[Discussion] Zoro = Badass
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1. Luffy has been portrayed as stronger for the majority, if not entirety, of the series. Even by Zoro's own admission in Dressrosa when he says that someone like Pica isn't worth Luffy's time, so he'd be his opponent instead.
2. Cracker was stronger than Luffy, so if Zoro is stronger than him, he's gonna be stronger than Luffy.
Given that the manga has portrayed Luffy as stronger than Zoro, and never that Zoro was stronger than Luffy, you'd need evidence that the roles were flipped.
1. Luffy and Zoro were portrayed to be equals from at the very least from East Blue to Alabasta where they even had a equal fight in Whiskey Peak. Since it happened at a period of time, nothing suggest it not happening again at all especially after the timeskip where they got different trainings. Against Pica, Zoro was just taunting him. It was never him admitting any kind of inferiority. He even stated himself later that he forgot to tell him that Luffy isn't the only one to be worried about since there is him too and later on we had characters like Chinjao questioning why he is the subordinate
2. Not every yonko commander is Cracker level. Snack wasn't. Doflamingo isn't and even if it is the case at the moment, by the time of wano arc, Luffy will be stronger, so there is nothing stopping current Zoro in accomplishing a feat Luffy couldn't
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The fact that Luffy has fought the strongest opponent since then consistently until Thriller Bark. What feats has Zoro had since Alabasta to suggest that he was on the same level as Luffy, or is one brief duel in Whiskey Peak supposed to carry equality for the entire series?
Why are you saying this like a taunt can't be the truth? Zoro telling Pica he's too weak for Luffy and has to settle for him can be both a taunt and an admission.
People have questioned why he is a subordinate because of his murderous attitude, which implies that he wouldn't be anyone's subordinate, and because he has strength to carry himself. That has never necessarily meant that he's as strong as Luffy, just that his demeanor isn't that of a person who'd be anyone's subordinate.
This is such an irrelevant thing to say. We're talking about Zoro vs Cracker and how that would compare in outcome to Cracker vs Luffy. The other commanders and Doflamingo is irrelevant because Cracker is the common factor in the comparison between Luffy and Zoro.
If Luffy was weaker than Cracker, then Zoro would need to be stronger than Luffy to defeat Cracker.
1. It's not what i said. I know Enies Lobby Luffy was stronger. I said that at the very least at one point of the manga, Oda portrayed them as equals and thus it's not impossible for him to do it again especially with them having received 2 different types of training, so with nothing stopping Zoro having coming stronger from his training. This not to say it's the case, but that so far since the new world, nothing suggested that to be impossible especially with the way Oda portrayed Zoro to go easily through the new world while still hiding his full power(he didn't even use his Enies Lobby power-up yet)
2. I didn't say the taunt can't be the truth, but a taunt remains a taunt and the character comparisons they receive in the manga certainly prove this. And what are you talking about? Chinjao and Zoro barely even interacted in dressrosa to know his personality. Chinjao actually fought Luffy in the tournament and the only thing he saw from Zoro was when he split Pica's golem and defeated him. It's his strength that made him wonder why he is the subordinate and that was again after having already witnessed Luffy's strength in the coloseum(pre-G4 though)
3. That's what you think. Nothing suggest he was only referring to Cracker. Besides as mentioned, it could all depend on how Oda decides to handle the difference in their timeskip comparatively to the jump he could make Luffy have this arc
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Sure it's not impossible. But it only happened at one point in the story, and it happened in 1999. It hasn't even happened for all of the 21st century. So yeah, it's possible but that's a major reach.
The notion that they had two different types of training is also invalid for two reasons. For one thing, Luffy is a brawler, and Zoro is a swordsman, and Luffy's powers and combat stems from a Devil Fruit. Their training was different for the entirety of the manga because their fighting styles have been vastly different for the entirety of the manga. And even then, Luffy was still stronger than Zoro, so the notion that different training means Zoro will catch up or even be stronger is illogical. If different training means Zoro would catch up, then it should have happened before.
Not only that, but Luffy and Zoro's trainings during the timeskip were extremely superior. Both Zoro and Luffy stated that their training were fighting strange creatures every day, with Zoro fighting the Humandrills and Luffy fighting those giant animals. Their timeskip training were also similar in that they were both training in Busohoku and Kenbonshoku Haki. So their timeskip training can't even be applied to this argument that different training will lead to equality or surpassing.
