Why do people think EMS Madara > Nagato?

[Dark Slayer]

No way is Nagato > EMS Madara. But I do think he'd give Madara one helluva fight.

 

[7Zero]

A heathly prime Nagato with mobility and Gedo Mazou wins, without; EMS Madara wins on the presumption his chakra reserves are larger than Nagato's and he can hold PS for a lengthly period of time.

 

[GwemBaba]

Nagato and EMS Madara aren't even on the same tier. Madara takes him comfortably. Nagato has NOTHING that can break through Perfect Susanoo except CT which can easily be destroyed by PS's sword swings in the early stages.

CST is tanked by PS. Nagato's summons are useless here as they will not provide any distraction for a guy who can tear up the landscape with one attack nor will they break through or even harm PS in the slightest.

The only people who think Nagato can win are the people who foolishly believe in that horrible excuse of an argument, the Preta Path argument. Like Madara is going to sit there twiddling his thumbs while Nagato sucks up his Susanoo, which would obviously take a lot of time given its size. The also fail to realize that Nagato needs to get close to Susanoo to absorb it in the first place which is near impossible when one slash tears up the landscape and tossed the Gokage backwards when it wasn't even aimed towards them. Another thing they fail to realize is that Nagato can't absorb the mountain cutting shockwaves that PS shoots out, he can only deflect them and his ST has a 5 second time limit while PS has two swords.

Gedo Mazo isn't doing anything to PS, not when the latter tanked a Bijuu Dama that far surpassed any damage capabilities of the Mazo by far. Also the people who think Nagato has WAY more chakra than Madara. Think again. Madara was able to fight for a day non stop and control the Kyuubi and use Perfect Susanoo at teh same time with no noticeable stamina issues while Nagato exhausted most of his chakra by just fighting the leaf village.

The Kyuubi isn't even necessary to fight against Nagato. Madara has him beat in feats and hype. Inb4 someone starts talking about how Madara doesn't jump straight to PS, he obviously doesn't need to as he will climb Susanoo's levels as Nagato presents more and more attacks for him to deal with.

And lmfao at the people who think Nagato wins because he has Rinnegan (Transplanted) while Madara has EMS. Even though Madara's feats with his EMS surpass Nagato's feats with his Rinnegan.

EMS Madara>Nagato. Clear as day.

It's gonna take me a while to deconstruct such a flawed argument, bare with me, I'm busy at the moment.

I shall highlight each of your points a different color and my response shall be the same color.

for example:


"Turtles are yellow"

I think you'll find they are green.

Or:
"Nagato and EMS Madara aren't even on the same tier. Madara takes him comfortably. "

This is a stupid, biased and baseless point, backed up by zero facts.

It'll take me some time getting the necessary manga links for my arguement; I have a feeling it'll take me a while, as I said, I'm busy.

 

[BazzBee]

I best nagato wasn't even born when madara fought with Hashirama Valley of the end

 

[Midday]

Nagato and EMS Madara aren't even on the same tier. Madara takes him comfortably. Nagato has NOTHING that can break through Perfect Susanoo except CT which can easily be destroyed by PS's sword swings in the early stages.

Baseless and just an opinion. Last time I checked petra path absorbs chakra and chibaku tensei is more than large enough to comfortably hold ps, its pressure is enough to pull out a whole mountain range, even if PS doesn't get destroyed it's questionable how long Madara would be able to sustain it before getting crushed.

CST is tanked by PS. Nagato's summons are useless here as they will not provide any distraction for a guy who can tear up the landscape with one attack nor will they break through or even harm PS in the slightest.

Nagato's summons allow Nagato to take advantage of his linked vision, they provide support and force Madara to have more to deal with multiple opponents at once. He has nothing that can kill cerebus for example which will continue to multiply.

The only people who think Nagato can win are the people who foolishly believe in that horrible excuse of an argument, the Preta Path argument. Like Madara is going to sit there twiddling his thumbs while Nagato sucks up his Susanoo, which would obviously take a lot of time given its size. The also fail to realize that Nagato needs to get close to Susanoo to absorb it in the first place which is near impossible when one slash tears up the landscape and tossed the Gokage backwards when it wasn't even aimed towards them. Another thing they fail to realize is that Nagato can't absorb the mountain cutting shockwaves that PS shoots out, he can only deflect them and his ST has a 5 second time limit while PS has two swords.

