Tsunade vs Hiashi

[Strict]

Just read the manga when Jiraiya was about to leave.

Who is the man with the most hype as a jounin? Kakashi
Who was the man that was considered for hokage (due to his strength)? Kakashi

Not the strongest one is considered as a Hokage candidate, the character is more important.

I don't care about the hype Kakashi has, if he isn't stated to be the strongest Jonin, he isn't in canon. The Hyuga-clan however is stated to have the strongest people and Hiashi is the strongest among them. The Hyuga-clan is as well not involved into Konoha's business as much as other groups including Kakashi, who was also among the Anbu.

Kakashi was hyped for his talent and abilities, but he wasn't stated to be the strongest. That's your claim. And a claim without evidence has no weight in a debate.

 

[BLAZE]

Since the start of the manga, Kakashi has been shown as the strongest jounin in the leaf.. last time i checked Hiashi was also a jounin.

Scans please

 

[KingHashirama]

Scans please

Databook homie, hes classified as a jounin.

 

[BLAZE]

Databook homie, hes classified as a jounin.

no he isn't
Edit: My bad he is

 

[KingHashirama]

Not the strongest one is considered as a Hokage candidate, the character is more important.

I don't care about the hype Kakashi has, if he isn't stated to be the strongest Jonin, he isn't in canon. The Hyuga-clan however is stated to have the strongest people and Hiashi is the strongest among them. The Hyuga-clan is as well not involved into Konoha's business as much as other groups including Kakashi, who was also among the Anbu.

Kakashi was hyped for his talent and abilities, but he wasn't stated to be the strongest. That's your claim. And a claim without evidence has no weight in a debate.

Thats cool.. but sorry to tell you that the conversation between Jiraiya and Tsunade was about power, who was the strongest after them. Hokage since day 1 has been about power (of course you can use kakashi as an excuse to this, but then he was made hokage for Naruto to still grow more and enjoy.).

No according to the hyuuga they are the strongest CLAN in the leaf.. and Hiashi is their strongest person.. cool. Kakashi isn't from a clan..

Ninjutsu = Kakashi
Taijutsu = Hiashi > Kakashi by a small amount
genjutsu= Kakashi >> Hiashi by a huge amount

Even the databook stats show Kakashi being a far superior shinobi.

I'll wait until you give me a real feat of Hiashi being in a battle against elite ninja.. I will wait. Unless you are in denial of some sort.. anyone who is new to the manga would be able to tell, Gai or Kakashi are the strongest, and considering Kakashi was always been the superior one in the gai vs kakashi.. Kakashi is the strongest jounin. Denying this is denying the manga. You claim i have no evidence, i have evidence stated above.. choice is yours.. do you want things to be written out clearly for you, or you can use your brain to analyze evidence and make a claim.

 

[Strict]

Thats cool.. but sorry to tell you that the conversation between Jiraiya and Tsunade was about power, who was the strongest after them. Hokage since day 1 has been about power (of course you can use kakashi as an excuse to this, but then he was made hokage for Naruto to still grow more and enjoy.).

No according to the hyuuga they are the strongest CLAN in the leaf.. and Hiashi is their strongest person.. cool. Kakashi isn't from a clan..

Ninjutsu = Kakashi
Taijutsu = Hiashi > Kakashi by a small amount
genjutsu= Kakashi >> Hiashi by a huge amount

Even the databook stats show Kakashi being a far superior shinobi.

I'll wait until you give me a real feat of Hiashi being in a battle against elite ninja.. I will wait. Unless you are in denial of some sort.. anyone who is new to the manga would be able to tell, Gai or Kakashi are the strongest, and considering Kakashi was always been the superior one in the gai vs kakashi.. Kakashi is the strongest jounin. Denying this is denying the manga. You claim i have no evidence, i have evidence stated above.. choice is yours.. do you want things to be written out clearly for you, or you can use your brain to analyze evidence and make a claim.

You beat about the bush a lot. You said that Kakashi has been stated to be the strongest Jounin of the leaf. Either you prove your claim with a scan or we're done here.

In the war, the Hyugas were stated to be the strongest of the leaf, fact: [

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]. Not the strongest "clan", the strongest overall. And Hiashi is the strongest among them. Manga fact, period.

