The source of Susanoo (Basically for people moaning about blind Madara using Susanoo)

[cptenn94]

and this isn't one of them
Kishi wouldn't make madara do susano'o without any reason, kishi knows he has no eyes and knows what he was doing this chapter

I agree. However if he uses something like tsukyomi, or amatersu(which are truely eye powers(cause the person eyes to bleed etc) From my knowledge susanoo is fueled directly from the body.(which is why sasuke complained about all the cells in his body hurting)

I agree that kishi is not that careless to let madara use susanoo without eyes. He couldve picked something different, instead(that is less confuseing) to use in that situation. He should at least give a explanation, or have a really good 4th databook.

 

[Anorien16]

Better idea: Let's have him run straight at the Bijuu's and get ping ponged for half the chapter instead of using Flower Tree World , Deep Forest Emergence , Wood Dragon , Shinnsenju or a combination of all of these .

Like waiting would have made the Biju wait till Zetsu arrived... offense can be used densively when conflict inevitable (and Madara IS infinitely arrogant, recently lost the previlage of a immortal body and infinite chakra soooo ...) ..... Also lets waste Chakra on techs that 2-3 Biju can easily handle (Also Madara for the first time absorbed SM chakra .... you expect him to use Shinnsenju? and yet you have the nerve of talking about logic and asspulls?) when more power may be needed in the sealing Ritual and handling the huge ass tree ....

 

[Umari Senju]

It's not speculation. The Uchiha's sharingan power lies in the brain, not the eyes.

and yet I haven't heard one Uchiha refer to their powers as blessed brain.

Sasuke doesn't say this brain of mine sees all.

Dojutsu doesn't translate to brain technique.

 

[Xāvî1]

Eyes aren't required for susanoo, well you unlock them by having two mangekyo's, but its not promised. So the side effects came from the body...not the eyes.

Amaterasu is the eye move of the MS, and the effect is blindness and blood :3

I second this

 

[Joon]

More or less true ....




Note that Madara used two things .... Chakra absorbtion that is the trademark of Preta Path (Even Hiruzen exclaimed at that, and you think Kishi himself didnt notice? .... I think you guys will be screaming asspull in the next weeks, when Kishi explains it) and I think I clearly explained why Susanoo may not be a power connected directly to the eyes.



Well I think your not comprehending the matter ..... Susanoo ITSELF IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THE USER'S TRANSFORMED CHAKRA ... it is seemingly indicated that its independent of the status of the eyes so why being blind or half blind would matter when the point of origin DOES NOT like in the eyes?



Possible perhaps .... But how would proximity with Sasuke give someone abilities? Care to explain with any proper evidence?

I was pulling shit out of my ass. I do not know WTF I was talking about. >_>

Bold. Not really.

Bold 2. I do not care. :|

Bold 3. I stop comprehending.

Bold 4. ....Or Madara took them....

I am just bullshiting - trying to fine a solution that better suit me.

 

[BlinkST]

Madara is using a reverse-Gedo(Outer path). He's channeling his Rinnegan power from Obito into his own body, as opposed to what Nagato had been doing (Channeling his power into 6 different bodies).

 

[cptenn94]

See with all these theories none of them explain why Sasuke's Susanno was fading when he was going blind, but Madara's was fine with no eyes...If anyone can give a legit explanation then I will accept the theory.

His susanoo was fadeing because he was getting weak.(running out of chakra) He himself had said earlier something like "ahh my whole body is in agony from the strain of useing susanoo".

Itachi had really bad eyesight, but his ms techs were still top grade. Eyesight on ms, has nothing to do with strength of the technique.

Full chakra nearly blind sasuke could still produce the same size amatersu or susanoo, as a Full chakra Perfect eyesight sasuke.

Basically the only thing eyesight itself(as in you still have the eyes, but your blind) is that you cant aim your techniques.

Izanagi and izanami are different, as they actually seal off the eye.(permanetly)


Now all of this is more or less theory, as we dont have a databook to truly back up this, but the manga suggests this.


