-He challenged Roger(Even for that he brought a fleet) -Went to MF killed few fodders and got his a** kicked by Sengoku n Garp(which doesn't makes him Admiral tier) -Telling WB that he is next king(which shows he was inferior to WB) Not only that there was a chapter where his crew said they need time for something big after which Strong world movie came which showed what his powers were.
People thinks he is at Roger or WB lvl as Marines needed 2admiral lvl guys to stop him. If we use that logic then Jack> Roger or WB as he fought 2admirals and 1 VA
Jack launched an ambush on an envoy containing 1 Admiral. A retired one and a VA. Shiki invaded Marineford with the full intent to confront Marines. If the Marines were confident in their ability, it'd have taken one: Garp. However, given the scope of his DF it's apparent a 1v1 would affect the integrity of the island hence dispatching the best marines of their time. The two situations are not the same. It'd be like Akainu sending Fujitora and Kizaru to fight Jack. How is Shiki Pirate vs Rodger Pirate an indictment against him? Was he supposed to leave his forces at home? Unless this was a 1v1 boxing match. Are we ignoring a storm saved the Roger? Ignore that Shiki stayed in prison for a good part of his prime years. Ignore that WB was the youngest of his generation & had been active in the seas while Shiki was rotting in jail.
And what's the difference???
He still fought 2admiral lvl guys n 1 VA
If the Marines were confident in their ability, it'd have taken one: Garp. However, given the scope of his DF it's apparent a 1v1 would affect the integrity of the island hence dispatching the best marines of their time.
You yourself accepted that if 1admiral fought with him then there was a chance that the fight would have unnecessarily destroyed the island more that's why both took him down quickly. That doesn't makes him Admiral lvl.
The two situations are not the same. It'd be like Akainu sending Fujitora and Kizaru to fight Jack.
Garp n Sengoku we're present at MF. When Shiki killed fodders they both came out n confronted him.
Jack also fought Fujitora n Sengoku. Situation is basically same.
Both had prisoners which other party wants. One fought a naval battle other on land.
How is Shiki Pirate vs Rodger Pirate an indictment against him? Was he supposed to leave his forces at home?
That storm only caused an accident which resulted in Shiki's defeat.
Ignore that Shiki stayed in prison for a good part of his prime years. Ignore that WB was the youngest of his generation & had been active in the seas while Shiki was rotting in jail.
Shiki ran away from Impel down after Roger's execution. It was clearly said at the end that his crew wanted few years to execute his plans. That plan was shown in Strong World. If he was strong enough then he would have become an Yonko and continued with his plan like BM, BB and Kaido is doing.
You don't see the difference between an ambush vs full frontal attack? How many times have we seen the element of suprise give an opponent the upper hand? Also Jack fighting Fujitora, Sengoku and Tsuru is as canon as Luffy defeating Shiki.
You yourself accepted that if 1admiral fought with him then there was a chance that the fight would have unnecessarily destroyed the island more that's why both took him down quickly. That doesn't makes him Admiral lvl.
Yes it does. If the gap in strength between prime Shiki and prime Garp was minute, his AOE would be ineffective as he'd be outmatched. Power doesn't lie merely in DF but physical stats and haki. Admirals, Doflamingo, Enel & to small extent Teach/Ace had demonstrated island attacks. Of whom excluding the Admirals none would have been successful in their attempt had they been confronting Admiral-teir character. Lastly, on route to Ed War Sengoku wanted the Shiki case for his own.
Garp n Sengoku we're present at MF. When Shiki killed fodders they both came out n confronted him. Jack also fought Fujitora n Sengoku. Situation is basically same. Both had prisoners which other party wants. One fought a naval battle other on land.
Do you have this panel of Jack fighting Sengoku and Fujitora? If I make the claim Fujitora dropped a meteorite on him or used gravity to crush his ship from the comfort of the starboard, do you have panel refuting the claim? Beside WB, Shiki is the only known character that required multiple Admirals. Garp is a character who contended with Rodger & even he wasn't taking him down like DCJ.
Do u think Luffy will summon all his commanders every time he face a strong opponent???
The Shiki Pirates confronted the Rodger Pirates. Shiki's fleet consisted of 51 divisions much in the same way WB had 16 divisions. These aren't allies but their actual crew, not every pirate has 9 crew members.
That storm only caused an accident which resulted in Shiki's defeat.