And if I really need to demonstrate you the power of the Hyuga, you may better reread some chapters. The Hyugas are known for their extraordinary power and skills. Neji was a prodigy said to surpass Sasuke in skills and power, and we can project Sasuke and Neji to Kakashi and Hiashi. Kakashi himself stated that the Byakugan is the superior Doujutsu (compared to the 3T Sharingan). All manga facts.

Ninjutsu = Kakashi
Taijutsu = Hiashi >>> Kakashi
Genjutsu = Kakashi though Kakashi's Genjutsu are not on a level notable for a fight with a higher ranked Shinobi; the Byakugan has shown how it can detect Genjutsu.

And I don't care what the stats are, they are not representative for the rank.

By facts, Hiashi is the strongest of the leaf (not counting Hokages, but in Tsunade's case maybe).


You are the perfect example of biased debaters, beating about the bush without any evidence. "But Jiraiya was clearly talking about power", "even the databook says that Kakashi was a great shinobi", "Kakashi has a lot of hype" blah blah.

Don't waste my time.

 

[KingHashirama]

You beat about the bush a lot. You said that Kakashi has been stated to be the strongest Jounin of the leaf. Either you prove your claim with a scan or we're done here.

Nope, you just couldn't read it properly without getting offended or something by it:

Since the start of the manga, Kakashi has been shown as the strongest jounin in the leaf.. last time i checked Hiashi was also a jounin.

notice the difference in the bolded words bro.

In the war, the Hyugas were stated to be the strongest of the leaf, fact: [

You must be registered for see links

]. Not the strongest "clan", the strongest overall. And Hiashi is the strongest among them. Manga fact, period.

And if I really need to demonstrate you the power of the Hyuga, you may better reread some chapters. The Hyugas are known for their extraordinary power and skills. Neji was a prodigy said to surpass Sasuke in skills and power, and we can project Sasuke and Neji to Kakashi and Hiashi. Kakashi himself stated that the Byakugan is the superior Doujutsu (compared to the 3T Sharingan). All manga facts.

Ninjutsu = Kakashi
Taijutsu = Hiashi >>> Kakashi
Genjutsu = Kakashi though Kakashi's Genjutsu are not on a level notable for a fight with a higher ranked Shinobi; the Byakugan has shown how it can detect Genjutsu.

And I don't care what the stats are, they are not representative for the rank.

By facts, Hiashi is the strongest of the leaf (not counting Hokages, but in Tsunade's case maybe).


You are the perfect example of biased debaters, beating about the bush without any evidence. "But Jiraiya was clearly talking about power", "even the databook says that Kakashi was a great shinobi", "Kakashi has a lot of hype" blah blah.

Don't waste my time.

By what facts? one you pulled out of nowhere? or the ones that you denied? Lol

"hyuuga" is a clan.. aka they are the strongest clan.... rofl. Its pretty simple.. you can read the databook also. Hyuuga is stated to describe the clan by Hiashi.. since he was talking about his clan members protecting Naruto. Kakashi isn't from any clan.

PS: People will 35s in the databook will stomp your Hiashi who only has a 30.. so lets not even try to put him on Tsunade's level ok?

And don't call me a biased debater when all i have done is given proof to what has been shown in the manga, while all oyu have done is denied it without a reasonable counter, and continued to cling to a quote you failed to even understand. So I do wonder who is the biased one here.

The man who became the hokage and is recognized by all the countries for his power Or the man who is the head of a clan in konoha, who serves under Kakashi? Answer is pretty easy.

Oh also, Kakashi tied it with Obito in a genjutsu battle someone who was able to keep a perfect jinchuriki inside a genjutsu

 

[Made in Heaven]

By what facts? one you pulled out of nowhere? or the ones that you denied? Lol

"hyuuga" is a clan.. aka they are the strongest clan.... rofl. Its pretty simple.. you can read the databook also. Hyuuga is stated to describe the clan by Hiashi.. since he was talking about his clan members protecting Naruto. Kakashi isn't from any clan.

PS: People will 35s in the databook will stomp your Hiashi who only has a 30.. so lets not even try to put him on Tsunade's level ok?

And don't call me a biased debater when all i have done is given proof to what has been shown in the manga, while all oyu have done is denied it without a reasonable counter, and continued to cling to a quote you failed to even understand. So I do wonder who is the biased one here.

