[Question] What if Kishi didn't suck and wrote Hyugas alongside the other clans?

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
What if the Jougans existed but to only the elite branch clanspeople? Not even the main family were allowed but only the branch. This is due to being branded at birth with a seal that will crush their eyes so it prevents them for ever being used against the main family.

Also, what other skills do you think they would have along side the Jougan? I see the Byakugan as very lackluster when it comes to high tier combat. It feels very much like a reconnaissance tool than for combat. It is on par with sharingan and that is it.

We know that the Uchiha were feared due to the sharingan but they also had mangekyu users (even though they are rare, they existed). Perhaps the same could be said to the Hyugas?
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
What if the Jougans existed but to only the elite branch clanspeople? Not even the main family were allowed but only the branch. This is due to being branded at birth with a seal that will crush their eyes so it prevents them for ever being used against the main family.

Also, what other skills do you think they would have along side the Jougan? I see the Byakugan as very lackluster when it comes to high tier combat. It feels very much like a reconnaissance tool than for combat. It is on par with sharingan and that is it.

We know that the Uchiha were feared due to the sharingan but they also had mangekyu users (even though they are rare, they existed). Perhaps the same could be said to the Hyugas?
A "what if" scenario of abilities is always intriguing, but i must disagree with the basis for this one.

The Hyuga got ample focus in Naruto and even Shippuden maintained their importance during the Kage Summit (Ao vs Danzo).

Their style still worked against the likes of Kisame and even a Ten Tails arm/leg.

We just got more exposition on other powers, but the Hyuga powers were hardly negated by them. I mean, even Hinata forced someone like the Divine Path to totally avoid cqc and only use its powers! HINATA OF ALL HYUGA!
Post automatically merged:

I mean, why do you think they were made into a self-centred clan, not focussed on the rest of the village?

And the only two of them who had a proper Will of Fire (such that they would risk themselves for the village just like literally everyone else not named Hyuga) consisted of what was continuously shown as the weakest talent and another who was conveniently away from the village when the SPoP attacked!
 
Last edited:

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Hyuga got ample focus in Naruto and even Shippuden maintained their importance during the Kage Summit (Ao vs Danzo).
While they did get some air time, development wasn't there. (we know that things didn't ramp up until after Naruto get CM).
Hell, if I remember correctly, So6P is still the very top of the power scaling and Naruto is its reincarnation. So there weren't any Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Indra and Asura (which the latter 2 ended up becoming Sasuke's and Naruto's transmigrant, respectively). Which is why the Uzumaki Clan ended up being hinted of being Senjus rather than their own thing, which was hinted later on to be a different branch and Asura only swapped to Naruto due to being the closest one to be his vessel (rather than being a Senju).

Kinshiki's chakra armaments = Uzumaki chakra chains
Toneri's CM = Naruto's CM
duality = Yin and Yang brothers with Yin and Yang main family branch family
Uzumaki being distant cousins of Senju, which is similar to the Hyuga and Uchiha

The initial design of Hagoromo was also derived from Naruto as well.

Their style still worked against the likes of Kisame and even a Ten Tails arm/leg.
Certainly they can keep up with the likes of them but as I've said, they are not developed well enough. For instance, a Mangekyu (not eternal) Uchiha and SM (not perfect) Senju can take on 0tail Kisame.
But they can also hold on to a certain point on a 2v1 against the Juubi like Naruto and Sasuke had demostrated.

Maybe they need more than 2 as Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnated but I can definitely see Itachi, Obito/Kakashi (Mangekyu) fighting and holding their own against the Juubi.

Whereas the entire Hyuga family was needed to repel some parts of the Juubi.
So no, they aren't on par to the likes of Uchiha and Senju.

The air palm is on par with the chakra chains, amaterasu/tsukuyomi or mokuton (not the summons or god tree).

We just got more exposition on other powers, buttye Hyuga powers were hardly negated by them. I mean, even Hinata forced someone like the Divine Path to totally avoid cqc and only use its powers! HINATA OF ALL HYUGA!
yes, the Hyugas are powerful, as they should be. But as I was relating things to the other 3 god clans, the Hyugas fall short. They certainly is mid Shippuden level (when the Uchiha and Senju's godlike powers are still being developed).

But the one I am addressing is that they never developed any further until Boruto.

I mean, why do you think they were made into a self-centred clan, not focussed on the rest of the village?
They were made to put the clan above all else due to their Byakugan. The Uchiha isn't as restrictive as there are natural requirements and restrictions for the Sharingan unlike the Byakugan where it is already developed and ready to use. Its scouting capabilities are extraordinary as well in terms of tactics.

But again, that's just the pacing of Part 1 Naruto up to mid Shippuden in terms of scaling. After Madara revives, the Hyugas are meh. Just another special clan but utterly useless when it comes to fighting gods.
 
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
493
Kin
200💸
Kumi
96💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Each clan of Konoha, like the Uchiha, should have a second level of power.

A second level of power only reachable by the elites. For example, only elites Uchiha can have Mangekyo Sharingan.

For the Hyuga, they deserved to have a Super Hyuga power. Neji should have this power, in this manner, he could still compete with Naruto and Sasuke. A level 2 Byakugan or anything else. Imagine a eight trigrams 1000 palms.


