Why do people say 1 MS Kakashi>Itachi?

[ChocolateVanilla]

Because Itachi can't counter Kamui

 

[pateuvasiliu]

I know Kakashi with 2 MS and Obito's chakra would win but how can 1 MS Kakashi win?

I see "Kamui snipe" or "War arc Kakashi negs"

Cant Itachi just burn him with Amatersu or use Tsukyuomi(it doesnt work on Uchiha with MS only)
Or use clones to distract Kakashi and seal him with Totsuka?

No. Kamui is faster than Itachi can react.

Both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu need time to act, Kamui is nigh instant.

In a base fight, Kakashi destroys Itachi and once both activate the MS it's over for Itachi.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

No. Kamui is faster than Itachi can react.

Both Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu need time to act, Kamui is nigh instant.
In a base fight, Kakashi destroys Itachi and once both activate the MS it's over for Itachi.

@Bold
I'd like to see Kakashi hit DSM Kabuto Lol

 

[BenjerminGaye]

@Bold
I'd like to see Kakashi hit DSM Kabuto Lol

Lol itachi never hit dsm kabuto.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

Lol itachi never hit dsm kabuto.

You always deny things.
Itachi clearly cut his horn, but seriously stop BSing things to make people look better/worse.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

You always deny things.
Itachi clearly cut his horn, but seriously stop BSing things to make people look better/worse.

A horn kabuto didn't even know he had. Stop trying to milk lackluster feats.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

A horn kabuto didn't even know he had. Stop trying to milk lackluster feats.

Funny how that means nothing. If you forget that you have a nose, and your nose gets sliced off, you're still missing a nose.
Added to the fact that Kabuto completely dodged a Susano'o arrow which Kakashi couldn't do.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Funny how that means nothing. If you forget that you have a nose, and your nose gets sliced off, you're still missing a nose.
Added to the fact that Kabuto completely dodged a Susano'o arrow which Kakashi couldn't do.

Kabuto didn't gain a nose upon entering sm, so please do better.

War ark kakashi could dodge a susanno arrow.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

Kabuto didn't gain a nose upon entering sm, so please do better.

War ark kakashi could dodge a susanno arrow.

And? And you are also unable to prove that Kabuto was able to completely avoid the sword, he merely stated that he forgot that he had horns, not that he could have dodged the blade completely if he remembered that he had horns.

And, no.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

And? And you are also unable to prove that Kabuto was able to completely avoid the sword, he merely stated that he forgot that he had horns, not that he could have dodged the blade completely if he remembered that he had horns.

And, no.

An upside down, mid air,blind and distracted kabuto dodged itachi's strike(said strike only being possible thanks to Sasuke). At best(despite 4 factors working in itachi's favor) could clip a horn kabuto was unaware he had. That in no way shape or form means his attack speed is anywhere near as fast as susanno arrow, since there were multiple factors working in itachi's favor to begin with. It would be the equivalent of saying sakura attack speed is greater that kaguya's reaction rate.

If no sharingan mid air danzo gave birth to a tree b4 the arrow came close to him, the much faster sharingan precognition kakashi should be able to dodge it or at the very least redirect it in the same fashion danzo did.

 

[Pragmatic]

Itachi cant defend from Tsyukuyomi even with two MS lol

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

An upside down, mid air,blind and distracted kabuto dodged itachi's strike(said strike only being possible thanks to Sasuke). At best(despite 4 factors working in itachi's favor) could clip a horn kabuto was unaware he had. That in no way shape or form means his attack speed is anywhere near as fast as susanno arrow, since there were multiple factors working in itachi's favor to begin with. It would be the equivalent of saying sakura attack speed is greater that kaguya's reaction rate.

If no sharingan mid air danzo gave birth to a tree b4 the arrow came close to him, the much faster sharingan precognition kakashi should be able to dodge it or at the very least redirect it in the same fashion danzo did.

Upside down? Exactly how does that affect a perfect Sage?
Mid Air? He was still dangling, therefor he was capable of dodging.
Blind? He still has the best reaction rate excluding any god tier
And he wasn't distracted for long.

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Dat Sakura example Lol

Danzo was able to create a tree before the arrow hit him, Kakashi was able to activate his Ms before his arrows hit him, yet he still couldn't dodge.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Upside down? Exactly how does that affect a perfect Sage?

Spoiler

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Thats how it effects him.

Mid Air? He was still dangling, therefor he was capable of dodging.

Actually his tail was liquidating it and was slipping off the arrow. Either way he's no onnoki so forced mid air combat isn't his forte.