Petra path isn't a 'horrible excuse of an arguement', the fact is it absorbs chakra and was able to rip off a large amount of Bee's chakra in no time at all. What exactly can Madara do when his susanoo is being absorbed? Attack him with Sussano which will also be absorbed. Why do you think it's so hard to get close to Madara when we've seen Hashirama got up close in their fight. Nagato can use the chameleon summon which is ridiculously fast on top of it's invisibility, he can use assura paths boosters combined with deva paths flying to get close. Those were just some examples.

Also petra path isn't the only thing he can do. He's able to pull Madara out of susanoo with bansho tenin. Similar to how Gaara did with sand. As gravity isn't tangible it passes through susanoo and grabs Madara the he can use the other hand to hold sussanoo in place while he removes Madara, Nagato has shown the ability to use both hands on seperate objects against kcm Naruto. Madara has no counters here and if Nagato has the sould dragon ready, Madara's done.

Who said he absorbs the shockwaves? We saw how they were simply deflected a tbb slash was deflected by the gates shinra tensei can do the same if not create a larger force back at Madara knocking him over. When has Madara shown the ability to continously do those slashes back to back, in the Hashirama fight if he could do that it he should have done it after the first one was deflected by the gates. You also act as if 5 seconds is a long time, also there's nothing confirming Nagato has the same limitations as his paths, Naruto already stated Nagato's speed and strength of jutsu are on another level so it should be argued that his min cooldown time is less than the original 5 seconds.

Gedo Mazo isn't doing anything to PS, not when the latter tanked a Bijuu Dama that far surpassed any damage capabilities of the Mazo by far. Also the people who think Nagato has WAY more chakra than Madara. Think again. Madara was able to fight for a day non stop and control the Kyuubi and use Perfect Susanoo at teh same time with no noticeable stamina issues while Nagato exhausted most of his chakra by just fighting the leaf village.

Gedo Mazo can easily hold it's own against PS, it's the Juubi's body which has shown capabilities of tanking bijuu dama's on top of the alliances wind slash jutsu. Kakashi has also been fighting for days in this war no stop, it doesn't mean he has more chakra than Nagato, that's a flawed point you've got there. No matter how you downplay it, Nagato's fight against Konoha showed great chakra feats form him. Soloing a village with puppets, using a village busting shinra tensei, defeating sm Naruto and the small toad army, fighting kyuubi Naruto, creating a mini moon which easily covered a mountain range and finally bringing back every single person he killed that day back to life which is easily in the high 10's of thousands. Arguably one of the best if not the best chakra feats in the series.

The Kyuubi isn't even necessary to fight against Nagato. Madara has him beat in feats and hype. Inb4 someone starts talking about how Madara doesn't jump straight to PS, he obviously doesn't need to as he will climb Susanoo's levels as Nagato presents more and more attacks for him to deal with.

And lmfao at the people who think Nagato wins because he has Rinnegan (Transplanted) while Madara has EMS. Even though Madara's feats with his EMS surpass Nagato's feats with his Rinnegan.

EMS Madara>Nagato. Clear as day.

The rest is just your boring opinion.

 

[GwemBaba]

Baseless and just an opinion. Last time I checked petra path absorbs chakra and chibaku tensei is more than large enough to comfortably hold ps, its pressure is enough to pull out a whole mountain range, even if PS doesn't get destroyed it's questionable how long Madara would be able to sustain it before getting crushed.



Nagato's summons allow Nagato to take advantage of his linked vision, they provide support and force Madara to have more to deal with multiple opponents at once. He has nothing that can kill cerebus for example which will continue to multiply.



Petra path isn't a 'horrible excuse of an arguement', the fact is it absorbs chakra and was able to rip off a large amount of Bee's chakra in no time at all. What exactly can Madara do when his susanoo is being absorbed? Attack him with Sussano which will also be absorbed. Why do you think it's so hard to get close to Madara when we've seen Hashirama got up close in their fight. Nagato can use the chameleon summon which is ridiculously fast on top of it's invisibility, he can use assura paths boosters combined with deva paths flying to get close. Those were just some examples.

Also petra path isn't the only thing he can do. He's able to pull Madara out of susanoo with bansho tenin. Similar to how Gaara did with sand. As gravity isn't tangible it passes through susanoo and grabs Madara the he can use the other hand to hold sussanoo in place while he removes Madara, Nagato has shown the ability to use both hands on seperate objects against kcm Naruto. Madara has no counters here and if Nagato has the sould dragon ready, Madara's done.

