[Theory] The Mystery that is still : obito, Madara and the Masked man "Tobi"

[Mr Hiru]

He has proof very legit proof, but the problem is everyone refuses to take time and read this slowly, read it, scroll back up, try to understand, repeat.. This is indeed a well thought out thread ^~^

First of all, I used enough time to read the entire theory, paragraph by paragraph (not only this, but all of Minamoto's threads regards the possibilty of Tobi being Madara).

minamoto only found vague hints that could be interpreted in multiple ways, but at the same time he is forcefully ignoring the new information given by Kishimoto in the war/juubi arc.

For example: The fact that the Obito without the mask was still conscious that he had as objective the Tsuki no Me, there wasn't any way for him being controlled at this time.

Man, it's like minamoto is in denial or something... can't he believe that Madara convinced Obito to follow the plan?

Obito became "the savior", Madara remembered Obito about this before Obito impaled him... It's not like Madara controlled him, Obito really was Madara's successor, and Obito said that he wasn't Madara anymore.

...if minamoto were right, Rin's death would be a waste right now, because Madara could just be controlling Obito like minamoto proposes.

But no, Madara had an entire plan. Ergo, minamoto's possibility is not plotwise.

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Finally, let me tell you something. [arrogance ]I'm the proof guy of these forums. I know when a theory is well constructed. [/arrogance], and I can tell you right now: A good theory is never based on belief or trust, but... in most of his threads, he begs for the trust of readers.

A good theoriest never ask for trust, he ask for open minds. Trust = Belief = Lack of rational use of brain.

---

This opinion of mine is not intended for bashing. I'm just being objective, my 5 cents so OP can improve.

 

[Voidstep]

[..........]

Madara's BODY!!..has secrets engraved in the uchiha stone??!!!!...WHAT WHAT WHAT???...wait wait plz :

-1st : how can Madara''s body have secrets when the uchiha Tablet was written many years befor madara's birth??!!!..MY MIND IS FREEZING HERE!!!...so doesn't that mean that Madara could modify the uchiha stone wrriting and write it to what it fits him??...but wait!!!.. that would also look like stupidityy from madara to write the secrets of his body on the uchiha stone, wich could be his weak points!!!!......

[..........]

da fuq!?
the uchiha stone has the secrets of the uchihas doujutsu and such, therefore it has Madara's body secrets, since he's an uchiha and all....... >.>

"MY MIND IS FREEZING HERE!!!".....

 

[minamoto]

First of all, I used enough time to read the entire theory, paragraph by paragraph (not only this, but all of Minamoto's threads regards the possibilty of Tobi being Madara).

minamoto only found vague hints that could be interpreted in multiple ways, but at the same time he is forcefully ignoring the new information given by Kishimoto in the war/juubi arc.

For example: The fact that the Obito without the mask was still conscious that he had as objective the Tsuki no Me, there wasn't any way for him being controlled at this time.

Man, it's like minamoto is in denial or something... can't he believe that Madara convinced Obito to follow the plan?

Obito became "the savior", Madara remembered Obito about this before Obito impaled him... It's not like Madara controlled him, Obito really was Madara's successor, and Obito said that he wasn't Madara anymore.

...if minamoto were right, Rin's death would be a waste right now, because Madara could just be controlling Obito like minamoto proposes.

But no, Madara had an entire plan. Ergo, minamoto's possibility is not plotwise.

what you said is quite the contrary...according to my tobidara theory it led me to deduce that madara planned Rin's death.. ive predicted 1 year ago that Rin's death was planned by Madara...who controlled the mist village and even mizukage (the mizukage part is still not revealed ) and finally in chapter 675,it happned to be true....the reason why i theorized madara planned rin's death was just the result of me thinking tobi to be Madara....also i am not in denial of anything its just your mind lacks reasoning to understand my theory

 

[Mr Hiru]

what you said is quite the contrary...according to my tobidara theory it led me to deduce that madara planned Rin's death.. ive predicted 1 year ago that Rin's death was planned by Madara...who controlled the mist village and even mizukage (the mizukage part is still not revealed ) and finally in chapter 675,it happned to be true....the reason why i theorized madara planned rin's death was just the result of me thinking tobi to be Madara....also i am not in denial of anything its just your mind lacks reasoning to understand my theory

Au contraire... if Madara were Tobi (Madara -Tobidara- controlled Obito directly), Rin should not have the need for death. Madara could have just controlled Obito without the need of a mask.

My mind doesn't lack the reasoning. It is you -lacking enough humility- that isn't able to see the contradiction existing in your own theory.

There are few other contradictions in this thread, but I'd prefer to use just one example for you to try to improve, because honestly... when you try to make sense, sometimes you just fail.

