Tsunade... The great tsunadee..

Tazzilla88

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They call it, Edo tensei.





The only reason tsunade is hokage because jiraiya turned it down, he was the original choice for Hokage
The reason Jiraiya was considered above Tsunade is because the Elders didn't think she could be found or convinced. Any of the legendary three was considered to have adequate power but Orochimaru was evil and Tsunade hadn't been seen for years. So of course, Jiraiya who was already in the village was asked.
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Beyond that the elders thought that even if Tsunade could be found she couldn't be convinced.
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had Jiraiya been hokage, Naruto would not have gotten sage mode and to be honest might never have gotten past part 1. Kakashi would never have been healed. Neither would Sasuke. And if you think a decree from the hokage would have gotten the formerly cynical Tsunade there, then you don't know her character well at all. In fact, Jiraiya was already in the village before Orochimaru's attack, knew the third was looking for him, and made sure the third didn't find out he was in town. So he's partially at fault for the Third's demise had he made his presence clear he may have been able to team up with the third to take Orochimaru down for the count. He is intelligent but he is also brash. What he realized while being beaten to death he could have realized upon reflection and with the body he had konoha could have pieced together more about Pein's abilities had he chosen to escape. And now let's say that he was hokage and Tsunade never returned to the leaf village. What exactly does anyone do about Chou Shinra Tensei because he can't stop it or even protect the citizens from it like Katsuyu did. His toads could be one shotted again. His sage mode form would be defeated as soon as Deva got serious.

Also let's fastfoward to the war arc assuming the leaf somehow managed to survive Pein's attack. How would Jiraiya get to the battlefield. Once he's there what could he do about Oonoki and Gaara who were out of steam. And what about when Mei was in need of healing. So it would have been A and Jiraiya vs Madara and if you think the 5 kage were easily dispatched of then you should see how fast the A and Jiraiya combo would have been taken out. And that's still dependent on Jiraiya making it to the battlefield. Furthermore, without Tsunade, Sakura would have been killed by Zetsu and the army still wouldn't know how the enemy infiltrated camps. Futhermore, without Tsunade Sasori would have still been a problem, without Tsunade Kakashi wouldn't be in the war. The past hokages wouldn't be on their way to help, it's only because of she made Sasuke better that the past hokage are brought back. Additionally, without the information about Zetsu the jiinchuuriki and the kage would have fought. Him being hokage would have been bad for the village Tsunade was the better choice here.


She still failed. The Hokage's core duty is to defend and protect the village. The only time she actually had to do that, she failed. It was the first time Konoha was levelled, and it occurred on her watch.

Hashirama had to deal with Madara and Kyuubi. Tobirama with the Second Shinobi World War. Hiruzen with the rest of the Second Shinobi World War and the Third Shinobi World War. Minato had to deal with Obito and Kyuubi.

Yes, he's the Child of Prophecy. It still doesn't mean that Tsunade is excused from her blatant failure at doing her job. What did she accomplish as Hokage? It's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious because I can't seem to remember anything as such that stands out.
So exactly what would Minato, Hiruzen, or the second done in such a situation.Chou Shinra Tensei is a 360 attack.
So let's say Minato puts up a barrier the size of the TBB he managed to teleport before. That still leaves about 90% of the attack unstopped. In which case a lot more people die than in Tsunade's result.
Let's say the Third Hokage was Hokage at this point he and all the villagers die he has nothing in his arsenal to stop that.
The second hokage as well couldn't hope to stop that attack with water wall or with a teleportation jutsu unless he has one that covers all angles.
The first, His wood could be blown away and possibly hurt citizens. And due the scale of his larger attacks fighting in the village would have been to dangerous for the village anyways.
Jiraiya would have been killed right there. Of all the hokages and all kages except maybe, MAYBE the kazekages she has the best answer to that jutsu.
Question, what did Hiruzen or Minato do as the hokage?
As hokage Tsunade tried to kill Orochimaru, and actively searched for him, as hokage Root and Danzo were being watched so that she could do away with them and so they wouldn't cause havoc in Konoha, As hokage she strengthened the bonds among allies and even enemy nations, and she also took on an apprentice while being hokage, and she did the hokages job of caring for the village's finances, as hokage she treated the wounds of shinobi such as Sasuke and Kakashi, and pursued Akatsuki.

