[Theory] Possible weakness of Yata Mirror, Totsuka Blade and their wielder

[ImNoOne]

Stop with the yata needs chakra nonsense.
Kusanagi, samehade and any of the other seven swordsmen tools need no chakra but have special properties.
Madaras fan needs no chakra but reflects attacks.

Yata is a spiritual shield. It's just a shield. Shield don't take chakra to hold up. Yata just happens to be a special type of shield that reacts to attacks own its own without user input. Same way samehade can run to an opponent and attack of its own accord.

If this chakra shit were true, itachi would have died as soon as he used yata since his chakra was already low

Itachi's chakra was low? I'm pretty sure he died because he was sick and really out strained his body. No where is said he died from chakra depletion. In fact during that battle we see that Itachi's chakra pool is much larger than Sasuke's as he was able to drive Sasuke to use all his chakra + CM.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Yata

1) Databook states Yata is shapeless and formless meaning it can become whatever it needs to so ALL attacks lose meaning and are blocked.

2)This is disproven in the manga and databook cause in the manga Yata blocked 3 different things simultaneously (Metal Kunai, Fire from explosion, and the kinetic explosion force itself)

3) considering it blocked Kirin which was a nature energy attack that hit from all directions. Also once again Yata is not a chakra based entity its a magical/ spiritual entity. Chakra should not apply to it Databook says blocks ALL

4) Not even going to respond to this especially since it's attached to his susanoo and blocks ALL

Totsuka

1) Release yourself from totsuka? like I said Chakra does not apply to totsuka and yata since there spiritual weapons. Plus it is a "Seal" that puts you in a dream like state.

2) The blade not piercing you seems semi legit but the sword seems to be able to become solid and intangible considering each person it pierced received no physical damage.

3) It's true you can break a sealing technique but like the databook states it's a spiritual weapon and chakra fundamentals don't apply otherwise Nagato could have absorbed totsuka or shinra tensei it.

4) LOL again considering it's attached to susanoo which is completely in control by the user. Maybe if it was not wielded by susanoo it might be able to be taken but since it's attached it can't be taken.


All the information you needed to know was in the manga and databook you seem to be fixated on the WHY instead of just taking it for what it is. Nothing wrong with that at all btw

I had many questions regarding FTG but it seems its an actual jutsu that use chakra yet "Shits" on all chakra consumption fundamentals lol

Yata

1) Well most likely you are right...

2) Well that may be true... but KKG and KKT as well Ying-Yang (bijuudama) and other attacks using Ying-Yang release could bypass it as it is more then singular attack... Yata was stated to chane properties of singular attack, ONE ATTACK NOT MULTIPLE AT THE SAME TIME...

3) Well not... I can't agree with this point, it seems illogical simple, and until Kishi states me wrong or you can bring evidence of me being wrong then I still can't accept it as fact. The chakra is aplied to it until stated otherwise

4) Most likely true..., but then Could Yata consider Bansho Tenin as attack, If Nagato tried to pull only Yata Mirror from Itachi instead of attacking Yata itself. Bansho Tenin doesn't damage at all... so Yata should consider it as danger...

Same with Kamui absorbing Yata Mirror, same wtih Sealing scroll which could drawn Yata towards it... of course it couldn't be easy as pulling force would have to be enough to release grip of Itachi's Complete Sussano over Yata Mirror to release it.

Nowhere in Databook nor in the manga it is written that Yata is attached to it's wielder and serves him/her until his/her death... If no then it is possibility of taking it away.

Totsuka:

1) Well but it is not stated that you CAN'T ESCAPE FROM THIS DREAM LIKE WORD..., OF COURSE we will assume for now that you can simply as that but it will last as long as someone finally break of it and release yourself, same with Death repear seal. It was said that there is no escape from that but it looks like there is so it could be same with Totsuka... And again the chakra apply to Totsuka as well until stated otherwise.

2) Well here, I agree... Totsuka has no physcial form and didn't give physical/visible damage to anyone it pierces so it could debatable. However it was considered as varrant of Kusanagi Blade Orochimaru had and it couldn't pierce through four tails Kyuubi Naruto cloak v2.

3) Well you brought good points once again, but Nagato absorbing magical item could be senseless, pushing it away as well as it has NO PHYSCIAL FORM. However I didn't mean getting rid of this weapon and I agree and said before The blade itself is indestructible but there is possibility to break sealing spell of The blade by another powerfull sealing master... maybe way to stop sealing or undone it. IN the end SOMEONE HAS TO ENCHANCE THIS BLADE WITH SEALING TEACHNIQUE AS manga and databook doesn't states that this weapons was created with sealing technique....

