[Discussion] there was a 3rd person in madara vs hashirama fight!!!

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

I see a line and a sound effect. There are many other explanations for this. When I first read it, I just figured it was sound effects from the rain. I don't know what that symbol is supposed to be, but I don't think that was supposed to be a hint at another person being there.


Though I suppose it's possible. It's a weird panel.


Actually I just thought of an interesting explanation for this. I think it might be the formation of the waterfall that is at the VOTE. It shows it raining and a line going down the cliff, then the next panel shows a wide shot of the valley their fight created, and water streaming down the cliff (which eventually turned into a larger waterfall)

This is by far the best explanation.

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the next scan showing the waterfall.

p.s. that same sound effect with the line below is used a couple of pages before this as seen in

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in the left bottom panel. Not sure what to make of it. Note that there are separate sound effects (sshh) for the rain.

 

[davidou]

when hashirama and madara was fighting , then at the end of the fight hashirama noticed someone on the cliff of mountain ...you can see that in this manga page (in middle panel) :-

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whoever that person was but one thing is sure which is that person was the one who helped madara to reach to the hide out of madara

what you guys think about that manga page ?!?

I see 2 hypothesis:

-there was someone here , and he made some noise at the wrong moment...
-the genjutsu of Madara ended when he was out of chakra , notice that the same kanji is present when Madara began the genjutsu.I think this kanji represents the sound that the genjutsu makes when switched ON/OFF.

 

[AlphaSeed]

why does everyone rule out zetsu? Zetsu is the black part , the white clones are hashi , might also explain why he couldnt be shown atop the cliff because he is as black as the night

 

[ShadowBandit]

why does everyone rule out zetsu? Zetsu is the black part , the white clones are hashi , might also explain why he couldnt be shown atop the cliff because he is as black as the night

Black Zetzu was created when Madara was an old man, training Obito. Its shown in a flashback.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Has a viz version of this chapter been released yet? That might help clear this up.

Actually I just checked, this chapter will be in volume 65 which wont be released until April.

 

[Naruto.]

I dont think he could use izanagi at that moment, b'cuz Izanagi requires senju dna as well to activate. So, he had just received the DNA but to really make it work he certainly needed to study it, gather more info etc, plus, he was severely wounded.
And also if Madara really used izanagi, then he would have won or the outcome would have been different. The body infront of Hashi too would have vanished.

Thats what I think.

Senju DNA is not necessary for Izanagi. Uchihas could still use Izanagi with their Sharingan but it would be an incomplete form. Senju DNA is only necessary for Complete form of Izanagi.

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Senju DNA is not necessary for Izanagi. Uchihas could still use Izanagi with their Sharingan but it would be an incomplete form. Senju DNA is only necessary for Complete form of Izanagi.

Senju DNA increased the duration of Izanagi. I believe that's all it did though.

 

[Shinato]

Ummmm madara fought Hashi multiple times....what makes you think he didn't obtain his DNA than and also he was once his friend so hey I am not saying they had gay *** but nothing is impossible

Madara's goal during his final fight with Hashirama Senju was to obtain his DNA, in which he succeded. I also believe that the reason Hashirama looked up was most likely because of Madara's words. "One day.. That will become darkness.. And envelop the Village." Thus Hashirama looks up into the "Darkness" of the Night Sky. In all versions of Madara's back story, its shown that Madara pulls a blade out of his stomach and we know that this isn't the case as Hashirama took his weapons with him. But it may just symbolize that Madara manged to make it back himself, or that he preformed Medical Ninjutsu at the battle site.

 

[Shinato]

why does everyone rule out zetsu? Zetsu is the black part , the white clones are hashi , might also explain why he couldnt be shown atop the cliff because he is as black as the night

The White Zetsu was created using the Gedo Mazou and Hashirama Senju's DNA. Making what Madara called "Androids" of Hashirama Senju, or artificial "Clones" of Hashirama, though they are of "Poor Quality". The Black Zetsu is a regular white one, but its been fused with Madara's will.

 

[Chatte]

There are some possibilities...
1. Either it's no one and he was just looking at the cliff...
2. Mito, as it's said that she helped sealing the 9 tails
3. Tobirama

 

[Shinato]

Senju DNA is not necessary for Izanagi. Uchihas could still use Izanagi with their Sharingan but it would be an incomplete form. Senju DNA is only necessary for Complete form of Izanagi.

