[Question] What if Kishi didn't suck and wrote Hyugas alongside the other clans?

wanderingcactus

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The Hyuga are likely a god ethereal race or species that obtained thier magical capabilities by the spiritual realm. It's a fact that spirit entities that exists in the spirit worlds exudes a spiritual physique that does not allow them to interact physically, and likely ghost phases each other due to that fact hence they implicitly require a physical earthly manifestation to substantially interact hence it's likely an ethereal manifestation of sorts has been physically manifested by them to acclimate such interactions. This is likely why the biblical character, Nimrod, and certain spiritual cults manifested earthly pyramid like and conical gargantuan exorbitantly towering over the skies structures to physically interact with them, hence it's likely that when spirits and ghosts broach the physical plane they absorb the natural energy around them and transfigure solidity to thier spirit ghost like physique, and interact subsequently and conccurently in accordance with thier pertinent power capabilities they manifest as gargantuan demonic entities like goliath or mini spirits like dwarfs, pixies, fairies etc cera.
I wouldn't consider the Hyugas as that since we know that they come from the Otsutsuki bloodline. They are also part human to boot.

So maybe the Otsutsuki as they are Sages but then again they could just be living beings that transcended in some way.

Chakra is comprised of spiritual and physical energies
Disagree there. At least in terms of Narutoverse. The concept of Yin and Yang was established plainly by saying that Yin is spiritual energy that can be given form and Yang is to breathe life into those form.

Ergo, Yin to Yang and Yang to Yin. Mind to create something from nothing. Body is to make something exist. Much like imagining a flame and conjuring a flame are 2 different things. 1st is imagining a concept and the 2nd one brings it into reality. Meaning Yin to Yang.

implying that it possesses the spiritual power of the spirit ghost plane but it tangentially requires physical energy to substantiate in the material realm
Basically what you said here but chakra is the spiritual energy that you speak of rather than being both.

, however it's a fact that energy is elementally physical and possesses little to no technical attributes to broach the spirit ghost plane implying that it requires certain third party scientific applications like frequencies, resonance and the likes to interact implying that substantiating the spirit existence requires the tapping into specific mathematical equations that like a technology computer program programs the spiritual power to interact with that physical energy, and the associated physical power that it's intrinsically linked to ie., the spiritual power manifesting a way to interact with the physical energy, and the associated physical power of that physical energy
I was discussing this with someone previously about the powers of Hamura. How Hagoromo is the eyes that shows the way in the "dimensional hallway" and Hamura is the vessel that allows movement to traverse that hallway and into different rooms.
I also stated that perhaps that it is a concept that the Yin or imaginary is merely something that already exists in another room of this hallway but does not in the next. Therefore, to bring forth an imaginary to reality, one must traverse the hallway, go into one room and move or copy whatever exists in that room and bring it to the adjacent or simply to the other rooms.
Kind of like how the Rinnegan allows Sasuke to move in between dimensions.

I do believe that you were approaching that conclusion as well albeit in a very constructive perspective whereas mine has a tad bit more of a simple yet abstract approach.

The Hyūga Clan likely exemplified this fact in a way that the Otsūtsūki's spirit manifested on earth and broached it's stratosphere and tangentially it's atmosphere and implicitly absorbed it's natural energy to manifest individually to gift thier god powers magically or likely possessed the clan entities that contains extremely talented genes, and assimilated with thier deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) to progressively amplify the Hyūga as they develop and exude thier genetic potentiality.
Are you talking about possession here? How the Hyuga Clan were already existing entities but were possessed by the Otsutsuki?

We know for certain that it is not true as they are direct descendants of the Otsutsuki. The Moon and Earth is linked by a portal that was safe guarded by a crustacean if I remember correctly.

So if there is some Otstusuki link, it would not go on the round about ways of trying to penetrate Earth from the outside but rather simply use the readily available path from the Moon.

Unless you are speaking of Otsutsuki as in the alien specie instead of Hamura's clans, then that is possible although I do not see it happening as the other Otsutsukis are not even aware of Earth as it was Isshiki's and Kaguya's farm to harvest.

Key evidence of this lies in Otsūtsūki Momoshiki acclimating the ghost enchanting of Uzumaki Bolt to potentially gift him god like powers progressively
Yes, but what does having Momoshiki using Karma on Boruto have to do with the Hyuga? Are you implying that the Hyuga were a clan that had the same thing as transmigrant?
I would agree with you on that. But not necessarily the Hyuga Clan but rather their counterpart Otsutsuki clan on the Moon.

Basing things off of parallels, we know what happened to the Asura transmigrant when the original clan was wiped off. It switched to the nearest and most compatible affinity and that is to say Naruto Uzumaki, not a Senju.

