Please explain to me your theory of "thinning out the blood" again...
...maybe I'm lost here. I can understand the "original" thinning out of the blood from the Sage to the 1st Son. So I'm assuming you're saying this keeps happening, and the eyes keep getting thinned out until it reached the Sharigan. But I dont understand... if the blood keeps getting "thinned" and the Clan's eyes goes from:
RINNEGAN > 1st Son Eyes > EMS > MS > Sharigan
Nobody for certain knows this stage you talk about. The manga hasnt hinted that the older brothers eye degrade in the stags youve listed as his bloodline thins. The manga does on the other hand, hint that after the older brothers eye did it go to the sharigan. The thinning im talking about isnt so much to do with the stages, but the uchiha clan in general. During madara's time, it looked like majority of the clan had the sharigan. But as the blood thinned, so did the older brother's eye. Basically the uchiha of the past, majority of wouldve had the sharingan, in comparison to the current uhiha (the one itachi and tobi slaughtered).
This is what you say happens as the blood thins out in the Clan, from SO6P to current Uchiha, correct? From Sage's Rinnegan to the Sharigan correct? This means that all of these eye techniques were possessed by the Uchiha at some time in history, and are lower and lower thinning out of the Rinnegan, right? If this is so, why when ascending back up the succession of Eye Evolutions, would you say it goes...
Sharigan > MS > EMS > RINNEGAN (SKIPPING the 1st Son's Eyes???)
We have no idea who were the next descendants of the older and younger brother. The manga just puts us into madara and hashirama's generation and in that generation, madara started of with the sharigan, no different to any other uchiha and went up the ladder. I cannot tell you what eyes older brother's son (if not madara) had, although it might've been the sharingan
...And Re-obtain the Rinnegan WITHOUT progressing to the 1st Son's eyes first? Why would it go back through all the recessive eye levels except the 1st son's whirlpool eye? Or in other words, if this eye recession is because of thinning of the blood, why when going back to Rinnegan would it touch all levels of the "recessive eyes" (MS/EMS/1st Son eyes) in the Clans history EXCEPT the whirlpool eyes of the 1st Son? Why the sudden "skip"...?-gHost Senju
What im trying to say is that both the ems and the 1st sons eye is what is before the rennigan. What im trying to say is that as the blood thinned and got to the sharigan, if an uchiha was to get an eye that is before the rennigan, it wouldnt look like the older sons, it wouldnt be as powerful as the older brothers eye. Also notice that there are always slight difference between the generations. For example, the younger son got the body and stamina, but we dont know if he had wood release, which is what hashirama has. That is what differs hashirama from the younger son. No different to naruto is an uzumaki infact, but also his life force is due to the fox and not his so to speak. There will always be slight differentiaitons to the next geenration. This is further backed by madara awakening the rennigan, with the ems and not something that looked like the older brothers eye. When madara went from ems, he didnt go to the brothers eye, he went straight to the rennigan and if you look at when gaara pulled him out of susano its confirmed. The younger brothers eye's in no different from the ems but a stronger version of the ems.
Twas' nice to read, as your threads seem to consist of this
Because I don't want to cause any problems, but as I was reading it all, there were a few things where I was like "will comment on that, on that... blah blah" but have forgotten already xD
Haha fair enough, speak your mind, my friend speak your mind :noc:
1. I don't think it needs senju DNA. But I am still sceptical on weather it does need a near death experience 'again' or weather it needs a younger son's trait... No not the DNA but the powerful life force. Which I still think is plausible. I mean, so far the Uchiha has always had something in the way before they unlock stronger power. Unlock sharingan by near death experience, then you get 3 tomoe, you need to kill your best friend unlock MS take eyes and you get EMS, and now it could go back to a near death experience or something new again which could go back to the other half of the sage (not DNA) but a trait he got, the powerful life force. Which is plausible to further explain what Madara obtained from Hashirama (as he did say he obtained something from him, and as we probably both agree it wasn't DNA
)
Powerful life force couldve been one of the reasons why madara activated the rennigan after getting hashirama's cells, but you see when kabuto was talking to madara, never was it implied that senju or in deed hashirama dna was needed. Kabuto said this is what awaits you when you go beyond the sharigan. Does it not sound like a natural evolution.
2. The other point I wanted to make to you is more of a question.
Are you trying to say that the younger son was naturally gifted with his abilities whereas the older son had to work for his, and unlock there's?
