Theirs a reason why Madara keeps saying that Hashirama....

[Anorien16]

Kyuubi would have barely been a factor in that fight since hashirama can supress him


Hashirama >= Ems Madara
Hashirama <<<<< Edo Madara


It's as simple as that, I have no idea wtf your other comparisons are about so I won't comment on them




You need to read... Are you mad? There are ninjas in this generation who lived in the time with tobirama and hashirama.. danzo and the eleders, and undoubtedly any old villagers..

We are talking about the PAST, in hiruzen's Prime... Tobirama had only died a few years ago, and hashirama a year or so before that.... In hiruzen's ERA

aka when Sakumo hatake etc lived, There would have been jonins etc who would have see them both just like Hiruzen..
And even then they stated he was stronger..

We got a genius here!!!!!!!!! Suppressing Kuybi is no factor!!!!!!!!!! Hashi wld just say 'sit boy' and Kurama wld do so, he does not have to build supression pillers and concentrate on Kurama and make himself open for attacks from by Madara!!!!!!!!

Also Madara who knows Hashi's powers better than u, says in 'present' tense that the only one who can match powers with him is Hashirama. Then who r u to say otherwise?

Dont u read or lack common sense?
Only people who saw Hashirama and Tobirama in Hizune's prime saw a old Hashirama (He didnt seem old but shuold be really old) and a old Tobirama . . . . and all of them would be old men like Hizune when Ororchi attacked. And like i said young people dont belive old men's tales and say as they see and never saw a Hashirama or Tobirama in his prime.

Haha this is just full of false information.

Moving on. It seems some people are forgetting an interesting detail from Hashirama's feat:

Spoiler

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Yes. Hashirama did not simply remove the Kyuubi from Madara's possession. He gained control and in order to better aid him.... This goes handlely with the simple logic that if EMS Madara and Shodaime had battles which ended with stalemates prior to VOTE, how can Shodaime then be > EMS Madara + Kyuubi? This is something you need to think about. Considering EMS Madara survived VOTE it makes you wonder if Hashirama was truley the victor. I'm not disputing Shodaime's superiority over EMS Madara but some people seem to think there was nothing fishy about that fight, when there clearly was.

1. Mito didnt help Hashirama in the fight, as the only scene from their fight didnt have Mito in it. Also note the fact, the statement "durring battle he gained control of kuybi and in order to better aid him had his wife seal the beast in her" means that after the battle kyubi was no use to him roaming free and blowing up things so he had Mito become a jink. If not explain how mito cld have become a jink and instantly master its powers and 'aided' hashi in battle? I new jink usually goes on a rampage.

2. Hashi probably cant control Kurama as mokuton can only supress the biju's chakra (see:

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) while it is MS that can control Kurama (see:

You must be registered for see links

). Also note that Madara and Hashi fought a lot of times before the battle at the valley of the end, so their powers wont be that much of a secret (Not to two of them). Then why wld Madara bring Kurama to battle if he knew Hashi could control it better that him? Dont say to enjoy being set kurama on himself.

Madara is only the 2nd sage of six paths after implanting hashi's dna, aka edo madara, And as i've stressed so much already

Hashirama cannot beat EDO madara,

"There aren't really any shinobi around on his level anymore"

Meaning there were shinobi's around on his leveL , Meaning your boy isn't looking to special now if there was a bunch of other "hashirama " level shinobis walking around huh?

Hasi may not be able to beat Edo Madara, but Madara himself said Hashi is only one who can put up a considerable fight to him. madara said that from experience, where Kabuto has never seen any Hashi level shinobi.
Also if there were Hashi level shinobi they all be > EMS Madara+Kurama level shinobi . . . . Great u just need to find, who can match them.

 

[Owarij]

^ Idiot, there was never any old hashirama or tobirama... they both died In their prime in wars
/sigh

Hashirama died shortly after his fight with madara


Tobirama died shortly after that...

 

[siyo]

hashirama>hiruzen

hiruzens hype-lets start out with hiruzens hype. he was stated to be the strongest kage, the professor, and mastered all of konohas jutsu at one point.

