The Questionable Legitimacy of Ross Ulbricht's Upcoming Trial

[Cruciatus]

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I’m not sure if anyone else here is as interested in this as me, but here goes. However, before I begin, I warn you: what I have written is certainly biased, and while I don’t want this to come across a propaganda, I do think Ross shouldn’t be held accountable for these charges and I also want to protect the internet that connects me to you and lets me share this opinion with you. I’d also like to stress that this thread is directed mostly at Americans. When I reference the “government,” I do mean the American Government, but this doesn’t mean it isn’t still an interesting topic to people who live in other countries.

I invite you to look at both sides of the argument and form an opinion of your own. All the legal documents relating to the case can be found online.

Background​

Spoiler

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On the 1st of October, 2013, the U.S. Government, reportedly with the help of the NSA, seized the Silk Road server. The Silk Road, nestled into the deep web, was a notorious online drug market administrated by “Dread Pirate Roberts,” who gets his name from the movie The Princess Bride. The name, in the movie, is passed from pirate to pirate (which would suggest that the administrator position of the Silk Road could be passed off as well). Authorities arrested a man they suspected to be Dread Pirate Roberts (DPR)––a man by the name of Ross Ulbricht.


If you visit Well from your post this doesn't seem like a big deal, people have been found guily for money laundering in the past on the internet, people have also been found guilty for illegal activity orchestrated throughout the internet. (i.e. Craigslist, Facebook, etc.).

There is survalliance all over the internet for the exact reason that people think they can do whatever they want.[/QUOTE]

http://freeross.org/"]freeross.org , you can can find some obvious propaganda under the “

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?” tab that supports Ross and denies his criminality. He is described as a nature-loving Eagle Scout, a scholar, and a philanthropist. If you care to glance at his

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page, you will find that Ross himself says “I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systematic use of force.” In other words, Ross feels as though the key to changing government is to change the governed; he wishes to “abolish coercion” among mankind. In doing so, he created the Silk Road, which has been called the Amazon.com of illegal drugs. While I do respect Ross and admire his intelligence, I won’t deny that he was the administrator of a website that it clearly criminal. However, some of charges that have been brought against him are both underserved and unethical.

Please note: The Silk Road operated under the online currency,

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. All exchanges on the website were made with Bitcoin. The U.S. Government does not recognize Bitcoin as a legitimate currency.

The Charges​

Spoiler

Ross Ulbricht pleads not guilty to all of the following charges:​

Narcotics Trafficking

An activity in which DPR did not partake––rather, other members of the Silk Road used the site as a way to secretly traffic narcotics.

Computer Hacking

Ross (under his alias, DPR) was never found to have illegally hacked any computer. Rather, he provided a platform on which malicious software could be sold.

Money Laundering

DPR did collect a small amount of Bitcoin from each transaction on the site. However, if the U.S. Government does not recognize Bitcoin as a legitimate currency, how can they accuse someone of laundering money? According the the U.S. Government, the 144,000 in Bitcoin found on DPR’s account (worth $28.5 million) is inconsequential.

Indeed, Bitcoin would have to be recognized as an official currency in order for this charge to be legitimate, and even if our government did this, Ulbricht still cannot be held to this charge ex post facto.

Engaging in a criminal enterprise

Ross himself created the Silk Road to be an “economic simulation” of a world without coercion––whether it was his intention that it should be used as a drug market is something only he can say. Ulbicht never took part in the buying or selling of drugs on this website. He acted as neither a kingpin nor the leader of a drug market (for whom this charge is usually reserved); rather, he simply provided a platform on which people could engage in such illicit activities.

Conspiracy to traffic in Fraudulent IDs

A legitimate charge, in my opinion. Prior to the website being seized, DPR had posted and asked if anyone knew where he could find fake IDs. However, I don’t know this to be a fact, just something I’ve heard around the rumor mill.

I know I’m repeating myself about this “platform” idea, but it’s essential to whether or not Ross will be convicted of these charges.

An explanation of all charges brought against Ulbricht can be found

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.

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Spoiler

Our Constitution does not accommodate for the digital age––the U.S. Government will take a case like this and either write good laws or bad laws regarding internet freedom and online criminal enterprises. This is the case that will determine how the digital world is regarded legally.

