[Theory] Possible weakness of Yata Mirror, Totsuka Blade and their wielder

[KCMNaruto]

Plotsengan>Yata mirror

lol, it makes me laugh

 

[VolatileSoul]

I don't agree with the Yata Mirror limitations. The chakra one is pure BS, and the attacking at different sides doesn't sit well with me. When Itachi blocked Sasuke's explosive tags, there was an arc similar to a forcefield simply attacking from different angles at the same time just won't cut it. And how exactly is one going to take it away? That ain't happening.

Totsuka can't be taken away either. It's not like you can just waltz up and take these things. They are bonded to Susano'o, and I don't know how they would function when not in Susano'o's grasp. First and foremost, the genjutsu cannot be broken. It isn't simple genjutsu. You are transported to another world. If I remember correctly, it was said to be like a genjutsu, not a genjutsu exactly. Even if it could be broken, what would stop it from reapplying itself? Once it pierces something, it seals it. If it cannot pierce it, or whatever it is trying to pierce is too evasive, it cannot seal. That is basically what I see from that weapon.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I don't agree with the Yata Mirror limitations. The chakra one is pure BS, and the attacking at different sides doesn't sit well with me. When Itachi blocked Sasuke's explosive tags, there was an arc similar to a forcefield simply attacking from different angles at the same time just won't cut it. And how exactly is one going to take it away? That ain't happening.

Totsuka can't be taken away either. It's not like you can just waltz up and take these things. They are bonded to Susano'o, and I don't know how they would function when not in Susano'o's grasp. First and foremost, the genjutsu cannot be broken. It isn't simple genjutsu. You are transported to another world. If I remember correctly, it was said to be like a genjutsu, not a genjutsu exactly. Even if it could be broken, what would stop it from reapplying itself? Once it pierces something, it seals it. If it cannot pierce it, or whatever it is trying to pierce is too evasive, it cannot seal. That is basically what I see from that weapon.

Well thanks for your opinion

Of course chakra could matter, unless you believe Yata Mirror generates chakra from air/ from nothingess and as many as it want to turn back any attack... But it doesn't make sense.

Kishi simply created two invincible weapons but left some field for interpretation leaving holes by not reffering that wielder is invincible as well...

But If wielder was Itachi as Juubi Jinchurki or Sage of six paths then wielder with such weapons could be really invincible

 

[RasenUchihaChaos]

the hiruzen was the thing agaian

during his reign he was the strongest of the kage not hokage

 

[ImNoOne]

Where have you find this notion that Yata Mirror needs the users chakra?

Eitherway the dual type attack logic might just be it.

If you throw against it two different attacks with two different natures in theory the shield might not be able to respond to both. but the coordination would have to be perfect.

 

[Mellanoma]

Totsuka and Yata are not bound by the laws of chakra and ninjutsu... There spiritual and Magical weapons

Also you state that it does not state Yata can 360 defend when in fact it says "Shapeless and formless" meaning it can become whatever it needs to block all attacks

Where have you find this notion that Yata Mirror needs the users chakra?

Eitherway the dual type attack logic might just be it.

If you throw against it two different attacks with two different natures in theory the shield might not be able to respond to both. but the coordination would have to be perfect.

That is proven false in the manga since Sasuke used Kunai and Explosive tags

It blocked Metal, Fire, and the kinetic explosion from the paper bomb simultaneously

 

[KCMNaruto]

Where have you find this notion that Yata Mirror needs the users chakra?

Eitherway the dual type attack logic might just be it.

If you throw against it two different attacks with two different natures in theory the shield might not be able to respond to both. but the coordination would have to be perfect.

^^ True with dual type attack

The bolded part... simply Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga there is written something about it as Yata Mirror generates it's own chakra... so only logical idea could be thinking about from where Yata could takes chakra for repelling attack. If nothing is mentioned about it then that could mean Kishi left such hole specially for interpretation field.The most logical idea could be that Yata takes chakra from user... so if wielder can't deliver enough chakra to Yata to reflect incomming attack. Then Difference between amount of chakra put into attack and wielder's chakra could bypass Yata Mirror and attack the wielder with possibility of killing him.

