Which Villains are still blatantly Evil?

Wind Squid

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Remember the time when Orochimaru was like this [video=youtube;k7SmvLQ-4Jw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7SmvLQ-4Jw[/video] ??

Pure, unsubtle, unshamed, unaltered evil.

and now people are talking about how he's going to turn goody-2-shoes and make up for his past crimes because he's working towards saving the village from Madara (who also wants to "save the world" in his own merit)

What i'm asking is...where are all the villains who are actually malevolent, greedy, selfish and..well..are bad people?
Most of Naruto villains got retconned into these "Poor little, misunderstood, misfortunate souls that went along the wrong path" or something.

Here's the list of the retconns in no particular order:

- Momochi Zabuza
- Uchiha Itachi
- Hanzou
- Danzou
- Gaara's dad
- Yakushi Kabuto
- Hoshigaki Kisame
- Kimimaro
- Konan
- Nagato
- Zetsu
- Gaara
- Nine-tailed-fox demon
- Uchiha Madara
- Sasori
- Tobito
- Orochimaru (?)
- Sasuke (?)
- Suigetsu (?)


And here's the list of un-retconned baddies:

- Hidan
- Kakuzu
- Mizuki
- Deidara
- Gatou
- 6 swordsmen (except Ringo, she seemed to possess some positive traits)
- Shukaku
- 4 Oto Nin


I'll update the list in time​
 

YellowFang

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Orochimaru, he still is the demon in that field...
 

Sot viing hun

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Notice how all the ''pure evil'' villains are dead except Mizuki which will be converted by default and Shukaku, a tailed beast that once was a cutie with no evil intentions and just hates the humans because of how they treated him, easily convertable by the hero just like every other tailed beast。
Oh and Hidan is alive but incapacitated and irrelevant so I don't know about that one。

I hope Orochimaru is still evil and just waiting for the opportunity to take control。
 
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Draw

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idk but if obito gets tnj'd or dies a good guy i will be pissed as fcuk. when we just had pain and tobi as the two main bad guys i was like ight pain is convertible which is cool its natural for the bad guys to convert, but tobi is pure evil i wanna see him fight naruto to the very end! and now i find out he is obito and that just foreshadows him being a good guy again unless kishimoto does a better job. so now its like the same situation with tobi and pain, and obito and madara. I'm pissed man I'm so pissed obito needs to remain being tobi and not a good guy....but i love how obito ended up being tobi its such a plot twist and its brilliant character development.
 
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Wind Squid

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Notice how all the ''pure evil'' villains are dead except Mizuki which will be converted by default and Shukaku, a tailed beast that once was a cutie with no evil intentions and just hates the humans because of how they treated him, easily convertable by the hero just like every other tailed beast。
Oh and Hidan is alive but incapacitated and irrelevant so I don't know about that one。

I hope Orochimaru is still evil and just waiting for the opportunity to take control。

Welp, more than half of my "retconned" villains are pretty dead too, doesn't really MEAN anything, don't know where you were going with that. And there had been no word about Mizuki or Hidan development whatsoever. Oh and Shukaku is a crazy-antisocial-destructive loonattic, i doubt he's going to be converted due to him being the "special bijuu" of the group n' all. All is possible though.

And with the current "Everyone is a good guy!" Kishi-theme going on in recent 100 chapters i predict Orochimaru going on a selfless sacrifice in front of his sensei or something
 

SilverDuck

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There is no such thing as "pure evil", or "pure good". As much as we'd like to believe that reality is always black and white, that isn't the case. All of it is relative. Good and bad, sweet and sour, pretty and ugly, right or wrong. It all depends on who you ask, and what their perceptions are. There is ALWAYS a gray area, if you think critically. Some here say that Itachi is an evil monster, and it doesn't matter that he slaughtered his own family for peace. To them, it is absolutely inexcusable. To others, it is excusable, and they don't think he is a villain at all. Even in more extreme cases, like Orochimaru. In my own opinion, he is the closest thing to "evil" in the series. Or, he was. He didn't have an excuse for being so twisted like the other villains do. He doesn't give a single **** about anybody, other than himself, and he is willing to kill women or children who stand in his way. For personal gain, not the "greater good". Even with him, there is gray if you dig deep enough. Not a lot about his past has been revealed, but he clearly had a very difficult, painful upbringing. All people are born with a clean state. When you're born, you cannot conceptualize right from wrong, or good from evil. You're LITERALLY a blank page, waiting to be written on. Even Hitler was an innocent child at some point in his life. Why did he become what he became? Only he truly knows the answer to that, but it's safe to assume he didn't have the happiest childhood.

