Why Naruto and Hashirama are greater leaders

Douryoku

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Was it not Hashirama who saw that in order to stop the war people will need to form an alliance, which will ulitmatly lead to an cycle, hence stopping the wars.. Was it not Hashirama who gathered the clans? Oh yes it was Hashirama.

All you did was post some irrelevant feats, is Hashirama not a goody two-shoes who would make friends with anyone? Is he not the same person who foolishly trusted Uchiha Madara and consequently caused the near-destruction of his own village, had he lost? Hashirama knows little of politics, he is no genius.

Honestly, even though he lead the village well—something I shan't deny—if you actually understood what Machiavelli was trying to get across, you would comprehend that Hashirama is not perfect according to Machiavelli's political theory; he doesn't embody the adequate qualities. As others have mentioned, Hashirama was chiefly able to maintain the welfare of Konohagakure due to his power, not his intellect. Tobirama is somebody who better embodies Machiavelli's archetypal leader.​
 
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i like how people say hashirama was a horrible leader yet the other leaders praised and adopted konoha shinobi system during hashirama's reign
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kunde

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Great leader need not be a smartest person on the earth Lol, a person with great ideals, prowess should do just fine...... what hashirama started was carried on by the following hokages, tobirama screwed it up a little bit by making uchiha's police force of the village which eventually led to coup de tat on the village, it wasn't hashirama's fault in the first place, hashirama succeeded in making world a better place(atleast he stopped the war) and thats what a person with a great power should do.
 

Xāvî1

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Cause they both have TNJ, Powerful Will, Powerful Chakra and most important of all Never Give up.
 

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Great leader need not be a smartest person on the earth Lol, a person with great ideals, prowess should do just fine...... what hashirama started was carried on by the following hokages, tobirama screwed it up a little bit by making uchiha's police force of the village which eventually led to coup de tat on the village, it wasn't hashirama's fault in the first place, hashirama succeeded in making world a better place(atleast he stopped the war) and thats what a person with a great power should do.

exactly tobirama indirectly at fault for most of the horrible things that happen.
 

slaton02

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I wouldn't want a leader that would kill himself for the enemy.That's just dumbassary right there lol I would want a leader like Tobirama or 3rd Raikage those are leaders. Someone that gives up there life to save there people, unlike Hashirama. They know how to run a village

TBH I feel like Kishi is forcing Hashirama's personality to be like Naruto's.
 
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takiyacrowz

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hashi is shitty leader who's mistakes lead to 4 shinobi world wars
 

take it easy

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Hashirama had Tobirama and Naruto has Shikamaru, Kakashi, Sasuke etc. So out of all the potential leaders I would say that with friends and advisers they are good leaders, but as individual Kakashi is probably the best.
sasuke has political smart ?.. naruto need advisors only because hes too young and unexperienced in things like village money.
 

Oblivionx

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it's because they are both idiots....! :hooray:
 

Smd

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didnt have to read the thread to know that naruto is nothing compared to hashirama.

Hashirama achieved greatness on his own.

He didnt need the strongest Bijuu to fuel him and keep him alive

thread/
 

KingHashirama

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Lmao @ people acting like Tobirama or others wouldn't need advisers. I'm done.





... Do you really expect them to shake hands seriosly ? I mean , Hashirama does not hate Madara , who is destroying the world , like Sasuke's and Naruto's case , when Sasuke said he will destroy Konoha , and Naruto didn't get angry , but said " You will die with me " .

What punishment ? Obito can easily escape all punishments , as I said , Naruto is way too soft .

R.I.P English .

True , but Obito was the one who made Naruto suffer . If I was in Naruto's place , I would have killed Obito already .
Guess what.. they did shake hands seriously. Hashirama does not hate, why should he? Does he like him? no. Hate is pointless.. Hate ruins countries.. it ruins families. Because Naruto knew they would be equals..

How can Obito escape all punishments? What part of him accepting his punishments did you not understand?

Then you are a simple child, who does not understand what "setting examples" means.

As Iroh said in Avatar the last airbender, "If I were to face the firelord, the world will only remember it as a brother snatching power from the other." They needed to set examples..

All you did was post some irrelevant feats, is Hashirama not a goody two-shoes who would make friends with anyone? Is he not the same person who foolishly trusted Uchiha Madara and consequently caused the near-destruction of his own village, had he lost? Hashirama knows little of politics, he is no genius.

Honestly, even though he lead the village well—something I shan't deny—if you actually understood what Machiavelli was trying to get across, you would comprehend that Hashirama is not perfect according to Machiavelli's political theory; he doesn't embody the adequate qualities. As others have mentioned, Hashirama was chiefly able to maintain the welfare of Konohagakure due to his power, not his intellect. Tobirama is somebody who better embodies Machiavelli's archetypal leader.​
Goodt two-shoes.. yes he is. Because that is how a king should be. However, when did he foolishly trust Madara? Please show me this. You are claiming he did foolishly.. so show me how it was foolishly.. cause the manga literally sh*t on your statement about him doing it foolishly..

No Miachiavelli's political theory is that he supports that a person should be feared more than loved. Hashirama was both of those things. His intellect was the thing that led to the creation of the village.. his intellect is the thing that lead to the creation of the infrastructure that Tobirama established. The academy that Tobirama established.. whose idea was it? HAshirama... lmao.

Sorry sir, Tobirama was neither feared or loved.

Try to read the prince in a whole context. Miachiavelli emphasis the leader having both qualities that he mentions , and then says a specific one is better than the other.

I wouldn't want a leader that would kill himself for the enemy.That's just dumbassary right there lol I would want a leader like Tobirama or 3rd Raikage those are leaders. Someone that gives up there life to save there people, unlike Hashirama. They know how to run a village

TBH I feel like Kishi is forcing Hashirama's personality to be like Naruto's.
Was he killing himself for Madara? Or for the unification of both of the clans, so the war would stop.. tell me. Stating things blindly without reading and understanding it properly leads to misunderstandings.
 
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saw2097

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A lot of people have forgotten a great deal of the manga:

1. The Uchiha Clan chose Hashirama over their own leader, one of the most arrogant clans backed the leader of their rival clan.

2. Hashi wasn't going to kill himself for his friend, he was going to kill himself to bring peace to two warring clans.

3. Intelligence isn't a requirement for leadership, being a leader means being the guy that can keep the team from falling apart, something both Hashirama and Naruto have accomplished.

4. Tobirama was not a better leader, while he had good intentions, his actions are partly what led to the Uchiha clan's attempt at a Coup. Hashirama warned Tobirama about this.

5. Tobirama openly said Naruto would be a great Hokage.
 

KingHashirama

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A lot of people have forgotten a great deal of the manga:

1. The Uchiha Clan chose Hashirama over their own leader, one of the most arrogant clans backed the leader of their rival clan.

2. Hashi wasn't going to kill himself for his friend, he was going to kill himself to bring peace to two warring clans.

3. Intelligence isn't a requirement for leadership, being a leader means being the guy that can keep the team from falling apart, something both Hashirama and Naruto have accomplished.

4. Tobirama was not a better leader, while he had good intentions, his actions are partly what led to the Uchiha clan's attempt at a Coup. Hashirama warned Tobirama about this.

5. Tobirama openly said Naruto would be a great Hokage.

nicely said, not only that people forget that him getting picked as the hokage by others is the sign of his intelligence lol. No one is gonna follow an idiot.
 
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