[Theory] The Reason Why Madara Survived The Battle With Hashirama (Solved)

[ObitoGokuKakashi]

No I don't think so, I go with the Gen Jutsu Theory.

 

[NaruSasuRival]

That fact remains that Madara survived that fight when Hashirama thought that he had been killed. You seem to be ignoring this critical reality. The OP isn't stating that Madara was completely fine when he used his genjutsu, only that he used it to make Hashi think that he had been killed. That is all.

Surviving a strike does not mean in any instance that there is a genjutsu. I think you guys are the one using word without thinking their meaning. A genjutsu doesn't mean reality. Even Tsukyomi of Itachi which causes one to suffer does not inflict physical damage. Everything is done in the realm of the consciousness. There was no illusion in that fight, and Madara was really wounded. How can it be an illusion. If it was a genjutsu, then Hashirama should have fought alone with a dummy Madara, and therefore Madara wouldn't have any scar on his chest.

The truth is that Hashirama was thinking, and he thought he struck Madara. Since the strike was real, we know that he wasn't in a genjutsu. Hashirama's account is perfectly corroborated by Madara himself. Madara said he escape death and needed to attach himself to the gedo Mazou to survive. Fact is that we don't know the time before Madara implanted Hashirama's cell in his wound and the time of Rinnegan awakening. Given how weak an uchiha body his with respect to Senju, there are possibilities that Madara's body was overtaken by Hashirama's DNA. An hint in the manga is that Madara remained inexistant after the fight with Hashirama in every country.

This disappearance of Madara itself shows that he was seriously damaged by Hashirama's strike and was saved only by the cell. I don't think you are being logical when you argue that Madara used a genjutsu just to take a strike that would cause him to not attack Konoha anymore.

As far as I am concerned, your reasoning is very shallow, and the only it proves that you don't read the series as a whole. I could even say that you are not reasoning. Rather, you are conjecturing, and as long there is no fact to back up your conjecture, it is useless. Madara being alive is explained in the manga by himself - He used Hashirama's cell to heal his wound. So tell me what he used the genjutsu for?

Note: Even the so said stupid Naruto know if he is in a genjutsu or not. Apart from Koto genjutsu, all genjutsu controlled people know they are being controlled.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Because he didn't want to kill him, his intention was just to obtain his DNA, and it's also possible that Madara killed him at another time thats why hashi died young

Say whaaat??
Hashirama is revived as an edo, but has'nt mentioned anything of madara ever killing him.


Ot: There was no genjutsu, madara probably just transplanted hashirama's dna which resuscitated him from what was probably a coma like state. Besides madara stated to Obito that he transplanted hashi's dna into his wound(showing his chest) so its obvious that was a real wound. Seeing as how Hashirama fought him his entire life, doubt he would'nt notice his genjutsu anyway.

 

[TheKBD]

But Madara it's still wounded,and if the genjutsu ended,why is Madara still on the ground?

i'm fairly certain that madara was part of the illusion also, and that the real madara was up on the hill derp pointed out

 

[ardianiiH]

I think it's because Madara's EMS is able to control time or something like that.. if you watch Madara vs Hashirama..

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during the fight you see how Madara uses his EMS to go backards or something like that.. on 03:06

please watch the video and you'll see what i mean

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

I think it's because Madara's EMS is able to control time or something like that.. if you watch Madara vs Hashirama..

You must be registered for see links

during the fight you see how Madara uses his EMS to go backards or something like that.. on 03:06

please watch the video and you'll see what i mean

Interesting, thank you for sharing. Lol

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

Surviving a strike does not mean in any instance that there is a genjutsu. I think you guys are the one using word without thinking their meaning. A genjutsu means reality. Even Tsukyomi of Itachi which causes one to suffer does not inflict physical damage. Everything is done in the realm of the consciousness. There was no illusion in that fight, and Madara was really wounded. How can it be an illusion. If it was a genjutsu, then Hashirama should have fought alone with a dummy Madara, and therefore Madara wouldn't have any scar on his chest.

The truth is that Hashirama was thinking, and he thought he struck Madara. Since the strike was real, we know that he wasn't in a genjutsu. Hashirama's account is perfectly corroborated by Madara himself. Madara said he escape death and needed to attach himself to the gedo Mazou to survive. Fact is that we don't know the time before Hashirama implanted Hashirama's cell in his wound and the time of Rinnegan awakening. Given how weak an uchiha body his with respect to Senju, there are possibilities that Madara's body was overtaken by Hashirama's DNA. An hint in the manga is that Madara remained inexistant after the fight with Hashirama in every country.