Now if we want to talk about bad habits for kids, she drinks but there is nothing wrong with drinking, being in college for 5 minutes would tell you that as a lot of what happens at night in college involves alcohol yet they still end up successful, and Tsunade is successful. Furthermore, Jiraiya was a drunkard as well, and a womanizer. Who wanted Naruto to maintain his sexy jutsu while he taught him.

So how exactly was Pain's attack on Konoha Hiruzen's fault?

Minato was going up against Obito and Kyuubi, and he did do most of the work. Tsunade was going up against Pain.

Get off your high horse.
Actually Minato did not do most of the work, by the time Minato got back to Kurama, Kurama had already been pushed out the city he was there for only the very beginning and the very end of Kurama, the rest was handled by the third and the rest of the village. FYI. Tsunade did most of the work involved in saving the citizens of the village. And what exactly would Naruto have done without the information that was relied to him thanks to Tsunade giving him Katsuyu. He would have died.

Now on to the war arc, if Tsunade had not been trying to convince Ay and the other kage the let Naruto through there would be a lot more problems going on right now. In addition, to her role in the actual battle.



Oh really now?



1. Jiraiya was the first candidate for Godaime Hokage. Tsunade was the runner-up.
2. Jiraiya trained Nagato, Minato and Naruto. Tsunade trained Sakura. Now compare the disciples of the two Sannin.



She was drinking on a bridge in public. I'm too lazy to find the panel.
Also, Hiruzen gets his paperwork done. Tsunade sneaks out to a bath and/or tea shop.



It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day, Tsunade didn't really do anything. Now if you really want to go deep, then ask your self. Can Tsunade do what Minato did any better? I think not.



Bro, I don't even like Minato. Besides, Obito + Kurama > Pain.
Now, let's further analyze these claims, Hiruzen for his leisure time which Hokages do have and can take any time they please as long as they do get their job done peeped and played with his crystal ball. Tsunade obviously gets her paperwork done as the village is still operating and missions are being handled.

Actually for the comparison to be valid, look at how far Naruto came with Jiraiya's tutelage and nothing more. He learned summoning, rasengan, and got a bit better at the basic, oh and learned how to walk on water. Under Tsunade's tutelage Sakura, became one of the world's best medics, a master of poisons, with insane strength, and she improved Sakura's fighting style this notwithstanding what ever Sakura is about to show and has already attributed to Tsunade.

Also the point at which Jiraiya left Nagato is where his role in training stopped. It was the point in which a fairly simple suiton was in use. Jiraiya's only real claim to being a great teacher is Minato.

There's also a panel when Jiraiya tells Tsunade to go drinking with him, or when Jiraiya wakes up with a hang over and doesn't even pay attention to where Naruto could be. In fact, during the search for Tsunade arc, Tsunade was far more attentive of Naruto than Jiraiya was. Jiraiya is absolutely the bigger evil if we're worried about children.
 

apsri

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So exactly what would Minato, Hiruzen, or the second done in such a situation.Chou Shinra Tensei is a 360 attack.

So let's say Minato puts up a barrier the size of the TBB he managed to teleport before. That still leaves about 90% of the attack unstopped. In which case a lot more people die than in Tsunade's result.

Let's say the Third Hokage was Hokage at this point he and all the villagers die he has nothing in his arsenal to stop that.
The second hokage as well couldn't hope to stop that attack with water wall or with a teleportation jutsu unless he has one that covers all angles.

The first, His wood could be blown away and possibly hurt citizens. And due the scale of his larger attacks fighting in the village would have been to dangerous for the village anyways.

Jiraiya would have been killed right there. Of all the hokages and all kages except maybe, MAYBE the kazekages she has the best answer to that jutsu.

Question, what did Hiruzen or Minato do as the hokage?

As hokage Tsunade tried to kill Orochimaru, and actively searched for him, as hokage Root and Danzo were being watched so that she could do away with them and so they wouldn't cause havoc in Konoha, As hokage she strengthened the bonds among allies and even enemy nations, and she also took on an apprentice while being hokage, and she did the hokages job of caring for the village's finances, as hokage she treated the wounds of shinobi such as Sasuke and Kakashi, and pursued Akatsuki.

Now if we want to talk about bad habits for kids, she drinks but there is nothing wrong with drinking, being in college for 5 minutes would tell you that as a lot of what happens at night in college involves alcohol yet they still end up successful, and Tsunade is successful. Furthermore, Jiraiya was a drunkard as well, and a womanizer. Who wanted Naruto to maintain his sexy jutsu while he taught him.

