Yeah, hate to burst your bubble but when you're telling other people that the wikia is an unreliable source than you shouldn't use it either, because in this case the wikia is wrong.
Just google it. and to quote someone from a different discussion:
I told someone that the wikia is an unreliable source? I don't remember it :eww: well... doesn't matter. The person is the author who writes them.
About the main point, i.e: Luffy defeating Garp. First of all, the person fan mistranslated that man mistranslated that part. I also read it from there and I did searched about that after reading what BS happened. This was the answer. The person just mistranslated that part. I'll just quote the thing directly.
Akiji said:
Okay folks
You must be registered for see links
There is something about Spartan-style training.
"Garp a soumis Luffy à une éducation spartiate, afin d'en faire le meilleur élément de la marine." = " Garp submitted Luffy to a spartian education, so that he could become the best marine"
Nothing about Luffy can beat Garp here .
Now about "Garp: You dare to tell grandpa to "shut up", that's too much!!!
Luffy: Aaaaa... I'm sorry!!!
Caption: Having received spartan style training, Luffy can now win against Garp."
In french official translation :
"Même Luffy ne peut que s'écraser devant lui ! " =
"Garp: You dare to tell grandpa to "shut up", that's too much!!!
Luffy: Aaaaa... I'm sorry!!!
Caption : Even Luffy can't do a thing when in front of him"
Totally different,but i think the french version makes more sense
Edit. Oda write them. Take it like this--'Even the name of characters, whose names aren't revealed in manga are revealed in databooks (by Oda),, who can do that except Oda,, Oda lets somebody else change his manga?.'
Position doesn't always determine if the person has higher or lower strength than the other person(already explained). Besides this is already a weak-to-no argument to begin with.
You think captain>Right hand man, which I just proved wrong in case of Zoro and Luffy (even backup-ed by Oda). Even after that, you are saying this. Don't make me repeat the same stuff over and over. You are entitled to stick to your wrong opinion, i can't stop you from doing that, but that ain't gonna help you conclude anything here.
What implies that Zoro could beat Arlong? If Luffy was in that state he probably couldn't be able to beat Arlong but there's nothing there that implies Zoro's superiority considering that Zoro didn't beat Arlong.
This was Pre-Enies Lobby not to mention the desert fight was for comic relief and the fight in the town ended up with Nami oneshotting both. Doesn't really support that Zoro is equal to Luffy. Shanks and WB clashed, Mihawk and Vista clashed. Doesn't make Shanks=WB or that Mihawk=Vista.
This doesn't prove much. Sanji could've beaten Enel if he could touch him. The only thing Enel had going on for him was intangibility. He lost to pre-gears Luffy.
The fact that Kaku is a swordsman doesn't mean that he isn't physically strong. He trains his physical strength. When they left for the secret mission Kaku's Doriki was lower than Jyabura's but afterwards it was higher. Which means that Kaku does indeed train. Not to mention Kaku knows Rokushiki and received the same Rokushiki training as Lucci which requires immense physical strength. 20 Douriki isn't much. Lucci's was 4000 and Kaku's 2200.
How was Zoro supposed to fight Lucci? Zoro honestly stands no chance against Lucci. Zoro's speed and Durability were definately not enough to handle Lucci. Luffy has a rubber body which helps him tank blunt attacks. Zoro would've went down from those Rokyougans (he would've lost before Lucci could use them). Kaku and Jabra were rivals. Lucci was clearly miles above the duo.
Luffy went unconsious only because he thought the danger was over. He wasn't trying to remain consiousness anymore. Are you implying that Zoro wasn't trying to remain his consiousness? Luffy busted through Impel down, took Magellan's poison, Ivankov's treatment (twice), was imprisoned in the weird snow jail thing (don't remember the name) and fought in the war. Luffy's also a tank. Zoro's Durability is really the only category where he can be compared to Luffy.
What's there to say that he wouldn't have received the same exact treatment?
Your comparing a casual G2 Jet pistol (blunt force) to Zoro's Rengoku Oni Giri (Sword attack). Luffy oneshotted E.G Hody with Red Hawk.
This fight had nothing to do with Luffy's strength and shouldn't even be used as an argument considering that both can casually oneshot Monet.
That was made in 2007. Not to mention saying that they havet the same fighting power isn't saying that Zoro=Luffy. That statement roughly means that they were on the same level (back in 2007). The admirals have the same fighting power yet Akainu beat Kuzan.
Now before you start calling me some zoro fanboy, remember I'm a major Zoro fanboy.
Alright now I'll add most of the fights or things from which we can somehow compare Luffy and Zoro. If you think something's not there, do point out.
1. Arlong park
Zoro couldn't stand up to Arlong only because he received a wound from Mihawk which would leave a normal person incapable to move for six months, yet Zoro was fighting in that condition and defeated Hatchan. If Luffy was in that state, he would have also lost to Arlong too. So based on this feat, you can't say that Zoro is weaker than Luffy.
2. Whiskey Peak
Luffy vs. Zoro: They clashed 2 times head on and both times it was inconclusive implying both are equal. Nothing more, nothing less.