Who said he absorbs the shockwaves? We saw how they were simply deflected a tbb slash was deflected by the gates shinra tensei can do the same if not create a larger force back at Madara knocking him over. When has Madara shown the ability to continously do those slashes back to back, in the Hashirama fight if he could do that it he should have done it after the first one was deflected by the gates. You also act as if 5 seconds is a long time, also there's nothing confirming Nagato has the same limitations as his paths, Naruto already stated Nagato's speed and strength of jutsu are on another level so it should be argued that his max cooldown time is less than the original 5 seconds.



Gedo Mazo can easily hold it's own against PS, it's the Juubi's body which has shown capabilities of tanking bijuu dama's on top of the alliances wind slash jutsu. Kakashi has also been fighting for days in this war no stop, it doesn't mean he has more chakra than Nagato, that's a flawed point you've got there. No matter how you downplay it, Nagato's fight against Konoha showed great chakra feats form him. Soloing a village with puppets, using a village busting shinra tensei, defeating sm Naruto and the small toad army, fighting kyuubi Naruto, creating a mini moon which easily covered a mountain range and finally bringing back every single person he killed that day back to life which is easily in the high 10's of thousands. Arguably one of the best if not the best chakra feats in the series.



The rest is just your boring opinion.

For a start, he's using feats displayed in Edo Tensei form, who knows how much chakra it would drain from him in real life or if he could even summon the meteorite without the Rinnegan.

I can imagine he wouldn't even be able to use Susano'o for extended periods of time either, with the strain it caused Sasuke.

 

[KidGamer65]

Baseless and just an opinion. Last time I checked petra path absorbs chakra and chibaku tensei is more than large enough to comfortably hold ps, its pressure is enough to pull out a whole mountain range, even if PS doesn't get destroyed it's questionable how long Madara would be able to sustain it before getting crushed.

CT can easily be destroyed by Perfect Susanoo in its early stages and again with the Preta path BS? He needs to get close to it to do that.

Nagato's summons allow Nagato to take advantage of his linked vision, they provide support and force Madara to have more to deal with multiple opponents at once. He has nothing that can kill cerebus for example which will continue to multiply.

He doesn't even need to worry about the summons unless you tell me how they can even hinder PS in any way.

Petra path isn't a 'horrible excuse of an arguement', the fact is it absorbs chakra and was able to rip off a large amount of Bee's chakra in no time at all. What exactly can Madara do when his susanoo is being absorbed? Attack him with Sussano which will also be absorbed. Why do you think it's so hard to get close to Madara when we've seen Hashirama got up close in their fight. Nagato can use the chameleon summon which is ridiculously fast on top of it's invisibility, he can use assura paths boosters combined with deva paths flying to get close. Those were just some examples.

Yes it is a horrible counter for PS. PS Shockwaves cut mountains with ease, Nagato isn't absorbing a shockwave and if you think that Madara is going to sit there and wait for Nagato to get close to his Susanoo before he starts firing off these shockwaves you are kidding yourself. Chameleon summon can be seen by Sharingan so its invisibility means nothing here. Nagato starts to move towards Perfect Susnaoo and then Madara does this.

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Nagato gets sent flying backwards or gets hit by the shockwave.

Also petra path isn't the only thing he can do. He's able to pull Madara out of susanoo with bansho tenin. Similar to how Gaara did with sand. As gravity isn't tangible it passes through susanoo and grabs Madara the he can use the other hand to hold sussanoo in place while he removes Madara, Nagato has shown the ability to use both hands on seperate objects against kcm Naruto. Madara has no counters here and if Nagato has the sould dragon ready, Madara's done.

Lmao. Nagato can't pull any Susanoo user out of their Susanoo. Inventing capabilities for Nagato I see. Go show me when he could manipulate gravity like that, he pulls things towards him or pushes them away. He can't hold down Susanoo with BT. He can't hold down Susanoo so he can't pull him.out.

Soul Dragon is blocked by Susanoo. Don't even bring up how its intangible because it hit the ground and caused visible damage so it isn't getting past Susanoo.

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Who said he absorbs the shockwaves? We saw how they were simply deflected a tbb slash was deflected by the gates shinra tensei can do the same if not create a larger force back at Madara knocking him over. When has Madara shown the ability to continously do those slashes back to back, in the Hashirama fight if he could do that it he should have done it after the first one was deflected by the gates. You also act as if 5 seconds is a long time, also there's nothing confirming Nagato has the same limitations as his paths, Naruto already stated Nagato's speed and strength of jutsu are on another level so it should be argued that his min cooldown time is less than the original 5 seconds.