Actually Minato did not do most of the work, by the time Minato got back to Kurama, Kurama had already been pushed out the city he was there for only the very beginning and the very end of Kurama, the rest was handled by the third and the rest of the village. FYI. Tsunade did most of the work involved in saving the citizens of the village. And what exactly would Naruto have done without the information that was relied to him thanks to Tsunade giving him Katsuyu. He would have died.

Now on to the war arc, if Tsunade had not been trying to convince Ay and the other kage the let Naruto through there would be a lot more problems going on right now. In addition, to her role in the actual battle.

We have seen nothing from Tobirama, and little from Hiruzen and Minato, so I can't really answer your question, since we only know a few of their abilities. After we see what jutsus they have, I'll get back to you on that. My point, though, is that they would have been fighting Pain from the get go. Especially in Hashirama's case. You really think Pain would have had a chance to get up and perform the Shinra Tensei if Hashirama was Hokage? He'd have been butt raped the moment he attacked the village. Alright, exaggeration, but my point is, he wouldn't have gotten far.

Hiruzen presided over Konoha during the Second and Third Shinobi World Wars, and maintained Konoha as the strongest hidden village in the world. So, yeah. Lots of shit went on during his reign, but, being the longest, it is to be expected as well (not that that excuses him, but the thread's about Tsunade, not Hiruzen).

Minato, well, he only really had one major thing to deal with during his short reign, and he dealt with it pretty well considering the fact that he was already tired from suppressing Kurama while Kushina was giving birth.

Tsunade failed to kill Orochimaru, and she pretty much had no clue where he was... So... As for Danzo, fair enough. On the matter of alliances, though, you're going to have to elaborate. What are you referring to? Suna is the only one that comes to mind, and all she had to do there was say "Oh, so our missing-nin pulled one over on you guys? Yeah, alright, it's cool."

I don't think she managed to accomplish anything with Akatsuki... I may be forgetting something, though. Caring for the village's finances? I don't recall there being any mention of anything like that in the manga. As for healing people, a medic can do that. That's not really a highlight for a Hokage. It's good from the medic-nin point of view (as in, another high in her kunoichi career), but not really a huge accomplishment as a Kage.

Leaving Danzo. So she handled the mess Hiruzen created with Danzo and internal policies well. Fair enough.

As for Kurama, he stopped the TBB. The TBB would have ripped Konoha apart (kind of like Pain did). He was also fighting Obito, and took away his control of Kurama. Probably hoped that that would calm Kurama down, but he just decided to continue because "f*ck it". Anyway, he did do most of the work. He stopped Obito, prevented the TBB from landing, and took him away from the village (Hiruzen pushed him out towards the gates, and Minato took him over near the sea, or whatever), and then sealed it (with Kushina's help). He did most of the work.

As for convincing Ay, fair enough, although I feel B and Naruto had much more of an impact. Still, it's a fair accomplishment. After all, Naruto is the only reason the Shinobi Alliance is still standing today.

Overall, I'd like to say that I don't necessarily think that Tsunade's been a poor leader. I just feel that, out of the 5, she's the worst.
 

Tazzilla88

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We have seen nothing from Tobirama, and little from Hiruzen and Minato, so I can't really answer your question, since we only know a few of their abilities. After we see what jutsus they have, I'll get back to you on that. My point, though, is that they would have been fighting Pain from the get go. Especially in Hashirama's case. You really think Pain would have had a chance to get up and perform the Shinra Tensei if Hashirama was Hokage? He'd have been butt raped the moment he attacked the village. Alright, exaggeration, but my point is, he wouldn't have gotten far.

Hiruzen presided over Konoha during the Second and Third Shinobi World Wars, and maintained Konoha as the strongest hidden village in the world. So, yeah. Lots of shit went on during his reign, but, being the longest, it is to be expected as well (not that that excuses him, but the thread's about Tsunade, not Hiruzen).

Minato, well, he only really had one major thing to deal with during his short reign, and he dealt with it pretty well considering the fact that he was already tired from suppressing Kurama while Kushina was giving birth.

Tsunade failed to kill Orochimaru, and she pretty much had no clue where he was... So... As for Danzo, fair enough. On the matter of alliances, though, you're going to have to elaborate. What are you referring to? Suna is the only one that comes to mind, and all she had to do there was say "Oh, so our missing-nin pulled one over on you guys? Yeah, alright, it's cool."