You must be registered for see images


For the Nara clan, I imagine a super power in which the guy can completely turn his body in shadow. Their chakra can't be sensed by other for example.

For the Yamanaka clan, I can imagine brutal psychical attacks able to hurt the opponent's brain, and elites Yamanaka would have developped these jutsu in order to counter Uchiha during the old warring states.

You must be registered for see medias

For the Akimichi clan, a super mode to be physically almost invincible, with a body so strong that it could tank almost any attacks.

For the Aburame clan, a bug sage mode.

The Inuzuka clan would have a dog sage mode.

I think Kishimoto wanted to develop other clan, but publishers wanted only Naruto and Sasuke.
 

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Each clan of Konoha, like the Uchiha, should have a second level of power.
IDK about the 2nd power levels. Each clans have their own unique talent/power. But I do believe that the multiple ones are reserved to talented individuals from within those clans.

The Otsutsuki should be the outliers in this as they are the "progenitors" of chakra while the rest merely were students.

I do believe that the 2nd level of power should be based on specific individuals from within those clans developing their own power derived from the unique powers of their clan or refining them so much that it seems like a different technique.

As for the Otsutsuki Clans, it would be addressed like how the Uchihas were:
- potential to get Mangekyu due to the Otsutsuki lineage
- Susanoo for the special individuals from within the Otsutsuki Clans, which in this case the Uchiha

So Perhaps it would be like this for the other 3 lineages:

Hyuga:
- Jougan
- something that is greater than Air Palm?

Senju:
- body buffs (fast recovery, strength amplifications, etc)
- Sage Mode

Uzumaki
- fuinjutsu (sealing, releasing, etc.)
- Chakra Mode
Post automatically merged:

A level 2 Byakugan or anything else. Imagine a eight trigrams 1000 palms.
I can see the Air Palms being able to step up to the Susanoo, but perfect Susanoo?
Chakra Modes? Mokuton Sage Mode?

That's a maybe for me.
Maybe Kaguya's God Palms
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
While they did get some air time, development wasn't there. (we know that things didn't ramp up until after Naruto get CM).
Hell, if I remember correctly, So6P is still the very top of the power scaling and Naruto is its reincarnation. So there weren't any Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, Indra and Asura (which the latter 2 ended up becoming Sasuke's and Naruto's transmigrant, respectively). Which is why the Uzumaki Clan ended up being hinted of being Senjus rather than their own thing, which was hinted later on to be a different branch and Asura only swapped to Naruto due to being the closest one to be his vessel (rather than being a Senju).

Kinshiki's chakra armaments = Uzumaki chakra chains
Toneri's CM = Naruto's CM
duality = Yin and Yang brothers with Yin and Yang main family branch family
Uzumaki being distant cousins of Senju, which is similar to the Hyuga and Uchiha

The initial design of Hagoromo was also derived from Naruto as well.



Certainly they can keep up with the likes of them but as I've said, they are not developed well enough. For instance, a Mangekyu (not eternal) Uchiha and SM (not perfect) Senju can take on 0tail Kisame.
But they can also hold on to a certain point on a 2v1 against the Juubi like Naruto and Sasuke had demostrated.

Maybe they need more than 2 as Naruto and Sasuke are reincarnated but I can definitely see Itachi, Obito/Kakashi (Mangekyu) fighting and holding their own against the Juubi.

Whereas the entire Hyuga family was needed to repel some parts of the Juubi.
So no, they aren't on par to the likes of Uchiha and Senju.

The air palm is on par with the chakra chains, amaterasu/tsukuyomi or mokuton (not the summons or god tree).



yes, the Hyugas are powerful, as they should be. But as I was relating things to the other 3 god clans, the Hyugas fall short. They certainly is mid Shippuden level (when the Uchiha and Senju's godlike powers are still being developed).

But the one I am addressing is that they never developed any further until Boruto.



They were made to put the clan above all else due to their Byakugan. The Uchiha isn't as restrictive as there are natural requirements and restrictions for the Sharingan unlike the Byakugan where it is already developed and ready to use. Its scouting capabilities are extraordinary as well in terms of tactics.

But again, that's just the pacing of Part 1 Naruto up to mid Shippuden in terms of scaling. After Madara revives, the Hyugas are meh. Just another special clan but utterly useless when it comes to fighting gods.
Okay, lets clear things up

Are yyou saying the Hyuga were poorly done in general (compared to Akatsuki, other clans, kage) or only compared to the major clans of Uzumaki, Senju and Uchiha?

If the former, then i disagree based on what their powers were shown to do. I'd say that they simply didn't get as much air time as in Naruto, during Shippuden. To me, its like the Hyuga were given a gun in Naruto, while in Shippuden everyone else got flashy swords, spears, staves and all that, and were given 101 flashy moves with them. While it makes a strong impression, it doesn't put the Hyuga down at all because their plain gun still beats all these flashy swords.

I figure you meant the latter though. I just wanted to get that out.

