[Spoilers] Tobi's Identity will be revealed in the next weeks

[yetanotheruser]

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I will adamantly keep believing it's him until the big revealment.

I honestly cannot see any potential in the candidates mentioned at this poll.
All candidates have flaws and no one in the entire Narutoverse will significantly enrich the story like how this person does.

 

[Red Swag]

ill still go with fugaku fuk it.

 

[JWSoul]

Re: Tobi's Identity will be revealed next week

Both are 5'9 and 123 lbs. Also check this pic, they have the exact same eyes

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It makes sense on a psychological level as well. Izuna collecting eyes as a by product of his sacrifice or betrayal at Madaras hands, he seems to be slightly obsessed with acquiring them!

To the point of finding Obitos eye's. His apparent hate for his clan is also interesting maybe his sacrifice for the clan went unnoticed and unappreciated and created this hostility he towards them coupled with his brothers frustrations. Another case in point is how Madara actually died in the 1st place especially after unlocking his final eyes! Did Tobi kill him and give his eyes to the boy Nagato? Or did Madara die of old age disease or at the hands of a not so boastful enemy?

Personally i think its looking like this entire Moon eye plan was planned a long time ago by both brothers. How Nagato fits in will be interesting.

Also to add his comments regarding Nagato saying that he gave him the eyes. Could be referring to the fact they were his eyes until his brother Madara took them for himself. That would explain how he gave nagato the eyes / that gift. Its Izuna i reckon be surprised if its someone else. His knowledge of the Hidden Leaf during the attack on the village is a query? How did he know where and what was happening and the best way to deal with possible oponents! Including the killing of 10+ Anbo! Perhaps an insider in the leaf Danzo, making a grave mistake an playing his cards wrong! Orochimaru? aiding the attack and gathering information through his extended knowledge of the leaf or another insider Uchia etc.

 

[Edge]

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I will adamantly keep believing it's him until the big revealment.

I honestly cannot see any potential in the candidates mentioned at this poll.
All candidates have flaws and no one in the entire Narutoverse will significantly enrich the story like how this person does.

You know nothing about him or any of the other candidates. Instead of fantasizing fanfiction, try to look at things objectively.

 

[yetanotheruser]

You know nothing about him or any of the other candidates. Instead of fantasizing fanfiction, try to look at things objectively.

Yes, I do. Izuna, Obito, Kagami etc. are just regular characters and nothing special, but the elder son isn't.

Due his popularity, let's take Izuna for instance:

Did he have large impact on humans? No.
Does he have an evil character? No.
Was his dead confirmed? Yes.
Is he somewhat interesting? No.
Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.
Does he fit into the plot? No.
Does he fit being the final villain? No.
Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)
Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.
Would anyone ever care who the hell Izuna is? No, except Madara.
<insert more things here>


And now you stop denying facts. Izuna is just a random, unimportant Uchiha that Kishi threw track to confuse his readers. Same applies to Kagami. The most logical person outta there is definitely the elder son.

Believe it or not. I am convinced it is the elder son.

 

[looking 4 name]

tobi is madara

and yes i read the manga

 

[Trollasaur]

Re: Tobi's Identity will be revealed next week

Both are 5'9 and 123 lbs. Also check this pic, they have the exact same eyes

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Yeah if Tobi were Izuna Tobi would b an old man right? Then why whould Tobi still be the exact height & weight after 50 years plus?

 

[Edge]

Yes, I do. Izuna, Obito, Kagami etc. are just regular characters and nothing special, but the elder son isn't.

Due his popularity, let's take Izuna for instance:

Did he have large impact on humans? No.
Does he have an evil character? No.
Was his dead confirmed? Yes.
Is he somewhat interesting? No.
Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.
Does he fit into the plot? No.
Does he fit being the final villain? No.
Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)
Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.
Would anyone ever care who the hell Izuna is? No, except Madara.
<insert more things here>


And now you stop denying facts. Izuna is just a random, unimportant Uchiha that Kishi threw track to confuse his readers. Same applies to Kagami. The most logical person outta there is definitely the elder son.

Believe it or not. I am convinced it is the elder son.

No you don't, and at this point I'm doubting whether you even know what objective means.

Since you bring up Izuna, let's look at all your points.


Did he have large impact on humans?
Humans? If you mean characters in the current story, of course. His eyes birthed Madara's power and hence, Nagato's power. None of this would be happening if it weren't for him.