If Ross Ulbricht is found guilty of the charges of narcotics trafficking and computer hacking, this will mean that hosts can now be held criminally liable for illegal activities on their sites, regardless of whether or not they directly took part in it. In other words, if someone from our community here on Narutobase agreed to meet another person and sell them illicit drugs, Versuvio would be held criminally liable as well, since his website was used as a platform for a drug exchange.

In addition to this, if Ross is found guilty of money laundering, it will usher in a new age in which the government recognizes crypto-currency (about time).

The case presents the possible erosion of our free internet, and as someone who comes before you today and presents a message to you via the internet, online freedom is valuable to me and, presumably, to you, too. This issue is especially pertinent to my generation––the ones who have grown up online and who do not realize how precious the freedom of the internet is until that liberty is threatened.

Why Ross Has Been Wronged by the American Government​

Spoiler

. . .And how the government can use this case to wrong you​

First and foremost, his fourth amendment rights were violated by the unlawful seizure of his website. The former FBI official who hacked his site had been very vague and inconsistent in telling how he managed to find the Silk Road server, which was hosted in Iceland. The Government defied international boarders without any reason to suspect that the Silk Road was run by an American––a seizure without probable cause. In addition to this, it is clear that the government used illegal hacking methods to come across his server, which is nestled into the deep web and can only be reached through meticulous means. It has been called

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by multiple technologists that they Silk Road server’s IP address was randomly discovered through legal, accidental means, as Special Agent Tarbell claimed.

Secondly, Ulbicht is being brought up on a plethora of charges in the hopes that one of them will put him into jail. It is clear that Ross is an enemy of the government––after all, his hidden server posed a threat to the government’s power and authority and prevented them from regulating what items came into their country, which is especially frustrating when such items are of an illicit nature. He was also charged with six counts of murder for hire. Since his arrest in 2013, the charges have mysteriously disappeared, which would suggest that the evidence behind them was either insubstantial or simply nonexistent. Certain charges are clearly illegitimate and will determine how are online criminals are prosecuted in the future.

Furthermore, there is potential violation of his sixth amendment right to speedy trial because of previous charges in the state of Maryland.

Once again, I’d like to stress that it is obvious Ross was aware of the criminality of his site. When you take into account the purpose of his server, to simulate a world “without coercion,” it makes sense that Ross would not have intervened in the events happening there. In a sense, he achieved his goal––but Ross has won the battle, not the war.

Do you think the case is important? Do you think the American government will be taking away some of our internet freedoms in the near future? And perhaps the best question to ask: do you think Ross’s position as administrator of the Silk Road makes him responsible for the activities happening there, or do you simply regard him as a libertarian who is providing the people with a rule-free market?

I guess it comes down to crowning him or criminalizing him.

A document you may want to check out from the side of the prosecution rather than the defense:

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. The document addresses the issue of possible paid employees and looks at Ross as an active leader rather than a passive administrator.

 

[Sir Blades]

Dont know, dont care truthfully.

 

[Cruciatus]

Dont know, dont care truthfully.

Thank you for the contribution of this extraneous comment. I, and humanity, have benefitted from it.

 

[Yanks]

Though I might not know much about this subject; Assuming that they were able to track down the admin, why not target the users who were trafficking said drugs over the internet instead/as well?

 

[Sir Blades]

Thank you for the contribution of this extraneous comment. I, and humanity, have benefitted from it.

Same thing can be said from your thread hurrrrr hurrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Well from your post this doesn't seem like a big deal, people have been found guily for money laundering in the past on the internet, people have also been found guilty for illegal activity orchestrated through the internet. (i.e. Craigslist, Facebook, etc.).

There is survalliance all over the internet for the exact reason that people think they can do whatever they want. That's how leads are created. You could post something that might make you seem like a terrorist on Facebook and have the cops at your house.

 

[Cruciatus]

Though I might not know much about this subject; Assuming that they were able to track down the admin, why not target the users who were trafficking said drugs over the internet instead/as well?

That's a great question. Unfortunately, I can only know what the media will let me know. It's possible that they weren't able to track these people down. I believe the only way they found Ross was because he used his actual e-mail address on the site. But other than that, I wouldn't have any clue.

Same thing can be said from your thread hurrrrr hurrrrrr hurrrrrrrr

Oh, you are so funny.

Well from your post this doesn't seem like a big deal, people have been found guily for money laundering in the past on the internet, people have also been found guilty for illegal activity orchestrated throughout the internet. (i.e. Craigslist, Facebook, etc.).

There is survalliance all over the internet for the exact reason that people think they can do whatever they want.