 

[Draven]

what you said is quite the contrary...according to my tobidara theory it led me to deduce that madara planned Rin's death.. ive predicted 1 year ago that Rin's death was planned by Madara...who controlled the mist village and even mizukage (the mizukage part is still not revealed ) and finally in chapter 675,it happned to be true....the reason why i theorized madara planned rin's death was just the result of me thinking tobi to be Madara....also i am not in denial of anything its just your mind lacks reasoning to understand my theory

dude listen carefully minamoto while some stuff you say seems show some intelligence. the thing is no matter how many people blow holes through your theory you refuse to see anyone elses point except your own. 9 different threads 100s of people blew holes in your theory and you just repeat the same phrase over and over again instead of debating with them and trying to prove your right you just continually ignore everyone else and continue on your self indulgent, deluded path. You dont listen to anyone else but yourself this is why alot of NB has put you on ignore and this is why you had to create your Xantai Alt so you could credit your own theories since everyone else has started ignoring you.

 

[ministerC4]

Au contraire... if Madara were Tobi (Madara -Tobidara- controlled Obito directly), Rin should not have the need for death. Madara could have just controlled Obito without the need of a mask.

My mind doesn't lack the reasoning. It is you -lacking enough humility- that isn't able to see the contradiction existing in your own theory.

There are few other contradictions in this thread, but I'd prefer to use just one example for you to try to improve, because honestly... when you try to make sense, sometimes you just fail.

Madara's seal required his victim to have darkness in their heart this was his way to get it into obito's heart.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Madara's seal required his victim to have darkness in their heart this was his way to get it into obito's heart.

...what seal, if you can provide the moment where Madara put it on Obito? Also, I'd like to know about the seal's name, a database where this seal is named.

That's the proof I'm waiting for, you know. If that proof doesn't exist, then the following step after that "supposed seal" is pure fanfiction.

---

PS: But if we consider that seal to exist effectively, Obito's rehabilitation can be a good moment to put it, I know. But there is a great problem: Obito never mentioned anything like that in the future, even when he was a Jin, thus making the possibility of a seal being inserted in Obito... out of place.

 

[minamoto]

Au contraire... if Madara were Tobi (Madara -Tobidara- controlled Obito directly), Rin should not have the need for death. Madara could have just controlled Obito without the need of a mask.

My mind doesn't lack the reasoning. It is you -lacking enough humility- that isn't able to see the contradiction existing in your own theory.

There are few other contradictions in this thread, but I'd prefer to use just one example for you to try to improve, because honestly... when you try to make sense, sometimes you just fail.

ecoute moi attentivement....i made the theory of madara planing rin's death 1 year ago...saying madara controlled the mizukage at that time...many disagreed and called me stupid(in the same way many are now calling me stupid for thinking tobi is madara)...becuz obito revealed to kakashi the truth of rin (story of sanbi)...now my point is that.. many readers thought obito knew the truth of rin's death...but it seems that obito himself doesn't know the truth...thats why we should'nt trust his obito-being-tobi flashbacks....

me being right on Madara planing rin's death just made me belive that tobidara is90 % true theory...the only thing that trolled me abit..is tobidara not being the one inside spiral zetsu......he has to be somwhere or still inside obito's body..

 

[minamoto]

Madara's seal required his victim to have darkness in their heart this was his way to get it into obito's heart.

that's exactly what i wanted to explain Mr Hiru...thx a lot for summing it up in just few words...

 

[minamoto]

dude listen carefully minamoto while some stuff you say seems show some intelligence. the thing is no matter how many people blow holes through your theory you refuse to see anyone elses point except your own. 9 different threads 100s of people blew holes in your theory and you just repeat the same phrase over and over again instead of debating with them and trying to prove your right you just continually ignore everyone else and continue on your self indulgent, deluded path. You dont listen to anyone else but yourself this is why alot of NB has put you on ignore and this is why you had to create your Xantai Alt so you could credit your own theories since everyone else has started ignoring you.

you and the other annoying guys dont interest me..unless you apology and act nice i will welcom you here and respond you back

 

[flyingpigwaffle]

i'll go ------------------> .




The Mystery that is still Uchiha Madara



All started after the Battle of Madara Vs Hashirama...where Madara was believed to be dead :

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Thus if Madara was attached to the Mazo and could'nt move outside and if the Zetsus weren't created at that time then :

1-how did he got outside and implant his Rinnegans to Nagato??!

2-how did he kidnapp Rin and place a curse seal in her heart??

3-how did he controll the Mist Shinobies and plan the whole Rin's death??

4- if the uzumaki's land destruction was planned By Madara then how did he do it??

old Madara done actions that maybe a skilled shinobi could'nt have done!!

Probably some1 committed those actions...



another Madara Mysterious Mystery is :

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Madara's BODY!!..has secrets engraved in the uchiha stone??!!!!...WHAT WHAT WHAT???...wait wait plz :

-1st : how can Madara''s body have secrets when the uchiha Tablet was written many years befor madara's birth??!!!..MY MIND IS FREEZING HERE!!!...so doesn't that mean that Madara could modify the uchiha stone wrriting and write it to what it fits him??...but wait!!!.. that would also look like stupidityy from madara to write the secrets of his body on the uchiha stone, wich could be his weak points!!!!......