Perhaps the same can be said with Hinata. With their counterpart clan wiped off, only the Hyugas remained to inherit this "spirit" to which Hinata was the designated vessel.

I would say that there are different levels of reincarnation. From the transcendent beings' Karma to spiritual presence of the Rikudou Sennins' Hamura and Hagoromo to the transmigrant/spiritual successors of the RS' children.

Each degree of power will lose some sort of self. People who awakened the 3rd eye or have the Juubi can apply Karma to come back to life. People who have the Rinnegan/Tenseigan/RSSM/RSCM can exist as ghost and have someone trade their life to bring them back to life. People who have lesser doujutsus/bodymode will transfer their will and so on and so forth.

Otsūtsūki Momoshiki is likely an example of a mild comparatively meek god spirit as signified by his sleek physicality, contrasted with Otsūtsūki Kinshiki who possessed gargantuan levels of physical power ie., a goliath like entity instance
Yes because they exhibit characteristics of their affinities. Yin being the mind = eyes. Which means they are feminine, probably dark, imaginative, deals with intangibility and Yang is the body, the vice versa. Light, masculine, tangible, realistic, etc.

I think that, to surmise, the Hyuga clan would acclaim plot relevance via the Otsūtsūki that significantly reflects thier and appearance attributes as they keep subconsciously tapping the sensory and spiritual information of the spirit realms by the extrapolated tower prototype that exudes frequency signals that mathematically match and facilitate the subsequent interaction.
yeah you lost me there.
Regardless of your overly complex explanation, I do understand the gist of what you are saying. I disagree that Hyuga has no plot relevance outside of the Otsutsuki as they were already a relevant clan way before the establishment of the Otsutsuki plotline.

But to bring them up to par with the rest of the Otsutsukis, then I agree. They are in desperate need to be caught up or at the very least be showcased more of their known power being much more than what they are.

Yes, the Hyuga powers need to be more focused on the spiritual aspect of things as they are the Yin in the Hamura's line(Yang), much like how Indra is the Yin in Hagoromo's line(Yin).
I would also like to have the Hamura line be expanded. We know several things of them and we can gap the holes with the parallels of Hagoromo and his family.

Hagoromo holds the power to bring forth something from nothing and since Hamura is an antithesis of Hagoromo, the opposite is true for him: he brings something to nothing. We also know this to be true as the Hyugas are known for their dangerous use of their Byakugan and blocking all the chakra channels and have the ability to nullify chakra attacks to defend themselves.

This also further backs the idea of the Uzumaki being in his lineage as not only Toneri's feat is a copy of Naruto's but also the Uzumaki Clan's known powers of fuinjutsu. Their use of seals to take away something that exist is in line with Hamura's traits. There is also a noteable hint about his design that he is all about sealing due to his staff as well as the ropes on rocks and trees.

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Uverdore9

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I wouldn't consider the Hyugas as that since we know that they come from the Otsutsuki bloodline. They are also part human to boot.
So maybe the Otsutsuki as they are Sages but then again they could just
I'd agree on this, however I feel like it's not explicitly apparent on what the author personally believes regarding the whole genetic evolvement pertaining Hyūga and the Otsūtsūki hence I believe that creates significant exposition to logical theories as such since the probability of either being true is extremely likely.

To add on what I've extrapolated prior, I think the bloodline supposition that's asserted has significant supplementation as it pertains to my original theory due to explicit fact that the soul perpetually reclines in the physique in the blood, as when gargantuan quantities of blood seeps out the physique the probability of a human being or any complex blood acquired living organism approaching it's death is rather likely, hence I'd like to assert that the Otsūtsūki's blood seeping and filling the Hyuga's blood vessels spiritually or an additional supplement to this theory is that they broach spiritually the Hyuga's physique and use thier blood or it's deoxyribonucleic acid to traverse through the gargantuan expanse engulfing each blood cell individually filling the Hyuga's physique subsequently.

An interesting aspect of this theoretical approach is that no matter how one decides to approach the issue at hand, the surmise of either is near identical IMO.

Human beings scientifically possessed magical capabilities like sorcery, artifact enchantment, magicality, soothsayer-like traits, flying, ethereal beings associated interaction, superhuman physical power features, excellent intelligence that extrapolates difficult riddles with ease, in the ancient times, hence I wouldn't put past them the fact that they acquired such traits by spirit telecommunication, as I find it hard to believe that that they acquired such traits physically by extremely strenuous exercise of thier naturally limited talents and abilities.

The Hyuga likely operates the exact same as far as technicality goes.