If the latter, as i figure, then again i disagree. Irrespective of character designs and all that, the final villain as well as the most powerful race in existence right now are Hyuga ancestors. The best one can say is that Hyuga development simply wasn't necessary. And the reason Senju, Uchiha and Uzumaki were so powerful ultimately comes down to pure plot device - ancestral warfare - which doesn't apply to the Hyuga. So really, the very reason for all this is explained as being an exception even among the elite clans, so the Hyuga hype isn't disrespected or side lined. Its just like how a motivate person will spend more hours at the gym than a lazy person. When they come out super fit and buff, it doesn't mean the lazy guy is somehow inherently weaker. And even then, the Hyuga still got their unnecessary devlopment. Toneri and Hinata and the Tenseigan! It was totally unnecessary, yet they still got something. So the best one can say is that Hyuga development (Tenseigan) wasn't needed or relevant during Shippuden, not that it didn't happen. Again, it was unnecessary. The reason for Uchiha development in Shippuden is something that doesnt apply to the Hyuga, not because of inherent superiority.
Post automatically merged:

Each clan of Konoha, like the Uchiha, should have a second level of power.

A second level of power only reachable by the elites. For example, only elites Uchiha can have Mangekyo Sharingan.

For the Hyuga, they deserved to have a Super Hyuga power. Neji should have this power, in this manner, he could still compete with Naruto and Sasuke. A level 2 Byakugan or anything else. Imagine a eight trigrams 1000 palms.


You must be registered for see images


For the Nara clan, I imagine a super power in which the guy can completely turn his body in shadow. Their chakra can't be sensed by other for example.

For the Yamanaka clan, I can imagine brutal psychical attacks able to hurt the opponent's brain, and elites Yamanaka would have developped these jutsu in order to counter Uchiha during the old warring states.

You must be registered for see medias

For the Akimichi clan, a super mode to be physically almost invincible, with a body so strong that it could tank almost any attacks.

For the Aburame clan, a bug sage mode.

The Inuzuka clan would have a dog sage mode.

I think Kishimoto wanted to develop other clan, but publishers wanted only Naruto and Sasuke.
Same question as with above: do you mean this just for the fun of it or based on storyline equity and fairness?

If for fun, then sure.

If its about the story, then i don't see why it should be so. Within the story, those clans are ultimately just normal people who developed extraordinary powers on their own. They are already exceptional compared to their inputs (normal people and not genetic aliens).
 

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Are yyou saying the Hyuga were poorly done in general (compared to Akatsuki, other clans, kage) or only compared to the major clans of Uzumaki, Senju and Uchiha?
Only compared to the rest of the Otsutsuki clans.

I think the other clans, kages, Akatsukis were abandoned as well when the plot moved towards the Rikudou Senin and the entire thing moved towards completely going to Sasuke and Naruto only in terms of power scaling and development (and through association the Uchiha and Senju and Hagoromo's lineage in general)

Certainly the Hyugas were the main focus for Part 1 Naruto but as they moved forward to the whole Tailed Beasts and capturing Sasuke, the focus on Hyugas were left until they were touched up again later on in Part 2, Shippuden. Even still, it was only to scale everyone else to the current progression of our heroes (the story still does not make Naruto and Sasuke a pure focus but rather the Akatsuki, etc.)

And the reason Senju, Uchiha and Uzumaki were so powerful ultimately comes down to pure plot device - ancestral warfare - which doesn't apply to the Hyuga
Well, that's the thing: It does. Part of why Hyugas felt underdeveloped is due to the Hyuga being part of the Otsutsuki Clan.
The Uzumaki weren't involved too as we already know that they were annihilated and only Naruto was ever involved in the transmigrant wars due to the Senju not having any vessel.

You may argue about Nagato's involvement but the main reason for that is due to Madara picking him for his chakra and life force: Being part Senju and part Uzumaki. He is not a transmigrant himself. Merely a tool of it.

So really, the very reason for all this is explained as being an exception even among the elite clans, so the Hyuga hype isn't disrespected or side lined
They were side lined. Which is why we got The Last movie to get more idea of what the Hamura's side were like: The main family (which is undoubtedly where Hyugas were from) and the branch family (where Toneri is a complete copy of Naruto's Uzumaki powers, hence why I hypothesize that the Uzumaki is from Hamura's side).

With that said, whether or not the Hyugas are instrumental on the transmigrant wars is irrelevant. The reason why they felt lackluster and underdeveloped is due to their relation to the Otsutsuki and the powers that they (the other 3 clans) have because of that lineage.

And even then, the Hyuga still got their unnecessary devlopment. Toneri and Hinata and the Tenseigan! It was totally unnecessary, yet they still got something.
That wasn't unnecessary and that wasn't even about the Hyuga. Even during that movie, the Hyuga were merely plot devices. They exist there because of their ties to Hamura and the fact that their eyes are needed for the Tenseigan.

The movie was there to provide information to connect the dots and answer the "what if"

"what if it was the Yang (branch, younger, body) that wanted to evolve instead of the Yin (main, older, eyes)?"
"who is the 4th clan? what are they like?"
"what is the equivalent of Hagoromo on Hamura's side?"

These questions were more about the branch side of Hamura's family than the Yin (which is the Hyuga) and the combination of both.

So again, they are merely sidestories again.

So the best one can say is that Hyuga development (Tenseigan) wasn't needed or relevant during Shippuden, not that it didn't happen.
This is correct as the Tenseigan was more of the transmigrant war on the moon than the one on earth. They were reflective of what was transpiring on Earth.
Yin Sage of 6P: Hagoromo of Earth
Yang Sage of 6P: Hamura of Moon

Tenseigan wasn't relevant as it is almost impossible for the Moon people to get involved at that time. The full escalation of the war on the Moon did not happen until the summoning of the Gedo Mazou by Madara and the complete resurrection of the God Tree + Kaguya.

