Theres much more for namikaze clan?

HowDidIGetPrem

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It's a major plothole. Kishi just wanted Naruto to be the Rikudou Sennin (before there was Kaguya, Hagoromo and Hamura).

I mean, Tsunade is alive still. Orochimaru also had tons of Hashirama cells.
Kabuto perfected the body.

If Orochimaru can create a swarm of Shin Uchiha, Senjus can be revived too.
Could be that the incarnates actually prioritize attaching themselves to the descendant with the highest chakra. Naruto was born with Kushina's seal leaking and had Kurama sealed in him not long after. Look at Hashirama. I doubt Ashura's chakra itself played a large role in why Hashirama was elevated to being a leader. Ashura's chakra also seems to be a nonfactor to Naruto's standing. Same with Madara and Sasuke.

@salamander uchiha
so the hands aren't just for holding.
 

wanderingcactus

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Could be that the incarnates actually prioritize attaching themselves to the descendant with the highest chakra. Naruto was born with Kushina's seal leaking and had Kurama sealed in him not long after. Look at Hashirama. I doubt Ashura's chakra itself played a large role in why Hashirama was elevated to being a leader. Ashura's chakra also seems to be a nonfactor to Naruto's standing. Same with Madara and Sasuke.
It makes sense. Also there is a nature for their cycles. The cycle does not repeat until both transmigrants die. One is Indra cycles again, then Asura pursues.

Although that could just mere speculation since I don't quite remember who is older, Madara or Hashirama.

But yes, it makes sense that Asura would go for the largest chakra or at the very least largest Yang affinity chakra.
 

salamander uchiha

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So what you're saying is you talked out of your ass?
Who's talking to you dense boi, inability to concentrate which produces incompetence or is it the other way round? I can't do my work because I can't concentrate, I guess that makes me competent:lmao: You're not the brightest spark are you?

Anyway, @HowDidIGetPrem will judge you're Hamura ancestor claim, bring your manga evidence, databook or movie quotes evidence (head canon). Get to it.
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.
@salamander uchiha
so the hands aren't just for holding.
Sorry, you lost me?

If you mean for Naruto, then no. He pretty much has major issues and uses clones to make up the short fall. He overcomes it later on for plot reasons, but it's not really important
 
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wanderingcactus

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You're not the brightest spark are you?

can't concentrate brings incompetency? LMAOO what? ineffective maybe. Not incompetence.

I bet you don't even know that big word. Dumb people should stick to dumb things.

I was liking your commitment to that. Don't use big words you don't know the use of.

Be a good boi and be dumb else where.

Still waiting on your scans though. WHERE THEY AT?
 

salamander uchiha

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can't concentrate brings incompetency? LMAOO what? ineffective maybe. Not incompetence.

I bet you don't even know that big word. Dumb people should stick to dumb things.

I was liking your commitment to that. Don't use big words you don't know the use of.

Be a good boi and be dumb else where.

Still waiting on your scans though. WHERE THEY AT?
A simple question for a simple dumb ass.

You can't concentrate at your job, you can't complete your tasks like others, are you incompetent.

Anyway, where's your evidence for the Uzumaki being Hamura descendants. The manga scans, databook scans or movie statements. @HowDidIGetPrem will be the independent judge of how valid it (your head canon) is.


Come one get to it, we're all eagerly waiting
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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I don't think the Uzumakis are descedents of Hamura. The reasoning is really simple. The Senju and Uzumaki are related, but so are the Hyugas. The question is do the characters in-universe know this? To me, it seems that they don't. If Kushina said Uzumakis are related to Senjus, it means their relations begin somewhere lower on the treeline. Somewhere traceable. Likeliest through the Senju clan. Unless Kushina knows that Hyugas are related to Senju, then her claim 100% means they're not Hamura's decedents.
 
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wanderingcactus

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You can't concentrate at your job, you can't complete your tasks like others, are you incompetent.

BIG OOOF. Wide speculation.
Where's your manga scans, databook, and movie reference on that?

here's mine stating Naruto's competencies.

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How does it feel to be dumb?


Are you aware of your own stupidity? Or are you too stupid to perceive that?