The Otsutsuki exhibits genetic affinities to natural energy as displayed by Mitsuki who possessed Otsutsuki Toneri reminiscent Sage Mode, and Otsutsuki Toneri possessed Truth Seekers & 6PSM Senjutsu Mode that grants virtually limitless access to Six Paths Senjutsu Chakras that's required to physically fight of and explicitly interact with the Truth Seekers, so I kind of agree with you on there pertaining the fact that they possess genetic attributes that likely facilitates the manifestation of Sage Mode later on in their life.
Disagree there. At least in terms of Narutoverse. The concept of Yin and Yang was established plainly by saying that Yin is spiritual energy that can be given form and Yang is to breathe life into those form.

Ergo, Yin to Yang and Yang to Yin. Mind to create something from nothing. Body is to make something exist. Much like imagining a flame and conjuring a flame are 2 different things. 1st is imagining a concept and the 2nd one brings it into reality. Meaning Yin to Yang.
Alright.
Basically what you said here but chakra is the spiritual energy that you speak of rather than being both.
To clarify, chakra is elementally contained of spiritual and physical energy. I was basing my theory of that, and how the Otsūtsūki spiritually possess and manifest themselves in Hyuga associated genes and entities.
I was discussing this with someone previously about the powers of Hamura. How Hagoromo is the eyes that shows the way in the "dimensional hallway" and Hamura is the vessel that allows movement to traverse that hallway and into different rooms.

I also stated that perhaps that it is a concept that the Yin or imaginary is merely something that already exists in another room of this hallway but does not in the next. Therefore, to bring forth an imaginary to reality, one must traverse the hallway, go into one room and move or copy whatever exists in that room and bring it to the adjacent or simply to the other rooms.

Kind of like how the Rinnegan allows Sasuke to move in between dimensions.

I do believe that you were approaching that conclusion as well albeit in a very constructive perspective whereas mine has a tad bit more of a simple yet abstract approach.
Alright but I think that logicality can be instilled in areas where the manga hasn't explicitly illustrated it's highly symbolic narrative. For instance spiritual energy doesn't really exist on it's own. It's literally energy + spiritual power mixed into the equation. The implication that exists here is that the only way these two things can apparently interact is when a specific catalyst of sorts exists to meadiate and the supposition that I've applied is that certain frequencies exist and they apparently tap into these and said frequencies are intrinsically linked to mathematical complex fractals that like a technology prototype re-program the issue and subsequently link the two together like a needle weaves a cloth to a silk thin thread. To clarify, I was actually extrapolating on the element spiritual and physical energy, not Yin or Yang Release that Hagoromo applied to produce bijū magically. I agree on the latter being the case.
Alright. I think I agree with you on here. My premise is basically this except I'm extrapolating more on the lines of logicality broaching in-verse implications as Kishimoto didn't really do a great job extrapolating on these in complexity.
Yes, but what does having Momoshiki using Karma on Boruto have to do with the Hyuga? Are you implying that the Hyuga were a clan that had the same thing as transmigrant?


I would agree with you on that. But not necessarily the Hyuga Clan but rather their counterpart Otsutsuki clan on the Moon.
Well I was thinking more on the lines of gene association. I mean, the Hyuga are spiritually and genetically linked to the Otsūtsūki by the fact that they displayed appearance and battle capacity similarities in magnificent proportions, and the fact that a Byakugan filled with genetic purity is a necessity to manufacture the Tenseigan. I think that they possessed ancestral connections to Otsūtsūki, and a fragment of thier biologically programmed genes + spirit mixed and sporadically disseminated in thier clan like a parasite organism during the numerical progression of it, as more and more offspring were being birthed.
Basing things off of parallels, we know what happened to the Asura transmigrant when the original clan was wiped off. It switched to the nearest and most compatible affinity and that is to say Naruto Uzumaki, not a Senju.
Alright but I'm not really convinced on Naruto not being a Senju fragmentally. I mean, Minato possessed a magnificent physique filled with gargantuan chakras and stamina that manifested the acquisition of Sage Mode that's implicitly alluded to be a Yang based ability and we know that the Senju inherited Hagoromo's gene key in terms of physical stamina, gargantuan chakras and life energy.
Minato fragmentally could likely be a Senju descendant.
Perhaps the same can be said with Hinata. With their counterpart clan wiped off, only the Hyugas remained to inherit this "spirit" to which Hinata was the designated vessel.
Yea I agree.
I would say that there are different levels of reincarnation. From the transcendent beings' Karma to spiritual presence of the Rikudou Sennins' Hamura and Hagoromo to the transmigrant
Hagoromo possessed the capacity to produce 9 bijū filled with life energies and unique personalities, each contained with a soul. I wouldn't put past him the capacity to reincarnate himself over and over again, in the transmigrants pertinent in this issue IMO hence I kind of agree with you on there. However I doubt Hamura possessed such magnificent god abilities as it's never displayed that he explicitly possessed such magnificent god abilities in canon, and even hypothetically it's implied that he was a significantly weaker variant of Hagoromo.