 

[Mellanoma]

^^ True with dual type attack

The bolded part... simply Nowhere in Databook nor in The manga there is written something about it as Yata Mirror generates it's own chakra... so only logical idea could be thinking about from where Yata could takes chakra for repelling attack. If nothing is mentioned about it then that could mean Kishi left such hole specially for interpretation field.The most logical idea could be that Yata takes chakra from user... so if wielder can't deliver enough chakra to Yata to reflect incomming attack. Then Difference between amount of chakra put into attack and wielder's chakra could bypass Yata Mirror and attack the wielder with possibility of killing him.

doesn't need to generate chakra... It's a magical weapon thus is not bound by laws of chakra

 

[KCMNaruto]

doesn't need to generate chakra... It's a magical weapon thus is not bound by laws of chakra

Abscense of evidence is not proof, I know but this left field for us/readers to use this in searching for weakness as I said, so it doesn't matter wether it is magical weapon... until Kishi states that this in not bound by laws of chakra then it is, sorry.

I know that you will say, but it is obvious or Kishi forgot to wrote it. Well in first case, Kishi wrote many things about Yata to make it invicinble why not bother to states something about chakra/ from where yata takes it to reflect attack. In second case... it is as good as thinking that Kishi now regret introducing Yata Mirror in his manga or overhyping it as he has seen from many years that Itachi fanbase went out of control. Heck Kishi at this point may be annoyed that Itachi's fanbase says Yata > Juubi 's bijuudama and actually has plan that he will correct it saying that Juubi is beyound even Yata Mirror and can't be sealed by Totsuka or break through it. Same with Kamui, Kishi can simply make Juubi invunerable to even Kamui.

You know what ? This is just our assumption and wild guess, so you can't deny me speculating about it, until you bring here EVIDENCE PROVING YOUR POINT

Bolded part is fanfiction in my opinion, just pure speculation... you can't prove it so sorry I can't admit that you are right and I am wrong.

Thanks for sharing your thoughs

 

[Mellanoma]

Abscense of evidence is not proof, I know but this left field for us/readers to use this in searching for weakness as I said, so it doesn't matter wether it is magical weapon... until Kishi states that this in not bound by laws of chakra then it is, sorry.

I know that you will say, but it is obvious or Kishi forgot to wrote it. Well in first case, Kishi wrote many things about Yata to make it invicinble why not bother to states something about chakra/ from where yata takes it to reflect attack. In second case... it is as good as thinking that Kishi now regret introducing Yata Mirror in his manga or overhyping it as he has seen from many years that Itachi fanbase went out of control. Heck Kishi at this point may be annoyed that Itachi's fanbase says Yata > Juubi 's bijuudama and actually has plan that he will correct it saying that Juubi is beyound even Yata Mirror and can't be sealed by Totsuka or break through it. Same with Kamui, Kishi can simply make Juubi invunerable to even Kamui.

You know what ? This is just our assumption and wild guess, so you can't deny me speculating about it, until you bring here EVIDENCE PROVING YOUR POINT

Bolded part is fanfiction in my opinion, just pure speculation... you can't prove it so sorry I can't admit that you are right and I am wrong.

Thanks for sharing your thoughs

The only downfall to Yata is the chakra needed to hold Susanoo up. I thought that was obvious to everyone but guess not. Yata itself is invincible but holding it up through susanoo is it's only downfall

 

[ImNoOne]

The only downfall to Yata is the chakra needed to hold Susanoo up. I thought that was obvious to everyone but guess not. Yata itself is invincible but holding it up through susanoo is it's only downfall

That can't be it because Yata Mirror only happens to be equipped on Itachi's Susano'O, but the shield it self could be held by anyone or anything.

