[Discussion] there was a 3rd person in madara vs hashirama fight!!!

[H A D E S]

Izanagi doesn't require Senju DNA to use..it only requires Senju DNA to be used to the fullest. Izanami and Izanagi are Uchiha techniques. The Uchiha created Izanami to stop other Uchiha from killing their family and stealing their eyes to continue using Izanagi, but that's besides the point. And I think the body did vanish after Hashirama passed out, Kishi just didn't show it there because he wanted to keep readers wondering how Madara survived.

But whats the point of using such a powerful jutsu simply to escape. He could've used it to win the fight instead.

And also, If he used izanagi from a different sharingan and not his original EMS. Then, he wouldnt have that much power to face hashi for so long as to push Hashi on his limits too. What I'm trying to say is that every sharingan has its individual powers. Madara cant plant someone else's Sharingan and still be able to use his EMS techs. He would be limited the techs of the eye he planted on himself.
But during the fight we can clearly see that Madara had his original EMS on him.

So, izanagi is not possible here.

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Don't you know how to read? I said something about that already..

madara didnt used izanagi because:-

1-Madara should tried to kill hashirama after the izanagi as hashirama didnt knew that madara used izanagi , madara had the perfect opportunity to kill hashirama at that time

2-Izanagi can only be used if you have senju cells as you can see in that page

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3-If (which is impossible) madara used izanagi then madara's body should be disappeared that time

 

[ShadowBandit]

Its a good find, not sure about it though.

Never seen Kishi foreshadow something, or elude to something with so little information. But its a possibility.

I mean, didn't Sasuke look up at the stars after defeating Naruto, then he collapsed.

But if it is somebody, the question is, who at this point could orchestrate such a massive plan, that includes somebody so powerful as Madara to be a pawn.

For me, if it was anyone.

I go by the two theories, that I've reported before. Such its either somehow the Elder Son, of the sage.

Or its the Jubi, in some form or an other, setting a path for Madara so the Jubi can can once again roam the earth. (Which is happening right now, but he's still trapped as jinjurkchi in Obito).

 

[Young Vongola]

But whats the point of using such a powerful jutsu simply to escape. He could've used it to win the fight instead.

And also, If he used izanagi from a different sharingan and not his original EMS. Then, he wouldnt have that much power to face hashi for so long as to push Hashi on his limits too. What I'm trying to say is that every sharingan has its individual powers. Madara cant plant someone else's Sharingan and still be able to use his EMS techs. He would be limited the techs of the eye he planted on himself.
But during the fight we can clearly see that Madara had his original EMS on him.

So, its izanagi is not possible here.

Madara knew he couldn't win, so he used Izanagi to retreat with the possibility of fighting another day. And I think I remember it being stated that he was trying to get Hashirama's DNA so that he could obtain Rinnegan and the secrets to the SO6P.

As for the Sharingan part, I didn't say he wasn't using his original MS during that fight. I was saying that he probably implanted the sharingans from his spare set after he used izanagi. And why wouldn't an implanted non MS Sharingan be able to use MS techs from someone that has MS?

 

[Currahee]

look deeply , after that exclamation mark , hashirama looked at the cliff of the mountain

yeah he was probably in deep thought. Regreting the need for this. Who would it be Madara's the strongest Uchiha. Unless it's the sage or his brother no ones there

 

[H A D E S]

Madara knew he couldn't win, so he used Izanagi to retreat with the possibility of fighting another day. And I think I remember it being stated that he was trying to get Hashirama's DNA so that he could obtain Rinnegan and the secrets to the SO6P.

As for the Sharingan part, I didn't say he wasn't using his original MS during that fight. I was saying that he probably implanted the sharingans from his spare set after he used izanagi. And why wouldn't an implanted non MS Sharingan be able to use MS techs from someone that has MS?

He had the Izanagi then ofcourse he could win. Hashi was way tired too.

Okay, when one uses too much MS techs he goes blind, yes? And gains EMS when he takes his sibling's eye (only siblings not just anyone). But he would still gain eye sight if he planted himself a sharingan from different person (not sibling) but he would also lose his ms techs. This can be found from Obito and Madara's first meeting. Madara had already given his originaly eye to Nagato but he still had a sharingan. If what you say is true, then during that time Madara should've had an EMS or rinnegan itself. He didnt have rinnegan or EMS cuz it was not his real eye.