So, Orochimaru is my pick for "most evil" in this series. In Bleach, I go with Aizen. Completely self absorbed, and driven to achieve his goal no matter what the cost. Even betraying his own subordinates the moment he no longer needed them. People who literally worshipped and idolized the guy. And what he did to Hinamori is one of the most evil things I have ever seen in an anime, if not THE most evil. It was proof that he does take great joy in the suffering he causes. After listening to Toshiro's rant, and knowing how much he cared for Hinamori, he goes out of his way to have Toshiro run her through with his own sword. For no reason other than to hurt him even more. He enjoys causing pain before slaughtering hordes of people. His relationship with Hinamori is the best example of an "evil" deed. I mean leading her to believe that he's some great man, and going as far as to make her literally obsess over him. Knowing she wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her own life for his. After betraying her, and leaving her for dead, he STILL has her closest friend stab her from behind.... Yeah, the guys a really ****ing psycho. But we don't know his past. It would take a lot to get me to believe he was justified in anyway, but it is possible.
 

Sot viing hun

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Welp, more than half of my "retconned" villains are pretty dead too, doesn't really MEAN anything, don't know where you were going with that. And there had been no word about Mizuki or Hidan development whatsoever. Oh and Shukaku is a crazy-antisocial-destructive loonattic, i doubt he's going to be converted due to him being the "special bijuu" of the group n' all. All is possible though.

And with the current "Everyone is a good guy!" Kishi-theme going on in recent 100 chapters i predict Orochimaru going on a selfless sacrifice in front of his sensei or something

I was actually agreeing with you ・・・。

About Shukaku, it's damn obvious it's been retconned just like Kurama, he was a cutie with no evil intentions as I said, he was just mistreated and needs someone to led him down the right path like every other tailed beast。

I really want Orochimaru to stay evil, it would be such an eyesore to see him sacrificing himself like that, just imagining it makes me shiver・・・ but it's probably going to happen because he has a sob story behind。
 

Wind Squid

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There is no such thing as "pure evil", or "pure good". As much as we'd like to believe that reality is always black and white, that isn't the case. All of it is relative. Good and bad, sweet and sour, pretty and ugly, right or wrong. It all depends on who you ask, and what their perceptions are. There is ALWAYS a gray area, if you think critically. Some here say that Itachi is an evil monster, and it doesn't matter that he slaughtered his own family for peace. To them, it is absolutely inexcusable. To others, it is excusable, and they don't think he is a villain at all. Even in more extreme cases, like Orochimaru. In my own opinion, he is the closest thing to "evil" in the series. Or, he was. He didn't have an excuse for being so twisted like the other villains do. He doesn't give a single **** about anybody, other than himself, and he is willing to kill women or children who stand in his way. For personal gain, not the "greater good". Even with him, there is gray if you dig deep enough. Not a lot about his past has been revealed, but he clearly had a very difficult, painful upbringing. All people are born with a clean state. When you're born, you cannot conceptualize right from wrong, or good from evil. You're LITERALLY a blank page, waiting to be written on. Even Hitler was an innocent child at some point in his life. Why did he become what he became? Only he truly knows the answer to that, but it's safe to assume he didn't have the happiest childhood.