3. Skypiea
Now, Zoro only lost to Enel because he didn't have Haki at that time, Make the zoro as he was in Skypiea immune to Electric current and that he could touch Enel, he would have defeated Enel too. Now you may say that.. what's the deal? Luffy defeated Enel at that point(even when he was weak compared to as he is now), but remember, it was only due to the fact that Luffy was "Enel's weakness". This thing is only applicable for Enel. Luffy isn't Zoro's weakness!. Although the most effective thing against Luffy is a move that cuts him and well Zoro is a Master Swordsman.
You see, sometimes you are better against one person yet weak against another.
Take for example, Alabasta Luffy vs. Alabasta Daz Bones is the same situation. If Luffy had fought fought Daz back in Alabasta, he would have clearly lost. Only Zoro was the person who could fight Daz because Daz has the ability to make blades on his body. There is no way Alabasta Luffy could have countered that. But this does not mean that Zoro is stronger than Luffy, same in the case of Luffy and Enel.
4. Enies Lobby
Now Luffy fought the most strongest, i.e; Lucci and Zoro the second strongest, Kaku.
But the thing is that Zoro struggled way less than Luffy did against Lucci.
First make one thing clear Kaku is considerably stronger than Jyabura,, it's not like they are very close because there was a difference of only 20 doriki.
You must be registered for see images
Now why is that? Its because Doriki is the measurement of physical strength only. It didn't count the fact that Kaku was a Swordsman too.
So we can't measure the exact power of Kaku solely by his doriki, surely its still low than Lucci but considerably above than Jyabura.
So if you people are thinking that if Lucci is 100 so Kaku is 55, based on doriki, then it is wrong.
Now see this. What state is in Luffy after he fought Lucci.
You must be registered for see images
and What of Zoro, still fighting.
You must be registered for see images
What I want to say is that, Zoro would've also ended like Luffy had he fought Lucci. And vice versa, if Luffy had fought Kaku, he would have been moving around like Zoro was.
We can clearly see that Luffy struggled waay more than Zoro, which clearly means that by fighting a stronger opponent, it doesn't prove that he is stronger than Zoro. If Luffy were in the same state as Zoro was after fighting Lucci, then I would have accepted that he is stronger than Zoro, but we see otherwise.
5. Thriller Bark
Luffy wouldn't have been able to turn the tables if he hadn't taken in 100 shadows. Now you may again say that still it was Luffy... But in the match Luffy vs. Zoro, it is insignificant because we won't count 100 shadows with Luffy.
P.S, now this time, in terms of endurance, we got a clear comparison too,
What Luffy tanked(his total fatigue/pain): Fight with Moria+Pain of taking in 100 shadows+Fight with Oars+some beating from 1000 shadow Moria. = Unconcious Luffy at the spot
Now what Zoro tanked: Fight and some beating from Oars+Ryuma fight+Fight with Kuma+(Fight with Moria+Pain of taking in 100 shadows+Fight with Oars+some beating from 1000 shadow Moria) = Concious Zoro after that. He did got unconcious a little later but still he was capable enough to keep his senses together after all that for sometime. If Luffy lost his senses from the pain he endured, giving him Zoro's at that time would've killed him. This thing ultimately puts Zoro above Luffy in terms of Endurance.
@ Sabaody Archipelago
Fight with Kuma and later with an Admiral isn't really comparable because both got stomped easily, though Zoro was already a little injured and some his wounds opened in fight with Pacifista and later Kizaru attacked him first before Kuma, so he couldn't stand up to Kuma like Luffy did.
6. Fishman Island Arc
Luffy delieved a gear second punch to Hyouzou and nothing happened.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
While Zoro one shotted a Transformed Hyouzou.
He also one shotted a non transformed Hody underwater, though this feat is incomparable as that(transformed) version of Hody never fought Zoro.
7. Punk Hazard
Luffy had trouble with Monet. I'm not saying that he couldn't have beat her but still he had trouble with her snow attacks but Zoro never had any.
@One Piece Databook Red
In databook red, Zoro is said equal to Luffy and stronger than Sanji.
scanned pages are in French.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
The word "Puissance" in French means "power" "strenght/might"
6/6 For Zoro and Luffy (Same). 5/6 For Sanji.
@ One Piece Databook Yellow
There's one more thing I would like to add. Thanks to TBogard for reminding me lol
Again In the databook One Piece Yellow: Grand Element. Oda himself said that Zoro and Luffy has the same high fighting power. This proves that Zoro is not weaker than Luffy as the common idea goes.
You must be registered for see images
Absolute trust in the captain!!
Follow the captain's orders without hesitation - this is the attitude that Zoro always has, because he has faith in Luffy from the bottom of his heart! He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy and when the need arises, he will be the first person to charge forth. Even though he has a devil-like fighting capability, he recognizes Luffy's position as the captain. Moreover, even when Luffy makes the wrong decision, he will give his best to rectify the mistake and never complains. This is Zoro's attitude.
And arguments like Luffy is stronger because he's going to be the next Pirate king/is captain/more hype/always fight the strongest etc aren't really helpful.
We already had two men equivalent to the previous pirate king and if Luffy is fighting the strongest opponent and stealing the highlight, nothing can be done about that. You gotta give the spotlight to the main character.
So yeah, if you think there's something wrong with it, then do tell.
Before putting up and argument, please be sure to read the whole thread as it is possible that the arguments you are going to put have already been answered. If you are not satisfied with them even after that, be sure to point out why. Ty
