Who said Hiruzen was the strongest???

[UnrealSoul]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Are you SERIOUSLY , using abc logic in naruto?

1) Has hiruzen fought madara already? Does he know ANYTHING about madara's abilities? does he have knowledge of his fighting style, anything?

What's the difference between fighting madara and hashirama?
Well ,1 ) Hiruzen was TAUGHT by hashirama, knows ALL his jutsu , his style of fighting, and every other possible thing that could be used in the fight...

Just because hiruzen can beat hashirama, does not mean he can beat madara..

Just like just because gai can beat kisame, and kakashi can possibly beat gai, it doesn't mean kakashi can beat kisame..

Hiruzen was simply trained by the first and 2nd, and supposedly surpassed them boths in ninjtusu, taijutsu and genjutsu.. he's just better than them...



The edo tensei's weren't even weaker.. they look weaker because of the change from part 1 to part 2.... Orochimaru's edo tensei's were perfected..., power levels just changed.. which is how flower world etc came into play... back in part 1 , tobirama's biggest feat was spitting water from his mouth and making a water jutsu.. which had orochimaru and the anbu people in awe...
Now i can call like 100 ninjas who did that exact same thing in part 2...

I've said already if kishi rewrote that, it would be different of course.. But it's the feat you have to look at... Old hiruzen still bested 2 perfected Edo tensei's.... that's like kakashi going up against edo muu and mizukage, without them speaking and telling him their weaknesses

Agreed...

First of all i believe what dan said because he was around during sarutobi's prime i believe because its during this time that He and Tsuande were together and Tsunade was sarutobi's student. But lets not get carried away, although i do believe ems madara will beat prime sarutobi and dan has confirmed this what he said shouldnt cloud your judgement. Its due to hashirama's unique abilities that allowed him to defeat madara.

So whilst prime sarutobi may not be able to beat madara, he can beat hashirama. He was his student, he will know his strength and weaknesses. An example is how he figured out the bringer of darkness weakness which is that apart from your eyes which has been blinded all your other senses are activate and its due to this that he was able to use his sense of smell to figure out where hashirama is. Secondly enma is a very good counter fo mokouton and we saw this. He was able to transform into a cage which protected sarutobi, but also with one swoop made hashirama's mokouton look like a twig

Agreed...

Wanna know why... Because Hashirama already defeated Madara so the first thing that comes to mind after the person was already defeated is to have the same person fight again.

But then explain why Hiruzen was able to defeat edo-Hashirama? granted Hashirama just would come back to gather since his soul was bound to the world. But Hiruzen technically defeated Hashirama and 2nd Hokage while fighting Oro as well while not in his prime so that's just a clue.

And agreed.

Major retards on these forums that use abc logic :sy:...sad :flaw:

 

[midobeast123]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

I'm talking about Prime Hiruzen. He was not Prime in that fight.

Don't give me :sy:. Look at your Title... I responded to that. Think before commenting.

sorry but u really shouldnt bed making threads like this if we dont know the power of prime hiruzen

 

[icha icha naruto]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Hashirama's major strengths are his kekkai genkai , his healing abilities, controlling fox etc.
Hiruzen may be taught by the first, but he lacks those extra benefits. So I can't see Hiruzen being better than Madara or Hashirama.

 

[YourMom]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Kabutos edos do talk?

 

[Owarij]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Kabutos edos do talk?

He let them talk because it might have caused some emotional warfare with the people they was fighting with... Oro didn't let his talk

Nope, but what feats did Prime Hiruzen have? Just hype. I'll continue to compare nothing with something sir.

Unlike this "Prime tobi" hiruzen has hype, which is still a part of his story.. Feats ARE NOT always better than hype, they correlate and compliment each other...All white fang has is hype, but you wouldn't dare say he is better than ten ten who only has feats right? Hiruzen's prime has hype that is beyond that of the hokages...

The ONLY person to EVER say hiruzen was a god was orochimaru and he said it because Hiruzen knew so many jutsu. How does that mean its true? Certain people think Nagato was an unkillable god. Some people think Minato was the strongest. You cannot go off of someone's opinion and then say we have no logic?! That in itself is a logical Fallacy.

No one in the manga thought Minato was the strongest....A's statement was changed by Viz to "A noble man, a finer shinobi never existed" , which talks about his qualities as a person and ninja.... Wtf? are you saying hiruzen didn't know all those jutsu? read the databooks and you'll see many times it was stated that he got the name from his skill in ninjutsu..