The Uchiha are able to preform the full version of both Izanagi and Izanami without the Senju DNA. They are twin jutsus, and Uchiha Itachi preformed the Izanami jutsu without Senju DNA, hinting that he could preform the Izanagi as well. The Senju DNA increase the time one can use Izanagi however, though in Danzo's case, it only allowed him to use it.

 

[Naruto.]

The Uchiha are able to preform the full version of both Izanagi and Izanami without the Senju DNA. They are twin jutsus, and Uchiha Itachi preformed the Izanami jutsu without Senju DNA, hinting that he could preform the Izanagi as well. The Senju DNA increase the time one can use Izanagi however, though in Danzo's case, it only allowed him to use it.

From Naruto Wikia:
"Izanagi can only be used by those with the genetic traits of the Sage of the Six Paths. The

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, descended from the Sage, are able to perform Izanagi with their

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. In exchange for the brief control of reality that it allows them, the Sharingan with which Izanagi is cast becomes blind. For this reason the Uchiha labelled it a

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.

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, in an effort to make practical use of the technique, had ten Sharingan embedded into his right arm.
To make full use of Izanagi, users must also have the genetic traits of the

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, who are also descended from the Sage.

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also makes use of Hashirama's DNA but, in contrast to Danzō, he claims to have gained control over Hashirama's DNA and as such, boasts the completed form of Izanagi".


See? Obito being an Uchiha still couldn't perform full Izanagi without Senju DNA.
And, only pure Uchihas can perform Izanami. Izanami doesn't require Senju DNA.

 

[SharinganisOP]

The 3RD Person you're Talking About Is Kurama If You Rember He Was Controlled By Madara


ITACHI SOLOS

Why are people skipping over this? This is most likely the truth.

We know of no one else that was present at that fight other than Madara, Hashirama, and the kyuubi.

Hashirama had put the Kyuubi to sleep. Since the Kyuubi isn't shown inside the valley of the end, I will guess that the Kyuubi is still up top. The exclamation point could either be Hashirama realizing the kyuubi is waking up, or just checking to make sure the kyuubi hasn't woken up. I would accept this possibillity over a much less probable outcome of a third human, no one would want to be around those two when they are fighting (destroying mountains and making valleys and what not, would be too dangerous)

To those saying it was Zetsu. Zetsu wasn't able to be made until Madara cultivated Hashirama's cells that he obtained from this fight. And even if he had cells from before this fight of Hashiramas, he couldn't cultivate them into a zetsu because he didn't have the Gedo to cultivate them with because he did not have access to the rinnegan until sometime after this fight.

 

[WhistleBlower]

WOW!! EXCELLENT THOUGHT MAN!!!

Now, you got me wondering who it could be....i don't think it'd be another uchiha? Otherwise, possibly madara's triumph card could be this mysterious uchiha who is skilled ?

Think about it. Only 4 uchiha's that we know about which awakened the mangekyou sharingan. Perhaps they were more people who found out and also attained the MS. Perhaps one of these talented uchiha helped madara by being his personal lackey O_O

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

It was teuchi!!

No but serious good find.. i don't see why he would put that panel of the cliff in there if he was just falling down.
And in the panel before that hashi has a serious face, not an aww im in pain face.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

WOW!! EXCELLENT THOUGHT MAN!!!

Now, you got me wondering who it could be....i don't think it'd be another uchiha? Otherwise, possibly madara's triumph card could be this mysterious uchiha who is skilled ?

Think about it. Only 4 uchiha's that we know about which awakened the mangekyou sharingan. Perhaps they were more people who found out and also attained the MS. Perhaps one of these talented uchiha helped madara by being his personal lackey O_O

thanks dude
yeah you're right

It was teuchi!!

No but serious good find.. i don't see why he would put that panel of the cliff in there if he was just falling down.
And in the panel before that hashi has a serious face, not an aww im in pain face.

yeah

 

[HamzaVeli]

Wasnt that the fight - where supposedly hashi's wife mito, took part in aswell ? - maybe hes wonderin how mito is doin with subduing the kyuubi

 

[eyesofthekyuubi44]

I think he really was just pondering what Madara said then succumbed to an injury he had....

This is overthinking.

I mean Madara left a pretty deep comment. Someone probably helped Madara out, but I dont think at that moment.

 

[GhostProject]

A very original thought, I like =D

It would be interesting if a 3rd party orchestrated the fight and motivations between Hashirama and Madara, kinda like Obito was doing with Naruto and Sasuke originally.

 

[Oblivionx]

izanami maybe....! real madara escaped and hashirama detected him there but couldn't do anything...! or may be uzmaki mito.....!