I liked the way you danced around the statement


I don’t need anything else- strongest Hokage. As far as I can tell, Hashirama came before Hiruzen, which means he is included in said hype. Anything else is pure speculation… It was specifically mentioned, several times, that Hiruzen surpassed his predecessors, including Hashirama. This is canon, and, you trying put actual meaning behind to the myth comments well, its funny- or trying to suggest it somehow changes what Kishi wrote .

You also forgot to mention the fact that Hiruzen, in his prime, possessed the moniker God of Shinobi, which means his peers regarded him as the second coming of S06P.This wasn’t a myth, but a testament to his skills and intelligence during battle. He was also the strongest Kage in his prime (includes Onoki, Third Raikage, etc.), strongest Kage at the time of his death, and he received all fives in anything not affected by age.

He also participated in three wars, won two as Leader, and had the longest reign of any Hokage. He was also trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama which should indicate that he knew their respective abilities quite well(thus counter them) yet he was confident that he could defeat them both, and he did, and, generally speaking, the youth surpasses the old and it is quite weird if a prodigy didn’t surpass his teachers when he had them both to guide him.

We don’t stop believing the Manga/databook because an element, character statement, feat, etc, is retconned; no we limit it to the things that changed.Also outdated databooks/part 1 Naruto are still canon.

hashiramas hype- now for hashiramas hype. hashiramas strength was stated to be a myth, a fairy tail like the sage of six paths. he was also called the strongest shinobi. it was also stated that hashiramas might was so vast that no shinobi from the current era could stand up to his power. that means that hashirama>every other shinobi except edo madara.

myth
   [mith] Show IPA
noun
1.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning somebeing or hero or event, with or without a determinable basisof fact or a natural explanation, especially one that isconcerned with deities or demigods and explains somepractice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2.
stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3.
any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the eventis pure myth.
4.
an imaginary or fictitious thing or person.
5.
an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.

fairy tale
 
noun
1.
a story, usually for children, about elves, hobgoblins,dragons, fairies, or other magical creatures.
2.
an incredible or misleading statement, account, or belief: Hisstory of being a millionaire is just a fairy tale.

First of all, Kabuto stated there are other people who are stronger than the current Gokage, other than Hashirama, and the word Myth is loaded with negative connotations( as shown above) since it is often misleading hype/statements that are later disproven.I don't need to tell you about word of mouth and all that. In any case we, as readers, don’t know what exactly he was capable off, but the Naruto people knew enough to proclaim Hiruzen the strongest.
Hiruzen was also present when Iruka made his statement and, almost, knocked Iruka out for speaking in past tense.


Hiruzen> Hashirama.

 

[RockLee X Zabuza]

Indeed, that's why I think Hashirama had Sage mode. If you want to know more go to this thread ->

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but what would his sage mode be? maybe a tree god lol
seriously tho...

 

[TheSages456]

Haha this is just full of false information.

Moving on. It seems some people are forgetting an interesting detail from Hashirama's feat:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Yes. Hashirama did not simply remove the Kyuubi from Madara's possession. He gained control and in order to better aid him.... This goes handlely with the simple logic that if EMS Madara and Shodaime had battles which ended with stalemates prior to VOTE, how can Shodaime then be > EMS Madara + Kyuubi? This is something you need to think about. Considering EMS Madara survived VOTE it makes you wonder if Hashirama was truley the victor. I'm not disputing Shodaime's superiority over EMS Madara but some people seem to think there was nothing fishy about that fight, when there clearly was.

wrong,wrong,wrong.
kurama was sealed after the fight:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

you couldnt use common sense to deduce that hashirama couldve gotten stronger as well between the senju, uchiha battles and his VOTE fight with madara.


everything i said in my recent post is from the manga.

 

[Ryuu..]

We got a genius here!!!!!!!!! Suppressing Kuybi is no factor!!!!!!!!!! Hashi wld just say 'sit boy' and Kurama wld do so, he does not have to build supression pillers and concentrate on Kurama and make himself open for attacks from by Madara!!!!!!!!

Also Madara who knows Hashi's powers better than u, says in 'present' tense that the only one who can match powers with him is Hashirama. Then who r u to say otherwise?

