[Discussion] Why you say Vergo is the 2nd strongest DD member?

[Love Cook]

Lol so elite is now the highest right?

So best means the highest or strongest?

Vergo who you think is stronger than the three highest doesn't even have a seat, and now he's somehow above everyone else?

Go home :|

I asked you to answer my question but you neglected it and you're still posting your crap arguments. I will copy it again and this time you will explain me how and why the following is possible if Pica is stronger.

I already closed the thread in post 31, yet you're wasting your time here.

You say he didn't even have a seat. That's exactly why he is not on that level.

Why was Vergo set out by Doflamingo to retrieve Law to the heart seat by force ?

Doflamingo and Vergo expected to stomp Law if he would get out of control. Meaning that is what Doflamingo thinks a card seat is worth against Vergo.

Let's compare some feats:

Pica hasn't shown any haki
Pica hasn't been any real threat
Pica has been playing a game of hide and seek instead of going on the attack like Vergo
Pica is made out of mere stone while Vergo was like a mass of steel, even without his haki.
Pica is sluggish as hell while Vergo can use soru and skywalk.
Just the air movement of Vergo's swing with his bamboo stick is enough to bend thick metal doors

There is no way that Pica is anywhere near Vergo.

And this is how the fight would go down:

Vergo one on one against Pica's real body would be a massacre.

If we give Pica advantage of the home terrain and let him form a giant, he would never be able to hit Vergo who uses Soru. Vergo would break down statue Pica just like Luffy, Zoro, Don Chinjao and the king of Prodence did. It's not even impressive anymore at this point who all managed to break him.

Sanji got beaten in his own game of kicking while that isn't Vergo's main fighting style.
Smoker got beaten in a stick fight and his kairoseki jutte broke
Law was beaten inside his room a couple of times.

Everything indicates that Vergo was far superior than all other executives under Doflamingo.

Now just bow, present your ass, say thank you for the rape and leave the thread.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol so elite is now the highest right?

So best means the highest or strongest?

Vergo who you think is stronger than the three highest doesn't even have a seat, and now he's somehow above everyone else?

Go home :|

I never commented on strength actually before YOU started about it. I was talking about rank within the family. My entire point was that their rank does not equate to strength, and you believed they did because you think Executive Officer is a higher rank than an elite officer. This entire time, I haven't been saying that Vergo's rank makes him just as strong as them, or stronger than them, or vice versa, because their ranks within the family are on equal level. YOU are the only one who thinks that Vergo vs an Executive is determined by their rank.

Corazon was the highest executive, after that peeka was taken up next in line.

Vergo is a subordinate, he doesn't have a high enough rank to own his own army.

So by position Corazon is the strongest

Vergo and Corazon's positions were on equal standing.

Yes. There is nothing higher than elite. Highest officer is a synonym for elite officer. You can have multiple officers with the rank of elite/highest officer.

Well, yes, best would mean the strongest. If you're the best fighter, there is no one greater than you, so you are the strongest. Vergo is among the strongest on the officers, meaning when it comes to the tiers of the officers, he's a member of the highest tier, along with the Executives.

Vergo is above everyone with the rank of just officer. Elite means best, as you've said too. Best means better than the rest. Four people share the title of the best officers: Vergo and the three Executives.

I think your IQ drops every time you try to do what passes off as thinking for you.

 

[Zeta42]

Vergo would crap on Pica with that Haki of his. Oh, and he can also use Geppou, so he doesn't have to stay on the ground, so Pica doesn't even have an advantage against him.

Basically, Vergo>any other subordinate of Doflamingo because Haki.

 

[A v i]

You mean like how Buggy said he was gonna kill Whitebeard? Like how Enel said he'd defeat Luffy? Like how Ace said he's gonna kill Teach?

In those cases they have no idea about how strong their opponents are where as an admiral is a different case. I don't think people of Jokers crew are not aware of what an admiral can do. At the very least Joker knew about what it means to face an admiral yet he didn't made any statement that contradicts Pica's words. I am not saying that he can beat them all but he is strong enough to have confident about taking on an admiral and his captain didn't said anything negatively regarding his claim means that even joker thinks that he's a capable opponent.