Natural more gifted? Depends on how you define this. What im saying is that the younger son actually got what the sage gave him. The older brother did. He didnt get the eyes of the sage. He didnt get the renngian
So Naruto part 1, Kishi emphasised on hard work and determination will get you there.
Thus Naruto trained, worked hard and believed in himself. Coming from someone who has nothing from friends, parents, family and even talent he is now an amazing shinobi.
Sasuke on the other hand, after the first 200 episodes pretty much went into Oro giving him hand me downs, Itachi then giving him MS powers which as follows he unlocked the rest, to then having Itachi's eyes transplanted and getting more powerful (which me personally I haven't seen) has had to keep getting through these circumstances and unlocking the next stage because that is what the 'older son' has to do?
So let me just put it quickly into respective.
You could actually be onto something really good here and it does make sense now that I think about it.
Older son: Has great potential but needs to unlock it
Younger son: Has great ability and has talent
Sasuke: Has great talent and potential, but needs to unlock them
Naruto: Has great ability but no talent
Is this what you meant to my point 2? I can see it making sense even if this is not what you meant haha xD
That is to an extent what im trying to say. Its actually a straight forward path for naruto, whilst for sasuke he has to unlocks stuff as he does along
Edit: Reading someone's post above me kinda makes my idea sound better. As you said as well Blaze, Hashirama has been an enhance for certain Uchiha abilities, such as KA and Izanagi. The person above me however says this is senju DNA and that is the enhancer. However, what is the pattern here, and the WHOLE senju DNA factor? It's Hashirama, he is the denominator for the enhancement. Now Blaze made a brilliant point on they could of grabbed any old Senju for DNA even Tsunade who has reputaion herself, or second hokage in his grave? But once again I bring you back to my point of it's not Senju DNA as a whole, it is one of the senju, the 'younger son's' traits... The powerful life force. This is the enhance and what I believe pushes the sharingan user onto Rinnegan.
You could be onto something, but you at the last moment turned a diferent course :flaw:. Thats what ive said from the beginning that, hashirama is like the younger brother. But what im saying is that a ninja who represents the younger brother will push the older brother to awaken his full power (the rennigan), because the rennigan is not what the older brother had. I basically believe that the cream of the crop of the younger brother would be able to fight on par with the cream of the crop of the older brother and only the younger brother would be able to defeat him. Only he would be able to make the older brother have this near death experience and awaken the rennigan. So whilst no i do not believe senju dna is needed, hashirama is important to madara obtaining the rennigan. Not because he took his dna, but because only he could challenge him. Only he could give him this experience
Dude I know the Uzumaki are related to the Senju. I pointed that out 2 posts ago. I hate when people think that their theories are fail proof. Madara giving Nagato the Rennigan is a THEORY. I've heard all of that before. Some people say Madara couldn't have given it to Nagato because it doesn't line up with the time frame of his death. That is how the next theory of Madara giving it to Tobi to do for him came about. Then those still opposed to the theory started saying that Madara mentioned Nagato because Tobi simply somehow kept in contact with Madara and kept him up to date of the plans. I've heard ALL of this before. All I'm saying is, I've never seen it said in the manga. People just throw in what they want.
I kind of get where you are coming from now with the Rennigan theory being a Uchiha progression now though. I never thought aboutt that thing about Kakashi. I guess if you can use the Sharingan and not be Senju or Uchiha, I don't see why you use the Rennigan and not be Senju or Uchiha. But still, it's only my THEORY because I've never seen a Rennigan user in the manga who DID NOT have Senju cells/blood. So I don't know
Something else I just thought of...Why did Kakashi not awaken the EMS when died during the Pein fight? You don't have to answer that question, but I hope you are now seeing why I had some objection to your theory. I believe pretty much the same thing as you do, but there are some holes to our theory
Firstly at least you get what im talking about in this thread. About how nagato got the rennigan, if you dont believe me then thats fine, but all ive said about madara the real one giving it to him has been confirmed when he was revived.
At the highlighted, that is too far fetched. Heck we dont even know how kakashi got the ms and although ive a theory, it isnt related to this. Anyway kakashi cannot get the ems, because of how the ems works. Btw my internet is playing games on me and ive already lost a massive chuck of what i wanted to say therefore ive patched it up and posted it