Dont u read or lack common sense?
Only people who saw Hashirama and Tobirama in Hizune's prime saw a old Hashirama (He didnt seem old but shuold be really old) and a old Tobirama . . . . and all of them would be old men like Hizune when Ororchi attacked. And like i said young people dont belive old men's tales and say as they see and never saw a Hashirama or Tobirama in his prime.




1. Mito didnt help Hashirama in the fight, as the only scene from their fight didnt have Mito in it. Also note the fact, the statement "durring battle he gained control of kuybi and in order to better aid him had his wife seal the beast in her" means that after the battle kyubi was no use to him roaming free and blowing up things so he had Mito become a jink. If not explain how mito cld have become a jink and instantly master its powers and 'aided' hashi in battle? I new jink usually goes on a rampage.

2. Hashi probably cant control Kurama as mokuton can only supress the biju's chakra (see:

You must be registered for see links

) while it is MS that can control Kurama (see:

You must be registered for see links

). Also note that Madara and Hashi fought a lot of times before the battle at the valley of the end, so their powers wont be that much of a secret (Not to two of them). Then why wld Madara bring Kurama to battle if he knew Hashi could control it better that him? Dont say to enjoy being set kurama on himself.

Clearly Shodaime gained control of the Kyuubi, used it to aid himself against Madara and then had Mito seal it inside of her.

He. Gained. Control. Not 'he supressed'. The manga has spoken.

 

[Οdin]

Haha this is just full of false information.

Moving on. It seems some people are forgetting an interesting detail from Hashirama's feat:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Yes. Hashirama did not simply remove the Kyuubi from Madara's possession. He gained control and in order to better aid him.... This goes handlely with the simple logic that if EMS Madara and Shodaime had battles which ended with stalemates prior to VOTE, how can Shodaime then be > EMS Madara + Kyuubi? This is something you need to think about. Considering EMS Madara survived VOTE it makes you wonder if Hashirama was truley the victor. I'm not disputing Shodaime's superiority over EMS Madara but some people seem to think there was nothing fishy about that fight, when there clearly was.

You misunderstood what that box stated. If you read carefully, it states that to better aid Hashirama, Mito sealed Kurama and became its first jinchuriki. It's not saying that Hashirama used Kurama to his advantage. It's saying that she helped him by removing Kurama out of the equation thus, giving Hashirama a fighting chance.

 

[Helikido]

Well i've already shat on your hype argument so we can move on from that. Feats? Questionnable.

Using assumpitions and shitting on someone with assumptions and over exaggeration of ones power is not a valid argument...okay?

 

[Ryuu..]

wrong,wrong,wrong.
kurama was sealed after the fight:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

you couldnt use common sense to deduce that hashirama couldve gotten stronger as well between the senju, uchiha battles and his VOTE fight with madara.


everything i said in my recent post is from the manga.

Fail, because my point was exactly that he used the Kyuubi to fight in the battle. The Jinchuuriki part was irrelevant.

 

[Helikido]

Fail, because my point was exactly that he used the Kyuubi to fight in the battle. The Jinchuuriki part was irrelevant.

I don't even think he even had to deal with the kyuubi... remember he had other bijuus in his posetion...

 

[Ryuu..]

You misunderstood what that box stated. If you read carefully, it states that to better aid Hashirama, Mito sealed Kurama and becamse its first jinchuriki. It's not saying that Hashirama used Kurama to his advantage. It's saying that she helped him by removing Kurama out of the equation thus, giving Hashirama a fighting chance.

See post 106.

Using assumpitions and shitting on someone with assumptions and over exaggeration of ones power is not a valid argument...okay?

Nagato was called the 3rd Sage of 6 Paths. Don't type, especially when you're incorrect.

 

[Lordlloyd7]

Because hashi was the strongest shinobi EVER! DAMNIT!

 

[Anorien16]

^ Idiot, there was never any old hashirama or tobirama... they both died In their prime in wars
/sigh

Hashirama died shortly after his fight with madara


Tobirama died shortly after that...

Madara died young right?

 

[Helikido]

Because hashi was the strongest shinobi EVER! DAMNIT!

Manga has stated that over and over yet the top debaters can't get shit through their heads.....