Another, incident point this out. Obito vs Konan: Obito used izanagi from his left eye and not his right eye cuz that would take away his MS techs. Also he has never been seen to use Kamui from his left eye.

And Also if what you say is true, then Itachi could've simply implanted other sharingans and never lose his eyesight (though not completely) and still keep his MS techs.

 

[aluko]

hashirama noticed someone on mountain and when hashirama look up there was no one there

for your question's answer :-
if ,and only if kurama was there then why hashirama didnt saw kurama??



lol ....if that was possible then madara most probably won the fight and if that was possible to cast genjutsu through moon then why madara bothered to revive juubi ,as he could be able to cast that infinte tsukuyomi himself

My guess also, maybe he really did cast a genjutsu on the moon but was tempoary cause he didn't have enough juice to make it infinite and that why he needs hashirama's cell to control the jubbi.we all know senju have a great life force xpecially hashirama,maybe hashirama cell combined with his visual prowess he would be able to fully control the jubbi.
Which inturn make a perfect infinit genjustsu on the moon.we all know hashirama once had all the tailed beast I believe that is y madara had to fight a death match with him to get the cells and @ the same time cast the moon genjustu on him even if it was just for a limited time just for him to excape cause he was also seriously wounded.

So I think what hashirama senced @ the mountain top might actually be madara.

 

[nite]

maybe some twist, like izuna's son or madara's aunt madara survived. as history went on, it gets revealed that sasuke is izuna's gr8 grand son or some way related to inzuna ( not just by clan but a family relation).

im thinking like this coz no way izuna and sasuke resemblance is mere coincidence.

 

[GrayParadise]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, this is definitely something new.
Wonder who that could've been though... Shisui's dad maybe? This would allow for some type of relevance of his.

It makes sense because Shisui had some relevance to the story, he gave Itachi ms.
His father however, has none.

 

[Sarutobi Sasuke]

i don't think so I think it's just hashirama's injuries hurting him so he collapses. that exclamation mark is just like a grunt of pain

This ^

 

[Jako98146]

It was probably him looking at the moon

Or maybe it could've been a person looking to aid Madara, and if it was, I personally think it was Kakuzu

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

This ^

dude when appears exclamation mark then the hashirama suddenly looked up onto the cliff of mountain

look deeply

 

[-ahhimane-]

Good observation. But when I see that panel zoomed, there's no shadow or any other person standing there.
Hashirama might be shocked about the time, means he'd be like thinking, " It's been night already? " or " It's been raining for a while. "
But your thread made me thinking for a while though

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

Heh, there's no third person. There isn't anyone there...

 

[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Heh, there's no third person. There isn't anyone there...

really? ......didnt you see that hashirama noticed someone on mountain?

 

[Ero sennin jiraiya]

really? ......didnt you see that hashirama noticed someone on mountain?

I see a line and a sound effect. There are many other explanations for this. When I first read it, I just figured it was sound effects from the rain. I don't know what that symbol is supposed to be, but I don't think that was supposed to be a hint at another person being there.


Though I suppose it's possible. It's a weird panel.


Actually I just thought of an interesting explanation for this. I think it might be the formation of the waterfall that is at the VOTE. It shows it raining and a line going down the cliff, then the next panel shows a wide shot of the valley their fight created, and water streaming down the cliff (which eventually turned into a larger waterfall)

 

[Byron123]

Wow that really left me speechless. It is possible

 

[tysoncs]

i think he is a helper of madara.....as hashirama gave him a awkard look!

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That helper may be from hagoromo clan...as hagoromo clan helped the uchihas in the war!

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[SIR UZMAKIMADARA]

Wow that really left me speechless. It is possible

thanks =D

i think he is a helper of madara.....as hashirama gave him a awkard look!

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That helper may be from hagoromo clan...as hagoromo clan helped the uchihas in the war!

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yeah its possible

 

[Harry Balzac]

u guys are confused. it is the pain he felt after the battle that made him collapse . the same that happened to sasuke vs naruto in part1

Nope, you're confused. Take note of the top cliff he's staring at, he sensed someone up there. And look at hashirama's facial expression he made.

hashirama is the kage level shinobi and he was not fool to be caught in madara's genjutsu and how he couldn't be able to see that madara was escaping ?

Quote from the databook

"The jutsu he used to fool even hashirama is know to him..and him alone."

Hashirama was played.