I don't think she managed to accomplish anything with Akatsuki... I may be forgetting something, though. Caring for the village's finances? I don't recall there being any mention of anything like that in the manga. As for healing people, a medic can do that. That's not really a highlight for a Hokage. It's good from the medic-nin point of view (as in, another high in her kunoichi career), but not really a huge accomplishment as a Kage.

Leaving Danzo. So she handled the mess Hiruzen created with Danzo and internal policies well. Fair enough.

As for Kurama, he stopped the TBB. The TBB would have ripped Konoha apart (kind of like Pain did). He was also fighting Obito, and took away his control of Kurama. Probably hoped that that would calm Kurama down, but he just decided to continue because "f*ck it". Anyway, he did do most of the work. He stopped Obito, prevented the TBB from landing, and took him away from the village (Hiruzen pushed him out towards the gates, and Minato took him over near the sea, or whatever), and then sealed it (with Kushina's help). He did most of the work.

As for convincing Ay, fair enough, although I feel B and Naruto had much more of an impact. Still, it's a fair accomplishment. After all, Naruto is the only reason the Shinobi Alliance is still standing today.

Overall, I'd like to say that I don't necessarily think that Tsunade's been a poor leader. I just feel that, out of the 5, she's the worst.

For the healing bit, if she had not healed Sasuke what would the shinobi are being doing right about now. If she hadn't healed Kakashi, then the village would never have made it past Pein. Naruto wouldn't have gotten the rasenshuriken nothing.

Yes, Orochimaru escaped her grasps, but she looked for him whereas the third legit just let him go, then failed in killing him a second time.

Also we haven't seen much from Tsunade. Jiraiya explicitly states she has jutsus much better than the rasengan. He didn't know about Creation Rebirth or Byakugou and he had already taught Naruto summoning. So then we can reason there is more to her arsenal than we've seen. Sakura also has hinted at this.
Also if you haven't noticed, Tsunade' fighting style is extremely destructive, what exactly would have happened if she engaged in a full scale battle with Pain? Konoha would have been in rubbles, she may have been dead, no one could have healed them and Naruto's TNJ may have been to late.

TBB would have caused some problems for Konoha yes, but recently we learned that TBBs can be moved and redirected. it's likely that someone in the village is a doton user, who should have been capable of playing with the 9 tails feet. Also with Katsuyu being the size of the nine tails, and Tsunade having enough strength to wield Bunta's weapon if you put Monkey King Enma in her hands she probably could have beaten the 9 tails out of the village herself. At which point the real concern is stopping the TBB's. If Enma really does extend to the sizes at which he can be used then simply hitting the 9 tails in the face with such a long staff would redirect the blast. That said the 9 tails would eventually defeat Tsunade for sure. But if she had the resources Minato had at his disposal. Then she could hold him off.

The reason the village's accept missions is to gain money for the village, she kept the missions coming in. Yes while the Third trained the sannin (the major reason Konoha was considered the strongest, that and most villages only have a few strong shinobi from what we've seen) he did little to ensure it was the strongest. Tsunade's policy for 1 medic per team did more for ensuring the leafs strengths than any policy we know Hiruzen to have enacted. In fact, in some translation Tsunade was said to be the reason Konoha won the second great war. And Minato the third. In some translations though it merely says she contributed greatly, which would still mean she is a major part of the reason Konoha won. The second did more for shinobi strength than Hiruzen did by setting up the Academy. And Tsunade created the system of the medical ninja and wrote the rules for it. What did Hiruzen actually add to the leaf?

Also had Hashirama held a full battle in Konoha, Konoha would have been destroyed. That's really not a question. His attacks change landscape. It would have leveled the city.

The old man had the advantage of having Itachi as a "spy" in Akatsuki. (Granted he was the worst spy ever), Even with the knowledge on Akatsuki the old man didn't make any moves on Akatsuki when Tsunade's reign she had been trying to track down Akatsuki and take them out . Something Hiruzen should have been trying to do. He didn't keep track of any information Itachi gave him (if Itachi gave him any at all), he just let Orochimaru do his own thing. And anything unpleasant in the village he didn't do. So again, what did the third do that makes his legacy great. Much of his accomplishment that you named was the accomplishments of the other 4 hokages.

Also in terms of her and relations with the villages.
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and the kages apparently appreciated her return and Kakashi said her presence was was mor effective than his own.
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Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg

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wait till Tobirama gets feats
Hiruzen will be possibly trolled so Tsunade has a chance of not being the weakest Hokage
 
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