 

[siyo]

Because hashi was the strongest shinobi EVER! DAMNIT!

He might just be in the near future, but not right now.

 

[Owarij]

Madara died young right?

Madara died at 80 + because he lived after his fight with hashirama



Hashirama, according to databooks, died shortly after his fight with madara, aka when konoha was founded, in some war


, Tobirama became hokage, and shortly after that died in war as well, Then hiruzen held the title

Manga has stated that over and over yet the top debaters can't get shit through their heads.....

The manga never stated that

 

[TheSages456]

I liked the way you danced around the statement


I don’t need anything else- strongest Hokage. As far as I can tell, Hashirama came before Hiruzen, which means he is included in said hype. Anything else is pure speculation… It was specifically mentioned, several times, that Hiruzen surpassed his predecessors, including Hashirama. This is canon, and, you trying put actual meaning behind to the myth comments are funny- or trying to suggest it somehow changes what Kishi wrote .

You also forgot to mention the fact that Hiruzen, in his prime, possessed the moniker God of Shinobi, which means his peers regarded him as the second coming of S06P.This wasn’t a myth, but a testament to his skills and intelligence during battle. He was also the strongest Kage in his prime (includes Onoki, Third Raikage, etc.), strongest Kage at the time of his death, and he received all fives in anything not affected by age.

He also participated in three wars, won two as Leader, and had the longest reign of any Hokage. He was also trained by both Hashirama and Tobirama which should indicate that he knew their respective abilities quite well(thus counter them) yet he was confident that he could defeat them both, and he did, and, generally speaking, the youth surpasses the old and it is quite weird if a prodigy didn’t surpass his teachers when he had them both to guide him.

We don’t stop believing the Manga/databook because an element, character statement, feat, etc, is retconned; no we limit it to the things that changed.Also outdated databooks/part 1 Naruto are still canon.











First of all, Kabuto stated there are other people who are stronger than the current Gokage, other than Hashirama, and the word Myth is loaded with negative connotations( as shown above) since it is often misleading hype/statements that are later disproven.I don't need to tell you about word of mouth and all that. In any case we, as readers, don’t know what exactly he was capable off, but the Naruto people knew enough to proclaim Hiruzen the strongest.
Hiruzen was also present when Iruka made his statement and, almost, knocked Iruka out for speaking in past tense.


Hiruzen> Hashirama.

i know all about hiruzens hype. he was not known as the second coming of the sage but i guess hiruzen fanboys say anything to make their favorite character look good.

hashiramas power was a myth which means that people didnt believe in his strength. when people heard of his strength they described it as a myth becuase they didnt think he could be so strong.

as for the databooks, i guess you still believe that orochimaru invented edo tensei and that naruto and sakura are equals.

 

[Anorien16]

Clearly Shodaime gained control of the Kyuubi, used it to aid himself against Madara and then had Mito seal it inside of her.

He. Gained. Control. Not 'he supressed'. The manga has spoken.

Gained control may mean take control back from Madara . . . . . . Also Suggest why MS control didnt work . . . . . . . .

The only explanation of gaining control depite the MS Kurama control mechanism is considering the fact that Hashi Had some other secrets powers which some people dont acknowledge.

 

[TrollingSage]

was onooki in the same village with hashirama or madara? did they fight together in wars?

Good

Contradicting yaself? Tobirama didnt believe hashi's power to be a fairytale. The rest did. Why would hashi show them an equivalent power like Perfect susano to villagers when there are no worthy opponent? Arrogant madara didnt show his did he?
Point is that the village were not oblivious to hashi's power, they believed it to be a fairytale. How, well tobirama or hashi bodyguards(who will witness in person) might tell their grandson and the story will circulate but the new gen wont believe.

 

[Οdin]

See post 106.



Nagato was called the 3rd Sage of 6 Paths. Don't type, especially when you're incorrect.

You think you know what it says, but you don't. When that fight began the one that had control over Kurama was Madara. But because Hashirama has the ability to control Bijuu, he removed Madara's control over Kurama and gained it himself. It only states that he took control over Kurama. Never does it say that he used Kurama to his advantage.

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