-2nd- what in the world are THE SECRETS OF MADARA'S BODY !!!!...and why exactly Madara's BODY secrets..and not Madara as a whole...ITS AS IF MADARA'S BODY CAN BE SOUL-LESS BUT NOT MINDLESS (maybe maybe)..


Note : the old Madara's body that was attached to the gedo mazo and spoke with obito , could be madara's not actuall body..that means old madara could leave his old vessel in the cave and manage to move out through some other means..like possessing another humain body and use it like a vessel..or through an artificial vessel...there could have been 2 madara's runing around at that time


Conclusion : Madara is the Mysterious Mystery of this manga

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The Mystery that is still the Masked man Tobi


NOW let's see the Masked man's Mystery:

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OHH YESS..everyone will say the Mystery of tobi is over..and he is obito...REALLY???!!...YA THINK SO?!..for the sake of the one who said : "one's truth might be another's illusion, WE ALL LIVE INSIDE OUR FANTASIES"...do you think Kihsimoto would base Tobi's Mystery on some obvious Hints like : hair similarity, and the Magic name trick : tobi=obito= tobito!!....and orange color?..NOOO!!...the Obito reveal was just the simplex part of Tobi's whole mystery...as you know kishimoto stated that he wrote naruto manga for kids in 1st place...kishimoto even made it obvious or i dare say he spoiled Tobi's identity starting from chapter 594, when kakashi started recognizing the identity of the masked man to be his past friend obito,..you think really a mystery that run for 5 years will be revealed in such predictable manner by kishi??!..OF COURSE NOT !!!...thus becuz kishimoto write the manga for all ages and tastes he created A COMPLEX PART FOR TOBI'S MYSTERY...and the complex part is the reall ID of TOBI...the complex part that will be revealed when the manga nears its end, requires that the readers read the manga from the begining and analyse it...cuz why?......Naruto Manga for me = THE UCHIHA STONE TABLET..what it needs is deciphring and not just reading..you wanna decipher the manga? then get the rinegan first...or at least sharingan!!...how you get the Rinnegan its through analyzing and deep understandng of the Manga..so the ones who will work hard to find tobi's true id and not rely on obvious hints are the TRUE NARUTO READERS...SO LETS ACTIVATE RINNEGAN AND SEE THROUGH KISHIMOTO'S ILLUSION!!...

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first- the explanations of tobi's mystery we've seen from chapter 599 till chapter 607...you think its the truth??..NOOO
but why??...simple..becuz the explanations weve' seen from chapters 599 to 607..WERE JUST TRUTH FROM OBITO'S PERSPECTIVE !!!...it was just truth of Obito's flashbacks!!....

The Authenticity of obito's flashbacks :

-due to the boulder that crushed obito's head, this caused him to have troubles of rememberness and rejecting his past self plus denying his self-identity (im not one)..it also cauzed him to have Delusions (Rin Rin Rin)...

-the curse seal Madara placed on obito's heart and the chakra rodes also played role in controlling obito and erasing some of his memories....

-now let me ask you few Questions :

1-would you trust flashbacks of some1 who was controlled and had delusions ??

2-did we see the flashbacks of the one who found Obito and healed him (madara)?...NOO WE didnt!!...hence the whole truth is in Madara's flashbacks!!!....

3-: did we see the rest of Tobi's Mystery explanations like :

-how he manipulated Mizukage yagura

-how itachi and kisame believed tobi to be UCHIHA MADARA

-how the masked man controlled kurama

-how he slaughtred the uchiha clan..??..

NOOO WE DIDN'T...why?...cuz kishimoto skipped them purposely becuz we will see the rest of tobi's mystery explanations in the new reveal of tobi that is coming soon...

conclusion bito's flashbacks OR the truth of tobi from obito's perspective is vague and untrustworthy = LOGICALLY IT WILL END UP BEING AN ILLUSION...and here i bring you one of the wisest quotes in the history of manga said by the wise of the sharingan itachi uchiha :

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what a genious quote !!..this quote is the reason why i keep reading Naruto Manga..this quote is what Tobi's Mystery is about...this quote IS THE MANGA ITSELF...never ever call something truth untill you get full understanding of it otherwise your truth will end up being a mere illusion...that is why itachi told sasuke to get strong eyes if he ever wants to find out the truth...and that is why, we the readers, should becarfull from kishimoto's illusion, cuz like how kihsimoto fooled us into making us belive itachi was a bad guy then revealed his truth to be a nice guy who joined akatsuki to protect the village, he is also able to fool us and make us think that tobi is obito , then reveals the truth of the masked man to be someone else...and at this point kishi is a genious mangaka, becuz he brought the conflict between the concepts of "Reality" VS "illusion" within tobi's mystery..its similar to senju vs uchiha...or what kisame described as "LIVING LIES"...so kishi basically filled his manga with "living lies"..but its not trolling as we think..its for the sake to teach us how to be able to see through Reality's illusion..


-Now read what the masked man told konan befor she died...he simply tells here..." you konan since you are about to die ,i will tell you the truth of ME" :

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WHY WOULD ToBI LIE TO KONAN WHEN HE WAS SURE OF HER DEATH????...does he even seem like he is obito liying?

facts to be deduced ...The masked man :

1- gave Nagato the Rinnegan

2- HE MET YAHIKO and spurred him to form akatsuki = Madara is the reall akatsuki founder not yahiko !!....