Ps holds two swords. He doesn't even need to fire them off continously when he can fire one, Nagato has to block it then he fires another with his other sword. Two slashes in a little bit more than 5 seconds. Easy to pull off. There is nothing that hints Nagato's cooldown being longer. Speed of the jutsu does NOT equal cooldown period of the jutsu so he does have the 5 second time limit until shown otherwise.

Nagato's Shinra Tensei isn't knocking over PS.

Gedo Mazo can easily hold it's own against PS, it's the Juubi's body which has shown capabilities of tanking bijuu dama's on top of the alliances wind slash jutsu. Kakashi has also been fighting for days in this war no stop, it doesn't mean he has more chakra than Nagato, that's a flawed point you've got there. No matter how you downplay it, Nagato's fight against Konoha showed great chakra feats form him. Soloing a village with puppets, using a village busting shinra tensei, defeating sm Naruto and the small toad army, fighting kyuubi Naruto, creating a mini moon which easily covered a mountain range and finally bringing back every single person he killed that day back to life which is easily in the high 10's of thousands. Arguably one of the best if not the best chakra feats in the series.

Gedo Mazo transformed when it got all of the Bijuu's chakra, going by your logic even though 1st stage Juubi evolved into 2nd stage Juubi, the durability remained the same when it clearly didn't, go get proof that the durability stayed the same before giving Gedo Mazo durability feats that belong to the Juubi. Go look the Mazo's feats instead of giving other being's feats to it and you'll see that it can't even do squat to PS so it isn't even harming PS let alone holding its own against it. Thanks for the laugh though.

Never said Madara has more chakra than Nagato. I only said that Nagato doesn't have WAY more chakra than him and that this won't come down to a battle of attrition.

 

[KidGamer65]

It's gonna take me a while to deconstruct such a flawed argument, bare with me, I'm busy at the moment.

I shall highlight each of your points a different color and my response shall be the same color.

for example:


"Turtles are yellow"

I think you'll find they are green.

Or:
"Nagato and EMS Madara aren't even on the same tier. Madara takes him comfortably. "

This is a stupid, biased and baseless point, backed up by zero facts.

It'll take me some time getting the necessary manga links for my arguement; I have a feeling it'll take me a while, as I said, I'm busy.

:sy: That's my opinion not my argument. Its not even a point meant for anyone to counter so I don't know why you wasted your time attempting to counter what doesn't need to be countered. Fool.

 

[Midday]

CT can easily be destroyed by Perfect Susanoo in its early stages and again with the Preta path BS? He needs to get close to it to do that.

Chibaku tensei doesn't take that long to form to a reasonable side. It also took a combination of a full tbb, rasenshuriken and susanoo's projectiles to destroy it. That combination is far more destructive than PS, also the core isn't fragile. It's able to withstand a mountain range worth of rubble.

He doesn't even need to worry about the summons unless you tell me how they can even hinder PS in any way.

Having to fight 10 different targets is obviously going to be harder than just one. Also Madara can't kill cerebus as it will just continue to multiply, which is going to hinder Madara.

Yes it is a horrible counter for PS. PS Shockwaves cut mountains with ease, Nagato isn't absorbing a shockwave and if you think that Madara is going to sit there and wait for Nagato to get close to his Susanoo before he starts firing off these shockwaves you are kidding yourself. Chameleon summon can be seen by Sharingan so its invisibility means nothing here. Nagato starts to move towards Perfect Susnaoo and then Madara does this.

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Nagato gets sent flying backwards or gets hit by the shockwave.

I've said nothing of shockwaves being absorbed. You make it seem impossible for Nagato getting close which isn't the case, for example the Mazo can keep him busy whilst Nagato can get close quickly with assura paths rockets and his ability to fly. He could also drag susanoo towards him with bansho tennin.

Lmao. Nagato can't pull any Susanoo user out of their Susanoo. Inventing capabilities for Nagato I see. Go show me when he could manipulate gravity like that, he pulls things towards him or pushes them away. He can't hold down Susanoo with BT. He can't hold down Susanoo so he can't pull him.out.