4) Well same as wit Yata, The blade itself is not attached to Sussano by blood connection or something, so Ofc it can be taken away but this could be very hard to do that....

Thanks for brining good points and nice debate

Even although you proved me wrong in some points, still with some points I can't agree and there is lack of evidence to them...

 

[Mellanoma]

Yata

1) Well most likely you are right...

2) Well that may be true... but KKG and KKT as well Ying-Yang (bijuudama) and other attacks using Ying-Yang release could bypass it as it is more then singular attack... Yata was stated to chane properties of singular attack, ONE ATTACK NOT MULTIPLE AT THE SAME TIME...

3) Well not... I can't agree with this point, it seems illogical simple, and until Kishi states me wrong or you can bring evidence of me being wrong then I still can't accept it as fact. The chakra is aplied to it until stated otherwise

4) Most likely true..., but then Could Yata consider Bansho Tenin as attack, If Nagato tried to pull only Yata Mirror from Itachi instead of attacking Yata itself. Bansho Tenin doesn't damage at all... so Yata should consider it as danger...

Same with Kamui absorbing Yata Mirror, same wtih Sealing scroll which could drawn Yata towards it... of course it couldn't be easy as pulling force would have to be enough to release grip of Itachi's Complete Sussano over Yata Mirror to release it.

Nowhere in Databook nor in the manga it is written that Yata is attached to it's wielder and serves him/her until his/her death... If no then it is possibility of taking it away.

Totsuka:

1) Well but it is not stated that you CAN'T ESCAPE FROM THIS DREAM LIKE WORD..., OF COURSE we will assume for now that you can simply as that but it will last as long as someone finally break of it and release yourself, same with Death repear seal. It was said that there is no escape from that but it looks like there is so it could be same with Totsuka... And again the chakra apply to Totsuka as well until stated otherwise.

2) Well here, I agree... Totsuka has no physcial form and didn't give physical/visible damage to anyone it pierces so it could debatable. However it was considered as varrant of Kusanagi Blade Orochimaru had and it couldn't pierce through four tails Kyuubi Naruto cloak v2.

3) Well you brought good points once again, but Nagato absorbing magical item could be senseless, pushing it away as well as it has NO PHYSCIAL FORM. However I didn't mean getting rid of this weapon and I agree and said before The blade itself is indestructible but there is possibility to break sealing spell of The blade by another powerfull sealing master... maybe way to stop sealing or undone it. IN the end SOMEONE HAS TO ENCHANCE THIS BLADE WITH SEALING TEACHNIQUE AS manga and databook doesn't states that this weapons was created with sealing technique....

4) Well same as wit Yata, The blade itself is not attached to Sussano by blood connection or something, so Ofc it can be taken away but this could be very hard to do that....

Thanks for brining good points and nice debate

Even although you proved me wrong in some points, still with some points I can't agree and there is lack of evidence to them...

Yeah was fun dude! Valid points from both end. + r e p to you sir

 

[Draphsin]

1) Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga it is written that Yata Mirror can protect it's user from all directions aka 360 degrees... It is Itachi's fanboy assumption. Form what we saw Yata Mirror protect it's user just from the front...

This is wrong, it can cover 360 degrees, it can alter every one of its properties, size & shape are both properties.

2) Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga it is written that Yata Mirror can neglect more one element being used at the same time. It could mean that Bloodline limits, Kekkei Tota(made of three elments), combination of four elements aka Juubito's black matter technique, Obito's "Turning all Ninjutsu into nothing" new element, Bijuudama(made of Ying and Yang element) etc... Could bypass yata Mirror and attack wielder

This is also wrong, yata can defend against any attack, people who say it can defend against more than one element have no evidence to support that, in fact there is zero evidence suggesting that yata is restricted to elements. anything is deflected as shown by the databook scan that you posted.

3) Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga it is written that about from Yata Mirror takes chakra to turn back/reflect any attack. Nowhere it was written that Yata generates it's own chakra amount..., so only logically idea/explanation could be that Yata Mirror uses Wielder's chakra while protecting Wielder...
If that is true then it could mean any attack which consits greater amount of chakra then Wielder of Yata Mirror can bypass this shield and hurt wielder...

Yata is a tool & it is not based on chakra, it is an ethereal object with no physical form. It is different entity not connected to Itachi's susanoo.

4) Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga it is written that Yata Mirror belong to just one wielder and can't be taken away by someone else in battle. Let's think it... If Yata doesn't have mind on it's own then it doesn't have will to protect wielder or no... Simply it is no matter who is using Yata Mirror, Yata Mirror just fulfill it's purpouse and protect wielder, no matter what... Of course it could mean that attack would have to be such smooth, fast and powerfull to be small enough to avoid metting with Yata Mirror and have enough cutting power to break Itachi's Complete Sussano arm for example...