The man who became the hokage and is recognized by all the countries for his power Or the man who is the head of a clan in konoha, who serves under Kakashi? Answer is pretty easy.

Oh also, Kakashi tied it with Obito in a genjutsu battle someone who was able to keep a perfect jinchuriki inside a genjutsu

First Bold: Are you telling me you believe RST Naruto is equal to Sakura, seeing as they both score 26 ?

Actually, you probably do, I shouldn't have asked. Lol

Second Bold: I can't even express how badly I want to ridicule you for actually bringing such a pathetic argument that ignores context in every way into this debate

Only reasons Kakashi was made to be Hokage

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Not because he is strong. He couldn't even protect his own village from a meteorite, while all the other Kages were doing just that Lol

When the **** was Kakashi acknowledged by all the countries for his power ?

 

[Strict]

Hyuuga is a clan consisting of Shinobi. And my scan clearly said, the Hyuugas are the strongest of the leave. Not just the strongest clan. The strongest of the leaf.

Naruto has a databook stat of 26. Now tell me that part 1 Kakashi with 3 tomoe beats war arc SM Naruto (without the usage of Kyuubi). (I know the 3th databook ends with the fight of Sasuke and Itachi, but base Naruto surely didn't improve much apart from learning Sage Mode, and the 3th databook includes Rasengan and Rasenshuriken for Ninjutsu, so even in war arc, he isn't reaching even the 30). And now tell me part 1 Kakashi beats war arc SM Naruto who can use boss summons, Tajuu Kagebunshin no Jutsu and a perfect SM.

And reputation doesn't only come with strength but also with ambition and actions. As I said, the Hyuuga are not as much involved in Konoha's domestic and external policy as certain persons are. Kakashi was the ideal Hokage not only because of strength but also because of intelligence, ideals and ambitions.

Still no proof for your claim, you just harp on about hype. According to Itachi's hype he beats everyone else. Hyped to be the best graduate to ever exist in the academy (surpassing the Hokage as well) and stated by Kaguya's son and founder of Shinobi history to be absolutely invincible - supported by the Databook as well. Hashirama claiming that Itachi is a better Shinobi than him. Everyone, Hashirama and Kaguya's son hyped him. You want to go on?

 

[KingHashirama]

Naruto = main character who grows

Hiashi = side character who has already developed


No clue why you compared them.


@LadyByakugan, don't worry your lord Hiashi wouldn't be able to scratch a metorite either. And its funny even Gaara acknowledged Kakashi for Hokage due to his prowess...over Hiashi.. lord damn.


Really tho.. I'm not even a Kakashi fan, but this is a plain out thing from the manga, that Kakashi has been the strongest jounin since part 1....

@Strict, dude stop complaining about hype (considering you were dumb enough to bring in Itachi's hype of being invincible and thought that means he can beat everyone)..If you do not understand "hype" then do not talk about it BUT this isn't about just hype, this is about their skills as a shinobi. And how the ninja world acknowledges their skills as a shinobi. Kakashi doesn't need to go out and say Hatake are the strongest.


Kakashi's "reputation" comes from his strength.

 

[Made in Heaven]

@LadyByakugan, don't worry your lord Hiashi wouldn't be able to scratch a metorite either. And its funny even Gaara acknowledged Kakashi for Hokage due to his prowess...over Hiashi.. lord damn.

Really tho.. I'm not even a Kakashi fan, but this is a plain out thing from the manga, that Kakashi has been the strongest jounin since part 1....

Still would have done a better job than Kakashi, given how huge his Air Palm was. Point remains, Kakashi is the fodderest of fodder kages, since he had to rely on fodder gate users and Lee and Sasuke to help stop a meteorite, so you using his status as Hokage, which holds no value to begin with, since it was just given to him for no explainable reason other than to ease the butthurt of his fan base, is pointless.

When did Gaara acknowledge Kakashi? And how the hell would that even prove Kakashi's prowess is better than Hiashi's? That idiot of a Hokage didn't even have the common sense to initially include Hinata in a search party. which only further proves how bad and undeserving of the hokage title he really is.

You still haven't shown me where Kakashi was praised by all the countries for his power ? Why are you making a claim and not backing it up ?

Also, answer this:

Are you telling me you believe RST Naruto is equal to Sakura, seeing as they both score 26 ?