 

[WhiteLightning]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

I realize Hiruzen was called the strongest hokage on different occasions. That was part 1 though. This comment seems to confirm the retcon. I see no other way of looking at it.



"I'm afraid only nobody but the deceased first hokage...can defeat Madara."

This comment was made by Dan. Dan lived through Prime Hiruzen's reign. Yet he believes only Hashirama is capable of defeating Madara. The only hokage who should be excluded is Minato due to Dan dying when Minato was very young. So, how can Hiruzen be stronger after such a comment?

Although i don't think hiruzen can defeat hashi, just cause hashi can defeat madara doesn't mean hiruzen couldn't defeat hashi. That logic doesn't work in naruto this isn't dbz

 

[Sonin]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

He let them talk because it might have caused some emotional warfare with the people they was fighting with... Oro didn't let his talk





Unlike this "Prime tobi" hiruzen has hype, which is still a part of his story.. Feats ARE NOT always better than hype, they correlate and compliment each other...All white fang has is hype, but you wouldn't dare say he is better than ten ten who only has feats right? Hiruzen's prime has hype that is beyond that of the hokages...


No one in the manga thought Minato was the strongest....A's statement was changed by Viz to "A noble man, a finer shinobi never existed" , which talks about his qualities as a person and ninja.... Wtf? are you saying hiruzen didn't know all those jutsu? read the databooks and you'll see many times it was stated that he got the name from his skill in ninjutsu..

..... No he got professor from his ninjutsu. Kakashi and many others have said only naruto can surpass the 4th... Check your shit.

 

[Son of God]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

He let them talk because it might have caused some emotional warfare with the people they was fighting with... Oro didn't let his talk





Unlike this "Prime tobi" hiruzen has hype, which is still a part of his story.. Feats ARE NOT always better than hype, they correlate and compliment each other...All white fang has is hype, but you wouldn't dare say he is better than ten ten who only has feats right? Hiruzen's prime has hype that is beyond that of the hokages...


No one in the manga thought Minato was the strongest....A's statement was changed by Viz to "A noble man, a finer shinobi never existed" , which talks about his qualities as a person and ninja.... Wtf? are you saying hiruzen didn't know all those jutsu? read the databooks and you'll see many times it was stated that he got the name from his skill in ninjutsu..

Hey dude, you never showed me those databook pages where kishi directly states Hiruzen is the best. Please do, my good child.

 

[BloodSeed]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

He let them talk because it might have caused some emotional warfare with the people they was fighting with... Oro didn't let his talk





Unlike this "Prime tobi" hiruzen has hype, which is still a part of his story.. Feats ARE NOT always better than hype, they correlate and compliment each other...All white fang has is hype, but you wouldn't dare say he is better than ten ten who only has feats right? Hiruzen's prime has hype that is beyond that of the hokages...


No one in the manga thought Minato was the strongest....A's statement was changed by Viz to "A noble man, a finer shinobi never existed" , which talks about his qualities as a person and ninja.... Wtf? are you saying hiruzen didn't know all those jutsu? read the databooks and you'll see many times it was stated that he got the name from his skill in ninjutsu..

dafaq? even in the viz manga said it "A noble man, a finer shinobi never existed" a finer shinobi NEVER existed....a finer shinobi NEVER existed....a finer shinobi NEVER existed....a finer shinobi NEVER existed....a finer shinobi NEVER existed....a finer shinobi NEVER existed.... what in the hell is that mean to you?

 

[MadaraHashirama]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Hey dude, you never showed me those databook pages where kishi directly states Hiruzen is the best. Please do, my good child.

You see, this is why I just had to add you into my friendslist and why I mentioned your name in a few threads as a really good debater.

 

[Owarij]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Hey dude, you never showed me those databook pages where kishi directly states Hiruzen is the best. Please do, my good child.

There is no direct statement from kishi saying it, kishi put in the databooks however he was hailed and praised as the strongest hokage due to his strength.. And iruka said the same... There is a reason that ninjas from all over , elder etc thought of hiruzen as the strongest hokage, and god of shinobi...
Just like the elders of sunagakure have a reason to believe the third kazekage was the strongest kazekage.. I have no reason to dispute that... Just as he has hype as being the strongest.. so does hiruzen

 

[Maunten]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Feats

Hashi, Hiru and Minato are ridiculous shino, I won't say either is better than the other, minato died before his prime, yeah he was strong but he could have learned a lot more jutsu before he died, Hiru stronger than most prime kage at age 70, he would witout a doubt be a beast at prime, Hiru has been seen in his prime and is a one man world war, taking on the strongest tailed beast with his chakra alone.