Each degree of power will lose some sort of self. People who awakened the 3rd eye or have the Juubi can apply Karma to come back to life. People who have the Rinnegan/Tenseigan/RSSM/RSCM can exist as ghost and have someone trade their life to bring them back to life. People who have lesser doujutsus/bodymode will transfer their will and so on and so forth.
You're implying that there are levels of power to this? I can see that being applicable in this case. Agreed on all fronts on the rest.
Yes because they exhibit characteristics of their affinities. Yin being the mind = eyes. Which means they are feminine, probably dark, imaginative, deals with intangibility and Yang is the body, the vice versa. Light, masculine, tangible, realistic, etc.
I see.
I disagree that Hyuga has no plot relevance outside of the Otsutsuki as they were already a relevant clan way before the establishment of the Otsutsuki
I mean they were defiantly sidelined for apparently superior race entities like the Uchiha, Senju, and the Uzumaki IMO. The Otsutsuki broached the serialization in Bolt, and thier stock price skyrocketed significantly as far as relevancy goes. In the WA, they had the perfect opportunity to bypass their prior established power level but thier best feature was initiating a Kyūbi Chakra Mode charge on the Jūbi, and even Byakugo sans Sakura who possessed little to no relevance in the series prior displayed the physical power to reflect a Jūbi children brigade without visible duress. She additionally garnered extended screentime comparatively, and the author has yet to display a Hyuga who possesses as much limelight as the other premier characters in the series.

Naruto the Last explicitly disseminated thier newly budding manifested plot relevance into the sequel series where a fragment hyuga attained center stage ie., Bolt. Himawari bypassed Naruto's power level in a single move additionally.
But to bring them up to par with the rest of the Otsutsukis, then I agree. They are in desperate need to be caught up or at the very least be showcased more of their known power being much more than what they are.
Agreed.
Yes, the Hyuga powers need to be more focused on the spiritual aspect of things as they are the Yin in the Hamura's line(Yang), much like how Indra is the Yin in Hagoromo's line(Yin).
I see.
I would also like to have the Hamura line be expanded. We know several things of them and we can gap the holes with the parallels of Hagoromo and his family.
Yea they seem a bit too out in the dark rn. Key revelations pertaining them might explain some of thier relative clan based intricacies.
Hagoromo holds the power to bring forth something from nothing and since Hamura is an antithesis of Hagoromo, the opposite is true for him: he brings something to nothing. We also know this to be true as the Hyugas are known for their dangerous use of their Byakugan and blocking all the chakra channels and have the ability to nullify chakra attacks to defend themselves.
Agreed, although to clarify the extrapolation proposed prior was intended to produce a logical explanation on how they would likely interact with the Otsutsuki gods to tap on thier prototype power gene information that resonates with thier physicality deoxyribonucleic acid information that manifests magical powers that they employ in combat as a result. I mean, otherwise it's tantamount to arguing that something can manifest out of nothing which seems highly improbable.
This also further backs the idea of the Uzumaki being in his lineage as not only Toneri's feat is a copy of Naruto's but also the Uzumaki Clan's known powers of fuinjutsu. Their use of seals to take away something that exist is in line with Hamura's traits. There is also a noteable hint about his design that he is all about sealing due to his staff as well as the ropes on rocks and trees.
I see. Do you believe that the Otsutsuki apparently birthed the Uzumaki or do they approach from Hagoromo's bloodline?
 

wanderingcactus

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To add on what I've extrapolated prior, I think the bloodline supposition that's asserted has significant supplementation as it pertains to my original theory due to explicit fact that the soul perpetually reclines in the physique in the blood, as when gargantuan quantities of blood seeps out the physique the probability of a human being or any complex blood acquired living organism approaching it's death is rather likely, hence I'd like to assert that the Otsūtsūki's blood seeping and filling the Hyuga's blood vessels spiritually or an additional supplement to this theory is that they broach spiritually the Hyuga's physique and use thier blood or it's deoxyribonucleic acid to traverse through the gargantuan expanse engulfing each blood cell individually filling the Hyuga's physique subsequently.
I'm not sure whether or not I misinterpret but isn't it that the whole premise of the duality theme? We are shown that there exist a balance between Yin and Yang and why the Otsutsuki were always paired up with their antithesis. This is also why we can extrapolate a lot by using these 2 themes to fill in the gaps of Hamura's side. We know that they are a copy of Hagoromo's side but there is some that are different and those differences are the exact opposite of what Hagoromo's side have.