(so pretend you are a master martial artist. Your kicks and punches are very strong. But one day you have a accident and get blind. Are your punches and kicks any weaker because of your blindness? No. You simply cannot aim your punches and kicks. They still have the same power behind them though. This is the same with ms users.

 

[Anorien16]

I was pulling shit out of my ass. I do not know WTF I was talking about. >_>

So basically you and your supporters are just asspull debaters who have no idea what you are talking about? .... at least your honest. Props for that

Bold. Not really.

Only other possibility is Mokuton but we didnt see any woody part .... Perhaps SM but insufficient data regarding that.

Bold 2. I do not care. :|

So ..... Is Post counts or bandwagon rep+ or both ur purpose?

Bold 3. I stop comprehending.

Your lucky I am not a Uchiha ....

Bold 4. ....Or Madara took them....

I can see only 3 bolds ...

I am just bullshiting - trying to fine a solution that better suit me.

I like your honesty .... most people would have pretended to be a psuedo intellectuals and never admitted that. Rep+ for that.

So basically it depends on mental state, focus - susanno, distraction/pain - no susanno. ok

Actually with out focus any techs can fail (Off topic but remember how Lee's loss of focus for a single second cost him dearly?), but yes its proven emotional state does empower the Susanoo, so the converse is also possible .....

Also do you remember Sasuke complaining that his every cell seemed to hurt when he overused Susanoo? (But Amaterasu and Tsukimoy caused bleeding from the eye) that alone speaks loads about which techs are related to the eyes and what are not.

Madara is using a reverse-Gedo(Outer path). He's channeling his Rinnegan power from Obito into his own body, as opposed to what Nagato had been doing (Channeling his power into 6 different bodies).

Interesting ... Is there a thread about it?

 

[Umari Senju]

Madara is using a reverse-Gedo(Outer path). He's channeling his Rinnegan power from Obito into his own body, as opposed to what Nagato had been doing (Channeling his power into 6 different bodies).

This Here^ This was my line of thinking. I don't think you can just use Susanoo whenever after it's activation or Sasuke would be doing it. I think Madara is still connected to the Gedo Statue or through Black Zetsu or Obito somehow thanks to Hashi's cell or more to the point...The Rinnegan.

I think it's a trait from its "Shared Vision" ability or something along those line. Whatever the case BS or no. I have a feeling it was intentionally done. I also feel Kishi will go into why he can do it. At the same time though I feel Kishi should have, at least had Gaara or someone make a comment as to why he is using Susanoo with no eyes.

I was pulling shit out of my ass. I do not know WTF I was talking about. >_>

Bold. Not really.

Bold 2. I do not care. :|

Bold 3. I stop comprehending.

Bold 4. ....Or Madara took them....

I am just bullshiting - trying to fine a solution that better suit me.

XD This guy I like! Your comments get my chuckling." XD

 

[SanjiNL]

and yet I haven't heard one Uchiha refer to their powers as blessed brain.

Sasuke doesn't say this brain of mine sees all.

Dojutsu doesn't translate to brain technique.

Maybe because their eyes are more commonly known? You don't go around telling secrets about your Dojutsu to everyone.

Maybe because Sasuke didn't know until Tobirama told him?

Same: Maybe because their eyes are more commonly known? You don't go around telling secrets about your Dojutsu to everyone.

 

[cptenn94]

Well makes sense, nice explanation. The martial artist has more to do with muscle memory but still gj.

Not exactly. Muscle memory is more about the technique, than the strength.
The thing i was getting at with the martial artist, is if he punched with a force of 50 lb, before he was blind, after he was blind he can still punch for 50 lb. The eyesight does not affect his strength/ power, just aim. If he has good muscle memory, then he can still do his forms and stuff blind.

But im glad you liked the explanation. Nothing is confirmed, I just prefer to try to think of something logically before jumping and whineing about "ohh thats a plot hole" or "that makes no sense". Kishi has been quite consistant with his physics in the Narutoverse. Generally if something doesnt make sense, it hasnt been explained yet(and will be explained) or all you need to explain it, is already there.