Edo madara is stronger than them all, but not all at once.

I honestly think minato would beat hiru in a

 

[ReapTermin]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

You see, this is why I just had to add you into my friendslist and why I mentioned your name in a few threads as a really good debater.

Databooks are not everything. Sometimes you have to pay close attention to what is being said in the Manga.

 

[Steinbiz]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

like I've said many many many times before. Naruto is NOT DragonBall Z....
It's not "A>B>C=A>C", it's more like "rock-paper-scissors".
Maybe Hashirama is the only one who can stop Madara one on one. Because he probably has the necessary abilities to do this. Just because he has the proper techniques to take down a certain ninja, doesn't make him stronger than Hiruzen.

Like how Madara, Hashirama, Killer Bee and Yagura are said to be the only ones who can control tailed beasts perfectly, doesn't mean they're strong. That's just a special technique they have. Hashirama's ability to subdue Kurama would be completely useless against people like Hiruzen or Minato.

 

[MadaraHashirama]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

There is no direct statement from kishi saying it, kishi put in the databooks however he was hailed and praised as the strongest hokage due to his strength.. And iruka said the same... There is a reason that ninjas from all over , elder etc thought of hiruzen as the strongest hokage, and god of shinobi...
Just like the elders of sunagakure have a reason to believe the third kazekage was the strongest kazekage.. I have no reason to dispute that... Just as he has hype as being the strongest.. so does hiruzen

Pretty ironic how every Hokage has gotten hype from the "people" as the strongest, "people" also called Hashirama Senju the strongest Shinobi, people called Tobirama the best/greatest Shinobi during that time, people admired Hiruzen as the God of Shinobi or even called him the strongest, people said that Minato is unrivalled, unsurpassable...

This kinda leads me to believe that Hype from normal people or fodder Shinobi's isn't really a proper source to determine one's strength, a better source is to rely on hype by stronger Shinobi's, like Kabuto or Madara or perhaps Jiraiya and A.

Databooks are not everything. Sometimes you have to pay close attention to what is being said in the Manga.

Ironically, some people take the Databooks as God's words, I am the one here thinking that Databooks mostly revolves around what is said in the Manga.

And apparently the Third Databook has seemed to forget mentioning Hiruzen is the strongest (Hokage/God of Shinobi)

 

[Steinbiz]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Pretty ironic how every Hokage has gotten hype from the "people" as the strongest, "people" also called Hashirama Senju the strongest Shinobi, people called Tobirama the best/greatest Shinobi during that time, people admired Hiruzen as the God of Shinobi or even called him the strongest, people said that Minato is unrivalled, unsurpassable...

This kinda leads me to believe that Hype from normal people or fodder Shinobi's isn't really a proper source to determine one's strength, a better source is to rely on hype by stronger Shinobi's, like Kabuto or Madara or perhaps Jiraiya and A.



Ironically, some people take the Databooks as God's words, I am the one here thinking that Databooks mostly revolves around what is said in the Manga.

exactly, if you are listening to Iruka's opinion of the strongest Hokage, you're doing it wrong, LOL. Iruka's idea of strong is 1000 years of death. If Minato heard Iruka say Hiruzen was the strongest, Minato would chuckle as he walks away telling Jiraiya how stupid people in the Leaf are becoming.

 

[Maunten]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

exactly, if you are listening to Iruka's opinion of the strongest Hokage, you're doing it wrong, LOL. Iruka's idea of strong is 1000 years of death. If Minato heard Iruka say Hiruzen was the strongest, Minato would chuckle as he walks away telling Jiraiya how stupid people in the Leaf are becoming.

Minato would kill Edo madara, the issue with killing Edo madara atm is getting close fast enough, getting that out of the way will allow him to plan for more important things.

 

[BloodSeed]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Another illogical argument... Does tobi prime has any feats or hype? Great. Then you can't compare nothing with something....

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only naruto could stop him when he can control the fox power

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he is more a greater danger than the fox if he isnt stop NOW

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the world will bow to his will someday, if he takes the fox power
minato confirmed he wasnt lying.

that was his hypes if he reaches his prime

 

[TobisPawn]

Re: Those who believe Prime Hiruzen > Hashirama; How do you explain this comment?

Hashirama fought Madara his entire life, and was adapted to his techniques and weaknesses.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Are people seriously going to still say Hiruzen>Hashirama?

If you haven't read the recent chapter then I suggest you leave.

Anyway if you guys still believe so then I can only laugh at you.

What's Hiruzen got compared to this?

Spoiler

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Hashirama actually managed to beat this.