Why am I even arguing this? Wasn't this about Tsunade?

 

[KingHashirama]

Still would have done a better job than Kakashi, given how huge his Air Palm was. Point remains, Kakashi is the fodderest of fodder kages, since he had to rely on fodder gate users and Lee and Sasuke to help stop a meteorite, so you using his status as Hokage, which holds no value to begin with, since it was just given to him for no explainable reason other than to ease the butthurt of his fan base, is pointless.

When did Gaara acknowledge Kakashi? And how the hell would that even prove Kakashi's prowess is better than Hiashi's? That idiot of a Hokage didn't even have the common sense to initially include Hinata in a search party. which only further proves how bad and undeserving of the hokage title he really is.

You still haven't shown me where Kakashi was praised by all the countries for his power ? Why are you making a claim and not backing it up ?

Also, answer this:


Why am I even arguing this? Wasn't this about Tsunade?

When Gaara said Kakashi would act as the Hokage, when Danzo was eliminated. .


Why would I answer something that would only lead to you flaming on me, and other idiots flaming on me , without understanding how FRS isn't that big of a threat to Sakura... And then you have the mere fact that Sakura's speciality was being a support character.. unless Naruto with his 26 can do medical ninjutsu on Sakura's level.

 

[KingHashirama]

Still no proof for your claim, you just harp on about hype. According to Itachi's hype he beats everyone else. Hyped to be the best graduate to ever exist in the academy (surpassing the Hokage as well) and stated by Kaguya's son and founder of Shinobi history to be absolutely invincible - supported by the Databook as well. Hashirama claiming that Itachi is a better Shinobi than him. Everyone, Hashirama and Kaguya's son hyped him. You want to go on?

Now lets see how much you even understood about Itachi's hype.

Itachi being invincible = As long as he has Yata and Totsuka on he is invincible. 1 problem, he can't have them out for long. And they are too easy for people to avoid. Zetsu hyped the weapons, not Itachi himself. Itachi is only invincible, if the weapons he weilds are invincible.

Is a better shinobi than Hashirama = He probably is.. now did you think about it in the conversation? What was Hashirama told about Itachi? He was told that the kid at a young age killed his whole clan for the sake of the village. Was he told he was used by Danzo so Danzo could have a chance in getting leadership? Was he told he allied with Obito who later attacked the village? no... Tobirama wasn't told that either. And then you have the fact he was laughing and winking while he said it to calm down Sasuke to try to change him. So try to understand the "hype" before claiming it to be bs or w.e.

Academy hype:

Sanin graduted academy at AGE of 6
Kakashi graduated academy at Age of 5
Itachi graduated avademy at Age of 7

 

[TheLastSensei]

Hiashi stomps.

 

[Made in Heaven]

When Gaara said Kakashi would act as the Hokage, when Danzo was eliminated. .


Why would I answer something that would only lead to you flaming on me, and other idiots flaming on me , without understanding how FRS isn't that big of a threat to Sakura... And then you have the mere fact that Sakura's speciality was being a support character.. unless Naruto with his 26 can do medical ninjutsu on Sakura's level.

Firstly, I was referring to the Sakura and Naruto before the Pain arc.

Secondly, lmao.

 

[Power Bottom]

I don't understand how this is debatable.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Why is she still trying to make the hyugga a thing, they die

 

[Ambivalence]

I don't understand how this is debatable.

Apparently it is, quite largely so, too.

Surprisingly, Hiashi isn't backed up by LB only, so take that as you will.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Apparently it is, quite largely so, too.

Surprisingly, Hiashi isn't backed up by LB only, so take that as you will.

I bet you were expecting everyone to side with your opinion, huh ?

 

[Ambivalence]

I bet you were expecting everyone to side with your opinion, huh ?

Don't patronize me, I never really had an opinion after creating this thread. Initially I thought Tsunade beats him, but since Blazing, a member who I don't ignore and dismiss as a blind fanboy and semi-troll (unlike you), disagreed with me, then I made this thread and stayed neutral so I can see who truly wins.

Also, I can hardly trust the opinion of a member who thinks that The Last Hinata = Hamura, can I?

As it is now, the thread is receiving mixed opinions, though only Strict and Icelerate's arguments are solid.