Does he have an evil character?
You don't know that he doesn't or doesn't. It all depends on whether you believe his eyes were taken or given.

Was his dead confirmed?

Nope. Show me where it was confirmed.

Is he somewhat interesting?

No, I guess the brother of Uchiha Madara who was on par in terms of power and one of the first in history to awaken his Mangekyou Sharingan isn't very interesting compared to the Sage's first son.

Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.

To you. Please look up the word Objective.

Does he fit into the plot? No.

Do you even read this manga?

Does he fit being the final villain? No.

He has a higher chance for being Tobi than the candidate you're backing. Hell, EVEN OBITO has a higher chance.

Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)

Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.

Your last points I won't even address.

It's clear to me you don't read this manga for what it's worth to make an accurate theory. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the elder son, seems to me you're just making a subjective conclusion based on nothing but your own fantasy about the character.

 

[yetanotheruser]

.

Did he have large impact on humans?
Humans? If you mean characters in the current story, of course. His eyes birthed Madara's power and hence, Nagato's power. None of this would be happening if it weren't for him.

So what? So you are telling me that this is all he has done? If yes, Izuna doesn't deserve to be Tobi.

Does he have an evil character?
You don't know that he doesn't or doesn't. It all depends on whether you believe his eyes were taken or given.

It doesn't matter if his eyes were taken or given. This doesn't justify putting every human into a infinite genjutsu. And it doesn't matter if Madara is his brother or not.

Tobi wants peace by force. This mirrors the views of the elder son (power = peace). He is convinced that his father was wrong when choosing the younger son as his successor. He has seen that he was wrong. But actually, the person that the SO6P was waiting for was Naruto.

There is a potential parallel of the Hashirama vs Madara fight: The battle of both sons.
That is why Tobi hates Hashirama. He can see in him his younger brother.
That is currently continuing at the Tobi vs Naruto battle. At the end, the curse of hatred must be broken where it originated: From the elder son.

Was his dead confirmed?

Nope. Show me where it was confirmed.

Madara stated it by himself.
-->

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Yes, it was _MADARA_. So Madara doesn't even know about his own brother?
Madara knows he died. He is dead. End.

Is he somewhat interesting?

No, I guess the brother of Uchiha Madara who was on par in terms of power and one of the first in history to awaken his Mangekyou Sharingan isn't very interesting compared to the Sage's first son.

Okay.

Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.

To you. Please look up the word Objective.

Yes, to me. There is much more mystery behind Tobi than just him being Izuna..
Why is Kishi waiting for the revealment then?
For everyone to say: "Oh, he was just Izuna all the time." ?
Isn't nearly every major event in the Narutoverse linked to Tobi? Izuna simply does not fit.

If Tobi is just a "pawn" of Madara, there is nothing to wait for. Kishi developed Tobi to be a mysterious character and everyone has high expectations in this man.

Does he fit into the plot? No.

Do you even read this manga?

Yes, I do. Keep being fooled by Kishimoto. That is all he wants.

Does he fit being the final villain? No.

He has a higher chance for being Tobi than the candidate you're backing. Hell, EVEN OBITO has a higher chance.

No. Izuna lacks skills, motivation and knowledge. And you know it.

Let me tell you more:

The elder son leaves much space for character development, unlike Izuna.
Come on... He attacked his brother after his father died. He HATED him. I am sure he would do anything to survive.

Tobi is talking like he even knew the SO6P personally. Even Kakashi doesn't believe the sage existed or not. Nobody actually does, but Tobi is talking about something that he witnessed.
He even said how the elder son felt when the younger was chosen. Izuna, Obito, Kagami and the Ramen Guy simply can't know this.

Finally, Tobi will most likely talk about his past when he is revealed. Why should we care about Izuna's past? We also still have to see a flashback of the SO6P and his sons. Tobi will tell us more about it. This is something that Izuna can't know about.

As already said, Tobi stated that "Tobi" was his old name. Was Izunas old name Tobi? NO.
We don't know the names of the sons.

 

[Edge]

.

So what? So you are telling me that this is all he has done? If yes, Izuna doesn't deserve to be Tobi.



It doesn't matter if his eyes were taken or given. This doesn't justify putting every human into a infinite genjutsu. And it doesn't matter if Madara is his brother or not.

Tobi wants peace by force. This mirrors the views of the elder son (power = peace). He is convinced that his father was wrong when choosing the younger son as his successor. He has seen that he was wrong. But actually, the person that the SO6P was waiting for was Naruto.