Meaning that since Hagoromo is Yin (feminine, dark, imaginitive, intangible, mind, etc.) then Hamura is its counterpart being Yang (masculine, light, realism, tangible, body, etc.). As you said, they are the gargantuan part attributes of their bloodline, ei: Yang. The opposite of Hagoromo's Yin. As their bloodline focuses more on Yin and even the plot follows this duality.

Hagoromo's Yin (Uchiha) obtaining the body and becoming the RS while the opposite is true for Hamura's Yang (Toneri's, which I will based on theory dub "Uzumaki" for simplicity's sake). The body acquiring the eye (Hyuga in this case) and unlocking the RS. This story being tied to the Hyuga also signifies that they are the elder branch of the family based on the evidence provided on the Uchiha, their parallel.

I surmise that they, too, dilute as their bloodline becomes more varied due to breeding with humans. Yet, it is still possible to attain strong Otsutsuki ties as long as certain conditions were met as proven by Madara and Toneri in their respective affinities.

Thus, the theory of transmigrating is also true as both circumstances were similar. Hagoromo's side went to war in the difference of idealisms. This in turn raged wars that extended throughout time. The same case is true at the moon where the dispute derived on the interpretation of Hamura's decree. Similar to Hagoromo lineage conundrum. To further back this claim of Otstusuki transmigration, we can see antithesis parallels:

Madara and Toneri. Both came from a clan that only had 1 member left: Sasuke and Toneri respectively. The Senjus were wiped out on Earth and the main family were wiped out too on the Moon. Both achieved RS by gaining the power of the other side. Both counterpart had to seek out a suitable vessel outside of their clan: one being Naruto of the Uzumaki of Earth and the other being Hinata of the Hyuga of Earth.

Therefore, this is in line with your theory that the Otsutsuki "spirit" lives on but it does not mean that it gets diluted over time as we saw that the link can be strengthened and even surpassing the 2nd generation and in the case of Madara, on par with the 0th gen (0th gen being Kaguya and Isshiki and 1st gen being Hagoromo and Hamura and 2nd gen being Indra and Asura and their cousins).

The only difference is that the strong attributes is derived from the Yang which you mentioned to be the "gargantuan" while the other side is Yin which you dubbed as the "meek"

Human beings scientifically possessed magical capabilities like sorcery, artifact enchantment, magicality, soothsayer-like traits, flying, ethereal beings associated interaction, superhuman physical power features, excellent intelligence that extrapolates difficult riddles with ease, in the ancient times, hence I wouldn't put past them the fact that they acquired such traits by spirit telecommunication, as I find it hard to believe that that they acquired such traits physically by extremely strenuous exercise of thier naturally limited talents and abilities.
Humans in Narutoverse, at least pre-Boruto, work differently with the humans of our reality. While in the previous eras, anything unknown to us is considered magic or supernatural: an obscurity. Without enough knowledge about the subject, we tended to use imagination to bridge the gap of knowledge and justify its existence to the best of our ability. Therefore, the spiritual and physical worlds are one and the same for us.

However, in Narutoverse, these supernatural occurrences are normal as they have the understanding of them. As time goes on, more modern application became viable. This was the root conundrum in Boruto where technology is substituting the traditional "magic"

For the people of the Otsutsuki bloodline, their inherited power is far more superior than the modern technology and more reliable on top of it. Which means that they have a stronger connection to as you say "spirit" side or as I would call Yin and therefore they focus more on it than investing in the physical, or Yang.

The Hyuga likely operates the exact same as far as technicality goes.

The Otsutsuki exhibits genetic affinities to natural energy as displayed by Mitsuki who possessed Otsutsuki Toneri reminiscent Sage Mode, and Otsutsuki Toneri possessed Truth Seekers & 6PSM Senjutsu Mode that grants virtually limitless access to Six Paths Senjutsu Chakras that's required to physically fight of and explicitly interact with the Truth Seekers, so I kind of agree with you on there pertaining the fact that they possess genetic attributes that likely facilitates the manifestation of Sage Mode later on in their life.
In my theory, I suggested that both Hyuga and Uzumaki were originally came from families in the Moon. Hyuga Clan coming from the Elder and the Uzumaki from the Younger branch. Applying the theory of Yin and Yang duality theme, I hypothesized that these 2 families are more Yang or physical oriented.

As for Mitsuki, I believe his is the product of 2 Yangs put together like Naruto. SM coming from Hagoromo's Senju side and CM coming from Hamura's "Uzumaki" side. (again, this is only to not confuse Toneri's Otsutsuki with the alien Otsutsuki and the main branch Otsutsuki). Naruto is similar as he possesses the transmigrant spirit of the Senju and therefore he had SM. Although I would say that it is just a regular SM rather than an Otsutsuki SM compared to Hashirama's and Isshiki's and Momoshiki's

I also stated that there were 2 RSs that existed and the Earth only knew of Hagoromo and Hamura became lost to history thereby both of their feats become consolidated into Hagoromo alone over time as both of them are known as RS.

