The Rennigan DOESNT require Senju DNA!!!

[Chojuro Sama Kun]

You put alot of things to your opinions...cool

 

[Chojuro Sama Kun]

and the elder sons isn't really cannon either
but anime colored his photo red also t.t

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while his brother's was normal

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Dude did you ever realized that the elder son's eye really isn't the rinnengan

 

[EternalSage]

Very well said. I've been trying to tell people this for awhile now.

The key point in your argument is that: If all Madara needed was Senju DNA, then he could of got it from any other Senju.

Makes a lot of sense.

 

[lnvalid]

Dude did you ever realized that the elder son's eye really isn't the rinnengan

This makes me wonder, is there any connection to the elder sons eyes and the uzumaki? since its the same symbol. coincidence or did i miss any theory threads on that?

 

[The Necromancer]

Very well said. I've been trying to tell people this for awhile now.

The key point in your argument is that: If all Madara needed was Senju DNA, then he could of got it from any other Senju.

Makes a lot of since.

Any other senju......? would you care to name one other?

 

[Mishima]

Good work man.

 

[Zato]

In what type of way would Madara need Hashirama's DNA or power to obtain the Rinnegan? One son was given the sages eyes(Madara) and the other was given the sages body(Hashirama). Just because the elder son was not born with the sages exact eyes does not mean they cannot evolve into them just as the sharigan can evolve into the MS and beyond that the EMS. We have already seen that Madara can go from his sharigan into EMS then after that the Rinnegan. Which means he can activate the Rinnegan and thus deactivate it at will. Nagato couldn't do this. Its a very simple reason why. Its the same reason why Sasuke and Madara can no longer deactivate their sharigans because they are now eternal through a transplant. Nagato's Rinnegan was obviously transplanted into him. If we look at Hashirama and see just how special his power was then its obvious that he has indeed inherited the sages body. Madara even with the EMS was no match for Hashirama and we know this because Madara was forced to summon and control the 9tails just to be on a even playing field vs Hashirama and he still lost. If the sages eyes and body represent yin and yang then why was Hashirama so much stronger then Madara? Its because Hashirama awakened the "sages body" while Madara was still at a devolved phase of the sages eyes.

What I think is most revealing is what Kabuto states after Madara uses his Rinnegan to call down those meteors. He says "So THIS is the power of the SO6P" now lets go back to where he had control over Nagato and he had no real reaction nor excitement at all over Nagato's techniques and power. I think Madara took Hashirama's DNA to gain the power of Izanagi AND to prolong his life because of the wounds he received after his battle with Hashirama. I think what Tobi said about Madara(well as he was portraying to be Madara) was correct. That after his battle with Hashirama he lost a huge amount of his strength and he probably was only able to hand on to life through Hashirama's powers. I'll explain why Kabuto reacted differently.

I think basically what Kabuto did was give him more of Hashirama's powers so that he could use "creation of all techniques". We know what Hashirama's DNA/Power+Sharigans do. Now think what Hashirama's DNA/power+Rinnegan will do. This is why Madara was pissed when he knew that Kabuto figured out the secrets of his body and was shocked when he thought Kabuto deciphered the Uchiha tablet. He was also shock to find Hashirama's face on his chest. I just think its obvious that you don't need Hashirama's DNA to gain the Rinnegan but instead you need his powers to actually use to full potential of the Rinnegan just like you need his power to use ultimate sharigan techniques as in Izanagai and possibly Izanami(which may not be the case for this one.) In the Rinnegan's case you will need Hashirama's powers to actually use "creation of all techniques" This is why I think Madara's meteor was so big and the could create them out of thin air.

Tobi's faith in Sasuke is pretty much key in this case as well. He wants to strengthen up Sasuke's eyes and power for the sole reason that his eyes will truly be awakened into the Rinnegan. Then he can thus sync him to the Gedo Mazo as hes been planning to this entire time. I think Sasuke is in the same boat as Madara. Madara was said to have the strongest chakara ever seen by an Uchiha and the 9tails state that Madara's chakara was even more power and sinister then his own. The 9tails compared Sasuke to Madara in the sense that he was in the same boat as him in some way.

 

[EonForce42]

Didn't even read. It's already stated in the Manga you don't need it.

