[Discussion] Why Hashirama and Naruto can both possess Ashura's chakra

[BLAZE]

he died without them

 

[ANiMUS]

So why he didn't get rinnegan he still looks the same nothing was promised to him even with hashes dna

Its only at the point of transmigration in which which the chakras mix.

 

[ANiMUS]

he died without them

I guess, you forgot the most important thing. Itachis Mangekyō, Nagatos and Madaras Rinnegan were simply images made out of dirt.
The Bijū with two tails, Matabi, clearly differentiated between the fake Rinnegan and the real Rinnegan.
Another question:

Do you know whether the former Jinchūriki have been revived with the chakra of the Bijū or not?
The answer is no, because they have been sealed inside Gedō Mazō. These case is similar to Ashuras chakra. Ashura and the Bijū exist as manifestations of chakra.

He died with it and as such the chakra is recreated as part of him when he is brought back through ET.

A bijuu is a separate existence. People are reincarnated as Ashura, meaning they are Ashura and therefore naturally have his high yang chakra. If it was sealed with in a person and died with them then the person would still be a jin.

TBH, the whole jinchuuriki thing is a bit murky. Madara clearly stated that in order to be a jin. You must be alive yet Obito used Edo Tensei's as his paths. Jins may be brought back with a portion of their chakra in a way similar to ginkaku and kinkaku, but we have no proof so we can't say.

 

[BLAZE]

bro his rinnegen were in nagato's socket

 

[ANiMUS]

bro his rinnegen were in nagato's socket

OK, I thought you were talking about Ashura, not the Rinnengan, my mistake. If you notice Madz also died an old man, that's y I said Kabuto tweeked Madara's body somehow to get that result

 

[BLAZE]

as a char kabuto is a genious though too bad people wank char on op jutsus

 

[Seventh Sama]

maybe, I mean if hashi didn't have any of ashuras chakra then Edo madara shouldn't have been able to awaken rinnegan once more with hashi's cells...

 

[BLAZE]

maybe, I mean if hashi didn't have any of ashuras chakra then Edo madara shouldn't have been able to awaken rinnegan once more with hashi's cells...

his eyes are their one in his socket other in obito's

 

[Transcendence]

Ughh.... Alpha your idiotic bias is beginning to show once more.

Hashirama DIED. Madara DIED. The transmigration happened and went into Naruto and Sasuke, letting them possess the chakra of Ashura and Indra. Madara gained the Rinnegan because he mixed the chakras of both Ashura (Hashirama) and Indra (himself) at a time when Naruto, the next incarnation of Ashura, wasn't even born. Edo Tensei's are not the full potential of the original person. Matatabi noted that Madara in Edo form was using a "Fake Rinnegan" and it was displaced soon after that the Rinnegan holds more power, in the form of Rinbo Hengoku, only when alive. Hashirama's cells that Sasuke is gaining DOES NOT CONTAIN ASHURA'S CHAKRA. It has already transmigrated in to Naruto. And Hagoromo already concluded that he didn't want anyone trying to become like him, so if Sasuke gets the Rinnegan, Naruto must as well, in order to keep the balance.​

 

[ANiMUS]

Ughh.... Alpha your idiotic bias is beginning to show once more.

Hashirama DIED. Madara DIED. The transmigration happened and went into Naruto and Sasuke, letting them possess the chakra of Ashura and Indra. Madara gained the Rinnegan because he mixed the chakras of both Ashura (Hashirama) and Indra (himself) at a time when Naruto, the next incarnation of Ashura, wasn't even born. Edo Tensei's are not the full potential of the original person. Matatabi noted that Madara in Edo form was using a "Fake Rinnegan" and it was displaced soon after that the Rinnegan holds more power, in the form of Rinbo Hengoku, only when alive. Hashirama's cells that Sasuke is gaining DOES NOT CONTAIN ASHURA'S CHAKRA. It has already transmigrated in to Naruto. And Hagoromo already concluded that he didn't want anyone trying to become like him, so if Sasuke gets the Rinnegan, Naruto must as well, in order to keep the balance.​

An ET mirrors the chakra they had when they were alive. If Hashirama had Ashura's chakra when he was alive b4 he died then he will be brought back with the exact same chakra recreated or not. Naruto can't gain Rinnengan because he lacks the requirement of EMS. He will obtain the same chakra though.

I would also appreciate it if u refrained from berating statements I treat all posters with respect, so I would appreciate if you extended the same courtesy.

Until proven nothing we theorize is fact.

 

[BLAZE]

ET is plot device.
though i agree we r just debating on assumptions

 

[ANiMUS]

ET is plot device.
though i agree we r just debating on assumptions

No, arguments there, but plot devices are used to get the story where it needs to go so what Kishi uses it to accomplish is up to him.

 

[Honord Sage]

Edo called for Hashirama not the SO6P Son and when Hashirama died His and the other soul separated again as explain by the SO6P This is not the first time this has happen.

 

[ANiMUS]

Edo called for Hashirama not the SO6P Son and when Hashirama died His and the other sold separated again as explain by the SO6P This is not the first time this has happen.