Also lol at "Zoro's been having an easy time in the NW." Yeah, put nothing but children in front of Luffy, and he'd be coasting too.
It's funny you say that Chinjao barely knowing Zoro comment, considering that you've used that scan of Urouge saying he was the first mate as evidence that he is. Zoro's reputation and murderous aura precedes himself. Urouge was able to make a pretty accurate, and similar, "That's a subordinate?" comment about Zoro despite knowing absolutely nothing about his personality, only knowing his reputation as a bounty hunter and seeing how he responded to the Celestial Dragon. So it's not like Chinjao needs to know Zoro's personality to know the same thing.
Even without Zoro's murderous demeanor, that doesn't suggest that he thinks Luffy is weaker than Zoro or anything close, just that Zoro's strength is that of a person that you wouldn't expect to have a leader.
Wh-what? Devia said he hates fanboys as a response to LBeezy saying that Zoro is stronger than Cracker. ArabianLuffy then responded that you can't blame people like him and LBeezy for saying that Zoro>Cracker because they have faith he can beat a Yonko commander.
I'm not the one that attributed them all to the same strength level, ArabianLuffy did to justify saying "Zoro>Cracker." That's when I asked him if he thinks Luffy is weaker than Zoro, which would need to be true for Zoro to be able to beat Cracker.
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Hey hold up !?
Sanji and Zoro fought multiple times without a clear winner.
Damn after all these years I thought Zoro was stronger than Sanji Bogard finally has proof that they are both on the same level. An not only that If Sanji = Zoro and Zoro = Luffy. That means Sanji is close to yonkou level right now.
my god. I didn't expect that news coming in this thread. Great find Bogard.
(At least at one point in the series)
Sanji and Zoro fought multiple times without a clear winner.
Damn after all these years I thought Zoro was stronger than Sanji Bogard finally has proof that they are both on the same level. An not only that If Sanji = Zoro and Zoro = Luffy. That means Sanji is close to yonkou level right now.
my god. I didn't expect that news coming in this thread. Great find Bogard.
(At least at one point in the series)
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This is true. They were even at one point, so all of his arguments for Zoro also apply!
Flawed af.
Zoro is arguably > g2/g3 Luffy featwise and he hasn't gone all out.
That's why Zoro and Luffy is a topic of conversation. Him being equals with Luffy at one point only helps that. Doesn't apply to Sanji and Zoro.
Who cares about Sanji? He can be Gol D Roger level for all i care. He wasn't even the topic of my discussion, but of course the Sanji brigade couldn't help but bring him up. Only thing that interested me is the comparison between Luffy and Zoro in a thread referring to him, so the Sanji crap can remain in people's pants
Impossible to tell until we see Zoro going all out
Zoro doesn't need to be > Luffy to be > Cracker
Zoro is a swordsman and I can guarantee you that besides water obviously, that would be Crackers worst type of opponent.
People love to say Cracker > Luffy just because Luffy had Nami with him and had a comical fight.. did any one of us see Luffy use KKG on Cracker and fail to beat him?
Didn't think so.
Luffy > Cracker
Zoro is a swordsman and I can guarantee you that besides water obviously, that would be Crackers worst type of opponent.
People love to say Cracker > Luffy just because Luffy had Nami with him and had a comical fight.. did any one of us see Luffy use KKG on Cracker and fail to beat him?
Didn't think so.
Luffy > Cracker
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Not even gonna bother reading the rest of this bullshit. Actually not surprising that you're looking at "Luffy beat this person only because he had help? Then Luffy is clearly stronger than person!"
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You're just as oblivious as Toshi when it comes to sarcasm. If you don't understand that my precious post is ridiculing your own line of argumentation. Please don't try to lecture me about what I can and cannot say.
Because if you read carefully that post isn't about Sanji at all.
And your bias is showing again in this post where Luffy is allowed to be used as a benchmark in a Zoro thread. But if Sanji is used you get butthurt. Funny how that always works one way with people like you.
Also we don't even know what happens if Luffy would go all out, now do we. So based what we've seen about the two at the same point in time the only conclusion is that Luffy is in another league. If Zoro is that much stronger he should've finished the Dressrosa arc a bit sooner, while he was fighting the henchman of the boss Luffy was fighting.
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Yeah. Needed. Luffy only won by eating Cracker's biscuits, which he couldn't do if Nami didn't help him.