So, Orochimaru is my pick for "most evil" in this series. In Bleach, I go with Aizen. Completely self absorbed, and driven to achieve his goal no matter what the cost. Even betraying his own subordinates the moment he no longer needed them. People who literally worshipped and idolized the guy. And what he did to Hinamori is one of the most evil things I have ever seen in an anime, if not THE most evil. It was proof that he does take great joy in the suffering he causes. After listening to Toshiro's rant, and knowing how much he cared for Hinamori, he goes out of his way to have Toshiro run her through with his own sword. For no reason other than to hurt him even more. He enjoys causing pain before slaughtering hordes of people. His relationship with Hinamori is the best example of an "evil" deed. I mean leading her to believe that he's some great man, and going as far as to make her literally obsess over him. Knowing she wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice her own life for his. After betraying her, and leaving her for dead, he STILL has her closest friend stab her from behind.... Yeah, the guys a really ****ing psycho. But we don't know his past. It would take a lot to get me to believe he was justified in anyway, but it is possible.



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There are still plenty of naturally greedy, selfish and "evil" people out there. True they're not "biblical evil" or anything and they STILL MAY HAVE a positive trait or two, (Like Chikatilo or Hitler) but that's beyond the point
 

Wind Squid

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I was actually agreeing with you ・・・。

About Shukaku, it's damn obvious it's been retconned just like Kurama, he was a cutie with no evil intentions as I said, he was just mistreated and needs someone to led him down the right path like every other tailed beast。

I really want Orochimaru to stay evil, it would be such an eyesore to see him sacrificing himself like that, just imagining it makes me shiver・・・ but it's probably going to happen。

Well i wasn't ****ing bashing on you or anything so no need to cuss, fool ya' fool

We haven't seen Shukaku's babyfaec yet, so we have only 8 confirmed, retconned bijuus, yo
To think that we went from this
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to this
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And Orochimaru's been cartoonishly evil ever since his first appereance so he's going to be retconned. Deal with this rotten development
 
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SilverDuck

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There are still plenty of naturally greedy, selfish and "evil" people out there. True they're not "biblical evil" or anything and they STILL MAY HAVE a positive trait or two, (Like Chikatilo or Hitler) but that's beyond the point


Is this a joke, or a real response? Are you trying to tell me that an infant born mere seconds ago is already selfish, and bad? Are you incapable of critical thought? Did you really not read my post? My point is that, in the US, you'd say that anybody who rapes and murders a child evil, correct? That's our perception. Why is it, though? Everything is relative, and contrasting. Since you didn't create existence, YOU cannot decide what is and is not evil. You can have your opinion on what it, and is not evil, but nothing more. Just because you believe something is evil doesn't mean that EVERYBODY in existence agrees with you. There is absolutely no action anybody could possibly take to make every conscious being in the entire multiverse to think it was evil. Just because only 1 out of 0928374508974590872309485708932458-71659872365045023458 disagrees doesn't make him wrong. It only means that he has a different perception on things. Opinions are opinions. You can't argue opinions. You can only argue facts. The fact is that absolutely nothing that has ever existed, or will ever exist, will be either fully evil, or fully good.
 

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The line is much more blurry in some cases, but it still exists.
 

Wind Squid

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Is this a joke, or a real response? Are you trying to tell me that an infant born mere seconds ago is already selfish, and bad? Are you incapable of critical thought? Did you really not read my post? My point is that, in the US, you'd say that anybody who rapes and murders a child evil, correct? That's our perception. Why is it, though? Everything is relative, and contrasting. Since you didn't create existence, YOU cannot decide what is and is not evil. You can have your opinion on what it, and is not evil, but nothing more. Just because you believe something is evil doesn't mean that EVERYBODY in existence agrees with you. There is absolutely no action anybody could possibly take to make every conscious being in the entire multiverse to think it was evil. Just because only 1 out of 0928374508974590872309485708932458-71659872365045023458 disagrees doesn't make him wrong. It only means that he has a different perception on things. Opinions are opinions. You can't argue opinions. You can only argue facts. The fact is that absolutely nothing that has ever existed, or will ever exist, will be either fully evil, or fully good.

In order to understand absolute or universal truth, we must begin by defining truth. Truth, according to the dictionary, is “conformity to fact or actuality; a statement proven to be or accepted as true.” Some people would say that there is no true reality, only perceptions and opinions. Others would argue that there must be some absolute reality or truth.