- remember kishimoto still didn't show us how Madara met yahiko and spurred him to form akatsuki, or how could Madara done that when he was attached to the gedo mazo

now if you go back to the missing explanations from Tobi's mystery...you would notice that they are all RELATED TO UCHIHA MADARA AND HIS ABILITIES :...

1-who could controll kurama with his sharingan in the history of Uchihas?= MADARA !!

2-who could've possibly met yahiko =MADARA cuz obito was a baby at that time

3-who could controll yagura in the same way he controlled the Mist shinobies ? = MADARA!!

4-who would slaughter the uchihas becuz of a grudge?? = OBITO?...NOOO = ITS MADARA !!!

AND AT THIS POINT EXACTLY!! many will disagree with me saying obito did those evil incidents becuz they were part of him pretending to be Madara.

but the thing that if obito committed those evil actions...WHY DIDN'T kishi reveal those details in the obito flashbacks?...why didn't obito for exemple retry and controll kurama with his sharingan during war arc??..why didn't obito say anything about UCHIHA CLAN MASSACRE,when the uchiha didn't do anything to him?....not only that but also..why didn't obito show those bada$$$ traits of the masked man tobi and why his character suddenly changed after his mask broke??

again many will disagree with me saying obito did those evil incidents becuz they were part of him pretending to be Madara.....and my answer to this is this quote from itachi again :"one's truth might be another's illusion , we all live inside our fantasies" "everyone is bound within his sphere of knowledge"...Most of you had it as conformed truth that obito was the one who committed those evil incidents..but my truth is different then your's..cuz i believe that the one who controlled mizukage ,slaughtred the uchiha,and controled the fox WAS INDEED UCHIHA MADARA ...and not obito!!!... THERE'S A MIRAGE and illusion created by kishi within the Mystery fo tobi....LET ME POINT OUT HOW TOBI'S MYSTERY CONTAINS MIRAGE AND FUZZY TRUTH...AND WHY TH REALL MASKED MAN IS MADARA!! :


look at this masterpiece panel from kishi :

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your intentions all were directed toward obito and how he started becoming the masked man Tobi..BUT you just neglect the old-Madra part...cuz the truth of this image is that Madara finally foun a host to seal his other part within and become the villain Tobi..


-Notice the preparations done by Madara befor he disconnected himself from the Mazo..

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those preparations contains madara sealing himself within obito

then old Madara died...or rather he disconnected himself from the mazo...and here the question arises : DID MADARA REALLY DIE??....

let's see what Madara said about it...

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Madara didn't say he was dead...he just stated that "being revived with Rinnetensei was part of his plan..AND YET THE PLAN DIDNT GO AS EXPECTED"...Now in the Naruto world just becuz you were being revived does that necessary means you were dead??...AND HERE LIES THE TRICK !!..just think about it..if old Madara knew he would be revived in the same state he died in (old and weakned) his death would be pointless..i mean why was the act of being revived was so much important for madara??..THUS..the reason why madara planned to be revived with rinnetensei was TO GET HIS BODY BACK TO ITS GOLDEN AGE (youth) so he can be the juubi's jinchuriki !!!...however madara didn't die completly...what Madara did is that (theoritic part) he sealed his empty shell within obito and used him as a weaker vessel untill he gets his reall vessel revived...

-let me give you an exemple : in the Manga we had 2 juubi's runing around at the same time :

1-Gedo Mazo : wich is THE EMPTY SHELL of Juubi

2- the tailed beasts wich are the Juubi devided into 9 bijuus...so when the gedo Mazo goes back to its formerself..its will be come THE JUUBI REVIVED...Madara might have used the same jutsu (sozo banbutsu) to seal his empty shell within obito's body...just like how hagoromo sealed gedo mazo within the moon....thus Rikudo Madara is the reall vessel of tobimadara...and tobimadara is the empty shell of Rikudo Madara..BUT ITS MADARA !!..wich means there are 2 madara's runing around now Tobidara and Rikidu Madara :

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The Secrets of Madara's body engraved in the uchiha stone might be the key that explains the existence of 2 madara's at the same time...


-The Nature of tobimadara or the 2nd Madara who is the reall villain tobi..



Tobimadara is weakest form of Madara ..he isn't Black zetsu..he isn't a limbo...HE IS MADARA !!...but a Madara who isn't in his reall body...its the immortal part of Madara that kept living within obito controlling him..

what is obito?? :

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what happned to obito exactly after the kanabi bridge incident??!!...THE TRUTH IS IN MADARA'S FLASHBACKS!!

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-we have 2 Greatest shinobies :

1-One who is known with his trustworthiness..i mean KISAME HOCHIGAKE

2-another one who is known with his Wisdom...i mean itachi uchiha..

Notice how kishimoto put both of kisame and itachi in same dual team...BECUZ THEY BOTH KNOW WHO TOBI IS !!