 

[YourOwnInability]

Well formated and descisive, as usual good job. Let me ask you then how do you think Sasuke gets it then? A while back I read a prediction thread that was saying something about Naruto being a reincarnation and getting his soul and the so6p soul combining to complete the path of light for tailed beasts and that Sasuke would gain powers like slowing time in an area around him. Do you think it will involve the talk with itachi. Anyway good work. :y

 

[EternalSage]

Any other senju......? would you care to name one other?

The Senju were a clan. A clan consists of more than one person. Are you implying that Hashirama is the only Senju?

Another Senju could be.. umm.. OH YEAH! TOBIRAMA SENJU. :flaw:

 

[YourOwnInability]

Blaze why do you always have to write so much xd I enjoy reading your threads for the most part, but the length annoys me lol.

Impatient as usual lol j/k Vegeta

 

[Owarij]

Dude did you ever realized that the elder son's eye really isn't the rinnengan

yea i did o.0, two diff patterns and possibly colors

 

[The Necromancer]

The Senju were a clan. A clan consists of more than one person. Are you implying that Hashirama is the only Senju?

Another Senju could be.. umm.. OH YEAH! TOBIRAMA SENJU. :flaw:

Then why did danzo need hashirama's dna. Why did tobi need hashirama's dna, and why did madara take hashirama's dna. Why couldn't they just kill some 11 year old kid if anyone would have worked?

 

[The Necromancer]

In what type of way would Madara need Hashirama's DNA or power to obtain the Rinnegan? One son was given the sages eyes(Madara) and the other was given the sages body(Hashirama). Just because the elder son was not born with the sages exact eyes does not mean they cannot evolve into them just as the sharigan can evolve into the MS and beyond that the EMS. We have already seen that Madara can go from his sharigan into EMS then after that the Rinnegan. Which means he can activate the Rinnegan and thus deactivate it at will. Nagato couldn't do this. Its a very simple reason why. Its the same reason why Sasuke and Madara can no longer deactivate their sharigans because they are now eternal through a transplant. Nagato's Rinnegan was obviously transplanted into him. If we look at Hashirama and see just how special his power was then its obvious that he has indeed inherited the sages body. Madara even with the EMS was no match for Hashirama and we know this because Madara was forced to summon and control the 9tails just to be on a even playing field vs Hashirama and he still lost. If the sages eyes and body represent yin and yang then why was Hashirama so much stronger then Madara? Its because Hashirama awakened the "sages body" while Madara was still at a devolved phase of the sages eyes.

What I think is most revealing is what Kabuto states after Madara uses his Rinnegan to call down those meteors. He says "So THIS is the power of the SO6P" now lets go back to where he had control over Nagato and he had no real reaction nor excitement at all over Nagato's techniques and power. I think Madara took Hashirama's DNA to gain the power of Izanagi AND to prolong his life because of the wounds he received after his battle with Hashirama. I think what Tobi said about Madara(well as he was portraying to be Madara) was correct. That after his battle with Hashirama he lost a huge amount of his strength and he probably was only able to hand on to life through Hashirama's powers. I'll explain why Kabuto reacted differently.

I think basically what Kabuto did was give him more of Hashirama's powers so that he could use "creation of all techniques". We know what Hashirama's DNA/Power+Sharigans do. Now think what Hashirama's DNA/power+Rinnegan will do. This is why Madara was pissed when he knew that Kabuto figured out the secrets of his body and was shocked when he thought Kabuto deciphered the Uchiha tablet. He was also shock to find Hashirama's face on his chest. I just think its obvious that you don't need Hashirama's DNA to gain the Rinnegan but instead you need his powers to actually use to full potential of the Rinnegan just like you need his power to use ultimate sharigan techniques as in Izanagai and possibly Izanami(which may not be the case for this one.) In the Rinnegan's case you will need Hashirama's powers to actually use "creation of all techniques" This is why I think Madara's meteor was so big and the could create them out of thin air.

Tobi's faith in Sasuke is pretty much key in this case as well. He wants to strengthen up Sasuke's eyes and power for the sole reason that his eyes will truly be awakened into the Rinnegan. Then he can thus sync him to the Gedo Mazo as hes been planning to this entire time. I think Sasuke is in the same boat as Madara. Madara was said to have the strongest chakara ever seen by an Uchiha and the 9tails state that Madara's chakara was even more power and sinister then his own. The 9tails compared Sasuke to Madara in the sense that he was in the same boat as him in some way.

Woah woah woah. Who said sasuke couldn't deactivate his own sharingan? And itachi doesn't have transplanted eyes, so whatever reason you say doesn't apply to both of them even though we've clearly seen itachi deactivate his sharingan 2 or 3 times.