On the other hand other mystical tools, like the sage tools do require an enormous amount of chakra as they pull chakra from their user in order to work, so it would make sense the same was to be applied in Yata Mirror. Also the notion that Yata and Totsuka aren't bound by chakra rules is obnoxious and proven wrong. Itachi controls the shape of Totsuka Blade, effectively controlling it's shape and length. The only way this is explainable (how Itachi is able to do it) is by chakra control, much like Sasuke controls the shape and length of his chidori sword. So Totsuka is bound by chakra rules, and hence logically so is Yata Mirror.

 

[KCMNaruto]

The only downfall to Yata is the chakra needed to hold Susanoo up. I thought that was obvious to everyone but guess not. Yata itself is invincible.

That is true... but I meant completly different thing.

Yata Mirror need chakra/energy whatever you call it to reflect any incomming attack. Now please tell me from where Yata Mirror takes that chakra, from nothingness or what.

Let's me show you how it works:

1) Itachi has 100 points of chakra

2) Enemy put 50 points of chakra in attack

3) Yata absorb needed amount of chakra from Itachi(50 points) to repel/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 50 points of chakra.

Now if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 100 points of chakra in his attack as well then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 0 points of chakra= death

but if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 150 points of chakra into attack, then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify 100 points of chakra put incomming attack, but then remaining 50 points of chakra put into attack will bypass Yata and hit wielder directly !

That all I will say.

The mistake people are making saying that just Sussano caused Itachi to die so fast... but it is wrong as Yata Mirror takes directly same amount of chakra from user to as amount of chakra packed into attack.

Of course in battle against Sasuke with assistance of Orochimaru it is not shown that Itachi loose greater amount of chakra using Yata Mirror then his Complete Sussano but it is possible depending on amount of chakra put into attack required to reflect incomming attack.

Same logic applies to even Treasured Tools of the Sage of the Six Paths :

You must be registered for see images

^^ Even these weapons absorb great amount of chakra while being used

You must be registered for see images

^^ Raikage says: "They drain an incredible amount of chakra..."

You must be registered for see images

^^ Proof how much chakra These weapons drain from wielder.

Now considering that Sage of six paths wore on himself necklace with six red magatama

According to Japanese mythology this item was legendary among three itmes, remaining two are Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade.

If we even believe that Sage of six paths created Mirror and Blade as well.. then they could drain a lot of chakra as well to use it, that why Itachi died so fast.

Besides there is always statement: "Nothing comes for free... The great price has to be paid for use of great power"

That all I think, and it could makes sense that Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade requires chakra from wielder to work... in this case Itachi.

That can't be it because Yata Mirror only happens to be equipped on Itachi's Susano'O, but the shield it self could be held by anyone or anything.

On the other hand other mystical tools, like the sage tools do require an enormous amount of chakra as they pull chakra from their user in order to work, so it would make sense the same was to be applied in Yata Mirror. Also the notion that Yata and Totsuka aren't bound by chakra rules is obnoxious and proven wrong. Itachi controls the shape of Totsuka Blade, effectively controlling it's shape and length. The only way this is explainable (how Itachi is able to do it) is by chakra control, much like Sasuke controls the shape and length of his chidori sword. So Totsuka is bound by chakra rules, and hence logically so is Yata Mirror.

^^ I agree

 

[ImNoOne]

That is true... but I meant completly different thing.

Yata Mirror need chakra/energy whatever you call it to reflect any incomming attack. Now please tell me from where Yata Mirror takes that chakra, from nothingness or what.

Let's me show you how it works:

1) Itachi has 100 points of chakra

2) Enemy put 50 points of chakra in attack

3) Yata absorb needed amount of chakra from Itachi(50 points) to repel/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 50 points of chakra.

Now if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 100 points of chakra in his attack as well then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 0 points of chakra= death

but if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 150 points of chakra into attack, then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify 100 points of chakra put incomming attack, but then remaining 50 points of chakra put into attack will bypass Yata and hit wielder directly !

