ComplexCity
Banned
Why won't you go read the thread? I'm not repeating something that has already been posted on the site. There were links given and Hawker had no counter to the points
What if science worked like religion?
- Thread starter Hawker
- Start date
First of all, Richard Dawkins isn't an 'expert' on anything - he's just a popular media figure who's achieved popular fame for attacking religion, and who happens to have a few biology degrees. Taking Dawkins to represent the current state of knowledge in evolutionary biology is akin to comparing your high-school math teacher to someone like Terence Tao - and trust me, Terence Tao had mastered more math by the age of 10 than your average math teacher will in an entire life-time.
But putting that aside, I have some very bad news for you creationists - creationism will very soon (within the next 15 years at maximum is my guess) be less tenable than the flat-earth conspiracy. Let me show you why:
Edit: See end of post
I don't know in what year that interview happened in but if you take a look at that graph, what it shows you is that the cost to sequence the entire genome of an individual human being went from around 100 million dollars in 2001 to less than 1000 dollars today. Sequencing other animals has also dropped unimaginably in price.
Not only that but CRISPR-Cas9 -for all you people who keep up with science news, you should recognize this as the new genetic engineering technology that has, for example, made conducting genetic engineering projects that used to take years now possible within a couple of days. CRISPR was invented in 2012: in the year your video was posted, in 2011, the average genetic engineering project that took around 2 years to complete can now be done in about 4 days thanks to CRISPR.
These two factors together have already within the past 3 years caused the field of genetics to literally explode.
Contrary to what you creationists might have thought, we actually knew very little about functional genomics (the field that studies these questions: what genes encodes for this or that trait?) - unfortunately for you guys, those two factors are going to change that fact very, very soon. In fact, it already has.
We have probably discovered more about functional human genetics in the past few years than we did in the 100 years from the year 1900-2000. Sadly for you though, not only is it the case that everything we have discovered about genetics, including human genetics, supports evolution but strong creationism - God created Adam and Eve with magic who then magically went on to produce the various human populations - has already been falsified.
Let me now show you why it has been falsified. Consider the native people of Tibet - for those of you who don't know, these are the native peoples of the Chinese province of Tibet. Tibetans are a very interesting group of human beings because for thousands of years they have lived in an environment quite different from that of most other human beings: you see, Tibetans live very high up in the mountains - at very high altitudes, where there is significantly less oxygen in the air than down on earth where most other human beings live.
It turns out that their very unique environment caused probably the fastest rate of human evolution that we know of so far for modern humans because already, they have evolved significant biological adaptations to their environment (in about 3000 years it seems).
Now let me finally give you some genes: Tibetans have a mutated allele for the so called EPAS-1 gene which encodes for HIF-2α - this a special protein that is involved in how your body cells respond to decreases in oxygen availability (hypoxia). So what does this gene do? Well I don't want to fry your brain with too much biology so Ill try to make it entertaining:
You see there are other people who have lived and live in high-altitudes - a few such South American peoples (e.g. Aymara and Quechua people) have also been studied - and what we find with all those other groups is that their bodies, on average, tends to produce much more red-blood cells than is found in say people like you or me - they need those extra red-blood cells to essentially make the most of the little oxygen they can get from the air at that altitude.
The problem is that if your body produces too much red-blood cells, it makes your blood viscous - which will certainly predispose you to all sorts of circulatory system problems and diseases. But note that no "new information" was added to these peoples DNA - they simply make a lot more red blood cells. The Tibetan mutant gene, it appears, has made it possible to more efficiently absorb and transport oxygen in your body at high-altitudes without the need for all those extra red blood cells that tend to give you heart problems.
Now this is a very common pattern in evolution: in the short-run, evolution - being a blind process - will equip organisms with a double-edged sword trait, usually via selection alone, i.e. there will be some benefits to help you deal with your environment but also some costs. Another example of this is the well known sick-cell trait peculiar to Africans - I won't go in to detail on this because any high-school biology textbook will talk about this.
But in the long-run, evolution will tend to give organisms trait (new traits!) that confer smaller and smaller costs for the benefit they give. These new traits, are of course, mutations - which is why they take a while to show up. And yes, these new traits do add "information" to the genome.