There is a potential parallel of the Hashirama vs Madara fight: The battle of both sons.
That is why Tobi hates Hashirama. He can see in him his younger brother.
That is currently continuing at the Tobi vs Naruto battle. At the end, the curse of hatred must be broken where it originated: From the elder son.



Madara stated it by himself.
-->

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Yes, it was _MADARA_. So Madara doesn't even know about his own brother?
Madara knows he died. He is dead. End.



Okay.



Yes, to me. There is much more mystery behind Tobi than just him being Izuna..
Why is Kishi waiting for the revealment then?
For everyone to say: "Oh, he was just Izuna all the time." ?
Isn't nearly every major event in the Narutoverse linked to Tobi? Izuna simply does not fit.

If Tobi is just a "pawn" of Madara, there is nothing to wait for. Kishi developed Tobi to be a mysterious character and everyone has expectations in this man.



Yes, I do. Keep being fooled by Kishimoto. That is all he wants.



No. Izuna lacks skills, motivation and knowledge. And you know it.

Let me tell you more:

The elder son leaves much space for character development, unlike Izuna.
Come on... He attacked his brother after his father died. He HATED him. I am sure he would do anything to survive.

Tobi is talking like he even knew the SO6P personally. Even Kakashi doesn't believe the sage existed or not. Nobody actually does, but Tobi is talking about something that he witnessed.

Finally, Tobi will most likely talk about his past when he is revealed. Why should we care about Izuna's past? We also still have to see a flashback of the SO6P and his sons. Tobi will tell us more about it. This is something that Izuna can't know about.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you when you can't even step outside your own comfort zone and look at objective facts in the manga.
For example, we know nothing about the elder son's personalities or his motives. It's the same as any other theory, except even worse because there are a lot more plot holes that you can't seem to realize.

Let's discuss again in the next few weeks.

 

[Selisa957]

~*sigh*~ I truly gave up after countless times of debates with my friends.....a part of me is thinking that Kishimoto is gonna pull a fast one on us and Tobi is some one completely different...but if not, then this will be truly interesting.

 

[yetanotheruser]

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you when you can't even step outside your own comfort zone and look at objective facts in the manga.
For example, we know nothing about the elder son's personalities or his motives. It's the same as any other theory, except even worse because there are a lot more plot holes that you can't seem to realize.

Let's discuss again in the next few weeks.

Is this all you have to say? Denying facts by telling me that I lack objectiveness?

Then don't argue with me. I am providing you good reasons why it could be him and you are just ignoring them. Okay, continue doing this.

We will see that he is definitely not Izuna. This manga isn't about Izuna and his brother.
It is about the curse of hatred vs will of fire.

 

[Edge]

Is this all you have to say? Denying facts by telling me that I lack objectiveness?

Then don't argue with me. I am providing you good reasons why it could be him and you are just ignoring them. Okay, continue doing this.

We will see that he is definitely not Izuna. This manga isn't about Izuna and his brother.
It is about the curse of hatred vs will of fire.

I guess you can't comprehend what I'm trying to say. I'm not arguing with you because there isn't anything to argue. You haven't provided any facts at all, just your own theories about why Izuna is no good and the sage's son is.

For example, tell me that the Sage's Son wanting to survive no matter what and what Kishimoto wants his readers to think are facts you obtained from the manga. They aren't. You have no knowledge about either one of those points.

I could post rebuttal's all day long but it wouldn't change the way you think. Let's talk again in a few weeks.

 

[13TailsJinjuriki]

I'm only saying Izuna as a guess more than a theory. I just know it's not Obito like half you retards think (because Tobi has Obito's eye).

 

[shk1020]

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I will adamantly keep believing it's him until the big revealment.

I honestly cannot see any potential in the candidates mentioned at this poll.
All candidates have flaws and no one in the entire Narutoverse will significantly enrich the story like how this person does.

who is this supposed to be? the So6P?

I agree that it will most likely happen in chapter 600. And I also agree that the reaction here is far more interesting to see than who he really is. I wonder if we will beat the online records again on that day.

My bet lies somewhere between Izuna and Zetsu clone. Even after last chapter, I still don`t think at all that it`s Obito.

cant be obito... i mean of all things, why would you expect obito to help madara, and why would madara of ALL the uchiha's that he has met in the past ask obito to be his saviour (lol). so i agree with you here.