1st-Kisame Hochikage : Tobi was looking for some loyal members to start with his Moon eye plan , he appraoches Kisame and tells him he is Madara :

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............years later....2nd meeting

Tobi acting like goofy appraoching kisame...

goofy Tobi : Kisame senpei !!

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Kisame is a skilled and trustworthy shinobi... his 2nd meeting with tobi clearly confirms that the face he saw was the same he had seen during his first meeting with tobi....and here comes the mindfvcking question :

why did kisame call tobi "Madara" when tobi was revealed to be obito??....what face did kisame exactly see?..tobito or tobidara?!

let me try answer this please but 1st notice this manga pics

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that humain flesh is our 2nd Madara...what happens is that when Tobimadara takes full controll of obito's body

Madara cells will surface on obito's body..making tobimadara emerge..while obito become fully possessed by tobimadara

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thus what kisame saw could be the face of Madara surfacing on obito's body...or at least obito having signs of being controlled

-The purpose of the curse seal Madara placed on obito's heart was to turn off obito's consiousness when tobimadara (the insides) possess him...that is why obito wasn't aware of his reall identity and him being controlled by the 2nd madara, though he might have anticipated Madara would never trust him and would place some curse seal on him..AND YET OBITO WAS NEVER AWARE OF THE SECOND MADARA INVADING HIS BODY....

Madara outsmarted Obito...Madara did his best not to allow obito realize he is being controlled by a 2nd Madara....and for this madara is genious +smart+sharpthinkner+ i dont know what to say.. so guess what Madara did ?:

1-he seals his other part with obito(when obito was still fainted from the boulder crush)

2-he places a curse seal on his heart ..

1- just befor he disconncts himself from the mazo..Madara tells obito to pose as madara and carry on the MEP...why?..so that when tobimadara takes full controll over obito's body..obito will think that he managed to fool other shinobies like kisame and itachi into making them belive he was Madara..but in truth it was Madara indeed speaking through obito...(madara tricked obito with simple words)

2-Madara told obito he would teach him Rikudo no jutsus and inyoton, so that when the 2nd madara possess obito's body and fight others or controlls kiyubi , obito would'nt doubt about his new incredible strenght despite him being 14 years old..

3-Madara the mastermind already calculated that obito will try to revenge on the mist village for killing Rin and search the truth (why she died) by controlling the Mizukage.....and here is kishimoto's genious illusion casted on the readers becuz many will think that obito will controll yagura out of revenge for killing Rin...but in truth it was MADARA IN HIS FORM TOBI, who is going to controll mizukage yagura just like how he controlled the mist shinobies...BECUZ HE WAS JUST CARRYING ON HIS OLD AGENDA THAT INVOLVES THE MIST VILLAGE !!!..


BUT!!!..there was one genious man from the uchiha clan who saw through Madara's deception and found him ..cuz tobi being obito and acting like goofy guy were just MIRAGE for his reall identity..like how old Madara hide himself in a cave and didn't want the world to know about his existence, he will also hide himself within obito's body and act like goofy guy..

itachi uchiha = the wise of the sharingan

Was itachi fooled by Obito?

-itachi was memeber of A.N.B.U and akatsuki + he has got the Mangekyou sharingan..

according to the 3rd hokage saruTobi :

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now the Kestion how did itachi find out tobi to be uchiha Madara?

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-itachi uchiha showed considerable knowledge about Madara wich i bet obito himself doesn't even know..so by reading the uchiha documents + deciphring the uchiha stone itachi learned some secrets about Madara like :

1-the secrets of Madara's body in the uchiha stone

2-Madara's imortality :

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3- and most importantly Madara being the empty shell of his formerself :

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-the masked man was amazed how itachi discovred his secrets and how he had considerable knowledge about Madara...thats why masked man tobidara had great respect toward itachi....when the masked man tobimadara learned the truth of itachi's reall mission, he sympathized a lot with him....(Madara has feelings too ya know?)..but at the same time...when tobi saw the harsh reality that made itachi receive all the hatred of all konoha..this just made him stck more in the inifnit tsukoyomi and despise reality ...both of itachi and tobimadara respect each others despite them being enemies...

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-kisame , itachi , and tobimadara belong to the league of bada$$es..whereas obito doesnt...


Notice this inconsitency resulting from tobi being obito when tobi appraoched kisame :

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-when itachi told Sasuke the history of Madara through a flashback genjutsu..we see itachi already knows how uchiha Madara looked like..wich makes the possibility of itachi being fooled by obito illogical....

-itachi uses similar eye thechniques to that of Madara (yasaka magatma, tsukoyomi, sosano) becuz Madara (tobi) trained him...

Notice how Tobi keeps telling kabuto that he was the one who fought hashirama and stole his cells and that Nagato's rinnegan was his to begin with,even when kabuto knew tobi's secret!!

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Notice how tobidara was upset becuz nagato didn't revive him(madara) with Rinnetensei

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obito has no reason to be upset that nagato didn't revive Madara,becuz he himself planned to betray Madara and never revive him..


