[Discussion] Yami Teach vs Vergo

[VongolaX]

Yeah, except Luffy couldn't toss around Oz like that either. You have to realize Nightmare Luffy equals Luffy+the power of a hundred shadows.

Luffy can't be>Luffy+the power of a hundred shadows, that math doesn't add up.
Nightmare Luffy>Luffy.

Moriah lost to Gear 3+Gear 2 Luffy, who is weaker than N. Luffy and Vergo, so Vergo would beat him too. Superior speed plus his monstrous hits would be too much for Moriah.

It doesn't matter if you think Nightmare Luffy<Normal Luffy because Vergo is still stronger than pre-skip Luffy anyways.

Never stated that normal luffy>>nightmare luffy

Normal luffy couldn't beat Moria

Gear 3 luffy was strong enough to K.O a giant and break Oz.

Nightmare luffy thrashed Oz, not break him.

So gear 3 is able to do that, with the addition gear 2 it takes his gear 3 strength one step higher.

Vergo is not beating that luffy.

May I remind you that you are comparing post timeskip Vergo to pre timeskip Moria?

Excluding that, Pre timeskip luffy also fought the Boa Sisters who have observation and armor Haki (well at least one of them does).

He overpowered their armors Haki with brute strength, same thing happened in the colleseum when the funk brothers when they overpowered that happo navy Haki.

Or the boxer with explosive power matching another happo navy's Haki with brute strength.

So gear 2 (marineford) luffy would may lose to luffy (maybe), but gear 2+3 luffy is beating Vergo off pure brute strength

 

[Punk Hazard]

Never stated that normal luffy>>nightmare luffy

Normal luffy couldn't beat Moria

Gear 3 luffy was strong enough to K.O a giant and break Oz.

Nightmare luffy thrashed Oz, not break him.

So gear 3 is able to do that, with the addition gear 2 it takes his gear 3 strength one step higher.

Vergo is not beating that luffy.

May I remind you that you are comparing post timeskip Vergo to pre timeskip Moria?

Excluding that, Pre timeskip luffy also fought the Boa Sisters who have observation and armor Haki (well at least one of them does).

He overpowered their armors Haki with brute strength, same thing happened in the colleseum when the funk brothers when they overpowered that happo navy Haki.

Or the boxer with explosive power matching another happo navy's Haki with brute strength.

So gear 2 (marineford) luffy would may lose to luffy (maybe), but gear 2+3 luffy is beating Vergo off pure brute strength

Vergo Haki feats>Boa sisters Haki feats. For one, they never even did Koka, so it's not like their Armament Haki is harder than Vergo's. Just because Luffy could hit them with brute strength, doesn't mean he can hit Vergo too.

Nothing indicates pre-skip Luffy can break Vergo's Haki.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Never stated that normal luffy>>nightmare luffy

Normal luffy couldn't beat Moria

Gear 3 luffy was strong enough to K.O a giant and break Oz.

Nightmare luffy thrashed Oz, not break him.

So gear 3 is able to do that, with the addition gear 2 it takes his gear 3 strength one step higher.

Vergo is not beating that luffy.

May I remind you that you are comparing post timeskip Vergo to pre timeskip Moria?

Excluding that, Pre timeskip luffy also fought the Boa Sisters who have observation and armor Haki (well at least one of them does).

He overpowered their armors Haki with brute strength, same thing happened in the colleseum when the funk brothers when they overpowered that happo navy Haki.

Or the boxer with explosive power matching another happo navy's Haki with brute strength.

So gear 2 (marineford) luffy would may lose to luffy (maybe), but gear 2+3 luffy is beating Vergo off pure brute strength

What? Are you saying an all out Pre TS Luffy>Vergo?

 

[VongolaX]

Vergo Haki feats>Boa sisters Haki feats. For one, they never even did Koka, so it's not like their Armament Haki is harder than Vergo's. Just because Luffy could hit them with brute strength, doesn't mean he can hit Vergo too.

Nothing indicates pre-skip Luffy can break Vergo's Haki.

I know the boa sisters Haki is weaker than Vergo, but the point is that brute strength can overpower Haki too.

Gear 3+2 luffy luffy crushed a island buster after beating Oz.

It would do the same for Vergo...

Let's not forget that Bartholomeo who has no Haki whatsoever beat a Vice admiral with low difficult.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I know the boa sisters Haki is weaker than Vergo, but the point is that brute strength can overpower Haki too.

Gear 3+2 luffy luffy crushed a island buster after beating Oz.

It would do the same for Vergo...

Let's not forget that Bartholomeo who has no Haki whatsoever beat a Vice admiral with low difficult.

Brute strength that Luffy lacks. Luffy beat Moriah because Moriah, while having the strength to split Thriller Bark, didn't have the durability to withstand Luffy's blows. Post-timeskip Vergo has stronger blows than Luffy does, especially when using Koka, so he too can crush Moriah, despite lacking the physical strength Moriah had.

Vergo has much higher durability feats than Moriah. Not even including Koka, Vergo's body was strong enough to not only withstand Sanji's hits, but also break a bone in Sanji's leg. This is the same Sanji who can survive the depths of tens of thousands of meters underwater, which could crush a submarine and solid steel. Vergo was able to withstand that and damage that. There's no way pre-skip Luffy is gonna be able to damage Vergo.