Who said Hiruzen was the strongest???

Who Agrees

  • I Agree Hashirama>Hiruzen

    Votes: 111 62.4%
  • I Disagree Hiruzen>Hashirama

    Votes: 47 26.4%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 20 11.2%

  • Total voters
    178

TheSages456

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Again with the ABC logic. What's clear is that Hashirama was the perfect shinobi interms of countering Madara's abilities.
no hashiramas abilities arent perfect for countering madaras. hashirama and madara had alot of encounters over their lifetime. you really think hashirama won every exchange.
 

ReapTermin

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

no hashiramas abilities arent perfect for countering madaras. hashirama and madara had alot of encounters over their lifetime. you really think hashirama won every exchange.
It's never stated that he didn't... so we must assume he did.
 

Raito

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

If we're going purely by the hype Kishimoto has given his characters in part 1, we can also agree that Jiraiya is superior to Itachi, though Kishimoto made us clear who's stronger by feats in part 2? I think Kishimoto made us in part 2 clear who are the really strongest by spreading reputation and hype to Madara and Hashirama so much.
 

Ryuu..

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Ok got me on this, but i quote my self :
Hiruzen was stated to be ( strongest kage ) not hokage by kabuto, as for as iruka's statement it's his opinion (1) and he was only boostin him infront of the academy kids, hiruzen said he's weaker than minato(2)... + That statement was contradictory, hiruzen told him to not use past tense so whe means that he's still the stronger, than a few chapters later he states that even he cant match Minato... (3)
Minato was STATED not said to have unrivaled strength when he appeared in the manga cover, that doesnt mean that he's the strongest, absolute statements don't exist when events are in constant evolution. ( arguing and conversation basics 1o1 )(4)
And basiclly following what you said, hashi' and tobirama had their own reflexes in that fight wich means an exploding paper would kill 1st and 2nd hokage who stood against the uchiha and marara, i dont know man... those reflexes were like puppet reflexes.(5)
Stop saying hiruzen would know hashi' weaknesses, cus hashi' would know hiruzen better as his master.(6)
+Hiruzen prime would have 5 in strength , speed( maybe), and stamina so he had all his jutsu's fightin orochimaru and he lost ( yep lost oro was alive an not hiruzen ) and tied with the hokages ( yep tied cus' they'r all dead ) .
What do we exactly know about hiruzen ?(7)
(1)So you choose Kabuto's opinion yet disregard Iruka's? Hmm I see.
(2)Hiruzen never claimed that Minato was better than his prime years, never.
(3)You've confused yourself.
(4)Nothing is clearer than 'He (Hiruzen) was the strongest Hokage'. There is no other way to interpret this. Also note that this was said after Minato's death.
(5)As has already been explained, that fight was down to part 1 power levels. If it was to take place in part 2, Hashirama and Tobirama would 'seem' stronger, but so would Hiruzen. It's all proportional.
(6)Possibly your worse point, Hashirama died long before Hiruzen's prime Hiruzen would've known everything about Hashirama. Hiruzen was a young man when Tobirama died, probably no older than 18. How can you possibly say Hashirama would know everything about Hiruzen?
(7)He defeated two former Hokage (who were under a perfect Edo Tensei) at age 69, that's what we know for sure.
 
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Baka Sennin

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

why exactly can't hiruzen defeat ems madara btw? the only techs which we've seen from ems madara are that huge fire tech, and hiruzen has an equally huge rock one. then there's susanoo, which can be countered with enma's diamond staff and yasanaka magatama, which can be countered with the diamond cage. hiruzen was also said to be very skilled with genjutsu, and he handled infinite darkness remarkably well, so he's no slacker in that department. apart from that, all madara's shown is rinnegan and mokuton techs, which he didn't have when he fought hashirama.
 

ReapTermin

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

that is nonsense. it was never stated that sakura couldnt use the 8 gates so we must assume she does.
U_U We can't assume she can because we've never seen her use that Tech before.

But we can assume Hashirama won all battles because he won the last one. Use present events to assume what happened in the past.

And I never said he did... I said "assume". Did or did not... that's up to Kishi to decide.
 

Houssem

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Never confused my self, never said strongest hokage he said ''strongest of all'
He didnt defeat them, he tied with them .
I dont accept if's i go with facts so assumptions about part one and 2 ? no.
Never said i agree with kabuto, i just quoted what he said to prove hiruzen was never claimed strongest hokage excpet for databooks.
You did explain evrything, but how about the contradictory part ' hiruzen contradicted himself so iruka's statement is f*cked.
Wait till manga proves you wrong again....
 