RSM is a Yang attribute while the doujutsu is a Yin attribute. Both of them share these but one is stronger than the other based on their aligned traits.

My theory included that Hagoromo's Yin side had Rinnegan (Yin) and Sage Mode (Yang) while Hamura's Yang side had Tenseigan (Yin) and Chakra Mode (Yang). I do believe that Toneri did not complete his evolution and was similar to Obito as his Tenseigan was not completely set. It was still not matured which is why it was swirling and blue compared to Hamura's Tenseigan which was gold with a static solid white floral/star pattern. This is why his CM also differed to Naruto's RSM and looked closer to Naruto's KCM as he was still using his regular CM than the RSM.

To clarify, chakra is elementally contained of spiritual and physical energy. I was basing my theory of that, and how the Otsūtsūki spiritually possess and manifest themselves in Hyuga associated genes and entities.
I see. Although these are established rules stemming from Part 1 Naruto. Then again, it can be retconned by the new information. I am not aware that this rule has been retconned however. However, I do see what you mean by it, I would just to clarify my standpoint.

If your basis is to tie in the Otsutsuki with their attributes then the mechanics are different matters altogether, I believe. One, chakra is energy, therefore in the realms of spiritual than physical. For the Otsutsuki, they do control spirit and physical energies as they are the Yin and Yang. Note: I said, control. I do not mean that they are entities solely comprised of one or the other as we know that the Yin, which is Isshiki and Momoshiki, have physical forms rather than being spiritual like Shukaku, Gyuki, and Kurama (chakra).

Alright but I think that logicality can be instilled in areas where the manga hasn't explicitly illustrated it's highly symbolic narrative. For instance spiritual energy doesn't really exist on it's own. It's literally energy + spiritual power mixed into the equation. The implication that exists here is that the only way these two things can apparently interact is when a specific catalyst of sorts exists to meadiate and the supposition that I've applied is that certain frequencies exist and they apparently tap into these and said frequencies are intrinsically linked to mathematical complex fractals that like a technology prototype re-program the issue and subsequently link the two together like a needle weaves a cloth to a silk thin thread. To clarify, I was actually extrapolating on the element spiritual and physical energy, not Yin or Yang Release that Hagoromo applied to produce bijū magically. I agree on the latter being the case.
Alright. I think I agree with you on here. My premise is basically this except I'm extrapolating more on the lines of logicality broaching in-verse implications as Kishimoto didn't really do a great job extrapolating on these in complexity.
I understand now. Yes, it is also true that many of these can be retconned in the future when presented with new information. Majority of my conjectures are really based on the overall themes. The foundations that Kishi used to fill in the blanks, which is also what Ikemoto and Kodachi are using to create new content. This being the duality, the antithesis and parallels. This becoming the basis of future theories were derived from that logic. It is also backed by the strong correlation given to us by the last 2 works of Kishi being The Last movie and Boruto: The Movie.

I agree with the application of science to bridge things even further as that was the intent of the new era: Boruto. We can see this even explored during The Last where they started harnessing chakra through advance weaponry. Something that rivals that of the Otsutsuki's way of doing things.

Well I was thinking more on the lines of gene association. I mean, the Hyuga are spiritually and genetically linked to the Otsūtsūki by the fact that they displayed appearance and battle capacity similarities in magnificent proportions, and the fact that a Byakugan filled with genetic purity is a necessity to manufacture the Tenseigan. I think that they possessed ancestral connections to Otsūtsūki, and a fragment of thier biologically programmed genes + spirit mixed and sporadically disseminated in thier clan like a parasite organism during the numerical progression of it, as more and more offspring were being birthed.
I agree on this. I believe I explained more in depth about this and my theory about Hamura's side previously, if not, I mentioned it above.

Alright but I'm not really convinced on Naruto not being a Senju fragmentally. I mean, Minato possessed a magnificent physique filled with gargantuan chakras and stamina that manifested the acquisition of Sage Mode that's implicitly alluded to be a Yang based ability and we know that the Senju inherited Hagoromo's gene key in terms of physical stamina, gargantuan chakras and life energy.
Minato fragmentally could likely be a Senju descendant
That too is an incredible hypothesis. Although I do believe that it was just plain retcon. I have mentioned this to @salamander uchiha before which sparked a great debate. The Uzumaki was meant to be Senju in the early stages of Shippuden but was retconned at the last peak of Part 2. Uzumaki became removed from Senju. Naruto became a special case instead.