He doesn't exactly have to hold it, he can pull Madara and push susanoo. Lets recap, Gaara can pull Madara out of susanoo

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, replace the sand with his gravity pull which has no issue of getting through susanoo as it's intangible. Notice with deva paths ability he's able to remove the nail out of this plank without touching it

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. Let susanoo be the plank and Madara the nail. If that's not enough Nagato's shown the ability to use two seperate bansho tennin's here

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one to pull Madara the other to hold susnoo. Nagato has the capability to replicate what Gaara did. So you're going to have to add a little more than just saying he can't do it.

Soul Dragon is blocked by Susanoo. Don't even bring up how its intangible because it hit the ground and caused visible damage so it isn't getting past Susanoo.

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This is after Madara is removed from the susanoo. He also has other options like assura paths laser which would kill him.

Ps holds two swords. He doesn't even need to fire them off continously when he can fire one, Nagato has to block it then he fires another with his other sword. Two slashes in a little bit more than 5 seconds. Easy to pull off. There is nothing that hints Nagato's cooldown being longer. Speed of the jutsu does NOT equal cooldown period of the jutsu so he does have the 5 second time limit until shown otherwise.

Shinra tensei consists of a cooldown and a near instant blast, speed of jutsu takes into account how long it takes to use it i.e cooldown. Naruto said it's faster, the blast is near on instant so the only thing left is the cooldown. The fact that all Nagato's technique's are on another level imply it as well. Why would Nagato have the same restrictions as the paths? You saying nothing hints to it is just your opinion when there have been points suggesting otherwise.

Nagato's Shinra Tensei isn't knocking over PS.

Once again an opinion with nothing backing it. If you get hit by a blast strong enough you fall over, PS has a humanoid shape and should follow human physics.

Gedo Mazo transformed when it got all of the Bijuu's chakra, going by your logic even though 1st stage Juubi evolved into 2nd stage Juubi, the durability remained the same when it clearly didn't, go get proof that the durability stayed the same before giving Gedo Mazo durability feats that belong to the Juubi. Go look the Mazo's feats instead of giving other being's feats to it and you'll see that it can't even do squat to PS so it isn't even harming PS let alone holding its own against it. Thanks for the laugh though.

For example if Naruto with full chakra can take a punch can Naruto with almost zero chakra take that same punch? Chakra is not linked with durability. You're going to have to show a scan of the 1st stage having different durability than the second. It's pretty much tbb's for their tanking and they can both tank them. Again you're just being biased and giving an opinion on the Mazo not holding it's own to susanoo.

Spoiler

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Never said Madara has more chakra than Nagato. I only said that Nagato doesn't have WAY more chakra than him and that this won't come down to a battle of attrition.

That whole point you made was irrelevant then and you shouldn't have bothered. The general consensus is descendants of the younger son > descendants of the elder son in terms of chakra. I don't see Madara being that close to the top tier younger son descendants in terms of chakra.

 

[Strict]

Lol Midday, Nagato cannot control Gedo Mato the way Tobi did it. It's a fact that only those who possess both Uchiha and Senju DNA, can control the statue properly. But yes, the soul removal dragon can still be used by Nagato, for the price he immobilizes himself by letting himself being stabbed by a bunch of rods. It's however canon that Madara is able to summon the Kyuubi and to control him while going on rampage with the perfect Susanoo.

With the part of Shinra Tensei you must kidding. The perfect Susanoo is not only huge and fast, it is also mobile. Even if Nagato uses one of his stronger forces, in order to push the perfect Susanoo back, it wouldn't change anything, even if it should fall. Heck, one slash slices a bunch of mountains apart without actually touching them and yet you go to debate against it with Nagatos pitiful Shinra Tensei. Funny enough to think Nagato could absorb the monstrous Susanoo. A Biju cloak consists out of a small portion of a Bijus Chakra and has the ize of a human, making it easier to take this compressed portion of Chakra with one "bite". Even Kisame absorbed this Chakra cloak mostly by just swinging its sword once. And you want to tell me that Nagato would come to absorb such large amounts of Charka, that have taken the form of a Samurai of 200 meters, that can destroy the entry landscape with one swing of its sword, without any drawbacks like an interval restricting the whole Deva-Path.

EMS Madara >> Nagato.
EMS Madara + Kyuubi (as being able to summon and perfectly control it) >>>> Nagato (who can't control Gedo Mazo properly).

Got it?

 

[Midday]

Lol Midday, Nagato cannot control Gedo Mato the way Tobi did it. It's a fact that only those who possess both Uchiha and Senju DNA, can control the statue properly. But yes, the soul removal dragon can still be used by Nagato, for the price he immobilizes himself by letting himself being stabbed by a bunch of rods. It's however canon that Madara is able to summon the Kyuubi and to control him while going on rampage with the perfect Susanoo.