It makes sense on a psychological level as well. Izuna collecting eyes as a by product of his sacrifice or betrayal at Madaras hands, he seems to be slightly obsessed with acquiring them!

To the point of finding Obitos eye's. His apparent hate for his clan is also interesting maybe his sacrifice for the clan went unnoticed and unappreciated and created this hostility he towards them coupled with his brothers frustrations. Another case in point is how Madara actually died in the 1st place especially after unlocking his final eyes! Did Tobi kill him and give his eyes to the boy Nagato? Or did Madara die of old age disease or at the hands of a not so boastful enemy?

Personally i think its looking like this entire Moon eye plan was planned a long time ago by both brothers. How Nagato fits in will be interesting.

Also to add his comments regarding Nagato saying that he gave him the eyes. Could be referring to the fact they were his eyes until his brother Madara took them for himself. That would explain how he gave nagato the eyes / that gift. Its Izuna i reckon be surprised if its someone else. His knowledge of the Hidden Leaf during the attack on the village is a query? How did he know where and what was happening and the best way to deal with possible oponents! Including the killing of 10+ Anbo! Perhaps an insider in the leaf Danzo, making a grave mistake an playing his cards wrong! Orochimaru? aiding the attack and gathering information through his extended knowledge of the leaf or another insider Uchia etc.

have to compliment this explanation. this solidifies my theory (more as a guess ofc) that tobi is izuna. if madara and izuna worked closely for their whole life - while madara was alive - then he would be the one most likely to revive him.

of course, do we know who helped train madara / izuna? i know they trained with each other, but maybe someone was helping them. isnt it also possible that maybe madara/izuna's father could be tobi?

 

[yetanotheruser]

@shk1020: That's the

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.

 

[shk1020]

i found an interesting convo (debate) happening in this tread, so i followed it pretty far back.

No you don't, and at this point I'm doubting whether you even know what objective means.

Since you bring up Izuna, let's look at all your points.


Did he have large impact on humans?
Humans? If you mean characters in the current story, of course. His eyes birthed Madara's power and hence, Nagato's power. None of this would be happening if it weren't for him.

Does he have an evil character?
You don't know that he doesn't or doesn't. It all depends on whether you believe his eyes were taken or given.

Was his dead confirmed?

Nope. Show me where it was confirmed.

Is he somewhat interesting?

No, I guess the brother of Uchiha Madara who was on par in terms of power and one of the first in history to awaken his Mangekyou Sharingan isn't very interesting compared to the Sage's first son.

Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.

To you. Please look up the word Objective.

Does he fit into the plot? No.

Do you even read this manga?

Does he fit being the final villain? No.

He has a higher chance for being Tobi than the candidate you're backing. Hell, EVEN OBITO has a higher chance.

Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)

Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.

Your last points I won't even address.

It's clear to me you don't read this manga for what it's worth to make an accurate theory. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the elder son, seems to me you're just making a subjective conclusion based on nothing but your own fantasy about the character.

=================================
i agree with everything in this reply by edge back to yetanotheruser (YAU). good job edge. as he did, i will also reply to your questions YAU.

Did he have large impact on humans? No.
depends on what you refer to as a large impact. the sage's son didnt have a big impact either (as far as we know).

Does he have an evil character? No.
as stated by edge, we dont have enough info to go one way or another. regardless, what does this have to do with tobi? for all we know, tobi isnt doing anything "evil" (looking at it from his point of view), he is just stopping people from having dreams in order to achieve peace. all he needs is 10 individuals to "save" the world - in his eyes.

Was his dead confirmed? Yes.
edge, YAU has a point here...

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(cant find the manga page at the moment). so, yes his death was shown...but im not sure it confirms anything. this was the only thing holding me back thinking tobi = izuna. but with the edo tensei (and the ability to release it as shown by madara in chapter 592), its quite possible izuna was revived by madara himself before he died. this also gives a reason to how madara was able to counter edo-tensei himself. maybe thats why tobi never worried too much about kabuto releasing madara against tobi because he knew madara would be able to free himself.

Is he somewhat interesting? No.
why not? as edge said, he was able to fight on par with madara for years. what dont you like about him vs the sage's son? we have have limited to no information on either of them. so you cant dislike someone without knowing them - unless you are a person who judges people based on looks.

Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.
depends on the story. it doesnt really matter who it turns out to be as long as they have a reasonable explanation of how things worked out.