So they had no reason to be involved with the Earth and strive for the transcendence to So6P and gain Tenseigan (I think that even that was unknown to them until they saw what Madara accomplished).

The reason for Uchiha development in Shippuden is something that doesnt apply to the Hyuga, not because of inherent superiority.
Superiority was never in question here. The issue being addressed is the Hyuga being abandoned in terms of Otsutsuki power progression.

Sasuke and Naruto were scaling in power and through that the Uchiha and Uzumaki. However, Senjus also scaled along side the Uchiha as that were the 2 clans of Hagoromo. Uzumaki only scaled through Naruto.

However, because the Hyugas weren't involved, they were never directly developed. This is the issue here as they are completely involved for the Tenseigan. Yet, no development occured. Only Toneri, which can be associated with the branch family which proved too similar to Naruto which in turn is associated to the Uzumaki. Therefore, The Last movie solely focused on Naruto and Toneri and Hamura and the branch family.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Only compared to the rest of the Otsutsuki clans.

I think the other clans, kages, Akatsukis were abandoned as well when the plot moved towards the Rikudou Senin and the entire thing moved towards completely going to Sasuke and Naruto only in terms of power scaling and development (and through association the Uchiha and Senju and Hagoromo's lineage in general)

Certainly the Hyugas were the main focus for Part 1 Naruto but as they moved forward to the whole Tailed Beasts and capturing Sasuke, the focus on Hyugas were left until they were touched up again later on in Part 2, Shippuden. Even still, it was only to scale everyone else to the current progression of our heroes (the story still does not make Naruto and Sasuke a pure focus but rather the Akatsuki, etc.)



Well, that's the thing: It does. Part of why Hyugas felt underdeveloped is due to the Hyuga being part of the Otsutsuki Clan.
The Uzumaki weren't involved too as we already know that they were annihilated and only Naruto was ever involved in the transmigrant wars due to the Senju not having any vessel.

You may argue about Nagato's involvement but the main reason for that is due to Madara picking him for his chakra and life force: Being part Senju and part Uzumaki. He is not a transmigrant himself. Merely a tool of it.



They were side lined. Which is why we got The Last movie to get more idea of what the Hamura's side were like: The main family (which is undoubtedly where Hyugas were from) and the branch family (where Toneri is a complete copy of Naruto's Uzumaki powers, hence why I hypothesize that the Uzumaki is from Hamura's side).

With that said, whether or not the Hyugas are instrumental on the transmigrant wars is irrelevant. The reason why they felt lackluster and underdeveloped is due to their relation to the Otsutsuki and the powers that they (the other 3 clans) have because of that lineage.



That wasn't unnecessary and that wasn't even about the Hyuga. Even during that movie, the Hyuga were merely plot devices. They exist there because of their ties to Hamura and the fact that their eyes are needed for the Tenseigan.

The movie was there to provide information to connect the dots and answer the "what if"

"what if it was the Yang (branch, younger, body) that wanted to evolve instead of the Yin (main, older, eyes)?"
"who is the 4th clan? what are they like?"
"what is the equivalent of Hagoromo on Hamura's side?"

These questions were more about the branch side of Hamura's family than the Yin (which is the Hyuga) and the combination of both.

So again, they are merely sidestories again.



This is correct as the Tenseigan was more of the transmigrant war on the moon than the one on earth. They were reflective of what was transpiring on Earth.
Yin Sage of 6P: Hagoromo of Earth
Yang Sage of 6P: Hamura of Moon

Tenseigan wasn't relevant as it is almost impossible for the Moon people to get involved at that time. The full escalation of the war on the Moon did not happen until the summoning of the Gedo Mazou by Madara and the complete resurrection of the God Tree + Kaguya.

So they had no reason to be involved with the Earth and strive for the transcendence to So6P and gain Tenseigan (I think that even that was unknown to them until they saw what Madara accomplished).



Superiority was never in question here. The issue being addressed is the Hyuga being abandoned in terms of Otsutsuki power progression.

Sasuke and Naruto were scaling in power and through that the Uchiha and Uzumaki. However, Senjus also scaled along side the Uchiha as that were the 2 clans of Hagoromo. Uzumaki only scaled through Naruto.

However, because the Hyugas weren't involved, they were never directly developed. This is the issue here as they are completely involved for the Tenseigan. Yet, no development occured. Only Toneri, which can be associated with the branch family which proved too similar to Naruto which in turn is associated to the Uzumaki. Therefore, The Last movie solely focused on Naruto and Toneri and Hamura and the branch family.
Its in the reasons.

Hamura was as fully developed as Hagaromo, but his children didn't have emotional issues to solve, that's why they didn't have a spiritual link that allowed them to reach his power levels.

As for Akatsuki, is it sidelining or plot progression? In any story, there is a focus. So is it not simply a matter of them not being the main focus that they didn't get . . . all the crazy stuff?

Even with Naruto, his major powers in Shippuden came from Sage Mode and being a Kurama host. Those have more to do with choice and plot relevance instead of pure inherent powers. So that he gets so powerful is plot, not anything else.