 

[BlinkST]

Izanagi and izanami are different, as they actually seal off the eye.(permanently)

So was the Kaleidoscope Sharingan.

#385
15p
万華鏡写輪眼…
Itachi: Mangekyou Sharingan...

この眼は特別…
Itachi: This eye is special...

開眼したその時から　その眼は闇へと向かう
Itachi: From the moment you awaken it, it brings you closer and closer to darkness

使えば使うほど封印されていく
Itachi: The more you use it, the more it becomes sealed

どういうことだ？
Sasuke: What do you mean?

万華鏡はいずれ光を失う
Itachi: Mangekyou will someday lose its light

#386
さっき話したな…　この眼は特別だと
Itachi: As I told you, this eye is special.

使えば使うほど封印され　行き着く先は全くの闇
Itachi: The more you use it, the more it becomes sealed, and the end of the road is utter darkness.

#385
15
Itachi: The Mangekyou Sharingan... // These eyes are special.
Sasuke: .........?
Itachi: Once they have been awakened, they begin their walk down the path to darkness. // The more they are used, the further they seal themselves away.
Sasuke: What are you getting at?
Itachi: The Mangekyou will one day be lost to the light.

#386
７
Itachi: However... something strange started to happen to Madara's healthy body. // I told you already of the unique nature of these eyes... // The more they are used, the further they seal themselves, moving ever closer towards inescapable darkness.

It's not meant to be taken literally. I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimoto introduces Izanagi via the eternal eyes.

 

[Avani]

People forget - It's a cartoon. At the end of the day it's just a manga and all techs are made up. Madara can use it without MS being activated at the same time it seems and that's that. It's not even the first time he did it.;

He was using Susano in rinnegan mode:

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See ^.

Madara is not even normal Sharingan user and able to access powers at another level ATM. Not really something people should be losing their sleep over but for some reason when reading Naruto people expect more than they expect in a si-fi even.

 

[Aya San]

Using it with Rinnegan is possible since it's the next level of EMS. Using susanoo while blind is totally a different case

 

[Anorien16]

Using it with Rinnegan is possible since it's the next level of EMS. Using susanoo while blind is totally a different case

Yet Rinnegan Madara had to shift to EMS to cast a Genjutsu on A? ..... So bad that the next stage of EMS can not cast an simple gentjutsu ....

Spoiler

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[Etari]

Join us next week when Rock Lee uses Leaf Whirlwind without having any legs .

I've seen this comment somewhere on YouTube.
Give credits.

 

[BlinkST]

Yet Rinnegan Madara had to shift to EMS to cast a Genjutsu on A? ..... So bad that the next stage of EMS can not cast an simple gentjutsu ....

Spoiler

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That was one of the clones. We don't know if they were made with the Rinnegan.

 

[Aya San]

Yet Rinnegan Madara had to shift to EMS to cast a Genjutsu on A? ..... So bad that the next stage of EMS can not cast an simple gentjutsu ....

Spoiler

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That was one of the clones. We don't know if they were made with the Rinnegan.

What he said

 

[Anorien16]

That was one of the clones. We don't know if they were made with the Rinnegan.

So clones are made in such a way that they may not resemble the Origina right? .... yet Madara created an wood clone (the one Gokage sealed, and Madara penetrated Tsunade for it) had the Rinnegan ....

 

[BlinkST]

So clones are made in such a way that they may not resemble the Origina right?

Yes, due to special circumstances. Naruto for example, in BM, can make regular clones. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Madara can't have 25 wood clones with enough chakra to use the Rinnegan, and still have enough chakra for himself.

.... yet Madara created an wood clone (the one Gokage sealed, and Madara penetrated Tsunade for it) had the Rinnegan ....

None of the clones' eyes were shown, except the one that used genjutsu on the Raikage. There is no evidence that they were ever made with the Rinnegan. All of them had the eyes closed during their creation.