Chopping off susanoo's hand cant be possible as yata will just cover the entire susanoo like a dome similar to how obito used his jutsu for defense. There is no attack that can bypass yata mirror, the only way to stop it is if the user is not paying attention to an attack from behind, therefore they would not have yata mirror up.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Stop with the yata needs chakra nonsense.
Kusanagi, samehade and any of the other seven swordsmen tools need no chakra but have special properties.
Madaras fan needs no chakra but reflects attacks.

Yata is a spiritual shield. It's just a shield. Shield don't take chakra to hold up. Yata just happens to be a special type of shield that reacts to attacks own its own without user input. Same way samehade can run to an opponent and attack of its own accord.

If this chakra shit were true, itachi would have died as soon as he used yata since his chakra was already low

^^ true, but Samehada, Kusanagi Sworld can't reflect attack incomming at you... then to negate attack you need to cancel it with same attack which Yata Miror can create, but The Yata need to takes chakra from somewhere to generate that same attack as counter attack and here wielder's amount of chakra came to use.

Besides Samehada can absorb chakra from others... Kusanagi Sword is simply hard and nothing more, but it again doesn't reflect attack. Besidse we know that Samehada is capable of draining chakra even from the wielder so this may be as it works, first it drains chakra of wielder then absorb more chakra from outside attack, giving some chakra to wielder back. Kusanagi Sworld is not living thing so it doesn't matter.

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^^ Samehada sword drained Kisame's chakra then to transfer it back to Killer bee

Using Madara's war fan as proof ?, sorry but it is totally wrong, take a look at this scan:

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^^ Madara blocked Naruto's mini bijuudama but not only that:

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^^ Madara had to use technique to negate Naruto's attack and Naruto's clone

ONCE AGAIN NOT REFLECTING OF ATTACK

The bolded part is your assumption, same as mine idea of involving wielder's input in use of these weapons is assumption as well.. both can be true or wrong for now.

YATA IS NOT LIVING BEING AS SAMEHADA... at least it wasn't shown be living being..., besides it is not just shield but spiritual shiled... Of course it may not takes chakra to hold these weapons but when shield is being used to turn back any attack then wielder's chakra amount come necessary that what I think.

Underlined part is assumption, so I don't bother responding to that

This is wrong, it can cover 360 degrees, it can alter every one of its properties, size & shape are both properties.



This is also wrong, yata can defend against any attack, people who say it can defend against more than one element have no evidence to support that, in fact there is zero evidence suggesting that yata is restricted to elements. anything is deflected as shown by the databook scan that you posted.



Yata is a tool & it is not based on chakra, it is an ethereal object with no physical form. It is different entity not connected to Itachi's susanoo.



Chopping off susanoo's hand cant be possible as yata will just cover the entire susanoo like a dome similar to how obito used his jutsu for defense. There is no attack that can bypass yata mirror, the only way to stop it is if the user is not paying attention to an attack from behind, therefore they would not have yata mirror up.

^^ I agree with you at everything EXCEPT THIRD POINT.

It doesn't matter that Yata is tool/etheral object with no physcial form.

Treasured Sage of six paths are tools as well and yet they requires chakra to use...,

Nothing in The maga nor in databook states that Yata Miror or Totsuka Blade can work outside of chakra usage logic... it is even opposite as Yata mirror wielded By Itachi wasn't shown to repel attack which could requires more chakra then Itachi had.

Moreover After Itachi's Complete Sussano wielding Yata and Totsuka degraded to Incomplete form he could hold it up for some time. Use of Yata and Totsuka is what took such great toll on Itachi, not just Sussano... simply as that.

Unitl Manga or next Databook proves that Yata and Totsuka are not bounded by chakra laws by stating that I will stick to my theory with using of wielder chakra is possible weakness of Yata Mirror and weakness I listed applying to Totsuka Blade

However I respect your point

Yeah was fun dude! Valid points from both end. + r e p to you sir

Thanks to you too , it was excellent and I was enjoying this debate without insults or cursing on each other... everyone has right to have it's own point of view, idea etc.

That why I like to speculate with nice, understandable and respecting each other people

 

[Ngylle]

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People are so desperate that they change facts from manga itself. lol

 

[KCMNaruto]

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People are so desperate that they change facts from manga itself. lol

Wrong, this can only prove that Sasuke was out of chakra... not Itachi

Try harder to prove me wrong

 

[Penguin]

Nice post!

 

[KCMNaruto]

Nice post!

thanks a lot

 

[thebesthyuga]

Nice thread man and i think I'm with you,kishimoto didn't explain a lot from thee weapons