Yes,I know that he's a fodder against an admiral.

OT: I agree with what bogard said.

 

[Punk Hazard]

In those cases they have no idea about how strong their opponents are where as an admiral is a different case. I don't think people of Jokers crew are not aware of what an admiral can do. At the very least Joker knew about what it means to face an admiral yet he didn't made any statement that contradicts Pica's words. I am not saying that he can beat them all but he is strong enough to have confident about taking on an admiral and his captain didn't said anything negatively regarding his claim means that even joker thinks that he's a capable opponent.

Yes,I know that he's a fodder against an admiral.

OT: I agree with what bogard said.

Not really. Fujitora is a new Admiral, Pica has no idea what the full extent of his power is. Just because a character said he can beat someone, that doesn't mean they can. Pica can just be arrogant and stupid, which he probably is.

 

[Bogard]

Well considering his ability, one can understand why he felt so overconfident in himself. Without knowledge beforehand, he is practically invincible and is a mobile golem with town level destruction and total control of the rock environment. Viola seemed to fear him even more than Doflamingo. Hell Fujitora himself fled away from him. I think it's with knowledge that it's easier to handle Pica

 

[SSS12]

It's far from clear who's stronger, Pica or Vergo.
People who say Vergo is stronger say so because he dominated the fight against Sanji, but he certainly didn't 'destroy' Sanji like some are saying here. He was pushing around a weakened Law too. Vergo showed impressive haki too. But his haki wasn't enough to defeat Sanji in that short scuffle. And from the looks of things, the gap between Sanji and Luffy is considerable now. Still hard exactly pinpoint Zoro's level within that gap since we have not seen his complete power nor him being pressured in a way to gauge his level. But Zoro is definitely > Sanji and a BH specialist. He would definitely fare better against Vergo. But will it be enough to take down Vergo? Just because Sanji lost doesn't mean Zoro will too. The gap between could have easily widened between Zoro and Sanji which is not unlikely at all. Sanji could get a powerup narrow this gap somewhat the next time he's seen in a fight.

Now Pica is considered stronger because of his powerful DF and his confidence in himself to take care of both pirates and marines alike on the island, including VAs and an admiral. Undoubtedly an overestimation, it can't be all hot air since Doflamingo didn't object to this. Maybe he could hold them off for a while? Some also say that because Zoro is fighting Pica he must be no. 2. Well, Vergo isn't on the island (or any island for that matter) so this can't be a reason at all.

What makes it even harder to determine who's stronger is that Pica seems to rely on brute strength and his DF. Vergo seems to rely on BH and Rokushiki. Completely different battle styles. Why not just wait and see more of Pica's powers before deciding who's stronger? Although I fear that most people here are already strongly opinionated and wouldn't change their mind because of their love/hate of certain characters.

 

[Bogard]

It's far from clear who's stronger, Pica or Vergo.
People who say Vergo is stronger say so because he dominated the fight against Sanji, but he certainly didn't 'destroy' Sanji like some are saying here. He was pushing around a weakened Law too. Vergo showed impressive haki too. But his haki wasn't enough to defeat Sanji in that short scuffle. And from the looks of things, the gap between Sanji and Luffy is considerable now. Still hard exactly pinpoint Zoro's level within that gap since we have not seen his complete power nor him being pressured in a way to gauge his level. But Zoro is definitely > Sanji and a BH specialist. He would definitely fare better against Vergo. But will it be enough to take down Vergo? Just because Sanji lost doesn't mean Zoro will too. The gap between could have easily widened between Zoro and Sanji which is not unlikely at all. Sanji could get a powerup narrow this gap somewhat the next time he's seen in a fight.