With the part of Shinra Tensei you must kidding. The perfect Susanoo is not only huge and fast, it is also mobile. Even if Nagato uses one of his stronger forces, in order to push the perfect Susanoo back, it wouldn't change anything, even if it should fall. Heck, one slash slices a bunch of mountains apart without actually touching them and yet you go to debate against it with Nagatos pitiful Shinra Tensei. Funny enough to think Nagato could absorb the monstrous Susanoo. A Biju cloak consists out of a small portion of a Bijus Chakra and has the ize of a human, making it easier to take this compressed portion of Chakra with one "bite". Even Kisame absorbed this Chakra cloak mostly by just swinging its sword once. And you want to tell me that Nagato would come to absorb such large amounts of Charka, that have taken the form of a Samurai of 200 meters, that can destroy the entry landscape with one swing of its sword, without any drawbacks like an interval restricting the whole Deva-Path.

EMS Madara >> Nagato.
EMS Madara + Kyuubi (as being able to summon and perfectly control it) >>>> Nagato (who can't control Gedo Mazo properly).

Got it?

He has Madara's eyes which count as Uchiha dna, he has met that requirement. Soul dragon drains his chakra, it doesn't immobilize him, what immobilized him was Hanzo's attack. This thread is strictly ems Madara not including the kyuubi.

The point about him knocking susanoo over allows him plenty of time to reach susanoo and absorb it. Calling Nagato's shinra tensei pitiful doesn't make it so and you know it isn't, the same slash that cut mountains was simply deflected by that gate summon and that was when it was combined with a bijuu dama, I can see Shinra tensei blocking that.

You said that it was a small portion of Bee's chakra. The 8 tails said here that almost all of it was gone through the kisame fight,

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. Going through the fight Kisame absorbed his chakra roguhly 3 times I just skimmed through the number is't accurate but I wouldn't call v2 a small portion. It could only absorb the v2 cloak but not v1 when it did, where Nagato got the whole thing without trouble. It depends on what has more chakra the compressed version of the 8 tails or Madara's susanoo, it's probably the 8 tails. Anyway Nagato's absorbing is limitless and if they were in that position the susanoo's going to collapsing after it's been destabilized by getting it absorb at a quick rate by Nagato .

 

[KidGamer65]

Chibaku tensei doesn't take that long to form to a reasonable side. It also took a combination of a full tbb, rasenshuriken and susanoo's projectiles to destroy it. That combination is far more destructive than PS, also the core isn't fragile. It's able to withstand a mountain range worth of rubble.

You have no proof that the destructive power of those moves was absolutely necessary to destroy the core. Not to mention Itachi, Naruto and Bee were busy chatting it up before they destroyed the core.

Having to fight 10 different targets is obviously going to be harder than just one. Also Madara can't kill cerebus as it will just continue to multiply, which is going to hinder Madara.

Not when they can't even scratch PS. Not when his slash covers enough range to hit most if not all of them. When you tell me how the Cerberus even hurts PS then you can say that it will hinder him. He can simply ignore it and fight Nagato, not that hard.

I've said nothing of shockwaves being absorbed. You make it seem impossible for Nagato getting close which isn't the case, for example the Mazo can keep him busy whilst Nagato can get close quickly with assura paths rockets and his ability to fly. He could also drag susanoo towards him with bansho tennin.

Never said you mentioned anything about Shockwaves being absorbed. I simply mentioned that if Nagato attempts to get close PS shoots its shockwave at him.

How exactly is the Mazo keeping PS busy anyway? PS dwarfs it, its feats show that it is not even capable of harming PS in the slightest. That thing gets tossed back by a sword slash. 1 Sword Slash tossed the Gokage back effortlessly and it wasn't even aimed towards them. One aimed towards Nagato will send him flying backwards regardless of if he's flying or not.

Doubt Nagato can pull something as big as PS towards him with BT when Madara needed to amplify his BT with Susanoo to pull the meteor.

He doesn't exactly have to hold it, he can pull Madara and push susanoo. Lets recap, Gaara can pull Madara out of susanoo

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, replace the sand with his gravity pull which has no issue of getting through susanoo as it's intangible. Notice with deva paths ability he's able to remove the nail out of this plank without touching it

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. Let susanoo be the plank and Madara the nail. If that's not enough Nagato's shown the ability to use two seperate bansho tennin's here

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one to pull Madara the other to hold susnoo. Nagato has the capability to replicate what Gaara did. So you're going to have to add a little more than just saying he can't do it.