Except in this case, the "money" being laundered isn't money at all. It's crypto-currency.

Furthermore, people on Craigslist who are found guilty for doing illegal things have actually done them; Ross Ulbricht has not. He is being charged with narcotics trafficking without having physically trafficked narcotics, and as you can imagine, this would in fact change the way we view online criminality.

And as for your final statement: that's an important topic to consider, I think. Should the government be spying on us when we go on the internet? Personally, I think that's a threat to my privacy and to my freedom, but that's different for everyone.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Except in this case, the "money" being laundered isn't money at all. It's crypto-currency.

Furthermore, people on Craigslist who are found guilty for doing illegal things have actually done them; Ross Ulbricht has not. He is being charged with narcotics trafficking without having physically trafficked narcotics, and as you can imagine, this would in fact change the way we view online criminality.

And as for your final statement: that's an important topic to consider, I think. Should the government be spying on us when we go on the internet? Personally, I think that's a threat to my privacy and to my freedom, but that's different for everyone.

Yeah but currency is used as a medium of exchange which means it doesn't matter. He got something of value in exchange for drugs which makes it trafficking technically. You could take a pack of Pokemon cards in exchange for giving someone a dime sack and be tried for trafficking.

It's not like the internet isn't apart of life and under law. You don't have to move any weight to be charged with trafficking. Like they caught this dude last year who was a head hancho in the Cartel, I'm sure he had people under him pushing the drugs for him, but he still got tried with trafficking narcotics. Orchestration isn't exempted from the law.

And freedom is an illusion, we all need money to survive. We're all slaves, it's just not blatant.

 

[Urda]

They can only get him on accessory.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Well from your post this doesn't seem like a big deal, people have been found guily for money laundering in the past on the internet, people have also been found guilty for illegal activity orchestrated through the internet. (i.e. Craigslist, Facebook, etc.).

There is survalliance all over the internet for the exact reason that people think they can do whatever they want. That's how leads are created. You could post something that might make you seem like a terrorist on Facebook and have the cops at your house.

Money laundering. With pretend money. This would be like going to jail because you laundered monopoly money or pieces of paper with $ written on them with magic marker.

OT: Like I told you when we talked about this, there are multiple things about this that make no sense to me. For one, just because he is in charge of the site he is charged with what people do on there? When that hacker was leaking nudes on Reddit, the government didn't track down the Admins of Reddit and charge them with torts of invasion of privacy and theft. When people were posting nudes of underage people on Twitter a few months back, the government didn't track the Admins and charge them with the possession and distribution of child pornography, so why is it that now, they do go after the Admin for what the users did? This would be like me threatening to kill someone here on NarutoBase, and Zise being arrested for assault. If I sell you a gun, and you choose to go murder someone with it, do I have blood on my hands now?

I think the case is important because it would define the limits of the government. What their jurisdictions? If this site was hosted in Iceland, does the US government have the right to take it down? Communist China apparently doesn't like YouTube, so they have it banned in their country. They didn't have YouTube removed completely from the Internet, they just prevented their country from seeing it, restraining themselves to their country. Does the US have the right to overstep their national boundaries, and decide for everyone else if this site stays up?

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Money laundering. With pretend money. This would be like going to jail because you laundered monopoly money or pieces of paper with $ written on them with magic marker.

You're missing the point, it's not the actual value of what you're exchanging but the exchange of something in return for drugs. That's literally the definition of trafficking.

 

[Cruciatus]

Yeah but currency is used as a medium of exchange which means it doesn't matter. He got something of value in exchange for drugs which makes it trafficking technically. You could take a pack of Pokemon cards in exchange for giving someone a dime sack and be tried for trafficking.

It's not like the internet isn't apart of life and under law. You don't have to move any weight to be charged with trafficking. Like they caught this dude last year who was a head hancho in the Cartel, I'm sure he had people under him pushing the drugs for him, but he still got tried with trafficking narcotics. Orchestration isn't exempted from the law.

And freedom is an illusion, we all need money to survive. We're all slaves, it's just not blatant.

But that's the problem. If our government doesn't recognize Bitcoin as a legitimate currency, then the charge of money laundering is generally invalid.