What im trying to say here is that whatever the Hyuga got or didnt get isnt about being side lined, but unique factors that didn't apply to them, such as the ancestral warfare. So its fully explained and not a plot hole.
 

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Hamura was as fully developed as Hagaromo, but his children didn't have emotional issues to solve, that's why they didn't have a spiritual link that allowed them to reach his power levels.
Yes I agree. Hamura is basically a carbon copy of Hagoromo and vice versa. One is just the other half but since they are both 6 Paths, they basically are the same. One is more doujutsu focused while the other is life force.

Hagoromo's children's conflict were derived from Kaguya's Karma: BZ. As well as a clash of idealism. Remember, they were the new head of the Earth and its protectorate. We know of the hidden threat of the Otsutsuki and the clash against Kaguya and her twins so it is safe to say that this was a concern of the 2 brothers and how to best prepare for managing not only the inhabitants of the planet but also to be able to fight.

Hamura's children also had the same conflict as addressed in The Last movie to which ended up annihilating everyone on the Moon. This was derived on how best to look after Earth as well but with a different concern. It was more concern out of whether or not the humans are worth it.

Emotions have nothing to do with power scaling. It is simply that emotions ended up being the easiest way to unlocking the Sharingan as explained by Tobirama. He stated that the Sharingan is brought about by having immense special chakra focused on a specific part of the brain to which the chakra becomes reflected through the eyes and that is what gives someone the Sharingan.

You must be registered for see images

As for Akatsuki, is it sidelining or plot progression? In any story, there is a focus. So is it not simply a matter of them not being the main focus that they didn't get . . . all the crazy stuff?
Akatsuki were more plot progression than sidelining. They've done their part and they reached their fullest potential.

Even with Naruto, his major powers in Shippuden came from Sage Mode and being a Kurama host. Those have more to do with choice and plot relevance instead of pure inherent powers. So that he gets so powerful is plot, not anything else.
I do agree everything about Naruto was probably not well thought off as his design was from way way in the beginning. I mean there were so many retcons or redirection about him and the beings that he was supposed to be based off of.

For one, he was suppose to be Rikudou Sennin (before Kaguya and Hagoromo and Hamura were even a thing). I think this idea was introduced on Pervy Sage arc. Then this obviously changed later on to Asura. Which is why the Uzumaki's lineage is so confusing because they were being set up as the Senju's family when Nagato was introduced but was later scrapped after Nagato's arc and in the beginning of Madara/Tobi/Obito arc.

We also can't forget about the Kurama stuff as well. However, as for the KCM, that is completely derivative of the Uzumaki's fuinjutsu.
Differences of the Tailed Beast Mode compared to Otsutsuki Chakra Mode

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images


This wouldn't explain as to how and why Hamura's branch family has the exact same chakra mode as Naruto when they have no Tailed Beasts. As well as the TBCM looks extremely different compared to Naruto's CM (which is controlled by the 8 trigram Uzumaki seal).

but unique factors that didn't apply to them, such as the ancestral warfare.
Whether or not they are involved is irrelevant as that is latent powers that are reserved for the Otsutsuki Clans. It isn't about transmigrant wars neither as that wouldn't explain the fact that Obito and Toneri becoming incomplete Sage of 6 Paths. Neither one of them were transmigrants and yet they had the power and potential to transcend.

The fact that Uchiha members do not have to be transmigrants to unlock Mangekyou and on top of being a transmigrant to unlock the Susanoo.

Hyuga got or didnt get isnt about being side lined
Toneri's story is about the same transmigrant war as the Hagoromo's. So this time, it truly does involve the Hyuga. Yet, nothing. At best, this is the only thing that came up from being involved in that story:

You must be registered for see images

Not a complete upgrade that I was looking for but an upgrade nonetheless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Infant

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Yes I agree. Hamura is basically a carbon copy of Hagoromo and vice versa. One is just the other half but since they are both 6 Paths, they basically are the same. One is more doujutsu focused while the other is life force.

Hagoromo's children's conflict were derived from Kaguya's Karma: BZ. As well as a clash of idealism. Remember, they were the new head of the Earth and its protectorate. We know of the hidden threat of the Otsutsuki and the clash against Kaguya and her twins so it is safe to say that this was a concern of the 2 brothers and how to best prepare for managing not only the inhabitants of the planet but also to be able to fight.

Hamura's children also had the same conflict as addressed in The Last movie to which ended up annihilating everyone on the Moon. This was derived on how best to look after Earth as well but with a different concern. It was more concern out of whether or not the humans are worth it.

Emotions have nothing to do with power scaling. It is simply that emotions ended up being the easiest way to unlocking the Sharingan as explained by Tobirama. He stated that the Sharingan is brought about by having immense special chakra focused on a specific part of the brain to which the chakra becomes reflected through the eyes and that is what gives someone the Sharingan.

You must be registered for see images



Akatsuki were more plot progression than sidelining. They've done their part and they reached their fullest potential.



I do agree everything about Naruto was probably not well thought off as his design was from way way in the beginning. I mean there were so many retcons or redirection about him and the beings that he was supposed to be based off of.