-when konan was about to die, tobi revealed her his true identity..

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-the masked man Minato defeated was Madara...but a madara without his reall vessel...that is why the masked man congratulated Minato saying : " you have no idea who you just defeated now..i congratulate you, you dizerve the title of hokage"..simply bcuz minato defeated Madara

-the one who controlled kurama was madara that is why kurama said "...YOU !!"...meaning so its you madara !!..

-the reason why tobi had madara's voice when obito was 14...is becuz he was being possed by madara...and since kishimoto didn't explain why tobi had madara's voice then it's still just an opinion to say obito copycated madara..

-The goofy tobi was the spiral zetsu...becuz at some time in the past tobidara integrated spiral zetsu wiithin obito's/his
body to allow him act like a goofy guy and lead akatsuki frm the shadow.....so basically tobi is 3 persons : obito and madara and spiral zetsu....but the boss tobi is Madara...Madara is the one who controlled both obito and spiral zetsu in the same body....the spiral zetsu and Tobimadara are the "INSIDES" who white zetsu was talking about..cuz they were INSIDE obito's body...

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i thought the man who was inside spiral zetsu could be tobimadara, but i guess i was wrong and hasty..and i have to admit that ignore the process how tobimadara will emerge...maybe if rikudo madara gets sealed, then tobimadara will emerge....so the finall truth of tobi will be revealed after the inifnit tsukoyomi....but why?...its becuz tobi's new reveal isn't a lie created by the mugen tsukoyoi's genjutsu ...its worst then that its "Reality's illusion"..its a "living lie"..becuz Madara in the end will show the allied shinobis how this reality is full of lies....Madara will prove it in the battlefield that his moon eye plan and philosophie are worth implementing...what you thought was truth called tobi is obito will become a mere illusion ..and in the end madara succeed in fooling everyone

Didnt read lol

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[Draven]

you and the other annoying guys dont interest me..unless you apology and act nice i will welcom you here and respond you back

why should i apologies to you when everytime i commented to you first all you did was insult me then go onto telling me my logic was wrong and another thing i dont care if you respond to me when you refuse to listen to other people and just continue your petty insults

 

[Mr Hiru]

ecoute moi attentivement....i made the theory of madara planing rin's death 1 year ago...saying madara controlled the mizukage at that time...many disagreed and called me stupid(in the same way many are now calling me stupid for thinking tobi is madara)...becuz obito revealed to kakashi the truth of rin (story of sanbi)...now my point is that.. many readers thought obito knew the truth of rin's death...but it seems that obito himself doesn't know the truth...thats why we should'nt trust his obito-being-tobi flashbacks....

me being right on Madara planing rin's death just made me belive that tobidara is90 % true theory...the only thing that trolled me abit..is tobidara not being the one inside spiral zetsu......he has to be somwhere or still inside obito's body..

Back then I was one of those who thought of your possibility of Rin being killed due Madara's plan was good enough and plotwise. You actually made sense.

But being right once doesn't mean that you're always right. You're mixing pears with apples here, and I can't accept that kind of behaviours inside the theorists of the forums.

Back then I also predicted that Naruto was going to use Senjutsu to kick Madara's ass, and my prediction became true.

What if now I told that Madara will leave shinobi inside the IT and he will travel to the past to kill Kaguya Ootsutsuki so he can avoid the possibility of chakra being discovered? Hey, Hagoromo Ootsutsuki, who bears a pair of Rinnegan and a Sharingan, without the Juubi in his body, can travel through time. Madara also has these features. Manga already given us this information.

Can I say that I'm right if I tell this? Can I?

...the answer is easy: No. Reason: It is not plotwise. And to assume that one can be right because one was right in the past is arrogance in its purests state.

What can I say about your statements?

me being right on Madara planing rin's death just made me belive that tobidara is90 % true theory...the only thing that trolled me abit..is tobidara not being the one inside spiral zetsu......he has to be somwhere or still inside obito's body..

That your logic even fails in this part. When senjutsu is introduced into the body of someone, the zetsus can't have control over natural energy, thus making them flee from the body.

Manga already shown us that the Juubi Jinchuurikis (and those who manipulate the Gudou Damas) are people who uses natural energy, meaning that it is impossible that there is a Zetsu inside Obito's body right now.

Juugo already did the trick with Sasuke, and Juugo is nothing compared to the Juubi.

...so please, I'd ask you to reconsider. Don't put things where they are not unless you have solid proof to support your statements. Otherwise, your theory would only lose credit (main reason of why there so much skeptics towards your threads).

 

[Byron123]

thx so much man....actually there are some memebers who stalk me and harass me in every thread i make...all i do is ingnoring them..as for others who dont agree with me and respond me with nice feed back..thx to them and i respect every criticism as long as its respectfull....while the others who agrees with me I PROMISE GOD I WONT DISPOINT THEM..I THANK THEM A LOT

Minamoto it's not about harassing. You would have the right to say that if despite you giving proper answers, people, me included, continued asking you things. BUT in all of your threads that I posed you questions, in every single one of them, you could not give a proper answer. Anyone who check your threads can see that, especially in this one:

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Whenever I was pushing you, you were simply trying to change subject or you called my arguments weak without being capable of countering them nonetheless. Perhaps, if you were to start to give real answers then things might change.