This disappearance of Madara itself shows that he was seriously damaged by Hashirama's strike and was saved only by the cell. I don't think you are being logical when you argue that Madara used a genjutsu just to take a strike that would cause him to not attack Konoha anymore.

As far as I am concerned, your reasoning is very shallow, and the only it proves that you don't read the series as a whole. I could even say that you are not reasoning. Rather, you are conjecturing, and as long there is no fact to back up your conjecture, it is useless. Madara being alive is explained in the manga by himself - He used Hashirama's cell to heal his wound. So tell me what he used the genjutsu for?

Note: Even the so said stupid Naruto know if he is in a genjutsu or not. Apart from Koto genjutsu, all genjutsu controlled people know they are being controlled.

My reasoning is shallow? You do not see the point. The reason that people notice that they are in a genjutsu most of the time is because it is obvious. Subtle genjutsus can slip the target's notice. For example, Sasuke placed a genjutsu on Danzo to make him think that one eye on his hand was still open, and that is all. He changed nothing else, and it was such a small illusion that Danzo had not noticed it at all.

Madara COULD have placed a genjutsu on Hashirama at the very end of their fight when a panel was dedicated to only Madara's sharingan. The only thing he had to change was the placement of where Hashirama struck him. The illusion would be that Madara was was inches to the side from where he truly was. That would have placed Hashirama's strike to the side of the spine instead of actually severing his spine as Hashirama had thought. Cutting his spine would have been fatal, but missing by a few inches would have just been a critical wound. This subtle difference could have went unnoticed by Hashirama. Madara stated that he injected Hashirama's cells into the wound he suffered in that battle. As you can see here, it is on his left pectoral region and not in the middle of his sternum where Hashirama thought he stabbed him.

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You must be registered for see images

Edit: I'm not sure what Hashirama noticed on top of the hill but it could have been, and again this is speculation, a small fault in Madara's genjutsu.

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Awesome theory ***** fo' ju XD

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Awesome theory ***** fo' ju XD

Thank you

 

[paratise]

Makes sense...You must have lot of time in your hands mate.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Makes sense...You must have lot of time in your hands mate.

Ty and nice Avy

 

[Decimation206]

Nice, I agree, that it was probably a genjutsu and i hope they fight again and Madara whoops his ass....

 

[Black Ace]

I totally agree with Q. He include some example and i disagree with the narusasurival. Q made a better presentation on it and yoou did not back up your facts about your theory.

My reasoning is shallow? You do not see the point. The reason that people notice that they are in a genjutsu most of the time is because it is obvious. Subtle genjutsus can slip the target's notice. For example, Sasuke placed a genjutsu on Danzo to make him think that one eye on his hand was still open, and that is all. He changed nothing else, and it was such a small illusion that Danzo had not noticed it at all.

Madara COULD have placed a genjutsu on Hashirama at the very end of their fight when a panel was dedicated to only Madara's sharingan. The only thing he had to change was the placement of where Hashirama struck him. The illusion would be that Madara was was inches to the side from where he truly was. That would have placed Hashirama's strike to the side of the spine instead of actually severing his spine as Hashirama had thought. Cutting his spine would have been fatal, but missing by a few inches would have just been a critical wound. This subtle difference could have went unnoticed by Hashirama. Madara stated that he injected Hashirama's cells into the wound he suffered in that battle. As you can see here, it is on his left pectoral region and not in the middle of his sternum where Hashirama thought he stabbed him.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Edit: I'm not sure what Hashirama noticed on top of the hill but it could have been, and again this is speculation, a small fault in Madara's genjutsu.

 

[NoFace]

If this is true, it proves another thing.... MADARA IS A GAWDDDDDD!!!!! !!!!

 

[NoFace]

Surviving a strike does not mean in any instance that there is a genjutsu. I think you guys are the one using word without thinking their meaning. A genjutsu means reality. Even Tsukyomi of Itachi which causes one to suffer does not inflict physical damage. Everything is done in the realm of the consciousness. There was no illusion in that fight, and Madara was really wounded. How can it be an illusion. If it was a genjutsu, then Hashirama should have fought alone with a dummy Madara, and therefore Madara wouldn't have any scar on his chest.