Does he fit into the plot? No.
why not? for now, anyone can fit the story and no one can. again, it depends on the back story.

Does he fit being the final villain? No.
i doubt the final villain will be tobi. imo, it will end up being madara. or worse, like in some manga, it could a super combo villain - tobi + madara + oro. they transform into one being called: madorobi. yes its a little crazy, but in many anime/manga, we see heros or villains combine to make a superhero or supervillain.

(btw, im still hoping sasuke and naruto fight together xD)

Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
edge said it best, please read below. (minus the sarcasm).

...the brother of Uchiha Madara who was on par in terms of power and one of the first in history to awaken his Mangekyou Sharingan isn't very interesting compared to the Sage's first son.

Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)
this is probably the worst question in this group. it makes you look desperate lol. this is probably the least convincing arguments that tobi cant be izuna - and if it turns out to be true (which i hope it doesnt) - it even proves that tobi cant be the son of the sage.

Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.
in naruto wiki, it says izuna/madara existed about 80yrs ago. (i didnt feel like doing the math to guess their age). so i would say that it is enough time for izuna to gain knowledge and skill. first off, he already has MS and possibly had the rinnegan. if kakashi is able to copy a 1000+ jutsus with just a normal sharingan and be one of the smartest shinobi's in konoha (in his 30 years), then im sure izuna can also do the same in twice that long.

Would anyone ever care who the hell Izuna is? No, except Madara.
finally, you proved everything here yourself. the main reason tobi exists - to me at least - was to revive madara. yes the moon's eye plan is there, but madara and tobi had planned this in the past. everytime tobi referred to the moon's eye plan, he called it something along the lines of: "MY PLAN...UCHIHA MADARA'S PLAN". so we all should care if madara cared about tobi/izuna.

And now you stop denying facts. Izuna is just a random, unimportant Uchiha that Kishi threw track to confuse his readers. Same applies to Kagami. The most logical person outta there is definitely the elder son.
what are facts? everyone can get facts to "prove" their point is correct. based on everything we know, it could still be anyone. i dont know why people say its kagami other than his relationship with danzou - i guess they were on the same team in the past? and to add what you said, the name "TOBI" could also be something kishi threw in the story to confuse readers between tobi and obito as you might be thinking...lol.


Believe it or not. I am convinced it is the elder son.
ok, but have you shown any facts? maybe i havent gone far enough back to read your posts and your proof. if you can link it to me, then i'd love to read it. but from what ive read in this post, you are just denying why it cant be izuna based on one fact (the death picture) and a whole lot of speculation.


long post

 

[naruto2218]

From a plot standpoint, Izuna is the most sound choice. Casual fans wouldn't have any idea who Kagami is and let's face it, the manga industry is harsh and Kishi needs as high ratings as he can get. Fugaku is completely confirmed dead by Itachi. Obito could theoretically be him, but I think that would be atrocious writing. I thought it was the sage of the six path's older son for awhile myself, but I think Izuna is by far the easiest to fit into the story plotwise because of what was stated earlier.

 

[shk1020]

From a plot standpoint, Izuna is the most sound choice. Casual fans wouldn't have any idea who Kagami is and let's face it, the manga industry is harsh and Kishi needs as high ratings as he can get. Fugaku is completely confirmed dead by Itachi. Obito could theoretically be him, but I think that would be atrocious writing. I thought it was the sage of the six path's older son for awhile myself, but I think Izuna is by far the easiest to fit into the story plotwise because of what was stated earlier.

why did you think it was the older son of so6p before?

 

[yetanotheruser]

i found an interesting convo (debate) happening in this tread, so i followed it pretty far back.



=================================
i agree with everything in this reply by edge back to yetanotheruser (YAU). good job edge. as he did, i will also reply to your questions YAU.

Did he have large impact on humans? No.
depends on what you refer to as a large impact. the sage's son didnt have a big impact either (as far as we know).

Lets see.. He was pulling the strings all the time and manipulated many people, yes, he did have large impact.

Does he have an evil character? No.
as stated by edge, we dont have enough info to go one way or another. regardless, what does this have to do with tobi? for all we know, tobi isnt doing anything "evil" (looking at it from his point of view), he is just stopping people from having dreams in order to achieve peace. all he needs is 10 individuals to "save" the world - in his eyes.