I always have a problem deciphering your english -_-
ET recreates Hashirama at his time before death, if Hashi has Ashura chakra then he will be recreated as having Ashura chakra.
If Nagato had Rinnengan before death then he will be recreated with Rinnengan.
Danzo would be recreated with Hashi cells and Shisui's eye
Madara would be recreated with Indra chakra

Even if it is not genuine it is recreated and unlike body parts chakra signature is made identical to when they have died. Therefore even if he isnt Ashura its a good enough knock off.

 

[Behemoth55]

A bijuu is a separate existence. People are reincarnated as Ashura, meaning they are Ashura and therefore naturally have his high yang chakra.

The reincarnations aren't literal Ashura or Indra, they have only got their chakra. The term yang-chakra is in this case wrong.
Do you mean Inton???

TBH, the whole jinchuuriki thing is a bit murky. Madara clearly stated that in order to be a jin. You must be alive yet Obito used Edo Tensei's as his paths. Jins may be brought back with a portion of their chakra in a way similar to ginkaku and kinkaku, but we have no proof so we can't say.

That's also wrong. The chakra of the Bijū has been still connected to Gedō Mazō, Obito used the former Jinchūriki as a vessel to release its power, nothing more. They woudn't be brought back with Bijū chakra due to Edo Tensei, that's simply impossible, because the chakra is already gone.
Ginkakus and Kinkakus case is also different, because they absorbed Kuramas chakra directly. It became part of their own reserves and that's the reason why both of them could use it as Edo Tensei.

Ergo: Edo Hashirama can't have Ashuras chakra now.

 

[Hokage Jay]

Sasuke is defineylu gonna get Rinnegan now Hashirama cells and Sages Power.....

 

[ANiMUS]

The reincarnations aren't literal Ashura or Indra, they have only got their chakra. The term yang-chakra is in this case wrong.
Do you mean Inton???


That's also wrong. The chakra of the Bijū has been still connected to Gedō Mazō, Obito used the former Jinchūriki as a vessel to release its power, nothing more. They woudn't be brought back with Bijū chakra due to Edo Tensei, that's simply impossible, because the chakra is already gone.
Ginkakus and Kinkakus case is also different, because they absorbed Kuramas chakra directly. It became part of their own reserves and that's the reason why both of them could use it as Edo Tensei.

Ergo: Edo Hashirama can't have Ashuras chakra now.

Thanks, I never really understood how the Edo Jinchuuriki thing worked

I stated that they arent separate entities because of Hashi's powers and how they're effect is almost identical to Naruto's Kyuubi cloak

Both the Kyuubi chakra cloak and Hashi's DNA greatly increase the powers of the user and even have healing affects. BM was undoubtedly made to mirror the younger son's ability. Hashi's power comes from being an incarnation of Ashura, there is no other way to explain it. If Ashura's power were similar to the Jinchuuriki process then him losing ashura's chakra, like losing a bijuu would result in the loss of his abilities and they haven't

There is an alternative though, it could be a case like KCM in which even though Ashura's chakra (as a spirit) left Hashi, some of its chakra, or its inherent chakra properties remained. This is possible, but it feels like splitting hairs though.

 

[Orochimagus]

Impure World Resurrection replicates genetics with the DNA sample, and summons the soul from the Pure World into the new vessel. This is why genetic traits like Rinnegan, Sharingan, and bloodline limits transfer over. Now the deal is that Kishimoto is being rather weird with mixing the concept of soul and chakra right now. Not even sure if this is a variation or not but...The manga disproves this thread. Hagoromo already made it clear Madara WAS the past avatar and Sasuke is the new one. He speaks of Madara a previous host.

Now if we take this concept of Ashura's chakra being his soul...Does this mean the resurrection technique can create a copy of a person? That seems a little ridiculous to me.

 

[ANiMUS]

Impure World Resurrection replicates genetics with the DNA sample, and summons the soul from the Pure World into the new vessel. This is why genetic traits like Rinnegan, Sharingan, and bloodline limits transfer over. Now the deal is that Kishimoto is being rather weird with mixing the concept of soul and chakra right now. Not even sure if this is a variation or not but...The manga disproves this thread. Hagoromo already made it clear Madara WAS the past avatar and Sasuke is the new one. He speaks of Madara a previous host.

Now if we take this concept of Ashura's chakra being his soul...Does this mean the resurrection technique can create a copy of a person? That seems a little ridiculous to me.

Well, it's not a whole person, it doesn't even have a consciousness, it's simply chakra which is reborn into those who have similar spirits, but yeah ET should be able to recreate Ashura's chakra.(Fake or otherwise) The same way it can replicate Hashirama's or any other shinobi's chakra

 

[Uchiha Samater]

one word

Transmigration

how do you reanimate chakra that has transmigrated, [not a physical body part] ?

Re-incarnation means beginning a life in a new body

Sasuke can still awaken the rinnegan from whatever power up he receives from Hagoromo

As he explained it wasn't the mix of uchiha and senju, but rather the mix of indra and ashura which awakened the rinnegan, [explains why Obito did not awaken his own rinnegan]