Blind?

were his eyes not closed?

He still has the best reaction rate excluding any god tier

Based on what exactly? Dodging a arrow?

And he wasn't distracted for long.

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Him sensing itachi dosen't detract from the still present crows.

Dat Sakura example Lol

Oh I'm sorry you find the truth funny.

Danzo was able to create a tree before the arrow hit him

Then I guess danzo has god tier reactions lol
,

Kakashi was able to activate his Ms before his arrows hit him, yet he still couldn't dodge.

Not war arc kakashi, and he reacted to the arrows. He to before his prime showing must have god tier reactions.
Lol

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

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Thats how it effects him.

So the joint effors of Itachi and Sasuke to catch Kabuto= Being upside down affecting his reaction rate?[/quote]

Actually his tail was liquidating it and was slipping off the arrow. Either way he's no onnoki so forced mid air combat isn't his forte.

All Shinobi are trained for these situations, are they not?

were his eyes not closed?
Based on what exactly?
Him sensing itachi dosen't detract from the still present crows.

He shut off his vision, but he was still able to dodge an arrow that a Sharingan user noted was too fast for them to dodge. Nobody else besides Ay has even shown reactions on this level.
And are you saying that the crows prevented Kabuto from dodging Itachi faster? because I know that you aren't that daft.

Oh I'm sorry you find the truth funny.

I find misinterpretation even funnier

Then I guess danzo has god tier reactions lol

Better than Kakashi, even at the ripe old age of 72

, Not war arc kakashi, and he reacted to the arrows. He to before his prime showing must have god tier reactions.
Lol

He was able to react with his eyes, not his body. If he was even close to being fast enough to dodge it, he would have used Kamui.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

So the joint effors of Itachi and Sasuke to catch Kabuto= Being upside down affecting his reaction rate?

No him bobbing and taking 3 panels just to grab a sword means his reactions will be slower.

All Shinobi are trained for these situations, are they not?

Really? Is that why Muu dodged mid air naruto like nothing and Naruto needed Garra's sand footstool to land a hit? Hmm.

He shut off his vision, but he was still able to dodge an arrow that a Sharingan user noted was too fast for them to dodge. Nobody else besides Ay has even shown reactions on this level.

bold is baseless.Nothing puts that arrow on kamui or amaterasu level. That arrow hasn't hit anyone directly, even near death obito countered it(or bz take your pick)

And are you saying that the crows prevented Kabuto from dodging Itachi faster?

Did he not put his hands up because of the crows?

I find misinterpretation even funnier

So according to you sakura attack speed is greater than kaguya's reaction speed, and it's not because kaguya was distracted.

Better than Kakashi, even at the ripe old age of 72

or the arrow isn't as fast as you claim

He was able to react with his eyes, not his body.

or he had to use his eyes since it was two arrows and not one. But that's speculation.

If he was even close to being fast enough to dodge it, he would have used Kamui.

war arc kakashi is faster than summit kakashi. If that's not enough then there's the first gate. He's dodging it.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

So the joint effors of Itachi and Sasuke to catch Kabuto= Being upside down affecting his reaction rate?

No him bobbing and taking 3 panels just to grab a sword means his reactions will be slower.

All Shinobi are trained for these situations, are they not?

Really? Is that why Muu dodged mid air naruto like nothing and Naruto needed Garra's sand footstool to land a hit? Hmm.

He shut off his vision, but he was still able to dodge an arrow that a Sharingan user noted was too fast for them to dodge. Nobody else besides Ay has even shown reactions on this level.

bold is baseless.Nothing puts that arrow on kamui or amaterasu level. That arrow hasn't hit anyone directly, even near death obito countered it(or bz take your pick)

And are you saying that the crows prevented Kabuto from dodging Itachi faster?

Did he not put his hands up because of the crows?

I find misinterpretation even funnier

So according to you sakura attack speed is greater than kaguya's reaction speed, and it's not because kaguya was distracted.

Better than Kakashi, even at the ripe old age of 72

or the arrow isn't as fast as you claim

He was able to react with his eyes, not his body.

or he had to use his eyes since it was two arrows and not one. But that's speculation.

If he was even close to being fast enough to dodge it, he would have used Kamui.

war arc kakashi is faster than summit kakashi. If that's not enough then there's the first gate. He's dodging it.

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

No him bobbing and taking 3 panels just to grab a sword means his reactions will be slower.

Using this logic, Itachi should be able to dodge all of Kakashi's attacks, no diff because

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Really? Is that why Muu dodged mid air naruto like nothing and Naruto needed Garra's sand footstool to land a hit? Hmm.