The truth is that Hashirama was thinking, and he thought he struck Madara. Since the strike was real, we know that he wasn't in a genjutsu. Hashirama's account is perfectly corroborated by Madara himself. Madara said he escape death and needed to attach himself to the gedo Mazou to survive. Fact is that we don't know the time before Hashirama implanted Hashirama's cell in his wound and the time of Rinnegan awakening. Given how weak an uchiha body his with respect to Senju, there are possibilities that Madara's body was overtaken by Hashirama's DNA. An hint in the manga is that Madara remained inexistant after the fight with Hashirama in every country.

This disappearance of Madara itself shows that he was seriously damaged by Hashirama's strike and was saved only by the cell. I don't think you are being logical when you argue that Madara used a genjutsu just to take a strike that would cause him to not attack Konoha anymore.

As far as I am concerned, your reasoning is very shallow, and the only it proves that you don't read the series as a whole. I could even say that you are not reasoning. Rather, you are conjecturing, and as long there is no fact to back up your conjecture, it is useless. Madara being alive is explained in the manga by himself - He used Hashirama's cell to heal his wound. So tell me what he used the genjutsu for?

Note: Even the so said stupid Naruto know if he is in a genjutsu or not. Apart from Koto genjutsu, all genjutsu controlled people know they are being controlled.

Not Shusui's Genjutsu. Got you there

 

[PAIN86]

he knew gaining both the sages eyes and body he could tap into the sages powers. obtained Hashirama's DNA, used genjustu to escape. waited to awaken the rinnegan so he could return to fight hashirama with his newly acquired powers to finally put the Uchiha above the senju and to bring peace, but as he said, nothing happened right away until before his death. kind of seems like he's implying he knew it would happen or something would happen

 

[The Work]

O_O Damn, I am completely mind blown

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

O_O Damn, I am completely mind blown

Thank You. Lol

 

[NaruSasuRival]

My reasoning is shallow? You do not see the point. The reason that people notice that they are in a genjutsu most of the time is because it is obvious. Subtle genjutsus can slip the target's notice. For example, Sasuke placed a genjutsu on Danzo to make him think that one eye on his hand was still open, and that is all. He changed nothing else, and it was such a small illusion that Danzo had not noticed it at all.

Madara COULD have placed a genjutsu on Hashirama at the very end of their fight when a panel was dedicated to only Madara's sharingan. The only thing he had to change was the placement of where Hashirama struck him. The illusion would be that Madara was was inches to the side from where he truly was. That would have placed Hashirama's strike to the side of the spine instead of actually severing his spine as Hashirama had thought. Cutting his spine would have been fatal, but missing by a few inches would have just been a critical wound. This subtle difference could have went unnoticed by Hashirama. Madara stated that he injected Hashirama's cells into the wound he suffered in that battle. As you can see here, it is on his left pectoral region and not in the middle of his sternum where Hashirama thought he stabbed him.

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Edit: I'm not sure what Hashirama noticed on top of the hill but it could have been, and again this is speculation, a small fault in Madara's genjutsu.

EVen if Sasuke place a genjutsu on Danzou, everything for which Sasuke place a genjutsu became reality. Danzou's Izanagi failed, and at that moment, Danzou could notice he was under a genjutsu if Sasuke did not tell him. The reason the person who is in genjutsu can notice the genjutsu is that they end up noticing that their action yield no result. Even with your genjutsu argument, you are failing to understand my line of argumentation. If Madara really used a genjustu, then this genjutsu failed, because he was struck anyway. The fact that Hashirama came from the back prove that Madara couldn't see him coming. You need to do better.

You can use any argument you want, but still, your genjutsu argument is too weak because Hashirama did wound Madara. You should rather try to explain what Madara used the genjutsu for, why, and how. In the same manner all the Uchiha fans were disappointed to know that Hashirama was way stronger than Madara, and that the Senju clan outperformed the uchiha of Madara; you will be bitterly disappointed to see that actually, Madara was saved by a third person. Yeah, all the people who think Hashirama has help will be kind of meh when it will be revealed that Madara is the one who was help by a third person.

Notice that in the manga, I only vouch for two character: (1) Minato, and (2) Naruto. However, since I usually read the manga as a whole, I can make reasonable argumentation. It is clear that Hashirama was testing Madara all along to see whether he can change or not. This is one aspect that many people miss most of the time. Guys like Hashirama and Naruto are both saviors and judges.

 

[orochimaru]

wooooooooow this an amazing find dude, it can't be argued !