KEEP RUNNING BOI! YOU GOT NOTHING BUT FANFiCS.
yeah, keep saying things like that.
YOU STILL HAVENT PROVED YOUR POINTS! HAHAHA


Anyway, where's your evidence for the Uzumaki being Hamura descendants.

I've moved any off tangent arguments to the other thread.

Go get neg diffed there.
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If Kushina said Uzumakis are related to Senjus, it means their relations begin somewhere lower on the treeline. Somewhere traceable. Likeliest through the Senju clan. Unless Kushina knows that Hyugas are related to Senju, then her claim 100% means they're not Hamura's decedents.

I doubt that that is the case. Reason being Uchiha and Senju aren't known direct relatives neither.

Also, there was no point in mentioning the other 2 clans in her statement because they are irrelevant to the topic.

The fact that the Uzumakis were never in the Hidden Village of Leaf states that they aren't that close (as in a branch of Senjus).
For the most part, they kept close ties with one another and marrying off their children.

Much like the case with Mito and Hashirama and Minato (citizen of the leaf since Uchiha and Senju united with the other surrounding clans) and Kushina.

The fact that Konoha pay tribute to the Uzumaki by embedding their crest into their uniform shows Senju's friendship with the Uzumakis.

But by no means that Senjus are superior to Uzumakis. In fact, they seem to be regarded as on equal terms (like Senjus are with the Uchihas and Hyugas).

If they truly are Senju's descendants, then there's no reasons for currying favors. There is no reason for the tightnit friendship and deep respect as they are one of the same clan.

They are on equal footing and therefore not a direct clan member but rather a higher lineage relation (ergo, not Asura's lineage but Hagoromo's and Hamura's)

There are no explicit evidence to stand that the Uzumakis ARE Senju's clan, much like the claim that they are of Hamura's.

Although there are way too many parallels, similarities and coincidences that points to the latter being true than the former.


The only evidence to make the former true are these and they are weak reasonings:
Kushina's statement of "distant blood relative" that can be taken as such.
Nagato's lineage is also negligible as well as he is an individual and not the clan itself.


The strongest argument can be made is the transmigrant.
As per the transmigrant, Ninshu can be applied there.


Kindly move this to the other section though.

This guy loves to just hop around the subject like a redirecting dumbass that he is.

Keep running boy, we still demand you to defend your stance.
 
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salamander uchiha

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BIG OOOF. Wide speculation.
Where's your manga scans, databook, and movie reference on that?

here's mine stating Naruto's competencies.

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How does it feel to be dumb?


Are you aware of your own stupidity? Or are you too stupid to perceive that?
Imagine being this dense, and not addressing the actual argument. Deflecting and jumping around because you can't provide manga scans. Even going to war arc, where Kurama helps Naruto, oh and he's been a Jin his whole life as Kurama tells you:lmao:

It's sad to say, but you can't read and can't clearly address a basic argument. I'll ask you one more time if you can't get your work done are you incompetent or not?

If you cant perform a rasengan without the aid of a clone, while others (Kakashi, Jiraiya and Minato) can, what are you?

If you can answer this I may give you air time or count me out at this point, dumb ass.
 

wanderingcactus

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Imagine being this dense, and not addressing the actual argument. Deflecting and jumping around because you can't provide manga scans
stop describing yourself.

Come on man.. That's my job.

Where them scans at bro?

You keep asking me to do stuff and you haven't done anything to prove your point.

I've been proving my point and you haven't done anything..

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KEEP DENYING FACTS BRO
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@minamoto

Help your friend out. He's gone full stupid again XDD

He is going for the full logic fallacy at this point.

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>Nagato = Senju blood thereby making Uzumaki Clan as Senju's descendants XDDDD

>Asking me for proof but only acknowledge direct and explicit statements, but wholeheartedly acknowledge Nagato being Senju is proof that Uzumaki is Senju


XDDD


>Cannot provided proof so asks me to defend my case by providing proof
>Gets provided anyways
>Backtracks like a dumbass
>Gets called out
>Redirects and feigns ignorance

XXDDDDD

>looks for other people's comments to see what he can use for his case

XDDD

>gets called out on it
>new guy defends my case

XDD

>redirects and goes for "he claims Uzumaki's are Hamura's not Senju's"

XDDD
 
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salamander uchiha

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stop describing yourself.