For one, he was suppose to be Rikudou Sennin (before Kaguya and Hagoromo and Hamura were even a thing). I think this idea was introduced on Pervy Sage arc. Then this obviously changed later on to Asura. Which is why the Uzumaki's lineage is so confusing because they were being set up as the Senju's family when Nagato was introduced but was later scrapped after Nagato's arc and in the beginning of Madara/Tobi/Obito arc.

We also can't forget about the Kurama stuff as well. However, as for the KCM, that is completely derivative of the Uzumaki's fuinjutsu.
Differences of the Tailed Beast Mode compared to Otsutsuki Chakra Mode

You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images


This wouldn't explain as to how and why Hamura's branch family has the exact same chakra mode as Naruto when they have no Tailed Beasts. As well as the TBCM looks extremely different compared to Naruto's CM (which is controlled by the 8 trigram Uzumaki seal).



Whether or not they are involved is irrelevant as that is latent powers that are reserved for the Otsutsuki Clans. It isn't about transmigrant wars neither as that wouldn't explain the fact that Obito and Toneri becoming incomplete Sage of 6 Paths. Neither one of them were transmigrants and yet they had the power and potential to transcend.

The fact that Uchiha members do not have to be transmigrants to unlock Mangekyou and on top of being a transmigrant to unlock the Susanoo.



Toneri's story is about the same transmigrant war as the Hagoromo's. So this time, it truly does involve the Hyuga. Yet, nothing. At best, this is the only thing that came up from being involved in that story:

You must be registered for see images

Not a complete upgrade that I was looking for but an upgrade nonetheless.
As with thother thread, the pivotal point is on why the Uchiha got these major powers

They had not only the blood of their ancestors, butntheir fighting spirit as well. The rivalry between the brothers is one that inspires them to continuously reincarnate. Hamura does not have this. Whatever politics happened with him was not so strong as to inspire his spirit to further boost the genetic powers of his clan.
 

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
further boost the genetic powers of his clan.

Ancestral wars and the advancement of warfare isn't relevant here. Remember, the Mangekyu was rare and not a lot of people were able to awaken it. Let alone able to use the Susanoo. Same problem for the Senju. For all we know, only Hashirama had the Sage Mode.
The Uzumaki as well. Only select few had the chakra chains. So your reasoning does not apply.
Sharingan, Mangekyu, Chakra Mode, Sage Mode, etc. everything is tied to the Otsutsuki lineage.
These techs exist regardless of the arms race. Because they weren't techniques to develop in the first place.

You're treating the whole thing as the case of Tobirama. He is developing techniques to get stronger, etc. While I am saying is that it is more like Hiashi Hyuga, he is born with the Byakugan. You don't develop the Byakugan and what not.

Also, the Susanoo existed ever since Indra. So it is pointless to say about ancestral warfare.

As for the reasoning that the warfare is what escalated them to dig up old techniques, that is fair. However, the Hyugas had their fair share of internal wars. To the point where they developed an entire hierarchy around it (enslaving the branch).

Thats the train of thought that I was saying. These are all inherent things. Things that were denied the Hyugas.
We only ever see the Jougan come up with the Boruto one shots illustrations (again, the logic can be used that Kishi hid that fact as to not spoil the Boruto story)


You must be registered for see images
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Ancestral wars and the advancement of warfare isn't relevant here. Remember, the Mangekyu was rare and not a lot of people were able to awaken it. Let alone able to use the Susanoo. Same problem for the Senju. For all we know, only Hashirama had the Sage Mode.
The Uzumaki as well. Only select few had the chakra chains. So your reasoning does not apply.
Sharingan, Mangekyu, Chakra Mode, Sage Mode, etc. everything is tied to the Otsutsuki lineage.
These techs exist regardless of the arms race. Because they weren't techniques to develop in the first place.

You're treating the whole thing as the case of Tobirama. He is developing techniques to get stronger, etc. While I am saying is that it is more like Hiashi Hyuga, he is born with the Byakugan. You don't develop the Byakugan and what not.

Also, the Susanoo existed ever since Indra. So it is pointless to say about ancestral warfare.

As for the reasoning that the warfare is what escalated them to dig up old techniques, that is fair. However, the Hyugas had their fair share of internal wars. To the point where they developed an entire hierarchy around it (enslaving the branch).

Thats the train of thought that I was saying. These are all inherent things. Things that were denied the Hyugas.
We only ever see the Jougan come up with the Boruto one shots illustrations (again, the logic can be used that Kishi hid that fact as to not spoil the Boruto story)


You must be registered for see images
We are directly told that the powers of the clans are born from the strength of the rivalry of their ancestors, so it is relevant.

Even discounting Madara and Hashirama, their clans emotional qualities (hate vs love) are directly linked to their ancestors.

Perhaps those reasons can be questioned, but we are defintely given something to explain the differences between them and the Hyuga.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wanderingcactus

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Perhaps those reasons can be questioned, but we are defintely given something to explain the differences between them and the Hyuga.
I still think that it was due to Kishi lacking time or rather the need to develop the Hyugas further. Certainly since the Hyugas are part of the Otsutsuki family, they already have inherit powers. Same can be said to the Uzumaki but they got developed further along as they received chakra chains on top of their fuinjutsu.

I still think that the Hyuga should be explored further and that Boruto is not a special case (in terms of the only person being able to awaken the Jougan). I believe that the Jougan and the techniques derived from it are accessible to the rest of the Hyuga clan.
 