 

[hatake89]

you know what!? was actually worth my time

 

[EternalSage]

Then why did danzo need hashirama's dna. Why did tobi need hashirama's dna, and why did madara take hashirama's dna. Why couldn't they just kill some 11 year old kid if anyone would have worked?

Danzo is not an Uchiha and he also didn't have a Rinnegan.

Tobi, IMO, is not an Uchiha either. That is to be determined though.

Non Uchiha's use Hasiramas DNA to enhance themselves.

If an Uchiha progresses up to the Rinnengan, then they do not have to have Senju DNA. Read the title and the thread. It says you don't need Senju DNA in order to awaken the Rinnegan. A Senju is not just Hashirama and that's the point. So if you did need Senju DNA, then Hashirama was not the only source that Madara could have gotten it from.

That's why we think that you do not need Senju DNA.

Also, Madara didn't kill Hashirama.

 

[The Necromancer]

Danzo is not an Uchiha and he also didn't have a Rinnegan.

Tobi, IMO, is not an Uchiha either. That is to be determined though.

Non Uchiha's use Hasiramas DNA to enhance themselves.

If an Uchiha progresses up to the Rinnengan, then they do not have to have Senju DNA. Read the title and the thread. It says you don't need Senju DNA in order to awaken the Rinnegan. A Senju is not just Hashirama and that's the point. So if you did need Senju DNA, then Hashirama was not the only source that Madara could have gotten it from.

That's why we think that you do not need Senju DNA.

No they use SENJU dna to enhance themselves, both to use izanagi which requrires senju dna. Which brings me back to my point, why use his dna (the strongest shinobi in the world at the time) instead of any fodder ninja that would work?

 

[Unorthodox]

that was way to long

 

[The Necromancer]

This is one of THEE threads that ive been keeping under my sleeve for a while and for various reasons didnt want to create it. What i will say though is, if you do not read the whole thread i guarantee you'd still be dumbfounded about the whole rennigan issue. Anyway i will be explaining;

• Hashirama's abilities
• What the EMS is and its purpose
• The final stage of the sharigan
• Similarities between the younger and older son, Hashirama and Madara and Naruto and Sasuke and more importantly why sasuke will get The rennigan

The first question is what is Hashirama's abilities. I will not go through every technique yamato or anybody else has shown us because although his ability is very important to understand, the purpose isnt to show off his abilities.

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Ability to suppress jinchrucki;

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Ability to use 3 Elements;

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Ability to control the environment;

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Medic ninjutsu rivals Tsunade;

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Hashirama's life force. His genes not only grows zetsu but makes them stronger;

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Life force not only increases duration of izanagi, it also decreases the time duration of KA (Kotoamatsukami);

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Had a number of Tailed beasts under his control;

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He reeks of OP, doesnt he? xd. That isnt what this thread is about though. Now that we accustomed to Hashirama's abilities, the question is if you are a power hungry ninja that have fought him several times, wouldnt you want such abilities?, i know i do, but forget about me. Tobi talking as Madara, revealed that he fought to gain access to his many abilities. Now Tobi had no reason to lie and he didnt, because the real madara revealed exactly what Tobi said and yes Madara did fight to gain access to Hashirama's abilities;

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The manga has made it painfully clear how OP hashirama. The manga has made it painfully clear that madara is a power hungry bastard, but also fought to gain access to hashirama's many abilities. Even when he was brought back to life, he sounds like a character who's rivalry with Hashirama turned into a one sided crush wit him constantly talking about hashirama, but also so far he has depended on the abilities he stole. Clearly he very much likes hashirama's abilities, even saying he was the only one that could see through hashirama's mokouton clone. Dan said the only person who could defeat madara was hashirama. Hashirama's abilities was called a fairly tail. He was said to be stronger than madara. The manga has made it very clear that, at that time only Hashirama could stand up to madara;

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Im not sure about you but if senju dna is what is needed to activate the rennigan, i wouldnt go after the top dog of the senju. Id go after any other senju, defeat them and take their dna, after all its been clear that only hashirama could defeat him. Thats what im trying to say, senju dna isnt needed or else madara wouldve beaten any other senju and taken their dna. He wanted hashirama's abilities and thats why he fought to gain access to these abilities which the manga has made painfully clear. U_U

Next is what is the EMS and its purpose, well apart from stopping the blindness process, there are improvements that ive noticed from the ems. Basically we all know that its a combination of 2 ms's and when you look at both madara and sasuke's eyes you cann see izuna's and itachi's ms design in their eyes respectively.