What you are implying is him using ST and BT at the same time when he's only shown the capability to attract multiple objects with BT. Actually its not even that as ST has a different push effect than the one you are describing

This is after Madara is removed from the susanoo. He also has other options like assura paths laser which would kill him.

See above.

Shinra tensei consists of a cooldown and a near instant blast, speed of jutsu takes into account how long it takes to use it i.e cooldown. Naruto said it's faster, the blast is near on instant so the only thing left is the cooldown. The fact that all Nagato's technique's are on another level imply it as well. Why would Nagato have the same restrictions as the paths? You saying nothing hints to it is just your opinion when there have been points suggesting otherwise.

Cooldown isn't the length it takes to use the jutsu. Cooldown is the wait period before the jutsu can be activated again. ST is a near instant blast, that's the jutsu's speed.

Once again an opinion with nothing backing it. If you get hit by a blast strong enough you fall over, PS has a humanoid shape and should follow human physics.

CST isn't strong enough to knock

Susanoo, not when it was unfazed by a Bijuu Dama, and even if it is strong enough to knock it over, Madara can revert to his legless unstabilized Susanoo and reform PS.

@bold: Lmfao, says the guy who simply stated CST would knock over PS without any backup.

For example if Naruto with full chakra can take a punch can Naruto with almost zero chakra take that same punch? Chakra is not linked with durability. You're going to have to show a scan of the 1st stage having different durability than the second. It's pretty much tbb's for their tanking and they can both tank them. Again you're just being biased and giving an opinion on the Mazo not holding it's own to susanoo.

What an extremely flawed comparison. Does Naruto undergo a transformation when his chakra is taken away? No he doesn't so that alone makes your whole comparison moot. Manga has already shown that as Bijuu transform their overall stats increase. Obviously the Juubi is no different.

6-Tailed Naruto's durability>4-Tailed Naruto's durability.

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This alone puts any destructive feat the Mazo has to shame.

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You think any of the destructive feats the Mazo showed in those scans you posted have a chance of damaging PS when it tanked this. Not happening. Gedo Mazo's strongest attack in the manga is vastly inferior to Kyuubi's TBB which PS tanked thus Gedo Mazo's strongest attack isn't even fazing PS let alone harming it.

Nagato can't even control the Mazo like Obito can so this is all moot. He lacks Uchiha DNA/blood and no hie eyes are not a substitute. Otherwise Kakashi would be able to use the Sharingan without the drawbacks that he has.

That whole point you made was irrelevant then and you shoulldn't have bothered. The general consensus is descendants of the younger son > descendants of the elder son in terms of chakra. I don't see Madara being that close to the top tier younger son descendants in terms of chakra.

Or maybe you shouldn't have bothered replying to it in the first place wasn't directed towards you in the first place.

 

[AlphaScythian]

I can understand if you think EMS Madara + Kyuubi > Nagato. I can absolutely understand when you say Edo Madara > Nagato.

But EMS Madara w/o Kyuubi is not better than Nagato. EMS Madara uses alot of Ninjutsu, and that gets absorbed. EMS Madara cannot create 25 Wood Clones + Susano'o clad. The only chance EMS Madara would have at beating Nagato would be Taijutsu, and I do not even see that happening.
Someone explain this to me?

How about sky scrapper called susanoo, that can cut multiple mountains over many miles in split second?

 

[Waltz]

He has Madara's eyes which count as Uchiha dna, he has met that requirement. Soul dragon drains his chakra, it doesn't immobilize him, what immobilized him was Hanzo's attack. This thread is strictly ems Madara not including the kyuubi.

The point about him knocking susanoo over allows him plenty of time to reach susanoo and absorb it. Calling Nagato's shinra tensei pitiful doesn't make it so and you know it isn't, the same slash that cut mountains was simply deflected by that gate summon and that was when it was combined with a bijuu dama, I can see Shinra tensei blocking that.

You said that it was a small portion of Bee's chakra. The 8 tails said here that almost all of it was gone through the kisame fight,

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. Going through the fight Kisame absorbed his chakra roguhly 3 times I just skimmed through the number is't accurate but I wouldn't call v2 a small portion. It could only absorb the v2 cloak but not v1 when it did, where Nagato got the whole thing without trouble. It depends on what has more chakra the compressed version of the 8 tails or Madara's susanoo, it's probably the 8 tails. Anyway Nagato's absorbing is limitless and if they were in that position the susanoo's going to collapsing after it's been destabilized by getting it absorb at a quick rate by Nagato .