Come on man.. That's my job.

Where them scans at bro?

You keep asking me to do stuff and you haven't done anything to prove your point.

I've been proving my point and you haven't done anything..

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KEEP DENYING FACTS BRO
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@minamoto

Help your friend out. He's gone full stupid again XDD

He is going for the full logic fallacy at this point.

You must be registered for see images

Little man has learnt a big word (fallacies), yet doesn't even know what a fallacy is.

You have yet to address my questions little man, get to it. At this point, deflecting and running away isn't going to help you.

Even running to @minamoto san, like a truly pathetic troll. All so you can avoid answering basic questions.

I'll ask you the questions once again, let's see if you can answer them little man

If you cant perform a rasengan without the aid of a clone, while others (Kakashi, Jiraiya and Minato) can, what are you?

If you can answer this I may give you air time or count me out at this point, dumb ass.
 

wanderingcactus

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Little man has learnt a big word (fallacies), yet doesn't even know what a fallacy is.

You have yet to address my questions little man, get to it. At this point, deflecting and running away isn't going to help you.

Even running to @minamoto san, like a truly pathetic troll. All so you can avoid answering basic questions.

I'll ask you the questions once again, let's see if you can answer them little man

If you cant perform a rasengan without the aid of a clone, while others (Kakashi, Jiraiya and Minato) can, what are you?

If you can answer this I may give you air time or count me out at this point, dumb ass.

>Nagato = Senju blood thereby making Uzumaki Clan as Senju's descendants XDDDD
>Asking me for proof
>gets proof
>only acknowledge direct and explicit statements
>but wholeheartedly acknowledge Nagato being Senju is proof that Uzumaki is Senju
>Cannot provide proof so asks me to defend my case by providing proof
>Gets provided anyways
>Backtracks like a dumbass
>Gets called out
>Redirects and feigns ignorance
>looks for other people's comments to see what he can use for his case
>gets called out on it
>new guy defends my case
>redirects and goes for "he claims Uzumaki's are Hamura's not Senju's"
XDDD


I advice you to actually learn fallacies.
But I know your own stupidity will stop you from that

So keep saying I'm doing this and that, when you are the one doing all of that.


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salamander uchiha

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1. >Nagato Uzumaki = Senju blood thereby making Uzumaki Clan as Senju's descendants XDDDD

2.>but wholeheartedly acknowledge Nagato being Senju is proof that Uzumaki is Senju

3.>redirects and goes for "he claims Uzumaki's are Hamura's not Senju's"
XDDD
The only parts that have remote truth in them.

1. Part was fixed (added your ommitance of Uzumaki) and I agree.

2. Is nonsense, since it's confirmed twice Nagato is an Uzumaki, once by Obito (scan you provided) and the second by Kabuto. And yet he (an Uzumaki) is referred to as a Senju.

3. You brought up Uzumakis with your initial deflection from the original discussion, not me. And in turn you were called out for saying they're Hamura descendants.

That Is why you're asked for the evidences (Uzumaki are Hamura descendants). I'm sure you have it. Now this is my last post until then.
 

wanderingcactus

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The only parts that have remote truth in them.

1. Part was fixed (added your ommitance of Uzumaki) and I agree.

2. Is nonsense, since it's confirmed twice Nagato is an Uzumaki, once by Obito (scan you provided) and the second by Kabuto. And yet he (an Uzumaki) is referred to as a Senju.

3. You brought up Uzumakis with your initial deflection from the original discussion, not me. And in turn you were called out for saying they're Hamura descendants.

That Is why you're asked for the evidences (Uzumaki are Hamura descendants). I'm sure you have it. Now this is my last post until then.
"remote"

uhhh ok.

Nagato being Senju isn't enough to make an entire clan a Senju.

That's the fucking logic fallacy coming from you.

My example of me referring to Hamura theory came from my argument that we had there.
That being you are illogical and do not budge when proven an evidence.

Then I started mimicking you since all you do is run away.


You have yet given me any evidence for the Naruto being shit at chakra control
As well as Uzumaki being a Senju descendant.