Now Pica is considered stronger because of his powerful DF and his confidence in himself to take care of both pirates and marines alike on the island, including VAs and an admiral. Undoubtedly an overestimation, it can't be all hot air since Doflamingo didn't object to this. Maybe he could hold them off for a while? Some also say that because Zoro is fighting Pica he must be no. 2. Well, Vergo isn't on the island (or any island for that matter) so this can't be a reason at all.

What makes it even harder to determine who's stronger is that Pica seems to rely on brute strength and his DF. Vergo seems to rely on BH and Rokushiki. Completely different battle styles. Why not just wait and see more of Pica's powers before deciding who's stronger? Although I fear that most people here are already strongly opinionated and wouldn't change their mind because of their love/hate of certain characters.

Nice post. I also said that as it stands, it's impossible to say who is stronger than who. Those who really think Pica is stronger or vice-versa are just fooling themselves. Though i disagree with the Luffy widening the gap with Sanji at least it's not visible by feats. To be fair, everyone in the M3 looked weak post-skip besides Zoro. I don't doubt though that Luffy will have his feats against Doflamingo when bloodlusted

 

[SSS12]

Nice post. I also said that as it stands, it's impossible to say who is stronger than who. Those who really think Pica is stronger or vice-versa are just fooling themselves. Though i disagree with the Luffy widening the gap with Sanji at least it's not visible by feats. To be fair, everyone in the M3 looked weak post-skip besides Zoro. I don't doubt though that Luffy will have his feats against Doflamingo when bloodlusted

You may be right about Sanji and Luffy. But what makes me say that is that if Luffy and Sanji are both unarmed combatants and Luffy just seems so much more of a complete fighter than Sanji. Luffy's pretty neat at using any haki and has all range attacks. Sanji hardly has any mid-long range attacks and his haki seems to need more work. His specialty OH has no feats and Sanji has been defeated or overwhelmed a few times already post TS without showing any even half decent haki feats. He just seems to be falling behind in M3. Zoro may not have too many haki feats, but he hasn't been defeated like Sanji has. But like I said, I think Sanji will get stronger in the next fight we see him.

 

[Bogard]

You may be right about Sanji and Luffy. But what makes me say that is that if Luffy and Sanji are both unarmed combatants and Luffy just seems so much more of a complete fighter than Sanji. Luffy's pretty neat at using any haki and has all range attacks. Sanji hardly has any mid-long range attacks and his haki seems to need more work. His specialty OH has no feats and Sanji has been defeated or overwhelmed a few times already post TS without showing any even half decent haki feats. He just seems to be falling behind in M3. Zoro may not have too many haki feats, but he hasn't been defeated like Sanji has. But like I said, I think Sanji will get stronger in the next fight we see him.

I was talking in terms of performance. As it stands, Luffy struggles to defeat fodders(Hyouzou, Caesar) needing a lot of gear 3 attacks to still fail to knock Caesar down. Luffy didn't fare better against Doflamingo than Sanji at all either despite clashing with him 2 times. Zoro at least had a better portrayal against Fujitora.

And while displaying armament, a fodder's bite was enough to break through his haki, so even his busoshoku doesn't seem strong. On the other side Zoro's armament shield for example could block Hyouzou's swords despite him being capable to cut through steel like butter and also is capable to incorporate armament out of the thin air. Observation is maybe the only haki where Luffy stands out and eventhen there have been situations like against Doflamingo's clone where Luffy seemed dumbfounded

But it's exactly like Zoro said. Luffy is just too goofy and lacks concentration. When Luffy will be bloodlusted i think it's where we will see his real strength

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol so elite is now the highest right?

So best means the highest or strongest?

Vergo who you think is stronger than the three highest doesn't even have a seat, and now he's somehow above everyone else?

Go home :|

You still think Vergo is below the rank of Executive, Varia?

 

[My Username]

You still think Vergo is below the rank of Executive, Varia?

But Pica>Vergo

 

[Punk Hazard]

But Pica>Vergo

1. That wasn't the question
2. Vergo would beat Pica.

 

[NarutoBmx33]

1. That wasn't the question
2. Vergo would beat Pica.

I would normally disagree, but after finding out today that Vergo was the previous Heart, I agree.