Yes. I already mentioned before that this personality rather fits to the elder son than Izuna. He elder son believed that peace could be achieved through power and strength. Tobi also does thinks this way.

Was his dead confirmed? Yes.
edge, YAU has a point here...

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(cant find the manga page at the moment). so, yes his death was shown...but im not sure it confirms anything. this was the only thing holding me back thinking tobi = izuna. but with the edo tensei (and the ability to release it as shown by madara in chapter 592), its quite possible izuna was revived by madara himself before he died. this also gives a reason to how madara was able to counter edo-tensei himself. maybe thats why tobi never worried too much about kabuto releasing madara against tobi because he knew madara would be able to free himself.

If Madara says he is dead, he is dead. There is nothing to discuss about.

Is he somewhat interesting? No.
why not? as edge said, he was able to fight on par with madara for years. what dont you like about him vs the sage's son? we have have limited to no information on either of them. so you cant dislike someone without knowing them - unless you are a person who judges people based on looks.

Let's see... the greatest mystery in this manga is just a random Uchiha whose only job was to give his eyes to his brother. Nice story writing... I am impressed...

Was it worth waiting years just for Izuna? No.
depends on the story. it doesnt really matter who it turns out to be as long as they have a reasonable explanation of how things worked out.

See previous point

Does he fit into the plot? No.
why not? for now, anyone can fit the story and no one can. again, it depends on the back story.

Okay, he might actually fit. But I doubt it's him.

Does he fit being the final villain? No.
i doubt the final villain will be tobi. imo, it will end up being madara. or worse, like in some manga, it could a super combo villain - tobi + madara + oro. they transform into one being called: madorobi. yes its a little crazy, but in many anime/manga, we see heros or villains combine to make a superhero or supervillain.

(btw, im still hoping sasuke and naruto fight together xD)

He is the final villain. I am sure he is.

Does he have something special that differs him from other people? No.
edge said it best, please read below. (minus the sarcasm).


Was his

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Tobi? No. (Unless you can change names...)
this is probably the worst question in this group. it makes you look desperate lol. this is probably the least convincing arguments that tobi cant be izuna - and if it turns out to be true (which i hope it doesnt) - it even proves that tobi cant be the son of the sage.

No. This is actually a good question.

Could he ever achieve this amount of skill and knowledge like Tobi got? No.
in naruto wiki, it says izuna/madara existed about 80yrs ago. (i didnt feel like doing the math to guess their age). so i would say that it is enough time for izuna to gain knowledge and skill. first off, he already has MS and possibly had the rinnegan. if kakashi is able to copy a 1000+ jutsus with just a normal sharingan and be one of the smartest shinobi's in konoha (in his 30 years), then im sure izuna can also do the same in twice that long.

So? How could he know about SO6P, his sons, the bijuus etc. etc. ? He DOES lack knowledge, also skill. Tobi seems to have great mastery over Sharingan. Controlling Kyuubi using standard Sharingan is imho not something that Izuna could be able to do.

Would anyone ever care who the hell Izuna is? No, except Madara.
finally, you proved everything here yourself. the main reason tobi exists - to me at least - was to revive madara. yes the moon's eye plan is there, but madara and tobi had planned this in the past. everytime tobi referred to the moon's eye plan, he called it something along the lines of: "MY PLAN...UCHIHA MADARA'S PLAN". so we all should care if madara cared about tobi/izuna.

Oh... this is all. Just reviving Madara. So Tobi controlled that many people, founded Akatuski, exterminated the Uchiha clan, etc. etc.. just to revive his brother?

And now you stop denying facts. Izuna is just a random, unimportant Uchiha that Kishi threw track to confuse his readers. Same applies to Kagami. The most logical person outta there is definitely the elder son.
what are facts? everyone can get facts to "prove" their point is correct. based on everything we know, it could still be anyone. i dont know why people say its kagami other than his relationship with danzou - i guess they were on the same team in the past? and to add what you said, the name "TOBI" could also be something kishi threw in the story to confuse readers between tobi and obito as you might be thinking...lol.




Believe it or not. I am convinced it is the elder son.
ok, but have you shown any facts? maybe i havent gone far enough back to read your posts and your proof. if you can link it to me, then i'd love to read it. but from what ive read in this post, you are just denying why it cant be izuna based on one fact (the death picture) and a whole lot of speculation.

I did write some more stuff why I think its him
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long post

Continue reading here (I didn't write this, but it is interesting and well explained)
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