Well obviously Mū is better than Naruto in mid-air as he's a high-kage level combatant, whilst without Kawazu Kumite, all Naruto has is a fast Shunshin speed

bold is baseless.Nothing puts that arrow on kamui or amaterasu level. That arrow hasn't hit anyone directly, even near death obito countered it(or bz take your pick)

Hmm really?
Bee was able to react to Amaterasu, and do you really think that Bee(outpaced by Itachi) has reaction levels even close to DSM Kabuto?

Did he not put his hands up because of the crows?

Which he then sensed Itachi and had time to react to him.

So according to you sakura attack speed is greater than kaguya's reaction speed, and it's not because kaguya was distracted.

Kaguya had nowhere to go, while Kabuto had multiple options, not really the same scenario amigo.

or the arrow isn't as fast as you claim
or he had to use his eyes since it was two arrows and not one. But that's speculation.
war arc kakashi is faster than summit kakashi. If that's not enough then there's the first gate. He's dodging it.

That just makes Kakashi even slower
Speculation indeed
What suggests that there was a change in speed? Still haven't seen him dodge something as fast as that arrow.
First gate requires you to react to the situation, then open it, then dodge it. He's not doing all of that within that time span.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Using this logic, Itachi should be able to dodge all of Kakashi's attacks, no diff because

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There's no movement shown in those panels to indicate significant time lapse. Where as the panel I shown has sasuke getting out full sentences.

Well obviously Mū is better than Naruto in mid-air as he's a high-kage level combatant,

isn't this the same naruto that matched itachi (throwing shade like a boss) but that's aside from the point. Muu, onnoki, etc flying shinobi in general fight equally well if not better in the air as they do on ground. Can't say the same for ppl that can't fly.

whilst without Kawazu Kumite

yet he matched itachi lol(even more shade).

all Naruto has is a fast Shunshin speed

lol no.

Hmm really?
Bee was able to react to Amaterasu, and do you really think that Bee(outpaced by Itachi)

1) bee reacted to ftg
2)he saw the blood (like ay) and knew to prepare himself.

has reaction levels even close to DSM Kabuto?

again you're over exaggerating his reaction speed, and not taking into consideration kabuto's situation.

Which he then sensed Itachi and had time to react to him.

Still doesn't detract form the crows. Him sensing itachi doesn't mean they magically dissappear.

Kaguya had nowhere to go

She had nigh infinite directions to go, since she can fly, and canonically out speeds both noodles and sauce.

while Kabuto had multiple options, not really the same scenario amigo.

Actually his options were extremely limited (the point of the itachi/sasuke setup your disregarding)
Either it was:
A) he can't go anywhere since his tail was pinning him to the ceiling

Or

B) He can't go anywhere but down since he's falling and the only active force moving him is gravity.

That just makes Kakashi even slower
Speculation indeed
What suggests that there was a change in speed?

keeping up with v2 jinchuuriki, keeping pace with 6th gate guy u know the usual.

Still haven't seen him dodge something as fast as that arrow.
First gate requires you to react to the situation, then open it, then dodge it. He's not doing all of that within that time span.

So you're saying he can't open the first gate while sasuke is stringing the arrow? Hmm

 

[ChocolateVanilla]

There's no movement shown in those panels to indicate significant time lapse. Where as the panel I shown has sasuke getting out full sentences.

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but he still wasn't able to react. How is speech an accurate form of time perception? Especially when people we aren't able to tell how fast they're speaking.

isn't this the same naruto that matched itachi (throwing shade like a boss) but that's aside from the point. Muu, onnoki, etc flying shinobi in general fight equally well if not better in the air as they do on ground. Can't say the same for ppl that can't fly.
yet he matched itachi lol(even more shade).

A weaker Itachi ofc. Flying Shinobi would have the advantage, I suppose, but Itachi and Kabuto were both mid-air.

lol no.




1) bee reacted to ftg
2)he saw the blood (like ay) and knew to prepare himself.
again you're over exaggerating his reaction speed, and not taking into consideration kabuto's situation.

Bee did not react to FTG for 2 reasons

1) You need an instant reaction rate to react to instant. Bee already had his sword out signifying that he was ready for Minato

2) Itachi outpaced Bee, so if this were true Itachi would be faster than instant thereby breaking the laws of physics and destroying anybody he pleases.