One view says that there are no absolutes that define reality. Those who hold this view believe everything is relative to something else, and thus there can be no actual reality. Because of that, there are ultimately no moral absolutes, no authority for deciding if an action is positive or negative, right or wrong. This view leads to “situational ethics,” the belief that what is right or wrong is relative to the situation. There is no right or wrong; therefore, whatever feels or seems right at the time and in that situation is right. Of course, situational ethics leads to a subjective, “whatever feels good” mentality and lifestyle, which has a devastating effect on society and individuals. This is postmodernism, creating a society that regards all values, beliefs, lifestyles, and truth claims as equally valid.

The other view holds that there are indeed absolute realities and standards that define what is true and what is not. Therefore, actions can be determined to be either right or wrong by how they measure up to those absolute standards. If there are no absolutes, no reality, chaos ensues. Take the law of gravity, for instance. If it were not an absolute, we could not be certain we could stand or sit in one place until we decided to move. Or if two plus two did not always equal four, the effects on civilization would be disastrous. Laws of science and physics would be irrelevant, and commerce would be impossible. What a mess that would be! Thankfully, two plus two does equal four. There is absolute truth, and it can be found and understood.

To make the statement that there is no absolute truth is illogical. Yet, today, many people are embracing a cultural relativism that denies any type of absolute truth. A good question to ask people who say, “There is no absolute truth” is this: “Are you absolutely sure of that?” If they say “yes,” they have made an absolute statement—which itself implies the existence of absolutes. They are saying that the very fact there is no absolute truth is the one and only absolute truth.

Beside the problem of self-contradiction, there are several other logical problems one must overcome to believe that there are no absolute or universal truths. One is that all humans have limited knowledge and finite minds and, therefore, cannot logically make absolute negative statements. A person cannot logically say, “There is no God” (even though many do so), because, in order to make such a statement, he would need to have absolute knowledge of the entire universe from beginning to end. Since that is impossible, the most anyone can logically say is “With the limited knowledge I have, I do not believe there is a God.”

Another problem with the denial of absolute truth/universal truth is that it fails to live up to what we know to be true in our own consciences, our own experiences, and what we see in the real world. If there is no such thing as absolute truth, then there is nothing ultimately right or wrong about anything. What might be “right” for you does not mean it is “right” for me. While on the surface this type of relativism seems to be appealing, what it means is that everybody sets his own rules to live by and does what he thinks is right. Inevitably, one person’s sense of right will soon clash with another’s. What happens if it is “right” for me to ignore traffic lights, even when they are red? I put many lives at risk. Or I might think it is right to steal from you, and you might think it is not right. Clearly, our standards of right and wrong are in conflict. If there is no absolute truth, no standard of right and wrong that we are all accountable to, then we can never be sure of anything. People would be free to do whatever they want—murder, rape, steal, lie, cheat, etc., and no one could say those things would be wrong. There could be no government, no laws, and no justice, because one could not even say that the majority of the people have the right to make and enforce standards upon the minority. A world without absolutes would be the most horrible world imaginable.

From a spiritual standpoint, this type of relativism results in religious confusion, with no one true religion and no way of having a right relationship with God. All religions would therefore be false because they all make absolute claims regarding the afterlife. It is not uncommon today for people to believe that two diametrically opposed religions could both be equally “true,” even though both religions claim to have the only way to heaven or teach two totally opposite “truths.” People who do not believe in absolute truth ignore these claims and embrace a more tolerant universalism that teaches all religions are equal and all roads lead to heaven. People who embrace this worldview vehemently oppose evangelical Christians who believe the Bible when it says that Jesus is “the way, and the truth, and the life” and that He is the ultimate manifestation of truth and the only way one can get to heaven (John 14:6).