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Itachi;

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Sasuke's;

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EMS Sasuke;

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Izuna's;

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Madara's;

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EMS Madara;

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Being a combination of 2 ms's it increases the power of the users doujutsu techniques. For example ms sasuke's v1 susano was penetrated by A, yet A didnt even leave a mark on madara's v1 susano.
Sasuke's v1;

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Madara's v1;

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Next alot of people keep saying kishi has allowed sasuke to gain a huge chakra reserve or the ems gives the user a chakra boost and that is false. From what ive seen the ems allows the user to use its techniques with minimum chakra drainage. You can go as far as saying an ems user using its technique's drains little to no chakra no different to an uchiha using the sharigan in battle which again drains very little chakra. Sasuke could hardly maintain a v1 susano and just before he went blind activated a final susano. Yet with the ems he was able to activate its final form with ease. Similarly madara has been able to activate a further advanced susano with ease.

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Madara;

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Sasuke;

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But it doesnt end there. The ems is a stepping stone to greater things. You can say the EMS = KM (naruto) and ill explain that later on. Anyway another misconception about the EMS, is that it stops the user's eye from bleeding. Personally im not sure where people get these misconceptions from but the manga has made it very clear that it doesnt;

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The greatest misconception of all is that an ems user gains a 4th technique. That my friends was a mistranslation from manga reader who are notorious for their mistranslations. This is the real translation;

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As Itachi said, "The transplant gave birth to a completely new doujutsu". He didnt say the translate allowed the user to activate a 4th technique. That was a mistranslation. Ill come back to that page again and fully explain.

Anyway i did say that the EMS was a footstep to greater things and that the EMS = KM (Naruto). KM, naruto was a footstep to greater things and that was BM naruto;

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Now that we know that KM was a stepping stone to BM naruto and KM naruto was incomplete. The question is What is the stepping stone, the next stage of the EMS. The answer THE RENNIGAN

How do i know this?. How do you activate THE RENNIGAN, there you go;

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Yes the EMS is a stepping stone to the rennigan and ill explain. This image speaks volumes alone. Ill cut it apart and further explain;

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In the first image the one above, Itachi was blantatly talking about the EMS when he said and i quote; "A permanent Mangekyou Sharingan!. By changing hosts the younger brothers eye found an inextinguishable light!". The Ems is what he is blatantly talking about.;

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Now im certain by now youve noticed that above the 4 sharigans there is something that looks very similar to the rennigan and ive clearly highlighted it in red. That my friends in the rennigan, notice how its above all 4 sharigans. Notice how itachi talks about the ems then above it we have something that looks like the rennigan. What i will say is that the 4 sharigans symbolises the EMS because 2 sharigans = 1 MS. 2MS = EMS, therefore 4 sharigans = EMS.

In the next image please, focus closely on Itachi's words. In the top image he was clearly talking about the EMS. He then went on to say in the next image and i quote " But that was only half the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new dojutsu;

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I know although itachi didnt say anything about the rennigan, its blatently obvious that this what he was hinting although he didnt say that. Now alot of people will say how does itachi know this, only madara activated the rennigan. But you see, forget the fact that itachi is extremely knowledgeable and focus on the uchiha tablet, that he read and told sasuke to read;

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Its this same tablet that contained the secret of madara's body;

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Now it seems like madara wrote the secrets of his body/rennigan on the uchiha monument stone after obtaining the rennigan, therefore although he can fully read the tablet because he has the rennigan, he would pass on some of the information of the rennigan that his descendants with the shairgan couldnt read.

I know that it was said that the higher your advance from the sharigan, ms, ems, rennigan the more you can read the tablet. Madara with the ems, read majority of the tablet, but obviously couldnt read it all because he didnt have the rennigan. This is the hypothesis that i believe he formed. The first one is how the sharigan overall works. We all know that in order for an uchiha to gain the sharigan, they must have a near death experience. We then found out that in order to get the ms somebody close to you must die. We then found that in order to get the ems you must take your siblings who has the ms and with that you have effectively killed them because they now have no eyes. In all the stages of the sharigan death is somehow related to achieving greater power, activating a higher doujutsu and this is why i believe madara fought hashirama. I believe apart from the fact that he also wanted his abilities, hashirama was the only person at that time who could awaken madara's rennigan. Only he could challenge madara and allow him to have a near death experience;

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Madara further clarifies that yes after having a near death experience, he activated the rennigan ;

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He said he awakened it shortly before his death, but the time duration between him activating it and dying isnt as short as he says. In that 'short' time he wrote the secrets of his body on the uchiha tablet and gave nagato the rennigan, which has been clarified by madara himself that, yes he did give nagato the rennigan to revive him later on.