 

[Bogard]

I would normally disagree, but after finding out today that Vergo was the previous Heart, I agree.

How does today's chapter change anything? We already knew they had the same rank. Only difference is that we never knew why Vergo wasn't a seat, something confirmed today that it's because he was out in the marine. Though not to say Vergo can't be stronger but i feel it's too early to have a definite conclusion. It's not like Pica is down yet(or any other seat by the matter). We've yet to see all what he has to offer. If anything todays' chapter made me realise how close in portrayal they actually are. I'll see by the end of this arc anyway

 

[NarutoBmx33]

How does today's chapter change anything? We already knew they had the same rank. Only difference is that we never knew why Vergo wasn't a seat, something confirmed today that it's because he was out in the marine. Though not to say Vergo can't be stronger but i feel it's too early to have a definite conclusion. It's not like Pica is down yet(or any other seat by the matter). We've yet to see all what he has to offer. If anything todays' chapter made me realise how close in portrayal they actually are. I'll see by the end of this arc anyway

I guess you're right, I'll make the final decisive opinion once Zoro's fight is over.

 

[TheHokage]

Hahaha people still trying to argue this after this week's chapter.

Vergo confirmed as one of the seats previously which was the only argument people had to try make Pica seem stronger. Vergo was picked to do this mission...why? Out of all the other seats why was Vergo chosen...simple because he's the strongest. Just buck up Pica and Zoro fanboy's Vergo shits on Pica.

 

[A v i]

Hahaha people still trying to argue this after this week's chapter.

Vergo confirmed as one of the seats previously which was the only argument people had to try make Pica seem stronger. Vergo was picked to do this mission...why? Out of all the other seats why was Vergo chosen...simple because he's the strongest. Just buck up Pica and Zoro fanboy's Vergo shits on Pica.

Lmao, from where did u pulled this conclusion? Who said that only strong people can be sent for out side missions? hmm

The best todays chapter can prove is that he's one of 4 seats which means that he's the same as other 3 which was already established in manga.

 

[Bogard]

Hahaha people still trying to argue this after this week's chapter.

Vergo confirmed as one of the seats previously which was the only argument people had to try make Pica seem stronger. Vergo was picked to do this mission...why? Out of all the other seats why was Vergo chosen...simple because he's the strongest. Just buck up Pica and Zoro fanboy's Vergo shits on Pica.

Or he was sent there because he was a better spy than the rest. Roccinante failed in his filiature for example because he couldn't hide his identity well enough. Vergo had a great capacity to deceive the marines and eventhen he was fearing Smoker could find him. When you're spy it's more a mind game rather than actual strength or skill that is required the most. Before this chapter i already said that considering they had the same rank, i don't know who is stronger. My opinion never changed but i'm not forcing you to have yours. I just said that it's too early at this point to judge at least for me. If by the end Pica shows nothing new, i'd gladly accept Vergo's superiority, although shiting would be pushing it considering his capacity

 

[TheHokage]

Lmao, from where did u pulled this conclusion? Who said that only strong people can be sent for out side missions? hmm

The best todays chapter can prove is that he's one of 4 seats which means that he's the same as other 3 which was already established in manga.

Vergo is far more established if the other seats were as strong as him why didn't they become the spies...not surprised you replied though...

Or he was sent there because he was a better spy than the rest. Roccinante failed in his filiature for example because he couldn't hide his identity well enough. Vergo had a great capacity to deceive the marines and eventhen he was fearing Smoker could find him. When you're spy it's more a mind game rather than actual strength or skill that is required the most. Before this chapter i already said that considering they had the same rank, i don't know who is stronger. My opinion never changed but i'm not forcing you to have yours. I just said that it's too early at this point to judge at least for me. If by the end Pica shows nothing new, i'd gladly accept Vergo's superiority, although shiting would be pushing it considering his capacity

So basically what you said here was Vergo>Pica until Pica shows more...thanks I knew that.