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I still think that it was due to Kishi lacking time or rather the need to develop the Hyugas further. Certainly since the Hyugas are part of the Otsutsuki family, they already have inherit powers. Same can be said to the Uzumaki but they got developed further along as they received chakra chains on top of their fuinjutsu.

I still think that the Hyuga should be explored further and that Boruto is not a special case (in terms of the only person being able to awaken the Jougan). I believe that the Jougan and the techniques derived from it are accessible to the rest of the Hyuga clan.
That is almost guranteed to be true.

I was looking at it from an in-verse perspective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wanderingcactus

salamander uchiha

Active member
Legendary
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
17,337
Kin
7,816💸
Kumi
5,794💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
A Hyuga/Uchiha rivalry seemed more sensible, dojutsu countering dojutsu makes more sense. And it would explain away any nerf the Uchiha underwent. A Senju/Uchiha rivalry never really made sense. The former have no ability to counter the Sharingan's haxxes outside of SM, yet only Hashirama showed it and it was quite rare. 3T can put you under genjutsu, followed by a blitz for a neg diff, you have predictive vison to counter and kill etc. They had to be nerfed, yet the nerf could be removed by making the Hyuga the rival clan.
 

wanderingcactus

Active member
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
4,759
Kin
1,921💸
Kumi
1,257💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
A Hyuga/Uchiha rivalry seemed more sensible, dojutsu countering dojutsu makes more sense. And it would explain away any nerf the Uchiha underwent. A Senju/Uchiha rivalry never really made sense. The former have no ability to counter the Sharingan's haxxes outside of SM, yet only Hashirama showed it and it was quite rare. 3T can put you under genjutsu, followed by a blitz for a neg diff, you have predictive vison to counter and kill etc. They had to be nerfed, yet the nerf could be removed by making the Hyuga the rival clan.
I agree with this. Sharingan and Byakugan were always the best rival anyways.

Also I don't get why SM was such a rare thing. Like Tsunade doesn't have it, even though she is a descendant of Hashirama, which is why she had to create her own technique. But Orochimaru and Jiraiya had Snake and Toad Sage Modes. IDGI.
 

Uverdore9

Active member
Elite
Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Messages
6,070
Kin
391💸
Kumi
247💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Hyuga are likely a god ethereal race or species that obtained thier magical capabilities by the spiritual realm. It's a fact that spirit entities that exists in the spirit worlds exudes a spiritual physique that does not allow them to interact physically, and likely ghost phases each other due to that fact hence they implicitly require a physical earthly manifestation to substantially interact hence it's likely an ethereal manifestation of sorts has been physically manifested by them to acclimate such interactions. This is likely why the biblical character, Nimrod, and certain spiritual cults manifested earthly pyramid like and conical gargantuan exorbitantly towering over the skies structures to physically interact with them, hence it's likely that when spirits and ghosts broach the physical plane they absorb the natural energy around them and transfigure solidity to thier spirit ghost like physique, and interact subsequently and conccurently in accordance with thier pertinent power capabilities they manifest as gargantuan demonic entities like goliath or mini spirits like dwarfs, pixies, fairies etc cera.

Chakra is comprised of spiritual and physical energies implying that it possesses the spiritual power of the spirit ghost plane but it tangentially requires physical energy to substantiate in the material realm, however it's a fact that energy is elementally physical and possesses little to no technical attributes to broach the spirit ghost plane implying that it requires certain third party scientific applications like frequencies, resonance and the likes to interact implying that substantiating the spirit existence requires the tapping into specific mathematical equations that like a technology computer program programs the spiritual power to interact with that physical energy, and the associated physical power that it's intrinsically linked to ie., the spiritual power manifesting a way to interact with the physical energy, and the associated physical power of that physical energy.

The Hyūga Clan likely exemplified this fact in a way that the Otsūtsūki's spirit manifested on earth and broached it's stratosphere and tangentially it's atmosphere and implicitly absorbed it's natural energy to manifest individually to gift thier god powers magically or likely possessed the clan entities that contains extremely talented genes, and assimilated with thier deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) to progressively amplify the Hyūga as they develop and exude thier genetic potentiality.

Key evidence of this lies in Otsūtsūki Momoshiki acclimating the ghost enchanting of Uzumaki Bolt to potentially gift him god like powers progressively. Otsūtsūki Momoshiki is likely an example of a mild comparatively meek god spirit as signified by his sleek physicality, contrasted with Otsūtsūki Kinshiki who possessed gargantuan levels of physical power ie., a goliath like entity instance.

I think that, to surmise, the Hyuga clan would acclaim plot relevance via the Otsūtsūki that significantly reflects thier and appearance attributes as they keep subconsciously tapping the sensory and spiritual information of the spirit realms by the extrapolated tower prototype that exudes frequency signals that mathematically match and facilitate the subsequent interaction.
 

minamoto

Active member
Supreme
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
20,234
Kin
17,338💸
Kumi
2,608💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Hyuga are likely a god ethereal race or species that obtained thier magical capabilities by the spiritual realm. It's a fact that spirit entities that exists in the spirit worlds exudes a spiritual physique that does not allow them to interact physically, and likely ghost phases each other due to that fact hence they implicitly require a physical earthly manifestation to substantially interact hence it's likely an ethereal manifestation of sorts has been physically manifested by them to acclimate such interactions. This is likely why the biblical character, Nimrod, and certain spiritual cults manifested earthly pyramid like and conical gargantuan exorbitantly towering over the skies structures to physically interact with them, hence it's likely that when spirits and ghosts broach the physical plane they absorb the natural energy around them and transfigure solidity to thier spirit ghost like physique, and interact subsequently and conccurently in accordance with thier pertinent power capabilities they manifest as gargantuan demonic entities like goliath or mini spirits like dwarfs, pixies, fairies etc cera.