Shiki ran away from Impel down after Roger's execution. It was clearly said at the end that his crew wanted few years to execute his plans. That plan was shown in Strong World. If he was strong enough then he would have become an Yonko and continued with his plan like BM, BB and Kaido is doing.
the Golden Age, However, in doing so I got a refresher. Shiki's plan was creating genetically mutated animals/plants and heading into E.B (Marine's bastion of peace) and defiling it before forcing the WG's and surrender.BIG MUM has existed since Roger was around. Blackbeard joined WB and meticulously waited to get Yami, capture Ace, WB death to become the man he is. I don't know about Shank's but at the very least Roger deemed him & his talent worthy of his hat. [FONT="]Shiki's post prison years were spent on amassing wealth for his singular purpose. Futhermore, its later revealed by both Garp/Shiki/Ray more so the first two he's known for his plans. Thus, his decision to not become Yonko isn't for a lack of XYZ but rather disinterest. [/FONT]
I have to disagree with a few positions on your list:
1. Roger
2. Whitebeard
3. Marshal D. Teach
4. Shanks
5. Garp
6. Shiki
7. Big Mom
8. Kaido
9. Akainu
10. Dragon
From what we have seen from the manga so far this would be my best guess of the ranking of characters in their prime so far.
OBVIOUSLY Roger and Whitebeard have not seemed to be surpassed in the manga as the 2 strongest forces. Right now Marshal D Teach should be the 3rd most powerful person with a 2 year timesip to develop and awaken his powers with the Yami and Gura fruits (which have been classified as the top of there respective devil fruit classes). He also holds the position of Yonko, and from what we have seen thus far all yonko have an edge of strength even over the admirals.
I would place Shanks directly under Blackbeard, but over the other Yonko for a couple of reasons. One, I believe (since he doesnt have a DF) that shanks has completely mastered all forms of Haki even to an advanced level. His power is still inane which is why even with one arm he is feared by yonko and marines alike. He was abe to clash with WB and split the sky in 2 showing how intense his haki is. He defeated/stopped kaido on his way to Marineford. He either rivals or is slighty below Mihawk in swordsmanship. Is going to be the LAST yonko to reveal his power and strength and typically in one peiece the later you or your powers are (properly) introduced in the story the more powerful you likely are.
I placed BM over Kaido because we know that she will not be defeated in this arc and will appear later in the series. We also did not get to see the full extent of her power this arc. Yet, Kaido will appear in the next couple of arcs and will be defeated. Because BM is being saved, she follows that patterned that I mentioned with shanks about characters that are reintroduced and powers are fully flushed out later in the series being stronger. Also, I cant currently see what Kaido would have over BM in an actual fight. She displays the same brute strength and durability that Kaido has shown and also can play remove his lifeforce through contact.
Lastly, I place Akainu and Dragon. I dont see Akainu being as strong individually as any of the yonko ( and feats they have shown). I placed Dragon under Akainu obviously because of lack of feats, but his hype and back story actions is enough to make me believe he is currently top 10 in the Manga.
You don't see the difference between an ambush vs full frontal attack? How many times have we seen the element of suprise give an opponent the upper hand? Also Jack fighting Fujitora, Sengoku and Tsuru is as canon as Luffy defeating Shiki.
What are u talking about???
Shiki didn't declared war on Marines.
He simply went there n killed few fodders before he was confronted by Admirals.
Jack also did d same thing and destroyed 2 ships before he was stopped by Admirals.
Yes it does. If the gap in strength between prime Shiki and prime Garp was minute, his AOE would be ineffective as he'd be outmatched. Power doesn't lie merely in DF but physical stats and haki. Admirals, Doflamingo, Enel & to small extent Teach/Ace had demonstrated island attacks. Of whom excluding the Admirals none would have been successful in their attempt had they been confronting Admiral-teir character. Lastly, on route to Ed War Sengoku wanted the Shiki case for his own.
1)Haki wasn't a full proof concept pre ts.
2)Never mentioned that he was out matched by Garp(just because Garp came out to beat his a** doesn't mean they both were at same lvl. Same goes for Sengoku)
3) Ace, Enel weren't Admiral tier
Do you have this panel of Jack fighting Sengoku and Fujitora? If I make the claim Fujitora dropped a meteorite on him or used gravity to crush his ship from the comfort of the starboard, do you have panel refuting the claim?
Yeah right do u have any panel that both Sengoku n Garp fought??? No the only thing u got is 2 admirals standing in front of Shiki.
Beside WB, Shiki is the only known character that required multiple Admirals. Garp is a character who contended with Rodger & even he wasn't taking him down like DCJ.