First of all, I used enough time to read the entire theory, paragraph by paragraph (not only this, but all of Minamoto's threads regards the possibilty of Tobi being Madara).

minamoto only found vague hints that could be interpreted in multiple ways, but at the same time he is forcefully ignoring the new information given by Kishimoto in the war/juubi arc.

For example: The fact that the Obito without the mask was still conscious that he had as objective the Tsuki no Me, there wasn't any way for him being controlled at this time.

Man, it's like minamoto is in denial or something... can't he believe that Madara convinced Obito to follow the plan?

Obito became "the savior", Madara remembered Obito about this before Obito impaled him... It's not like Madara controlled him, Obito really was Madara's successor, and Obito said that he wasn't Madara anymore.

...if minamoto were right, Rin's death would be a waste right now, because Madara could just be controlling Obito like minamoto proposes.

But no, Madara had an entire plan. Ergo, minamoto's possibility is not plotwise.

---

Finally, let me tell you something. [arrogance ]I'm the proof guy of these forums. I know when a theory is well constructed. [/arrogance], and I can tell you right now: A good theory is never based on belief or trust, but... in most of his threads, he begs for the trust of readers.

A good theoriest never ask for trust, he ask for open minds. Trust = Belief = Lack of rational use of brain.

---

This opinion of mine is not intended for bashing. I'm just being objective, my 5 cents so OP can improve.

Amen, one of the most logical members of this base. It's not about what you support but how you do it and on what extent you stick to your guns.

ecoute moi attentivement....i made the theory of madara planing rin's death 1 year ago...saying madara controlled the mizukage at that time...many disagreed and called me stupid(in the same way many are now calling me stupid for thinking tobi is madara)...becuz obito revealed to kakashi the truth of rin (story of sanbi)...now my point is that.. many readers thought obito knew the truth of rin's death...but it seems that obito himself doesn't know the truth...thats why we should'nt trust his obito-being-tobi flashbacks....

me being right on Madara planing rin's death just made me belive that tobidara is90 % true theory...the only thing that trolled me abit..is tobidara not being the one inside spiral zetsu......he has to be somwhere or still inside obito's body..

Minamoto that's not something important, many people had predicted that, me included, although with a way more far- fetched theory.

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[minamoto]

Back then I was one of those who thought of your possibility of Rin being killed due Madara's plan was good enough and plotwise. You actually made sense.

But being right once doesn't mean that you're always right. You're mixing pears with apples here, and I can't accept that kind of behaviours inside the theorists of the forums.

Back then I also predicted that Naruto was going to use Senjutsu to kick Madara's ass, and my prediction became true.

What if now I told that Madara will leave shinobi inside the IT and he will travel to the past to kill Kaguya Ootsutsuki so he can avoid the possibility of chakra being discovered? Hey, Hagoromo Ootsutsuki, who bears a pair of Rinnegan and a Sharingan, without the Juubi in his body, can travel through time. Madara also has these features. Manga already given us this information.

Can I say that I'm right if I tell this? Can I?

...the answer is easy: No. Reason: It is not plotwise. And to assume that one can be right because one was right in the past is arrogance in its purests state.

What can I say about your statements?



That your logic even fails in this part. When senjutsu is introduced into the body of someone, the zetsus can't have control over natural energy, thus making them flee from the body.

Manga already shown us that the Juubi Jinchuurikis (and those who manipulate the Gudou Damas) are people who uses natural energy, meaning that it is impossible that there is a Zetsu inside Obito's body right now.

Juugo already did the trick with Sasuke, and Juugo is nothing compared to the Juubi.

...so please, I'd ask you to reconsider. Don't put things where they are not unless you have solid proof to support your statements. Otherwise, your theory would only lose credit (main reason of why there so much skeptics towards your threads).

plzz try and understand me..when i said My prediction of Rin's death planned by madara being true...i didn't mean to be proud or show my ego...my point was that Rin's death bein planned by madara just proved that my tobidra theory might be 90 %..in the same way when i was wrong about tobidara being inside yamato...i dont care bro...all i care is to see the true reveal of tobi's identity...listen bro..we are manga fans right?...why we not just aply this quote from itachi to solve our conflicts :" every one is bound within his sphere of knowledge"..you have your own tobi truth..and i got my own tobi truth...that just to explain you im not in denial of anything...i read the manga well..im not stupid to say tobi is madara...so we better respect each others cuz IM NOT GONNA GO BACK ON MY TOBIDARA THEORY

 

[Byron123]

plzz try and understand me..when i said My prediction of Rin's death planned by madara being true...i didn't mean to be proud or show my ego...my point was that Rin's death bein planned by madara just proved that my tobidra theory might be 90 %..in the same way when i was wrong about tobidara being inside yamato...i dont care bro...all i care is to see the true reveal of tobi's identity...listen bro..we are manga fans right?...why we not just aply this quote from itachi to solve our conflicts :" every one is bound within his sphere of knowledge"..you have your own tobi truth..and i got my own tobi truth...that just to explain you im not in denial of anything...i read the manga well..im not stupid to say tobi is madara...so we better respect each others cuz IM NOT GONNA GO BACK ON MY TOBIDARA THEORY

Isn't that what exactly you say?