So here is our story: sub-groups of the human organism (specifically the Aymara, Quechua and the Tibetan people) have been adapting to low oxygen environments up in the mountains for some time now. In two of those sub-groups, the Aymara and Quechua people, new-comers in the high-altitude environment, evolution has only acted on through selection alone, i.e. made their blood more dense with red-blood cells. But in one special group - the Tibetan people - who have lived up in the mountains for far longer than the other groups, evolution has blessed them with something far more efficient: a mutation in EPAS-1 gene which encodes for proteins involved in oxygen diffusion at the cellular level.
Edit: I can't seem to be able to post links without the need for mod approval for some reason so you will have to find the links yourself if you are interested:
For the graph I would have linked: search "DNA Sequencing Costs" on google, its the genome gov site.
For the scientific article on the Tibetan gene I talked about search "Hypoxia: Adapting to High Altitude by Mutating EPAS-1, the Gene Encoding HIF-2α"
KingForever7
Member
I don't know what you're talking about.
....but I know I'm responding to when you said that "Proof is not the same as Evidence"....lol.
ComplexCity
Banned
Go into the search box and type faith and you will see Hawkers thread. There you will find your answer
ComplexCity
Banned
If you as an individual never had a problem with them, you have my respects as a neutral individual.
As for the Qu'ran, I couldn't give two sh1ts what it says, I look at the actions of the people that identify themselves with the ancient script. Not the script itself. I have nothing against the Qu'ran, it's just a book. Religious scripts are crypted with deep knowledge and it's self-proclaimed followers are too stupid to even grasp it's underlying implications.
And together with puking the words out of their mouths when talking about their dissent towards having a female partner that is not a virgin, muslims and christians around me also puked out the words when talking about homosexuals. All preach love but only a very smart percentage seem to actually uphold acceptance and universal love for all life. They are the real lost souls, trapped between arrogance and ignorance.
As for guiding them, religious people are in no way qualified to guide anyone when it comes to these topics.
I'm glad you brought that up. Faith and religion has been the cause in 1/3 of the conflicts in the world in the near past (survey from 2012).
You must be registered for see links
Yes, it is clear to me which stands in the way of progress.
KingForever7
Member
Lol, I don't need to go into a thread to know what the definitions of "Proof" and "Evidence" are.
Come on now.
ComplexCity
Banned
Apparently you dont because you asked me the same question Hawker asked and he was proven wrong. I'm not parroting myself go read the thread
Ansatsuken
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DominiqueX
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Progress in the meaning of having a peaceful world, where everyone can live how he/she wants, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. Teaching people acceptance, truly acceptance. Not your pathetic wannabe-acceptance that stops as soon as someone doesn't want to live after your "rules" and ideals.
Progress in order to have a world where innocent people don't have to live in fear for what they are, regardless of the place or culture they were born. Progress in order to have equal rights for men and women. Progress in order that everyone can enter the bond of love and marriage, regardless of gender, race, belief and everything else. How often do I have to say it, before your mind can catch it up? Let people live how they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. Is that so difficult?
People would stopp looking down on Islam, Christianity and other stunted religions, if they didn't refuse to evolve. To be honest, Christianity did evolve over the years and is not as big of a problem as Islam is. It's still not perfect, but it evolved. And it will still evolve because western people become more intelligent and more tolerant towards people who deserve it. But we won't tolerate intolerance.
Do you see people complaining about buddhism for example? No, because this religion doesn't give a **** about personal stuff like that. To each their own, simple as that.
The problem is your mindset, Arai.
You pretend acceptance and peace, but all of that is a lie. Heck, you want to "guide" people to "the right way" what has nothing to do with acceptance or peace, but oppression. This is a crime to non-barbaric, developed people.
Progress in order to have a world where innocent people don't have to live in fear for what they are, regardless of the place or culture they were born. Progress in order to have equal rights for men and women. Progress in order that everyone can enter the bond of love and marriage, regardless of gender, race, belief and everything else. How often do I have to say it, before your mind can catch it up? Let people live how they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone else. Is that so difficult?
People would stopp looking down on Islam, Christianity and other stunted religions, if they didn't refuse to evolve. To be honest, Christianity did evolve over the years and is not as big of a problem as Islam is. It's still not perfect, but it evolved. And it will still evolve because western people become more intelligent and more tolerant towards people who deserve it. But we won't tolerate intolerance.
Do you see people complaining about buddhism for example? No, because this religion doesn't give a **** about personal stuff like that. To each their own, simple as that.
The problem is your mindset, Arai.