That all I will say.

The mistake people are making saying that just Sussano caused Itachi to die so fast... but it is wrong as Yata Mirror takes directly same amount of chakra from user to as amount of chakra packed into attack.

Of course in battle against Sasuke with assistance of Orochimaru it is not shown that Itachi loose greater amount of chakra using Yata Mirror then his Complete Sussano but it is possible depending on amount of chakra put into attack required to reflect incomming attack.

Same logic applies to even Treasured Tools of the Sage of the Six Paths :

You must be registered for see images

^^ Even these weapons absorb great amount of chakra while being used

You must be registered for see images

^^ Raikage says: "They drain an incredible amount of chakra..."

You must be registered for see images

^^ Proof how much chakra These weapons drain from wielder.

Now considering that Sage of six paths wore on himself necklace with six red magatama

According to Japanese mythology this item was legendary among three itmes, remaining two are Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade.

If we even believe that Sage of six paths created Mirror and Blade as well.. then they could drain a lot of chakra as well to use it, that why Itachi died so fast.

Besides there is always statement: "Nothing comes for free... The great price has to be paid for use of great power"

That all I think, and it could makes sense that Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade requires chakra from wielder to work... in this case Itachi.



^^ I agree

Basically what I said, congratz on digging the scans.

 

[Mellanoma]

That is true... but I meant completly different thing.

Yata Mirror need chakra/energy whatever you call it to reflect any incomming attack. Now please tell me from where Yata Mirror takes that chakra, from nothingness or what.

Let's me show you how it works:

1) Itachi has 100 points of chakra

2) Enemy put 50 points of chakra in attack

3) Yata absorb needed amount of chakra from Itachi(50 points) to repel/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 50 points of chakra.

Now if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 100 points of chakra in his attack as well then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify incomming attack then left Itachi with 0 points of chakra= death

but if Itachi has 100 points of chakra and Enemy put 150 points of chakra into attack, then

Yata Mirror takes all chakra(needed amount of chakra) from Itachi to reflect/nulify 100 points of chakra put incomming attack, but then remaining 50 points of chakra put into attack will bypass Yata and hit wielder directly !

That all I will say.

The mistake people are making saying that just Sussano caused Itachi to die so fast... but it is wrong as Yata Mirror takes directly same amount of chakra from user to as amount of chakra packed into attack.

Of course in battle against Sasuke with assistance of Orochimaru it is not shown that Itachi loose greater amount of chakra using Yata Mirror then his Complete Sussano but it is possible depending on amount of chakra put into attack required to reflect incomming attack.

Same logic applies to even Treasured Tools of the Sage of the Six Paths :

You must be registered for see images

^^ Even these weapons absorb great amount of chakra while being used

You must be registered for see images

^^ Raikage says: "They drain an incredible amount of chakra..."

You must be registered for see images

^^ Proof how much chakra These weapons drain from wielder.

Now considering that Sage of six paths wore on himself necklace with six red magatama

According to Japanese mythology this item was legendary among three itmes, remaining two are Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade.

If we even believe that Sage of six paths created Mirror and Blade as well.. then they could drain a lot of chakra as well to use it, that why Itachi died so fast.

Besides there is always statement: "Nothing comes for free... The great price has to be paid for use of great power"

That all I think, and it could makes sense that Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade requires chakra from wielder to work... in this case Itachi.



^^ I agree

Makes sense what you are stating but the manga itself triumphs your theory.. If Yata and totsuka truly consume chakra then Itachi should not have been able to put them up at his point of death.

Also you say your stating an opinion yet you seem to be forcing your own "Personal theory and assumption that goes against the manga and databook" on how you feel Yata mirror works. Just because you dont think it's right that Yata mirror can block attacks without any consequence to the user. Clearly the Manga and Databook are right and you are definitely wrong. But please continue to argue cause these are not my words just simply things im stating from Kishi manga and the Databook.