This is why a lot of people consider Uzumaki as Senju being a fact, which was not explicit but rather implied, therefore not a fact but an educated hypothesis. However, that was retconned and was scrapped. Naruto was not RS's reincarnation but a transmigrant of Asura. Kaguya, Hagoromo and Hamura were introduced to replace the ultimate being that is known as Rikudou Sennin. Naruto had a different plot that he followed which is to be the transmigrant of Asura and Sasuke of Indra.

This is why Karin, Kushina and Mito had red hair. This is to tie in to the whole RS thing being Naruto (which RS is designed after Naruto than Naruto being design after the RS).

The only ties that I can see with Namikaze being Senju is Tsunade's blonde hair. But that is it. It is just that the Uzumaki really was supposed to be Senju originally but retconned when the whole duality theme came about.

This was also further backed by the fact that Toneri was a copy of Naruto in terms of feats.

Hagoromo possessed the capacity to produce 9 bijū filled with life energies and unique personalities, each contained with a soul. I wouldn't put past him the capacity to reincarnate himself over and over again, in the transmigrants pertinent in this issue IMO hence I kind of agree with you on there. However I doubt Hamura possessed such magnificent god abilities as it's never displayed that he explicitly possessed such magnificent god abilities in canon, and even hypothetically it's implied that he was a significantly weaker variant of Hagoromo.
I disagree with you there. Hagoromo and Hamura were both RS. As stated before, they continued the duality thing and they are equal to one another albeit being the opposite of each other. Another reason as to why I disagree with you is that there is proof that he is equal to Hagoromo in canon. In the The Last Movie (yes, this is canon as this is Kishi's offical work, just not in manga format. There is the databook as well but the info was scarce and I could not find any translation for this one.
However, Hamura also appeared as a spirit to Hinata and that was how he bestowed his power onto her and how she became Byakugan Princess officially. Furthermore, he created the Moon and made it habitable.

There was no mention or indication that Hamura was ever inferior to Hagoromo. Naruto and the group even stated about the powers of Hamura being great during their rescue mission in the moon. On top of that, Hagoromo having the Juubi and Hamura having the Gedo Mazou mean that they are equal as one possesses their mother's chakra while the other possesses her vessel. Gedo Mazou is just as powerful as the Juubi since we have seen it be utilized partially by Madara, Nagato and Obito. We also know that it can be absorbed as shown by Madara absorbing the God Tree to awaken the 3rd eye. This also healed him up.
Yin = chakra = Juubi
Yang = vessel = Gedo Mazou

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You're implying that there are levels of power to this? I can see that being applicable in this case. Agreed on all fronts on the rest.
Yes, it seems to be a concurrent trend. Each generation loses some kind of original self, may it be power or consciousness. I mean we also know about the Uchiha being able to awaken their special eyes by taking other Uchiha's. There is a seal on the branch's eyes for the Hyuga as to not threaten the main branch. The only ones we do not know were the Senju and Uzumaki. Only that they possess large amounts of life force. I believe the stronger the power, the stronger the consciousness.

Uchiha acquiring greater power, they adopt Indra's will of absolute power over everything. For Hashirama, being able to protect everyone. For the Hyuga, IDK, same goes for Uzumaki. They have been left out so it is hard to guess what their foreparents were up to.

I mean they were defiantly sidelined for apparently superior race entities like the Uchiha, Senju, and the Uzumaki IMO. The Otsutsuki broached the serialization in Bolt, and thier stock price skyrocketed significantly as far as relevancy goes. In the WA, they had the perfect opportunity to bypass their prior established power level but thier best feature was initiating a Kyūbi Chakra Mode charge on the Jūbi, and even Byakugo sans Sakura who possessed little to no relevance in the series prior displayed the physical power to reflect a Jūbi children brigade without visible duress. She additionally garnered extended screentime comparatively, and the author has yet to display a Hyuga who possesses as much limelight as the other premier characters in the series.
I agree and am happy for the expansion of Hyuga once more to bring them up to par with the other Otsutsuki. I was merely stating that they were sidelined and not so much as having no plot relevance. Although, I do understand what you may have bben implying that they lost their relevance due to being sidelined.


Naruto the Last explicitly disseminated thier newly budding manifested plot relevance into the sequel series where a fragment hyuga attained center stage ie., Bolt. Himawari bypassed Naruto's power level in a single move additionally.
I was still unsatisfied with The Last. As far as the feats were concerned, there were no Hyuga expansion outside of Tenseigan. The new information that we got were 2 things: Tenseigan is a RS level Byakugan. Also, purple chakra Hinata. There were no addition to the Hyuga in general. Just purple Twin Fist. Which really did not do anything differently.