The Shiki Pirates confronted the Rodger Pirates. Shiki's fleet consisted of 51 divisions much in the same way WB had 16 divisions. These aren't allies but their actual crew, not every pirate has 9 crew members.
Who told u this??? That's not how alliances work. WB's allies came to him when he declared war on Marines. They don't roam with him. This is also the reason how Weevil was able to hunt wb allies but not Marco.
Don't tell Shiki roam with all his 50some ships. Garp said that "Shiki was always the thorough type when it comes to prep. So he was full prepared when he challenged Roger". He needed those ships to match Roger's strength.
Top tier doesn't move with fleets as seen with Kaido, BM and Akainu
Once again are u ignoring that Shiki met with an accident and the war stopped showing he couldn't tank much.
Had to check and yeah Rodger died
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after his capture & escaped
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the Golden Age, However, in doing so I got a refresher. Shiki's plan was creating genetically mutated animals/plants and heading into E.B (Marine's bastion of peace) and defiling it before forcing the WG's and surrender.BIG MUM has existed since Roger was around. Blackbeard joined WB and meticulously waited to get Yami, capture Ace, WB death to become the man he is. I don't know about Shank's but at the very least Roger deemed him & his talent worthy of his hat. [/FONT][FONT="]Shiki's post prison years were spent on amassing wealth for his singular purpose. Futhermore, its later revealed by both Garp/Shiki/Ray more so the first two he's known for his plans. Thus, his decision to not become Yonko isn't for a lack of XYZ but rather disinterest.
So u agree he didn't spend a huge time(only 2 years) in prison???
If I m not wrong his plan was to destroy East blue.
In 2years time all those things didn't happened, his scientist wanted time so he stayed low n massed wealth. If he was strong as u guys think then he would have become a Yonko the moment he came out. He could have accumulated wealth by claiming teritories as Yonkos does but he didn't which shows he was never Yonko lvl guy to start with.
He was introduced and given a plot because of that movie and still everybody disregard it. The movie showed exactly what power he had and at what lvl he was(I believe pre TS Shichibukai lvl).
Shiki didn't declared war on Marines. He simply went there n killed few fodders before he was confronted by Admirals. Jack also did d same thing and destroyed 2 ships before he was stopped by Admirals.
I am either not speaking English or in your fixation to downplay Shiki you've lost it. Where did you get the impression of me saying Shiki declaring war on marines? Let me break it down. I said Full Frontal Assault vs Ambush.
Full Frontal Assault: Direct, hostile movement toward the front of an enemy force (as compared to the flanks or rear of the enemy). By targeting the enemy's front, the attackers are subjecting themselves to the maximum defensive power of the enemy. Ambush: A surprise attack by people lying in wait in a concealed position. To make a surprise attack on (someone) from a concealed position. Marines: Two of the most decorated & Admiral levels of their time were tasked in fighting Shiki. The same isn't the case for Jack & you have yet to show a single panel stating Fujitora AND Sengoku worked together to fight him.
2)Never mentioned that he was out matched by Garp(just because Garp came out to beat his a** doesn't mean they both were at same lvl. Same goes for Sengoku) 3) Ace, Enel weren't Admiral tier
1) I don't understand the purpose of this response. Chapter 0 and Film Z were dropped in December 2009 (Last Quartile Marineford). Right when haki had not only long been conceptualized, seen & in use so much so a TS was triggered. 2) I assumed you'd be of sound mind to remember Garp was called The Hero and was stated to have fought, cornered, nearly killed Rodger in no particular order. A better feat/potrayal than Sengoku currently. Hence if someone who the PK acknowledged wasn't sufficient to easily dispatch of him it follows Shiki was quite strong. An old out of prime Garp halted/deterred a first mate. We've seen a first mate handle a mode like G4. G4 punked a warlord of DD status. Neither G4, Doflamingo, Katakuri require multiple Admirals. 2+2=4-1=3 quick maths. 3) LOL my point exactly. Their DFs were powerful but their physical abilities are not. You missed DD but add him to the list. Case in point FA Akainu sent Fujitora to deal with the cluste**** of Dressorsa: DD resigning, Law allied with SH Luffy. Kong sent out Garp and Sengoku.
Yeah right do u have any panel that both Sengoku n Garp fought??? No the only thing u got is 2 admirals standing in front of Shiki.
Chapter 1 P3 - PK Rodger is introduced and executed. Chapter 223 - Old WB mentioned as WSM and an equal to Roger Chapter 551 P5 - Captured PK Roger tells Garp they've nearly killed each other numerous times. Chapter 564 - 3 Admirals combine to stop Old WB Chapter 565.5 - Garp refusing n[SUP]th[/SUP] promotion to Admiral. Sengoku is introduced as Admiral. 2 Admiral levels stop Shiki.