Everyone can agree here that Nagato is a Senju.

Most of all, the BIGGEST blunder on your part is using a THEORY (something I explicitly say that is a theory) as an argument.


Your claim for Uzumaki is Senju descendant is a widely known THEORY. (bandwagon fallacy).

My claim is ALSO a THEORY. Which means, you must present me a stronger case as to why yours is MORE logical than my own theory. I did not deny that my theory is canon, nor is it the truth. Mine was a a theory, not the truth.

You on the other hand, use a THEORY that the Uzumaki is a Senju clan when there are no evidence of such a thing (Nagato is an individual and not a representative of the entire clan. He is also a mix of other clans as well and not of incest.)

We know it to be true as Senju and Uzumaki have close ties with one another and from time to time provide marriage partners to the other clans like Mito and Kushina. (although this is for the 9tails Jin for their case).


You have done nothing that refutes my claim nor support yours.

Both in the Hamura theory AND this comment thread of which you said "Naruto is incompetent"
 

salamander uchiha

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"remote"

uhhh ok.

Nagato being Senju isn't enough to make an entire clan a Senju.

That's the fucking logic fallacy coming from you.

My example of me referring to Hamura theory came from my argument that we had there.
That being you are illogical and do not budge when proven an evidence.

Then I started mimicking you since all you do is run away.


You have yet given me any evidence for the Naruto being shit at chakra control
As well as Uzumaki being a Senju descendant.


Everyone can agree here that Nagato is a Senju.

Most of all, the BIGGEST blunder on your part is using a THEORY (something I explicitly say that is a theory) as an argument.


Your claim for Uzumaki is Senju descendant is a widely known THEORY. (bandwagon fallacy).

My claim is ALSO a THEORY. Which means, you must present me a stronger case as to why yours is MORE logical than my own theory. I did not deny that my theory is canon, nor is it the truth. Mine was a a theory, not the truth.

You on the other hand, use a THEORY that the Uzumaki is a Senju clan when there are no evidence of such a thing (Nagato is an individual and not a representative of the entire clan. He is also a mix of other clans as well and not of incest.)

We know it to be true as Senju and Uzumaki have close ties with one another and from time to time provide marriage partners to the other clans like Mito and Kushina. (although this is for the 9tails Jin for their case).


You have done nothing that refutes my claim nor support yours.

Both in the Hamura theory AND this comment thread of which you said "Naruto is incompetent"
The problem with your theory is it has negligible weight, mine has some statements and associations. They're concluded via deduction and moreso Nagato a confirmed Uzmaki, yet referred to as a Senju while Naruto an incarnate reincarnates in the clan associated with the Senju by blood and by Nagato being called as one. That is why mine is more valid or at least more acceptable, there's nothing more to it tbh.

I've supported mine as best I can, now you support yours. As for Naruto being incompetent that hasn't changed. Until somebody can tell me why he required a shadow clone to form a rasengan (+ his own admittance on how hard it was for him), relative to Minato, Jiraiya or Kakashi nothing changes in that regard.


Anyway, until then see ya.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Also, there was no point in mentioning the other 2 clans in her statement because they are irrelevant to the topic.
It doesn't really matter that they're irrelevant. All that matters is whether Kushina knows if the Senjus are related to the Hyugas. If she doesn't that means she has no reason to believe the Uzumakis are related to Hamura, which then means they are descendants of Hagoromo. If she doesn't know Uchiha and Senju are related, it then means they must descendants of Senju(or both branch from Asura at the least).
The fact that the Uzumakis were never in the Hidden Village of Leaf states that they aren't that close (as in a branch of Senjus).
For the most part, they kept close ties with one another and marrying off their children.

Much like the case with Mito and Hashirama and Minato (citizen of the leaf since Uchiha and Senju united with the other surrounding clans) and Kushina.
How intergrated they were with one another doesn't tell you close their blood ties are. Uchiha and Senju have strong blood ties and literally war with each other. Same with the Hagoromo and Uzumaki clan joining their battles. Main branch Hyugas treat the side-branch Hyugas like dogs.
The fact that Konoha pay tribute to the Uzumaki by embedding their crest into their uniform shows Senju's friendship with the Uzumakis.