And, how is Bee supposed to know that Sasuke was about to use Amaterasu when Sasuke himself didn't even know he had it until then?
Seeing blood in ones eye doesn't normally mean that someone is about to cast a Jutsu, especially when they were injured from earlier on.

Still doesn't detract form the crows. Him sensing itachi doesn't mean they magically dissappear.

You speak of as if the crows were attacking Kabuto, when they were clearly there just to feint him.
Also, feinting a passive sensor, pretty impressive, no?

She had nigh infinite directions to go, since she can fly, and canonically out speeds both noodles and sauce.
Actually his options were extremely limited (the point of the itachi/sasuke setup your disregarding)
Either it was:
A) he can't go anywhere since his tail was pinning him to the ceiling

Or

B) He can't go anywhere but down since he's falling and the only active force moving him is gravity.

Where was Kaguya supposed to go? The momentum of moving upwards prevented her from going down, Naruto was on her right, and Sasuke was on her left, and Sakura was at her blindside. Her only option was dimension shifting which wouldn't do anything since Sasuke had Amaterasu prepped.

Kabuto could have swung to the right, or left, or even backwards if he pleased.

keeping up with v2 jinchuuriki, keeping pace with 6th gate guy u know the usual.

The only one that can be considered faster than a Susano'o arrow is Gai, who wasn't even straight up speed blitzing anyone

So you're saying he can't open the first gate while sasuke is stringing the arrow? Hmm

I thought you meant after the arrow was shot, which was when Kakashi finally realized he was in danger, but even if he does do that, opening the 1st gate would leave him considerably drained which would slow him down.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

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but he still wasn't able to react. How is speech an accurate form of time perception? Especially when people we aren't able to tell how fast they're speaking.

Those are thought bubbles not speech bubbles. Two different things.

A weaker Itachi ofc.

what? Its the same edo itachi that fought naruto. Don't pull that bs.

Flying Shinobi would have the advantage, I suppose, but Itachi and Kabuto were both mid-air.

Itachi went for a blitz and missed, while kabuto was dangling to and fro and was at the mercy of gravity.

Bee did not react to FTG for 2 reasons

1) You need an instant reaction rate to react to instant. Bee already had his sword out signifying that he was ready for Minato

bee has no absolutely way of telling exactly where Minato is/would teleport, so him pointing his sword behind him means he reacted to minato teleporting behind him.

2) Itachi outpaced Bee, so if this were true Itachi would be faster than instant thereby breaking the laws of physics and destroying anybody he pleases.

I didn't know bee moved top speed when using 7 swordsmen style.... Oh wait he doesn't. Stop reaching.

And, how is Bee supposed to know that Sasuke was about to use Amaterasu when Sasuke himself didn't even know he had it until then?

at the time amaterasu was the only known long range ms attack.

Seeing blood in ones eye doesn't normally mean that someone is about to cast a Jutsu, especially when they were injured from earlier on.

Sasuke was never injured in his eye, and bee already established that he's uchiha.They're well known for eye techniques.

You speak of as if the crows were attacking Kabuto,

If theye weren't why'd he drop the sword?

when they were clearly there just to feint him.
Also, feinting a passive sensor, pretty impressive, no?

a pinned down sensor that has nowhere to go? Naww not that impressive

Where was Kaguya supposed to go?

anywhere but right and left.

The momentum of moving upwards prevented her from going down,

Actually she was falling down as a result of kamui raikiri.

Naruto was on her right, and Sasuke was on her left, and Sakura was at her blindside.

She isn't on a 2 dimensional plane. By moving forward, backwards, further down, diagonally whatever. In canon she's faster than both.

Her only option was dimension shifting which wouldn't do anything since Sasuke had Amaterasu prepped.

idk how ama protects from acid, heavy gravity, or lava but whatever, she could have made her portal and flew through it. Naruto and his clones were already proven to be too slow to follow her in and sasuke couldn't even react to them.

Kabuto could have swung to the right, or left, or even backwards if he pleased.

only by a certain distance since his tail was holding him back.

The only one that can be considered faster than a Susano'o arrow is Gai, who wasn't even straight up speed blitzing anyone

Naw kakashi too.

I thought you meant after the arrow was shot, which was when Kakashi finally realized he was in danger, but even if he does do that, opening the 1st gate would leave him considerably drained which would slow him down.

The only person who reacted after was kakashi, danzo took note of where sasuke was aiming it while falling and gave birth to a tree to change its direction, kabuto was aware of him pulling susanno and stringing the arrow b4 he dodged as well. So really and truly the only one with legitimate arrow reaction (and not anticipation) is kakashi, and bz/obito.