In overall power, Naruto is currently stronger but if it were to come to an actual battle, Naruto would lose to Hashirama's ability to suppress the Kyuubi. Even if Naruto is fast, Hashirama could pretty much use Mokuton on the entire surrounding area to prevent Naruto from fleeing. It could be a giant sphere with Naruto inside of it.
Ofcourse, Naruto wouldn't just stand there while it happens. If Hashirama could grow Mokuton from any surface then would that mean he could pretty much trap Naruto on the spot right below Naruto's feet? Naruto is speed, not FTG.
I'm not sure how Hashirama suppresses the Kyuubi's chakra but if it just involves for the wood to make contact with it, then he could grow the wood right below Naruto's feet and suppress Kurama's chakra. It could be that Mokuton is not even needed to suppress Kurama but Yamato was able to suppress chakra via Mokuton from Kisame as well when they were about to interrogate him. I believe that Mokuton itself suppresses chakra while it's in contact with someone or something that contains chakra.
which is faster growing trees as fast as madara has done during his fight or the speed naruto showed us that was able to block 5 launched tailed beast bombs in an instant
tell me which is faster
WS or BM
that is the question
obviously BM naruto could jump into air and TBB hashirama
he could move faster than any technique hashirama can preform
thats fact when it comes to speed naruto wins every time (dont bring up FTG)
No doubt Hashirama was very powerful.. but the only reason he was able to wrist control of kurama from madara was because madara was controlling kurama against his will, all Hashi did was release kurama from madara's control (probably same as what minato did with tobi). So naturally when kurama wasn't under madar's control anymore,so does he stops bieng madara's weapon. But in Naruto's case, he is not controlling kurama, in fact he is voluntarily helping naruto.. so basically there's nothing Hashi can do about kurama bieng on naruto's side. And so it goes to show that against hashirama, naruto can still use his Km and Bm mode...
Excellent Thread; Everything Makes Sense. I Can't Believe That Many People Feel That KM Naruto Could Surpass Hashirama ... Geez, Stop The Madness. Drop Kurama And Naruto Loses A Majority Of His Chakra, Stamina, & Power - Heck, He Wouldn't Even Be Able To Use Kage Bunshin As Recklessly As He Did During Part I Of The Series, Let Alone His Other More Powerful Techniques (i.e. Rasenshuriken).
And sasuke without sharingan is fodder. your point? you act like naruto was handed everything and didnt have to work for it when sasuke was the one who was handed everything. damn naruto haters
Gonna disagree, Madara had used mokuton against Naruto and look what good it did him. Hashi would not get anywhere close to Naruto do to his speed and Naruto's TBB would demolish him and his mokuton. Also due to Naruto's sensor abilities now I doubt Bringer of Darkness would be as effective either.
which is faster growing trees as fast as madara has done during his fight or the speed naruto showed us that was able to block 5 launched tailed beast bombs in an instant
tell me which is faster
WS or BM
that is the question
obviously BM naruto could jump into air and TBB hashirama
he could move faster than any technique hashirama can preform
thats fact when it comes to speed naruto wins every time (dont bring up FTG)
That's true but what I was trying to point out is that if the way Hashirama suppresses chakra is by touching others with his wood. Then he could just grow it below Naruto's feet not to grab him, but to touch him first to suppress his chakra and then to wrap around him.
If Naruto is able to sense wood style then I would agree with you. He could just sense it growing below his feet and jump out of the way and TBB him. Naruto is able to sense malice like Mito. That's why i'm unsure whether or not he would sense a piece of wood growing out of the ground in attempt to just touch him since Hashirama isn't necessarily evil.
I'm also wondering whether by sensing malice, Naruto is just able to sense the presence of someone evil or if he could also sense incoming attacks and techniques.
Oh I see. In that case, perhaps Hashirama might win sometimes but Naruto would be able to win as much as well. Since it seems like setting that technique up would first require to seize Naruto, that would prove to be difficult since his normal Mokuton wouldn't be surpressing him but rather be trying to restrain him first. Naruto's speed should be able to avoid being restrained by wood style while at the same time, he would be trying to land a hit on Hashirama by either blitzing him, or TBB if he gets the chance. Now I think that Naruto has better odds of winning if that's the only way that Hashirama could suppress Kyuubi's chakra.
I didn't do anything such thing. I only countered your argument.
I hope you are not implying my being a mod is main factor here. :mugi:
I wonder if you remember that Naruto has sage mode to fall back upon. And he made shadow clones to save Iruka first time without Kurama's chakra. He has inheirted a large chakra pool from his Uzumaki side as well.
Yep. Naruto has a counter to bringer of darkness genjutsu if he can sense chakra in Sage mode. If he is able to retain kyuubi chakra and his own power disbalances the hashirama's tech somehow( like in Zetsu and Yamato) that's an extra. Then genjutsu can be broken by Kurama or he can still be sensed and spotted.
People forget that bringer of Darkness is more deadly for someone like Madara whose techs depended on his eyesight for the most part.
There can be more arguments for and against but since no one is actually putting them forth..
It's funny that how threads keep on going when the purpose of the ortiginal post (and original claim that Hashirama> Naruto in all circumstances) was defeated when the OP accepted that he had no surity.
I find it funny as well. The thread creator has at several times admitted that his original post was wrong, but whenever someone new posts he goes back in defense of it, completely forgetting or just neglecting all the arguments that have proved him wrong.
And sasuke without sharingan is fodder. your point? you act like naruto was handed everything and didnt have to work for it when sasuke was the one who was handed everything. damn naruto haters
Yeah but having Kurama was a gift -.- you can't compare sasuke without sharingan because that was passed down from the older son of the SO6P
If Naruto didn't have Kurama THEN him and sasuke would be equal because then all he would have is the younger son of the SO6P body.
wait, i know that hashirama has like clontrol over kurama, but naruto himself has complete control and sync with kurama, so i dont know if hashirama can just render the kyuubi useless.