But by no means that Senjus are superior to Uzumakis. In fact, they seem to be regarded as on equal terms (like Senjus are with the Uchihas and Hyugas).

If they truly are Senju's descendants, then there's no reasons for currying favors. There is no reason for the tightnit friendship and deep respect as they are one of the same clan.

They are on equal footing and therefore not a direct clan member but rather a higher lineage relation (ergo, not Asura's lineage but Hagoromo's and Hamura's)
Just because one descended from the other doesn't mean they're the same clan. That's like calling an Uchiha an Otsutsuki.
There are no explicit evidence to stand that the Uzumakis ARE Senju's clan, much like the claim that they are of Hamura's.

Although there are way too many parallels, similarities and coincidences that points to the latter being true than the former.


The only evidence to make the former true are these and they are weak reasonings:
Kushina's statement of "distant blood relative" that can be taken as such.
Nagato's lineage is also negligible as well as he is an individual and not the clan itself.
I'm not saying the Uzumaki's are the Senju clan. I'm saying they branched from it OR alongside it. Kushina saying that they're distant relatives is honestly proof enough. By looking at her statements in-universe, the theory that she's a descendant of Hamura can be eliminated. Her statements must be assumed to be 100% true, therefore undeniably hard facts. Not weak. The only real question is did she know whether the Senju and Hyuga were related, which is unlikely because the Sage of Six Paths was literally a myth to them. They probably didn't even know the existance of his brother lol. The brother who's literally the only thing linking the Senjus to Hyugas.
 
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wanderingcactus

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I'm not saying the Uzumaki's are the Senju clan. I'm saying they branched from it OR alongside it. Kushina saying that they're distant relatives is honestly proof enough. By looking at her statements in-universe, the theory that she's a descendant of Hamura can be eliminated. Her statements must be assumed to be 100% true, therefore undeniably hard facts. Not weak. The only real question is did she know whether the Senju and Hyuga were related, which is unlikely because the Sage of Six Paths was literally a myth to them. They probably didn't even know the existance of his brother lol. The brother who's literally the only thing linking the Senjus to Hyugas.

Knowing that they have close personal relationship with one another, it isn't enough to assume that they aren't. Knowing and not knowing isn't proof.

It just means they are close.

Again, this panel is from a time where there are no Hagoromo and Hamura. Just Rikuduo Sennin. They happen after that.

Kushina's knowledge comes from strong ties from her clan and the Senju (it is still unknown where their blood ties come from).

We know that Uchihas are DIRECT relatives of the Senjus and yet they do not know. (because they always wage war with one another as being mercenaries are their way of life).

At most, the Uzumaki always hire the Senju for their trade and the vice versa and that is why they are so close.

I can make that assumption too. I've already pointed out that they also trade people to marry off.

There's another reason why they are such a closely knit "family"


There is no reliable proof that confirms nor does it refute the theories both mine and his.

my theory conforms to facts

>distant relative
Hamura and Hagoromo are related

still remains to be true

>Nagato's lineage
Nagato is part Senju and part Uzumaki

still remains true

>Naruto's transmigrant
No Senjus left, Ninshu is also linked with other people, Uzumaki is strong Yang affinity (irrelevant where the lineage stemmed from at this point).

still remains true


BTW: we moved the thread over since this is off topic now.

 

HowDidIGetPrem

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my theory conforms to facts

>distant relative
Hamura and Hagoromo are related

still remains to be true

>Nagato's lineage
Nagato is part Senju and part Uzumaki

still remains true

>Naruto's transmigrant
No Senjus left, Ninshu is also linked with other people, Uzumaki is strong Yang affinity (irrelevant where the lineage stemmed from at this point).

still remains true
But it doesn't conform to Kushina's understanding of the world. Kushina is unlikely to know Hyugas and Senjus are related, thus the Uzumakis formed later down the line(Senjus/Asura's line) to where it could be pinpointed. Just like Nagato being a Senju doesn't mean all Uzumakis are Senjus, some Uzumakis being married to Senjus doesn't mean all Uzumakis are Senjus. Kushina's words imply all Uzumakis are related to Senjus, not some.
 
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