a character, with one of his positive traits becoming less and less. However, Zoro, along with Brook, is the only Strawhat that hasn't developed in a unique way, a way that only themselves have.

1. Luffy realized that his friends and he were mortal, and that they all needed to stop slacking. Luffy stopped the subconscious denial that they'll always make it out somehow.

2. Nami grew to admit when she's scared and feels in danger, rather than being a coward and accepting any danger and slinking her way through, she pushes forward bravely. She stopped lying to herself. She's also grown to put people ahead of money

3. Robin grew to regain her self-worth and to trust people

4. Chopper grew to fight on his own and have confidence in his powers

5. Usopp has become braver

6. Sanji has realized dying is worth it if it means capturing your dream, he no longer believes in forsaking your dream to escape with your life

7. Franky learned to love whatever he makes and show it off proudly, not to be ashamed or disown them.

8. Zoro grew to put his friends' lives before his own. However, all of the other Strawhats have done so too, so like I said, he lacks his own distinct growth as a character.

If Sanji is a 2 in development, Zoro is a 2.5, he's not that much ahead of Sanji.

 

[Sweet Pudding]

Whats character development? Like who is stronger? Then Zoro

 

[Punk Hazard]

Dat bold....

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[xanonymosx]

Whats character development? Like who is stronger? Then Zoro

in terms of personality

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

I completely disagree

1. Pasts

Zoro: His past backstory is he and Kuina aim to become strong sword fighters. Kuina dies. but norhjng really changes. They'd already sworn to become the WGS bwtweeen the two. He only strengthens his resolve.

Sanji: He starts as a punk who finds the other Cheffs eating of leftovers and spoiled food disgusting. But his time with Zeff he finds a newfound respect for life and value for food.

The only other times we see Zoro having serious or intimate (in terms of friendship) is when pledging himself to Luffy over and over. The only other hugely significant time is when he caught Robin.

Sanji has moments with multiple crew members. Several times with Ussop. One of these moments being when he explains to Chopper why he can't heal Ussop.

What's more, he actually helps advance the plot. His actions on Ennis Lobby. Or Alabasta as Mr. Prince multiple times...Rain Base and Little Garden.

Not to mention overall he's more active in talking with the crew. Which Zoro doesn't nearly do as often. In fact, since the time skip, the only person Zoro's even legitimately given worth wile discussion to is honestly his bantering with Sanji. Other than that it's just been him waiting to fight someone....and then completely shitting on that person. A practical Kenpachi as someone else already noted.

In terms of strength development, neither have even gone all out. So we don't even know how different pre and post they have become. But obviously Zoro has improved by leaps and bounds. Just like Sanji...just like everyone.

Whats character development? Like who is stronger? Then Zoro

Character development reflects their overall progression. Most notably in personality and actions with others.

Zoro has had some really good moments.

Such as his promise to Luffy and near sacrifice to Luffy.

But overall, his character is virtually no different than he was back in chapter 2. Except he's stronger.

Sanji has at least had moments of change, but more importantly has more interactions with multiple crew members AND non crew members like Kinemon. Which overall, makes him more developed as a character.

 

[Bogard]

Zoro: His past backstory is he and Kuina aim to become strong sword fighters. Kuina dies. but norhjng really changes. They'd already sworn to become the WGS bwtweeen the two. He only strengthens his resolve.

This is quite missing something. His character development did change. He now found a greater cause than his own ambition

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And that is to support his captain(Luffy) to realise his dream. It's for that exact reason he was ok in giving up his dream and his life if it meant keeping Luffy alive. He basically grew to become Luffy's right hand man when at the beginning of the manga he was puting his ambition over everything. He still has his ambition, but it's now secondary

 

[Punk Hazard]

This is quite missing something. His character development did change. He now found a greater cause than his own ambition

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And that is to support his captain(Luffy) to realise his dream. It's for that exact reason he was ok in giving up his dream and his life if it meant keeping Luffy alive. He basically grew to become Luffy's right hand man when at the beginning of the manga he was puting his ambition over everything. He still has his ambition, but it's now secondary

Yeah, like every other Strawhat has. Where is his distinct development?

 

[Tomato God]

Other strawhats didn't grow to become Luffy's right hand man

Usopp Grew to be luffy's guardian angel though.
Usopp beat everyone in terms of Character development.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Other strawhats didn't grow to become Luffy's right hand man

Cut the bullshit. Every Strawhat has grown to put their crew above their lives and dreams. Luffy doesn't have a right hand man, every Strawhat plays an equally pivotal role to the crew.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well i'm not gonna argue about this once again, otherwise the arguments would run in circles. You can keep believing that if you want. I'm pretty certain the manga will speak for itself when the time comes, so you'll see soon enough

There is nothing you can cite for Zoro being the vice captain that can't be refuted or applied to another Strawhat.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Only in your eyes because you keep denying facts

More bullshit. The major reasons you guys say Zoro is VA is that:

1. Barto and Urouge said that.
Refute: They aren't in the crew. Barto is a gag, and Urouge has seen one Strawhat in person once. Secondly, the WG, a far more knowledgeable entity than Urouge and Barto combined think of Chopper as pet, and not their doctor or a fighter, showing outside opinions can be wrong and are not cement facts.

2. Zoro has taken initiative, telling the crew what to do and handling the Usopp situation by talking sense to Luffy, and making Luffy get a grip on Punk Hazard while acting hastily..

Refute: Nami has also taken initiative and given orders to the crew during storms and when treading in dangerous parts of the sea. Sanji has taken initiative by misleading Crocodile, damaging the Arc Maxim and opening the gates in Enies Lobby, all of which saved the crew's life. Sanji also forced Luffy to get a grip during the Usopp situation when he kicked Luffy through the table when he was about to tell Usopp to leave outright, Zoro didn't do that. Sanji also supported Zoro's point in the Usopp situation.

3. Zoro was willing to sacrifice his life to Kuma for Luffy and the crew.
Refute: Sanji was willing to do the same, and the rest crew is too.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Your logic is flawed but like i've said, you'll keep denying even if i showed you where the flaw in your post actually is. The real reason why those points(as well as others you completely forget/forgot) shows Zoro as the vice-captain of the crew isn't even what you listed(especially the second point), but i won't bother considering you don't even want to listen

I'm all ears. Tell me how it's flawed.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

The captain is always the strongest person in the crew, so if Luffy were to die Zoro would become captain.

 

[Tomato God]

The captain is always the strongest person in the crew, so if Luffy were to die Zoro would become captain.

What about buggy? Pirates will follow whoever regardless of strength. Foxy couldnt beat that Giant I bet. Or the that Wapan.

 

[-Akuma-]

Lol Zoro is you cliché typical shonen badass, while Sanji is nothing like Kakashi aprt from him being a perv. Going by you logic Zoro is just like, Kenpachi Zaraki, Hibari Kyoya and many other typical shonen badasses.. Zoro is in no way unique nor does he have alot of character development.