The next question is how am i certain that the rennigan is the final stage of the sharigan. Not that difficulty really, the manga has not only bad it blatantly obvious, it has basically said it here "What awates you when you progress beyond the sharingan, is THE RENNIGAN;

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Never ever in the manga has it said that senju dna was needed and never ever did madara or kabuto say this. The manga has however not only made it undoubtedly clear, its even said it there and then. The rennigan is the natural evolution of the sharigan. The final stage of the sharingan

So how is sasuke going to get the rennigan. Well ive told explained to you that EMS= KM (Naruto) and that both EMS and KM are incomplete. Both are a stepping stone to greater things. Kishi has said that both naruto and sasuke grow as a pair. Lets be honest here, bm naruto would annihilate sasuke xd. This is how sasuke will get the rennigan, this is the link between naruto and sasuke and hashirama and madara;

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Ems sasuke right now is the 2nd strongest ninja's alive right now (excluding madara (kabuto)). The only ninja excluding kabuto, that is above him is naruto. Excluding kabuto, the only ninja alive that could stand up to sasuke is naruto (I hope you guys are noticing the similarities between naruto and sasuke and hahsirama and madara - history is repeating itself).

Now ill show you the outstanding similarities between the 3 generations (older son and younger son, hahsirama and madara and naruto and sasuke. The older son was said to have gained the sage's 'eyes' and powerful chakra. Whilst the younger son was said to have gained the sage's body and life force;

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In you look carefully, which two looks complete?. Its very clear that the younger son was more complete than the older son. Although the older son got the sages 'eyes' we can all see that it looks like a weaker rennigan, whilst the younger brother seem to have gotten everything that was given to him, the older brother didnt.

Thats the same with hashirama and madara. Hashirama represents the younger brother (descendent obviously). Hashirama was complete, whilst madara (descendent) wasnt, he still had the EMS which you could say represents the older brothers eyes. Also notice hashirama's life force, that i uploaded a while ago. Able to increase the duration of izanagi, grow and make zetsu stronger and decrease the time duration of KA.

History has again repeated itself. Naruto is now the younger brother (descendent obviously, albeit an uzumaki) whilst sasuke is the older son (descendent). Sasuke like the older son and madara, are incomplete. They might have have the sage's eyes, but they do not have the rennigan (just yet anyway). Naruto, like the younger son and hashirama are more complete, but also naruto has followed this step and showed us the life force of the younger son, no different to hashirama's life force;

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So whilst the older son and his generation have always been incomplete, the younger son have, but this is where it gets interesting. I believe after years of fighting, after a final battle, the older son experienced a near death moment which allowed him to activate the rennigan and become complete, just like the younger son.

No different to how after years of fighting, after a final battle madara after experiencing a near death moment activated the rennigan.

History will no doubt repeat itself, this time in naruto and sasuke. After a final battle, sasuke the older brother (funny enough sasuke is also older than naruto by a couple of weeks), will awaken the final stage of the sharigan after facing a near death experience. This has not only been set in stone, the fight in part 1 was for telling of things to come. Its naruto, that funny enough caused sasuke to activate the final stage of the sharigan which was his 3rd and final tomoe, at the same location did hashirama cause madara to awaken the final, final stage of the sharigan which is the rennigan;

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Naruto will cause sasuke again to awaken the final stage of the sharigan. This time not a the 3 tomoe sharigan, but the final stage of the sharigan. THE RENNIGAN

That ^^^^, my friends is the secret behind everything and im out :izuna:

Also this is completely off topic, but since uzumakis are related to senju, doesn't it make sense that naruto could have kept shisui's eye and used it sooner than 10 years from the last time it was used? maybe not once a day like danzo, but maybe ever month or week? Just something to think about.

 

[lnvalid]

No they use SENJU dna to enhance themselves, both to use izanagi which requrires senju dna. Which brings me back to my point, why use his dna (the strongest shinobi in the world at the time) instead of any fodder ninja that would work?

Izanagi and izanami have the same Reqs...so.....this means Itachi has senju dna too?
no bro....no