Chakra is comprised of spiritual and physical energies implying that it possesses the spiritual power of the spirit ghost plane but it tangentially requires physical energy to substantiate in the material realm, however it's a fact that energy is elementally physical and possesses little to no technical attributes to broach the spirit ghost plane implying that it requires certain third party scientific applications like frequencies, resonance and the likes to interact implying that substantiating the spirit existence requires the tapping into specific mathematical equations that like a technology computer program programs the spiritual power to interact with that physical energy, and the associated physical power that it's intrinsically linked to ie., the spiritual power manifesting a way to interact with the physical energy, and the associated physical power of that physical energy.

The Hyūga Clan likely exemplified this fact in a way that the Otsūtsūki's spirit manifested on earth and broached it's stratosphere and tangentially it's atmosphere and implicitly absorbed it's natural energy to manifest individually to gift thier god powers magically or likely possessed the clan entities that contains extremely talented genes, and assimilated with thier deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) to progressively amplify the Hyūga as they develop and exude thier genetic potentiality.

Key evidence of this lies in Otsūtsūki Momoshiki acclimating the ghost enchanting of Uzumaki Bolt to potentially gift him god like powers progressively. Otsūtsūki Momoshiki is likely an example of a mild comparatively meek god spirit as signified by his sleek physicality, contrasted with Otsūtsūki Kinshiki who possessed gargantuan levels of physical power ie., a goliath like entity instance.

I think that, to surmise, the Hyuga clan would acclaim plot relevance via the Otsūtsūki that significantly reflects thier and appearance attributes as they keep subconsciously tapping the sensory and spiritual information of the spirit realms by the extrapolated tower prototype that exudes frequency signals that mathematically match and facilitate the subsequent interaction.
can't u put a sumary???? daz it have to be wall of text???...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Infant

Infant

Active member
Regular
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Messages
731
Kin
2,202💸
Kumi
708💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The Hyuga are likely a god ethereal race or species that obtained thier magical capabilities by the spiritual realm. It's a fact that spirit entities that exists in the spirit worlds exudes a spiritual physique that does not allow them to interact physically, and likely ghost phases each other due to that fact hence they implicitly require a physical earthly manifestation to substantially interact hence it's likely an ethereal manifestation of sorts has been physically manifested by them to acclimate such interactions. This is likely why the biblical character, Nimrod, and certain spiritual cults manifested earthly pyramid like and conical gargantuan exorbitantly towering over the skies structures to physically interact with them, hence it's likely that when spirits and ghosts broach the physical plane they absorb the natural energy around them and transfigure solidity to thier spirit ghost like physique, and interact subsequently and conccurently in accordance with thier pertinent power capabilities they manifest as gargantuan demonic entities like goliath or mini spirits like dwarfs, pixies, fairies etc cera.

Chakra is comprised of spiritual and physical energies implying that it possesses the spiritual power of the spirit ghost plane but it tangentially requires physical energy to substantiate in the material realm, however it's a fact that energy is elementally physical and possesses little to no technical attributes to broach the spirit ghost plane implying that it requires certain third party scientific applications like frequencies, resonance and the likes to interact implying that substantiating the spirit existence requires the tapping into specific mathematical equations that like a technology computer program programs the spiritual power to interact with that physical energy, and the associated physical power that it's intrinsically linked to ie., the spiritual power manifesting a way to interact with the physical energy, and the associated physical power of that physical energy.

The Hyūga Clan likely exemplified this fact in a way that the Otsūtsūki's spirit manifested on earth and broached it's stratosphere and tangentially it's atmosphere and implicitly absorbed it's natural energy to manifest individually to gift thier god powers magically or likely possessed the clan entities that contains extremely talented genes, and assimilated with thier deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) to progressively amplify the Hyūga as they develop and exude thier genetic potentiality.

Key evidence of this lies in Otsūtsūki Momoshiki acclimating the ghost enchanting of Uzumaki Bolt to potentially gift him god like powers progressively. Otsūtsūki Momoshiki is likely an example of a mild comparatively meek god spirit as signified by his sleek physicality, contrasted with Otsūtsūki Kinshiki who possessed gargantuan levels of physical power ie., a goliath like entity instance.

I think that, to surmise, the Hyuga clan would acclaim plot relevance via the Otsūtsūki that significantly reflects thier and appearance attributes as they keep subconsciously tapping the sensory and spiritual information of the spirit realms by the extrapolated tower prototype that exudes frequency signals that mathematically match and facilitate the subsequent interaction.
It may not be wise to exlain spritual mechanics . . .

Nonetheless, your point works on the basis of spritual characteristics necessitating spiritual origins. Cant it simply be that the Byakugan bears spritual qualities but isnt predominantly spritual?
 
Top