No.

Madara's eyes can't act as Uchiha DNA in that sense as it doesn't make him uchiha nor part uchiha but more like kakashi [

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] [

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] Soul dragon technique strips Nagato of Life force and Chakra (the two entites the Mazou itself is missing to complete its form) and Nagato can only use the technique from 10-20seconds before he has to either cancel it or allow it to continue; killing himself in the process. Nagato would reach the ground in time to absorb susano'o as not only does it take time to reach the ground [

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] but Susano'o itself can be regenerated at will. The chances of this are slim either way as True susanoo's unstabilzed form was able to

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a Bijuu-Dama from the kyuubi [

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] with no damage. Chou shinra Tensei would presumably do no harm to its stabilized form.

Nagato

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near absorb naruto entire cloak with preta as it's absorbtion rate it very slow, taking much time to absorb simple jutsu as the rasengan [

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]. Samehada's absorbtion rate is much much quicker. The Hachibi was only out of chakra because of the fight that occured between Bee and sasuke added to the 8-10 TBV2 tails worth of chakra that was extracted + His transformations while in the water dome [

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]. Madara's extremely intelligent and would stop producing Yin Chakra chakra to form susano'o if he realizes that Nagato is absorbing it. Its impossible for him to absorb the whole thing given it's

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before Madara realizes and even if a part of it is absorbed it can be replenished at will as i stated prior.

 

[Strict]

@Midday, no dear, an implanted eye doesn't give you the required DNA, otherwise Kakashi wouldn't have fell for Tsukuyomi due to his lack of Uchiha DNA.

Spoiler

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Itachi notes, that though Kakashis body is suited for carrying the Sharingan, it doesn't contain any of the Uchihas blood.
Orochimaru, who used to experiment on Danzo, implanted him the Sharingans, Hashiramas DNA and most likely as well Uchiha DNA, making him able to use Izanagi. Above, Nagato isn't even a true Senju but a distant relative, an Uzumaki. Nagato can summon the Gedo Mazo, but he cannot control it properly, as he doesn't combine Uchiha and Senju DNA in his body.

Further you underestimate Hashiramas Gojuu Rashomon by thinking, Nagatos Shinra Tensei would do a better job. The 5 gates slightly changed the swords trajectory after being crushed by it, and as I remember, already three of these gates, used by Orochimaru, changed the trajectory of an exploding Bijudama. Moreover you can't compare the firepower of a blade Susanoo sent flying with an actual slash caused by real strike, able to slice apart a range of mountains.

Secondly it doesn't depend on which form of Chakra has more behind, but on the size it has. Even if a Biju cloak should have by far more Chakra than a Susanoo, it is yet absorbed faster. It's just like with calories a certain drink has. A cup of cola has therefore more calories than a bottle of water. Though it is a small portion, the properties of this substance contains more calories and more energy than a huge bottle of water. Yet this cup of cola is drunken with one move, while a bottle of water can be drunken for hours. What I want to say is, it's not the amount that is compressed within a small shape, its the size that matters, as you cannot take such a huge portion with one move.

It's anyway absurd to call Nagato the superior one in physical firepower. The perfect Susanoo is a huge Samurai of about 200 meters, even a tailed beast bomb of the nine tails didn't threw it back. It's not only huge, it is also stable. Gedo Mazos physical strength for example easily tanked Chojis and Chozas punches, and you can't tell me that Gedo Mazos physical strength is something beyond the perfect Susanoos. Already the physical power of the normal sized Susanoo gives you enough strength to smash a three meter thick wall effortlessly.

Nagato is a little human that bears an interval of 5 seconds for already a normal Shinra Tensei, that increases the stronger this Shinra Tensei is; Susanoo is a huge and fast Samurai that crushes the landscape with one slash, without getting any drawbacks.

Ah, and did you forget about Kurama? I remember that Madara was able to perfectly control him, like a pet. Just summoning it and letting him go on rampage, while himself going with the perfect Susanoo on rampage. I bet you will still say that Nagato will solo him.

 

[AlphaScythian]

This thread is joke.
Madara can instantly summon complete susanoo, then takes 1 sec to stabilize it or less.

He will literally stomp nagato with susanoo like a bug, no need to talk of abilities or anything else.