Blaze Release

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

I'm still not too sure. Both are pure hype as of now.
Tbh im not sure that people understand why hiruzen was said to be the strongest hokage. The reason is because he knows the strength and weaknesses of his former teachers to best them majority of the time in a fight. Secondly he mastered all the techniques of konoha. I figured out what this meant. Once you become hokage you get available loads of scrolls with techniques at your disposal. One of these scrolls i believe belonged to hashirama and that was what naruto stole at the very beginning of the manga. Hiruzen had the opportunity to master all those techniques something i dont believe hashirama or tobirama himself did. Because the senju were noted to be a clan who specialised in all forms of ninja art hashirama and tobirama the strongest of the clan mastered this forms of ninja art and passed them down to hiruzen who further developed and improved. In the databook he is the only ninja even in old age to get the max for all 3 forms of ninja art.

So he knows their strengths and weaknesses but has also improved on their techniques excluding mokouton obviously, thats why he is the strongest hokage. Its due to this reason why if they were to fight he would beat them majority of the times. His hype of being the strongest hokage is confined only when speaking of the hokages. If were to take this further and bring 10 elite ninja's for hashirama and hiruzen to fight. I believe hashirama would beat majority of the 10 than hiruzen.

Hope you get what im trying to say, his hype of being the strongest is confined to the hokages only. Whilst hashirama's hype is on a larger scale
 
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ReapTermin

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?



look right over here
Those are used as shells for the Soul of the one who will be revived. Once the Souls is revived, the power and all the Techs of the revived are restored to what they were before death.
 
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Raito

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

(1)So you choose Kabuto's opinion yet disregard Iruka's? Hmm I see.
(2)Hiruzen never claimed that Minato was better than his prime years, never.
(3)You've confused yourself.
(4)Nothing is clearer than 'He (Hiruzen) was the strongest Hokage'. There is no other way to interpret this. Also note that this was said after Minato's death.
(5)As has already been explained, that fight was down to part 1 power levels. If it was to take place in part 2, Hashirama and Tobirama would 'seem' stronger, but so would Hiruzen. It's all proportional.
(6)Possibly your worse point, Hashirama died long before Hiruzen's prime Hiruzen would've known everything about Hashirama. Hiruzen was a young man when Tobirama died, probably no older than 18. How can you possibly say Hashirama would know everything about Hiruzen?
(7)He defeated two former Hokage (who were under a perfect Edo Tensei) at age 69, that's what we know for sure.
This is just how Kishimotos ideas were going in part 1. Though Hashirama is a god in part 2 who was considered a fairy tale if the speak was about his powers, the third Hokage was in the foreground in part 1. The matter is just that Kishimoto doesn't paid any attentions to the first and second Hokage then, he spreaded his hype to the ones who were a part of the current story. Hashiramas and Madaras time came much later. I agree Hiruzen would be stronger in part 2 too 'cause the power level is higher there, but we should keep on Kishimotos newest representations. This is just as my example with Jiraiya, who was considered to be stronger than Itachi in part 1, though we know who's the superior one now.
 

Talal

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Dan has never seen Hashirama fight. He just assumed that because Hashirama "defeated" Madara before. Also who's to say he ever saw prime Hiruzen fight, his opinion is invalid.
 

Ryuu..

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Never confused my self, never said strongest hokage he said ''strongest of all'
He didnt defeat them, he tied with them .
I dont accept if's i go with facts so assumptions about part one and 2 ? no.
Never said i agree with kabuto, i just quoted what he said to prove hiruzen was never claimed strongest hokage excpet for databooks.
You did explain evrything, but how about the contradictory part ' hiruzen contradicted himself so iruka's statement is f*cked.
Wait till manga proves you wrong again....
Ok so Diedara is stronger than all part 1 characters? Nonsense.
 

Naruto9001

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

It surprises me how Kabuto in part 1 said Hiruzen was the strongest of the hokages but then in part 2 never even mentions Hiruzen and says Hashirama's power is like a fairytale this is just one of the retcon's Kishi's doing i bet he forgot all about how strong he made Hiruzen out to be in part 1.
 

quinaboy13

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Those are used as shells for the Soul of the one who will be revived. Once the Souls is revived, the power and all the Techs of the revived are restored to what they were before death.
ah thnks for information:)
 

Ryuu..

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Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

This is just how Kishimotos ideas were going in part 1. Though Hashirama is a god in part 2 who was considered a fairy tale if the speak was about his powers, the third Hokage was in the foreground in part 1. The matter is just that Kishimoto doesn't paid any attentions to the first and second Hokage then, he spreaded his hype to the ones who were a part of the current story. Hashiramas and Madaras time came much later. I agree Hiruzen would be stronger in part 2 too 'cause the power level is higher there, but we should keep on Kishimotos newest representations. This is just as my example with Jiraiya, who was considered to be stronger than Itachi in part 1, though we know who's the superior one now.
Of course, I accept Kishi's ideas and statements from part 2. However, i'm not convinced that enough has been said, as of yet, to override the hype Hiruzen was given in part 1. Not yet.
 
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