Now since I've proven my side. Show me this character (beside Shiki/WB) who we have seen so far be stopped by multiple Admirals or which part of my statement is fanfic?
Who told u this??? That's not how alliances work. WB's allies came to him when he declared war on Marines. They don't roam with him. This is also the reason how Weevil was able to hunt wb allies but not Marco.
Don't tell Shiki roam with all his 50some ships. Garp said that "Shiki was always the thorough type when it comes to prep. So he was full prepared when he challenged Roger". He needed those ships to match Roger's strength.
Top tier doesn't move with fleets as seen with Kaido, BM and Akainu
Who is talking about Allied Commanders? I am talking about Division Commanders. WB had 16 (Marco, Jozu, Vista, Ace etc). Shiki has/had 50*. Chapter 434 and SBS revealed WB's Commanders. Shiki's Fleet size was in the Film.
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@Bold:Everything you said there is duck tales and straight fan fiction. Shiki as Pirate was known for commanding a large military fleet as his crews are naturally large. There's not a single mention of calling on allies.
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I don't know where you are getting 50 ships from? All we know is the number of division commanders. WB had 16 and all of them fit on the Moby D**K. Marines are assigned one ship and have responsibility over it - as implied by Tsuru. Shiki isn't a Yonko who had territories that needed to be overseen. He had a big crew and traveled with them. The same way Whitebeard and Shanks did with theirs in 434.
[qiote]Once again are u ignoring that Shiki met with an accident and the war stopped showing he couldn't tank much.[/quote]
Now you've moved the goal post
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Tell me do you know the nature of this accident? You seem to have written his durability off immediately solely based of it. All while not considering it took a sudden freak weather storm against the Pirate King's crew. Rodger & Ray alone is stronger than any combination of current pirates.
So u agree he didn't spend a huge time(only 2 years) in prison???
If I m not wrong his plan was to destroy East blue. In 2years time all those things didn't happened, his scientist wanted time so he stayed low n massed wealth. If he was strong as u guys think then he would have become a Yonko the moment he came out. He could have accumulated wealth by claiming teritories as Yonkos does but he didn't which shows he was never Yonko lvl guy to start with. He was introduced and given a plot because of that movie and still everybody disregard it. The movie showed exactly what power he had and at what lvl he was(I believe pre TS Shichibukai lvl).
Yes. I had the timelines confused. Shiki broke out of prison and was told his plans would take 20 years. You've gone to hint on his so called sense of planning. An infamous escapee from notorious prison with a god complex - talking about teaching the new age rookies about a real pirate. Why would he start claiming territories bringing attention to himself when it was not his intention? His focus was solely on EB. Ok the last point. Let's not muddle the waters. There's two Shiki's here. Prime Shiki who fought two Admirals and the 22 years after Rodger vs Luffy (non canon). The thread is about strongest ever so I'll streer the conversation back to the former. Tell me which pre TS Warlord level character (if there's even such a thing) will need Prime Garp and Sengoku in a fight?
Yeah no. Logically, Bar Logia, Nico Robin should be above WB and garp. She will break every finger in his hand with multiple hands so bad that we would need to do his masturbation for him. Lol lmfaOoooo. Sh*t list.
By the way, your youtube name, you said you'd give? We will see what you got there.
U are still hanging with same thing that it need 2 admirals n stuff to beat him down but the bottom line was they both were there n they wants to quickly wrap up the fight causing less destruction.
Shiki's chapter was solely introduced because of that movie nothing else and do u seriously think he moves with 50some ships??? Even Ace went to different places alone. Cracker didn't brought his army to attack Luffy. This itself shows that Shiki need a combined strength of 50some ships to challenge Roger.
And for the last part we already know guys like BB trying to hunt DF, Kaido making Zoan army, BM forming alliances. See these guys are living there dream when they became a Yonko.
Shiki never had the power to become one.
And I m not down playing Shiki, I simply saying what he demonstrated. The movie showed what Shiki was capable of and he is not going to be introduced again in the manga.
It's even funny u will blame a storm for Shiki's defeat. I guess if that storm didn't come than Shiki would have defeated Roger
He ran away after the accident.
About the Haki yes it wasn't a full proof concept. It was after TS Oda started adding colour n stuff. Earlier very few people showed the use of Haki. Now every second guy is seen with Armament Haki. If Haki was shown like this in MF arc then the war would have been lot different then what we have seen.