Ross wasn't a kingpin. He was not the leader of a criminal enterprise. He was the administrator of a website, and nothing more. He did not organize drug sales, nor did recruit people to sell any illegal products. He provided a place in which illicit goods could be sold secretly and without expected retaliation. His being accused of narcotics trafficking and computer hacking is like me building a house, letting people into it, and being charged with drug trafficking because the people within my home have trafficked drugs. I have moved no weight nor have I deliberately created a criminal enterprise, yet I am considered responsible because it's my home. And I think that this topic makes for interesting discussion (as we are having), and even though we disagree, it prompts a thoughtful response. I think everyone would probably have an opinion on this, and as I said in my original post, it is a matter of crowning or criminalizing Ross.

And yeah, freedom is an illusion. But it shouldn't be. And it wouldn't be if people actually stood up for their rights.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You're missing the point, it's not the actual value of what you're exchanging but the exchange of something in return for drugs. That's literally the definition.

Check my earlier post, you missed the point of the legitimacy of the BitCoin. You can't be charged for money laundering if it's not real money.

You think the issue Crucio is asking is ¨Should he be charged for trafficking since he didn't use real money?¨, when the question is ¨Should he be charged for money laundering when it isn't real money, and should he be charged for drug trafficking when he didn't partake in any actual transactions involving drugs.¨

If providing the platform for people to do drug transactions makes him a criminal, then if you wanna get **** about it, the government provided the platform(street corner) where someone bought drugs from another, they should be tried. That's exactly the kind of thing that is happening here.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

But that's the problem. If our government doesn't recognize Bitcoin as a legitimate currency, then the charge of money laundering is generally invalid.

Ross wasn't a kingpin. He was not the leader of a criminal enterprise. He was the administrator of a website, and nothing more. He did not organize drug sales, nor did recruit people to sell any illegal products. He provided a place in which illicit goods could be sold secretly and without expected retaliation. His being accused of narcotics trafficking and computer hacking is like me building a house, letting people into it, and being charged with drug trafficking because the people within my home have trafficked drugs. I have moved no weight nor have I deliberately created a criminal enterprise, yet I am considered responsible because it's my home. And I think that this topic makes for interesting discussion (as we are having), and even though we disagree, it prompts a thoughtful response. I think everyone would probably have an opinion on this, and as I said in my original post, it is a matter of crowning or criminalizing Ross.

And yeah, freedom is an illusion. But it shouldn't be. And it wouldn't be if people actually stood up for their rights.

Check my earlier post, you missed the point of the legitimacy of the BitCoin. You can't be charged for money laundering if it's not real money.




You think the issue Crucio is asking is ¨Should he be charged for trafficking since he didn't use real money?¨, when the question is ¨Should he be charged for money laundering when it isn't real money, and should he be charged for drug trafficking when he didn't partake in any actual transactions involving drugs.¨




If providing the platform for people to do drug transactions makes him a criminal, then if you wanna get **** about it, the government provided the platform(street corner) where someone bought drugs from another, they should be tried. That's exactly the kind of thing that is happening here.

Oh I see, I guess I didn't read the OP correctly. But yeah he shouldn't be charged if he was just the administrator.

 

[Joe Black]

I may be wrong and this might seem irrelevant, but I think your example about Versuvio is not a good one. If my memory serves, the site is run based on the laws of the Netherlands so American laws don't apply to him.

 

[Cruciatus]

You're missing the point, it's not the actual value of what you're exchanging but the exchange of something in return for drugs. That's literally the definition of trafficking.

The problem with this is that Ross never exchanged drugs. He collected commission from exchanges on his website, the same way that the government collects a tax on every item you buy. The Bitcoin he gained was from other people's transactions, not ones he made himself. It was essentially a small fee he collected for providing this server to people; a salary, for all intensive purposes.

I may be wrong and this might seem irrelevant, but I think your example about Versuvio is not a good one. If my memory serves, the site is run based on the laws of the Netherlands so American laws don't apply to him.

It was meant to be a relatable comparison, not a foolproof scenario. It's the same essential concept.

 

[Jazzy Stardust]

Okay my bad I ****ed up, you can stop quoting me now.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I may be wrong and this might seem irrelevant, but I think your example about Versuvio is not a good one. If my memory serves, the site is run based on the laws of the Netherlands so American laws don't apply to him.

And this site was based in Iceland, and the US government took it out. Analogy fits perfectly.

 

[Tennis Robot]

That's a dangerous game.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Okay my bad I ****ed up, you can stop quoting me now.

Yeah you realize sometimes we quote you and start typing before we actually see your ¨My bad¨ posts, right?