Boruto manga however included Jougan, which I consider the counterpart of Mangekyu. I am still awaiting its special traits but I fear that the manga is taking the direction of Karma than the doujutsu.
As for Boruto and Himawari supremacy: it makes more sense if my previous theory being Uzumaki is branch Hamura Clan is correct. Boruto and Himawari would be the byproduct of 3 lineages. Hagoromo Yang and Hamura Yang from Naruto and Hamura Yin from Hinata. Therefore, they are at 3/4 already into being Kaguya level. (2/2) Yang (1/2) Yin.

It would not surprise me if they will naturally be RS level by maturity. Knowing that they are Hamura's lineage, they may mature later than being compared to their Yin counterpart like Sarada.

to clarify the extrapolation proposed prior was intended to produce a logical explanation on how they would likely interact with the Otsutsuki gods to tap on thier prototype power gene information that resonates with thier physicality deoxyribonucleic acid information that manifests magical powers that they employ in combat as a result.
Yes, that being Hamura's Yin. As established from before, I do believe that Yin deals in the spiritual/imaginative realm. Considering they are the doujutsu side of the family, they are more inclined to deal with chakra. However, Hamura is Yang dominant. This trait is translated to them, hence why they are more taijutsu focused, as you surmised.

otherwise it's tantamount to arguing that something can manifest out of nothing which seems highly improbable.
Improbable to the Hyuga since they are from Hamura's lineage, being Yang.
A certainty for the Uchiha, a Yin clan, since they are from Hagoromo's lineage, being Yin.

Uchihas can make something out from nothing. We know of the principles of ninjutsu. Taking spiritual energy and transforming it into something. As I said above, Yin is bringing something from nothing to something.
Their eye techniques revolve around creation. Susanoo, Izanami/Izanagi, Mangekyu abilities, etc.

Hamura being the antithesis will be the opposite. We know the Hyuga are capable of denying chakra pathways and since they are Yang, they are more focused on physical traits. We can surmise that they would deny spiritual energy being translated into physical, therefore my statement of Yang turning something into nothing.
This way, we can have more materials to use to hypothesize just the nature of the Jougan.

I see. Do you believe that the Otsutsuki apparently birthed the Uzumaki or do they approach from Hagoromo's bloodline?
As stated from above, the Uzumaki were supposedly be from the Senju clan, meaning Hagoromo's bloodline. However, with the plotline of RS reincarnation being scrapped and moved to the duality theme, the Uzumaki is most likely from Hamura's lineage.

Reason being the evidence presented in The Last movie. Not only do they not clash with the previous facts and feats previously established, they enforces the fact that they are from Hamura's Yang lineage.

Using the foundations of the latest plot, we can deduce that they are based on 2 things: duality and opposites (antithesis).

Alien Otstusuki travel in pairs: One Yin and One Yang.
Yin having Rinnegan, Yang having Chakra Mode
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Kaguya having twins: Hagoromo being elder (Yin due to Rinnegan, dark skinned, etc.) and Hamura being younger (Yang late Tenseigan, light skinned, etc)

Hagoromo Juubi = chakra (Yin)
Hamura Gedo Mazou = vessel (Yang)

Hagoromo = creation/splittin
Hamura = destruction/sealing

Both of them are capable of doing one or the other as seen with Chibaku Tensei and the building of Moon.
Reasoning: They have each other's seal.

Hagoromo carries the sun (Yang) seal and Hamura carries the moon (Yin).

Indra's Yin: Mangekyu and ninjutsu idealism, destruction
Asura's Yang: Sage Mode and ninshu idealism, peaceful

Elder branch Otsutsuki: Byakugan (Yin), peaceful decree
Younger branch Otsutsuki: Toneri's chakra mode (Yang), destruction decree

Toneri used similar abilities that Naruto has exhibited.
Uzumaki's Chakra Chains is similar to Yang Otsutsuki trait (see Kinshiki's Chakra Armaments)

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Reasons why Uzumaki is NOT Senju:
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Naruto and the Uzumaki Clan overall share more similarities with the Hamura side, meaning their abilities and affinities, than they do with the Hagoromo side.

Yin side seem to have a trend to release something, may it be a form of power or enhancement. While the Yang tend to block or seal things.

The Hyuga have been known to use their Byakugan to enhance their taijutsu capabilities and use them in conjunction to incapacitate their foes by blocking and overloading their chakra pathways.

The Uzumaki are feared due to their exalted fuinjutsu. This includes Minato's fuinjutsus: Dead Demon Seal and FTG.
Both Clans exhibit similarities and Toneri's abilities even further extends to the Uzumaki trait of sealing or removing chakra like the Hyuga Clan when he kidnapped Hinata and Hanabi from Earth and stopping Naruto by taking away his chakra.

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Isn't it fitting that Hagoromo is the God of Shinobi on Earth while his brother will be considered the counterpart: Demon?
 
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