You pretend acceptance and peace, but all of that is a lie. Heck, you want to "guide" people to "the right way" what has nothing to do with acceptance or peace, but oppression. This is a crime to non-barbaric, developed people.
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ComplexCity
Banned
lmao..."there were links given" ...yet no one gave even one logical explanation as to why would Earth be a Creation. If it's not a Creation then a Creator doesn't exist either.
Also if universe has a beginning and you think it's god then based on that logic that everything has a beginning god should have a beginning also and there we have the infite regression come in. Fail again.
Also I showed based on quantum physics why we can disprove omnipresent God with a plan hypothesis.
So no one gave any good reason as to why to believe in god. As a matter of fact everything can be explained without god. So you should really stop having a boner for your idols Kobak and TranzziXt or whatever. They have a sky daddy syndrome which they try to explain by making up a god aka flying spaghetti monster. They wrote walls of text which already tells me how desperate they are. It's because deep inside they know they are wrong, but cognitive dissonance strikes again, so here we have these stupid debates about simple matters.
DominiqueX
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YowYan was so kind to do it for me. Do I have to quote him or are you able to look it up yourself?
Ansatsuken
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How do you know about my mindset/thinking in just about numbers of posts here, Lmao and absurd.
Did I force you here? Never right? But I dont like people like you act like you know everything about true Islamic teaching without being one or study it deeply and just relied on Media propaganda or websites. The best way to study it. But dont lie by saying you are rise as a Muslim or already study about it.
And you can categorize the religion into two side:-
Non-muslim and Muslim.
Many non-Muslim like Christian believer or Buddhist having not many restrictions for their believers. They can eat pork, drink bear, Cohabitation etc wheres Islam prohibited it.
Thats mean Buddhist attacking Muslim like Rohingya not a problem for other Non-Muslim believers. It just one of Non-Muslim religion attacking Muslim religion to Christian people.
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Konan just recognizes a rational mind and so do I in her.
Morality is universal. All based on universal love for all life as you yourself are all life in one vessel. Anything immoral is conspiring to take away freedom of another in any way possible. I hope you can grasp that.
When religious simpletons on the base try to counter homosexuality they use incest and pedophilia as an argument as if it's actually a good point. All in all motivated by their religion or environment, regardless of what they think of homo's themselves, deep down.
As for neanderthals; I don't belief anything mainstream scientists tell us when it comes to the history of our species. The Smithsonian Institute and shadow governments have quickly covered up, locked away and negated any hintings towards the findings they made over the past 200 years that would utterly shatter the way we perceive our past. We know maybe 5% of what actually walked the earth back then. And mainstream scientists are often limited with their studies due to the agenda of the ones that fund them. Free unlimited energy could have created global abundance if Nikola Tesla's inventions did not fall into the hands of the shadow government. We are being conditioned to live the way we do. As chattle.
At bold: Pedophilia is deemed natural and common in certain middle-eastern cultures and western rulers' secret societies. Honestly, I think not only the human race is subject to the cancerous hive mind, also the animal kingdom is poisoned with this cancerous collective hive mind. Hamsters eating their offspring, lions killing other lions just for the sake of showing who's boss, dogs trying to **** both animate and inanimate objects. (I'm ranting, not even addressing your post at this point)
ComplexCity
Banned
Ok so can you prove through Quantum Physics how the earth came to beand how it disproves God doesn't exist because you did a stealler job before
KingForever7
Member
I went on to the thread....It changed nothing.
All I see are people trying to twist the definitions of "proof" and "evidence".
To have full proof of something, you must have evidence for it. It's as simple as that lmao.
Wow, I can't believe people would go to that extent to try and twist the very simple and clear definitions of proof/evidence.
DominiqueX
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@Arai
I based my post on what you said earlier. Do you really want me to quote everything?
Or do you want to say that what you wrote is not coherent with your mindset?
You showed me enough of your "true islamic teaching". As soon as you agree on punishing and maltreating innocent people, your entire belief turns into rubbish.
Oh and of course, all of our western media and all sources that say anything against your religion are worthless and propaganda. Only your sources are reliable, right?
I based my post on what you said earlier. Do you really want me to quote everything?
Or do you want to say that what you wrote is not coherent with your mindset?
You showed me enough of your "true islamic teaching". As soon as you agree on punishing and maltreating innocent people, your entire belief turns into rubbish.
Oh and of course, all of our western media and all sources that say anything against your religion are worthless and propaganda. Only your sources are reliable, right?
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