Example: Shukaku's Sand blocks for Gaara without draining gaara at all. The only chakra gaara used was for controlling sand and making chakra. It just so happens that Yata mirror has no weakness and has no form so it can be whatever it needs whenever it needs

FYI: Totsuka and Yata have nothing to do with the Sage

 

[KCMNaruto]

Makes sense what you are stating but the manga itself triumphs your theory.. If Yata and totsuka truly consume chakra then Itachi should not have been able to put them up at his point of death.

Also you say your stating an opinion yet you seem to be forcing your own "Personal theory and assumption that goes against the manga and databook" on how you feel Yata mirror works. Just because you dont think it's right that Yata mirror can block attacks without any consequence to the user. Clearly the Manga and Databook are right and you are definitely wrong. But please continue to argue cause these are not my words just simply things im stating from Kishi manga and the Databook.

Example: Shukaku's Sand blocks for Gaara without draining gaara at all. The only chakra gaara used was for controlling sand and making chakra. It just so happens that Yata mirror has no weakness and has no form so it can be whatever it needs whenever it needs

FYI: Totsuka and Yata have nothing to do with the Sage

Well I am not arguing with manga, nor with Kishi because I don't try to contradict The magna or the databook statements.

I only used things not covered by Databook or the manga concerning Yata Mirorr and Totsuka Blade to explore POSSIBLE weakness, NOT CERTAIN BUT POSSIBLE. That right, I am not saying it has to be as I said but this is still possible until Kishi cover these things about Yata and Totsuka proving me wrong or right, that all I am saying right now.

The bolded part is completly no completly proof as we don't know if Itachi held back some chakra behind... considering that he planned to deal with Orochimaru he would still held back quite big amount of chakra..., so this is not proof that he shouldn't be able to put them up at this point and would die. No, it is pure speculation without any prove to it.

Why, because Itachi even after using Yata Miror and Totsuka Blade was able to use Incomplete Sussano or even Full skeleton form for some time..., so it only prove otherwise that Itachi still has some chakra in himself...

Even Obito confirmed that Itachi held back in his fight against Sasuke, but it is up to us to believe that contain chakra amount as well or no.

I am not forcing my opinion on ANYONE... I am only using uncovered by Kishi's aspects to explore possible weakness to them.

Idk if these weapons have anything common with The Sage... According to Japanese mythology there is high chance for that to happen, but it depens if Kishi follows very close Japanese mythology or no.

 

[AGoodBoy]

So much incorrect bs. Only 1 point(totsuka, 2) was correct. Everything else is desperate drivel by a narutard who can't understand eEnglish and wants to beat itachi through invincibility.

I'm not even going to entertain you by giving you the actual weaknesses of yata and totsuka.

 

[KCMNaruto]

So much incorrect bs. Only 1 point(totsuka, 2) was correct. Everything else is desperate drivel by a narutard who can't understand eEnglish and wants to beat itachi through invincibility.

I'm not even going to entertain you by giving you the actual weaknesses of yata and totsuka.

Then I don't care about your opinion, you are not Kishi, so I don't care =D

Playing to be smart why can't prove someone wrong, really worthy attention

 

[Mellanoma]

Well I am not arguing with manga, nor with Kishi because I don't try to contradict The magna or the databook statements.

I only used things not covered by Databook or the manga concerning Yata Mirorr and Totsuka Blade to explore POSSIBLE weakness, NOT CERTAIN BUT POSSIBLE. That right, I am not saying it has to be as I said but this is still possible until Kishi cover these things about Yata and Totsuka proving me wrong or right, that all I am saying right now.

The bolded part is completly no completly proof as we don't know if Itachi held back some chakra behind... considering that he planned to deal with Orochimaru he would still held back quite big amount of chakra..., so this is not proof that he shouldn't be able to put them up at this point and would die. No, it is pure speculation without any prove to it.