Tolerance has become the one cardinal virtue of the postmodern society, the one absolute, and, therefore, intolerance is the only evil. Any dogmatic belief—especially a belief in absolute truth—is viewed as intolerance, the ultimate sin. Those who deny absolute truth will often say that it is all right to believe what you want, as long as you do not try to impose your beliefs on others. But this view itself is a belief about what is right and wrong, and those who hold this view most definitely do try to impose it on others. They set up a standard of behavior which they insist others follow, thereby violating the very thing they claim to uphold—another self-contradicting position. Those who hold such a belief simply do not want to be accountable for their actions. If there is absolute truth, then there are absolute standards of right and wrong, and we are accountable to those standards. This accountability is what people are really rejecting when they reject absolute truth.

The denial of absolute truth/universal truth and the cultural relativism that comes with it are the logical result of a society that has embraced the theory of evolution as the explanation for life. If naturalistic evolution is true, then life has no meaning, we have no purpose, and there cannot be any absolute right or wrong. Man is then free to live as he pleases and is accountable to no one for his actions. Yet no matter how much sinful men deny the existence of God and absolute truth, they still will someday stand before Him in judgment. The Bible declares that “…what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools” (Romans 1:19-22).

Is there any evidence for the existence of absolute truth? Yes. First, there is the human conscience, that certain “something” within us that tells us the world should be a certain way, that some things are right and some are wrong. Our conscience convinces us there is something wrong with suffering, starvation, rape, pain, and evil, and it makes us aware that love, generosity, compassion, and peace are positive things for which we should strive. This is universally true in all cultures in all times. The Bible describes the role of the human conscience in Romans 2:14-16: “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”

The second evidence for the existence of absolute truth is science. Science is simply the pursuit of knowledge, the study of what we know and the quest to know more. Therefore, all scientific study must by necessity be founded upon the belief that there are objective realities existing in the world and these realities can be discovered and proven. Without absolutes, what would there be to study? How could one know that the findings of science are real? In fact, the very laws of science are founded on the existence of absolute truth.

The third evidence for the existence of absolute truth/universal truth is religion. All the religions of the world attempt to give meaning and definition to life. They are born out of mankind’s desire for something more than simple existence. Through religion, humans seek God, hope for the future, forgiveness of sins, peace in the midst of struggle, and answers to our deepest questions. Religion is really evidence that mankind is more than just a highly evolved animal. It is evidence of a higher purpose and of the existence of a personal and purposeful Creator who implanted in man the desire to know Him. And if there is indeed a Creator, then He becomes the standard for absolute truth, and it is His authority that establishes that truth.
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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Deidara is a twisted bastard. Someone who abandoned reason and sense for their sick addiction for destruction, there's no goodness in there.
 

Wind Squid

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Deidara is a twisted bastard. Someone who abandoned reason and sense for their sick addiction for destruction, there's no goodness in there.

i see where you're going with that but Remember? Deidara actually cared about Tobi so much....that he mentally asked for his forgiveness for accidently killing him via his suicide attempt....yeah, i'm adding Deidara to the list
 

Bad Touch Yakushi

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i see where you're going with that but Remember? Deidara actually cared about Tobi so much....that he mentally asked for his forgiveness for accidently killing him via his suicide attempt....yeah, i'm adding Deidara to the list

Deidara grew quite attached to him sure but Deidara was young, he didn't have to wear a long black fringe and talk about "his distant past" to be evil, he's just genuinely f*cked up. To become emotionally dependant on something like an explosion is not natural and that's just a tint of genuine evil in there. (no matter the level of reasoning he tries to make up about it being artistic really takes away from the fact that he adores destruction)

Deidaras in there for sure, it's why him & Hidan make such a good duo IMO.
 

Wind Squid

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Deidara grew quite attached to him sure but Deidara was young, he didn't have to wear a long black fringe and talk about "his distant past" to be evil, he's just genuinely f*cked up. To become emotionally dependant on something like an explosion is not natural and that's just a tint of genuine evil in there. (no matter the level of reasoning he tries to make up about it being artistic really takes away from the fact that he adores destruction)

Deidaras in there for sure, it's why him & Hidan make such a good duo IMO.

Maybe he's just a loon y'know, being more focused on showing-off, rather than the actual battle lol
 
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