I know how strong shodaime is and stuff, but i dont get how kurama can be just taken away like tht
people before could disable the contact with the kyuubi before because he had no control over it and it was just like a mass of power. Getting rid of kurama is like getting rid of naruto in a sense as they are 'one.'
i am not sure if that makes sense but yeah, that is how i see it
Yeah but having Kurama was a gift -.- you can't compare sasuke without sharingan because that was passed down from the older son of the SO6P
If Naruto didn't have Kurama THEN him and sasuke would be equal because then all he would have is the younger son of the SO6P body.
without kurama naruto would be younger son but now he is SO6P himself
and dont think he was gifted its like passed dowm from mother to son with the help of his father...
without sharingan sasuke would be nowhere to where naruto would be without kurama
yeah but he's not just stating his opinion the title of the thread is why Hashirama > BM Naruto. Also I still don't think the op has been proven wrong. NaruKurama has HALF the chakra that Kurama had when first fighting Hashirama. Uhh... pretty sure that makes a difference.
and dont think he was gifted its like passed dowm from mother to son
OK so, I've seen some people claiming BM Naruto surpasses all other Hokage's. This is possibly true except for when it comes to the 1st Hokage. BM Naruto cannot defeat Hashirama Senju. This is why:
'Hashirama Senju is considered by many as the most powerful shinobi of his time. He was greatly respected by most shinobi during his lifetime, such that Tobi claimed Hashirama was the one person whom he respected the most as well as detested. His prowess and abilities were so great that he was able to not only fight on equal footing with Madara Uchiha despite his power of Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan and having the Nine-Tailed Demon Fox at his side, but even gained victory in the end and survived the battle.'
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Hashirama did not use Kurama against Madara at ANY POINT in the battle. He simply wrestled it away from Madara and his wife sealed it inside of her. People think she then actively aided him in battle; no, she aided him because the 9 tails was locked away and couldn't be use by Madara. SIMPLE.
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Hashirama won against EMS Madara who had Kurama under his control. Dont forget this is Kurama with double the chakra (Yin chakra not sealed at the time). Hashirama controlled 7 tailed beasts at a point in time. 7. Base Naruto (no Kurama basically)< Madara. If Hashirama won, how on earth would Naruto beat him?
Hashirama can just suppress Kurama's chakra and a major source of Naruto's stamina and power is no longer available to him. Hence, BM and KM are rendered useless. Remember that necklace Tsunade passed down to Naruto which could control his Kyuubi chakra? Are you forgetting where it came from? Able to supress Kyuubi's chakra and look how small it is:
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Yamato was able to restrain 4 tailed Naruto with his Wood Release/Mokuton.
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Madara used his Wood Release to attack and kill nearly a whole army section. These Wood Releases' power is a small fraction of the power Hashirama is able to generate. THE MAIN POINT HERE IS THAT HASHIRAMA'S MOKUTON CAN SUPRESS THE KYUUBI'S CHAKRA. Mokuton is the strongest KKG aside from the eye dojutsus. Yamato admitted he was nowhere near the level of Hashirama Senju, and Madara was able to use such a powerful Mokuton technique with his first try. Now imagine how strong Hashirama's mastered version was.
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Skip to 2mins:
Look at how many people have fought to get just a tiny bit of Hashirama's DNA. His chakra reserves were immense, and have subsequently allowed other shinobi's to amplify and control various other abilities. An entire Zetsu army was made out of his DNA. Tobi is flippin trying to grow another Hashirama for goodness sake:
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Hashirama also has Bringer of Darkness. Tell me WTF will Naruto do against that?
I'm not hating on Naruto or anything but people need to realise that Hashirama Senju would defeat him everytime.
yeah but he's not just stating his opinion the title of the thread is why Hashirama > BM Naruto. Also I still don't think the op has been proven wrong. NaruKurama has HALF the chakra that Kurama had when first fighting Hashirama. Uhh... pretty sure that makes a difference.
without kurama naruto would be younger son but now he is SO6P himself
and dont think he was gifted its like passed dowm from mother to son with the help of his father...
without sharingan sasuke would be nowhere to where naruto would be without kurama
Naruto without Kurama = younger son
Sasuke with just Sharingan = older son
right now its not equal because Naruto has Kurama
IF he didn't have Kurama then he would have to rely on his body that was passed down, and Sasuke would rely on is KG that was passed down, then it would be equal
Check the video I put in the OP. 2mins. He would not be able to dodge a non-edo, non-plot no jutsu Hashirama Mokuton attack. It created the entire hidden leaf forrest for goodness sake.
+ rep.. and he created it with one jutsu, in one go... immense chakra just crazy! yamato could only do a couple houses before being exhausted... remember senju have the sages body and willpower and physical energy... naruto is still far less than a prime hashirama non plot no jutsu edo!
You people just overestimate a person too much, Naruto has surely shown a great sign of potential he has or he will have as So6P himself referred Naruto his next successor BUT declaring him stronger than prev. hokages is just ridiculous....He has only exceeded so far Tsunade Senju, Tobirama Senju and Hiruzen Sarutobi can still take a shot against him....As far as Hashirama Senju and Minato Namikaze are concerned, Naruto has still to groom himself more to fight against these two.......Both fought Kyuubi in full-form (Yin+Yang), Hashirama defeated his opponent when his wife sealed it inside herself and survived whereas Minato decided to sacrifice himself so he couldn't survive....
The point is KM, BM or SM; any kind of Naruto is still not a match for Hashirama Senju...
BM Naruto > Hashirama