Why, because Itachi even after using Yata Miror and Totsuka Blade was able to use Incomplete Sussano or even Full skeleton form for some time..., so it only prove otherwise that Itachi still has some chakra in himself...

Even Obito confirmed that Itachi held back in his fight against Sasuke, but it is up to us to believe that contain chakra amount as well or no.

I am not forcing my opinion on ANYONE... I am only using uncovered by Kishi's aspects to explore possible weakness to them.

Idk if these weapons have anything common with The Sage... According to Japanese mythology there is high chance for that to happen, but it depens if Kishi follows very close Japanese mythology or no.

CONCLUSION ​

• Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade are indestructable and invincible but wielder can be defeated still
  [*] Possible ways to bypass Yata Mirror:
  1) Attack from the back or the side
  2) Attack it with two different attacks at the same time... or use KKG, KKT or simplu Ying-Yang release
  3) If Attack contain more chakra then wielder of Yata then wielder's lack of chakra will be left with attack and will hit Wielder
  4) The Shield can be taken away...
  [*] Possible ways to not be defeated by Totsuka Blade
  1) Breaking Genjutsu, Dream Word and release yourself
  2) If Blade can't pierce you then you can avoid being sealed
  3) Stopping/ breaking sealing technique with which Blade is enchanted with so anty sealing techinique
  4) The Blade can be taken away
• I AM NOT ITACHI's HATER NOR I AM YATA MIRROR OR TOTSUKA BLADE's HATER
• Everything created by Kishimoto has some weakness, way to avoid/defeat it so Yata and Totsuka can be too.
• Sage of six paths wielding Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade or Itachi as Juubi Jinchurki could be truelly invincible...

Thanks for reading !
Please share your thoughts with me

Yata

1) Databook states Yata is shapeless and formless meaning it can become whatever it needs to so ALL attacks lose meaning and are blocked.

2)This is disproven in the manga and databook cause in the manga Yata blocked 3 different things simultaneously (Metal Kunai, Fire from explosion, and the kinetic explosion force itself)

3) considering it blocked Kirin which was a nature energy attack that hit from all directions. Also once again Yata is not a chakra based entity its a magical/ spiritual entity. Chakra should not apply to it Databook says blocks ALL

4) Not even going to respond to this especially since it's attached to his susanoo and blocks ALL

Totsuka

1) Release yourself from totsuka? like I said Chakra does not apply to totsuka and yata since there spiritual weapons. Plus it is a "Seal" that puts you in a dream like state.

2) The blade not piercing you seems semi legit but the sword seems to be able to become solid and intangible considering each person it pierced received no physical damage.

3) It's true you can break a sealing technique but like the databook states it's a spiritual weapon and chakra fundamentals don't apply otherwise Nagato could have absorbed totsuka or shinra tensei it.

4) LOL again considering it's attached to susanoo which is completely in control by the user. Maybe if it was not wielded by susanoo it might be able to be taken but since it's attached it can't be taken.


All the information you needed to know was in the manga and databook you seem to be fixated on the WHY instead of just taking it for what it is. Nothing wrong with that at all btw

I had many questions regarding FTG but it seems its an actual jutsu that use chakra yet "Shits" on all chakra consumption fundamentals lol

 

[AGoodBoy]

Stop with the yata needs chakra nonsense.
Kusanagi, samehade and any of the other seven swordsmen tools need no chakra but have special properties.
Madaras fan needs no chakra but reflects attacks.

Yata is a spiritual shield. It's just a shield. Shield don't take chakra to hold up. Yata just happens to be a special type of shield that reacts to attacks own its own without user input. Same way samehade can run to an opponent and attack of its own accord.

If this chakra shit were true, itachi would have died as soon as he used yata since his chakra was already low

 

[AGoodBoy]

Then I don't care about your opinion, you are not Kishi, so I don't care =D

Playing to be smart why can't prove someone wrong, really worthy attention

Because the proof of you being incorrect is literally among your evidence. Your stupidity is amusing bro