 

[Uchiha Samater]

Dude you miss the point of
Those refuting this theory

You literally ignore all new information which is canon and blows the theory out of water

For example, the stone tablet was left behind for The descendants of Ashura and so forth who could read it (with the sharingan, mangekyou, and rinnegan)
This was the secret of MadAras body,(I.e Ashura + Indra = Rinnegan)

You mention "tobidara" as you put it , was more than half zetsu and use a scan where obito showed a hole in himself which was revealed to be A Genjutsu battle between the two

You ignore things like how Zetsu is only loyal to Madara and Obito betrayed madara and kept up his "loyal" persona due to Zetsu being around (even let Kakashi hit the internal point which Madara was going to control him
By if all else failed - which is another piece of information you conveniently forgot)

You showed a scan of "Tobidara" and his a
Healing itself during the battle with Naruto and co.

Dude hashiramas DNA is self healing, Madara had the same thing occur to him when he fought the alliance blind , he even simply attached a zetsu arm when he lost his (again this was forgotten)

Now when I say the following I'm being honest and not trying to disrespect:

This theory is ridiculous, very ridiculous

You have taken statements like "shell of his former self" and thought of it as literal, (even though this was refuted by later manga chapters)

You ignore new information that explains backstory , secrets of the uchiha the rinnegan and obito and madara , which makes it even more ridiculous

I mean I'm writing this on my phone of the top of my head in what has been like 2 minutes. Not to say I am any smarter or deductive than you are , but it goes to show that this theory has no legs to stand on my friend if it is this easily refuted

 

[G Godly 0 forms 0]

dude....................LOL

 

[Mr Hiru]

plzz try and understand me..when i said My prediction of Rin's death planned by madara being true...i didn't mean to be proud or show my ego...my point was that Rin's death bein planned by madara just proved that my tobidra theory might be 90 %..in the same way when i was wrong about tobidara being inside yamato...i dont care bro...all i care is to see the true reveal of tobi's identity...listen bro..we are manga fans right?...why we not just aply this quote from itachi to solve our conflicts :" every one is bound within his sphere of knowledge"..you have your own tobi truth..and i got my own tobi truth...that just to explain you im not in denial of anything...i read the manga well..im not stupid to say tobi is madara...so we better respect each others cuz IM NOT GONNA GO BACK ON MY TOBIDARA THEORY

I'll answer part by part.

when i said My prediction of Rin's death planned by madara being true...i didn't mean to be proud or show my ego...my point was that Rin's death bein planned by madara just proved that my tobidra theory might be 90 %

a) Rin's death planned by Madara = True

Tobidara's theory = Statement in question, needs a relationship towards a)

b) Tobidara's theory states: Madara put a seal in Obito's heart, one that needs the target's heart to be embraced by darkness. A good probability to connect Tobidara's theory with a).

I would be ok, if you had proof that this event took place in manga. Do you have it? If not, theory debunked.

---

.in the same way when i was wrong about tobidara being inside yamato...i dont care bro...

I've also been wrong many times with my theories. So I know your feel.

---

all i care is to see the true reveal of tobi's identity...

As far as I saw, Tobi's true identity is Obito, who just like Nagato was a victim of the crude shinobi world, that acted by his renewed belief: The world had to be recreated. Nobody was controlling him. It was just himself.

Negating this point of view would be like negating the potential of people to change (no matter if it would be to be a good or an evil person).

---

listen bro..we are manga fans right?...why we not just aply this quote from itachi to solve our conflicts :" every one is bound within his sphere of knowledge"..you have your own tobi truth..and i got my own tobi truth...that just to explain you im not in denial of anything...i read the manga well..im not stupid to say tobi is madara...so we better respect each others cuz IM NOT GONNA GO BACK ON MY TOBIDARA THEORY

Finally, I have to agree with something: Everyone is bound within his/her sphere of knowledge. But those as me who can be abstract enough to comprehend the mechanics behind logic and truth as a function of reality and existence, can freely say that when trying to see something, it is on our bests interests to attach oneself to what evidence tells us explicitely in the most simple way rather than trying to see through the obvious.

This principle is known as Occam's Razor.

I'm being honest. I really appreciate your efforts with your theories, and I also applaud your enthusiasm and resolve to defend your theory, but if only 5% or less of people in your threads is actually giving you support, it is because you're not using solid evidence to support this theory, but 'interpretations' (which lead to take as truth for what really is falseness).

 

[minamoto]

Dude you miss the point of
Those refuting this theory

You literally ignore all new information which is canon and blows the theory out of water

For example, the stone tablet was left behind for The descendants of Ashura and so forth who could read it (with the sharingan, mangekyou, and rinnegan)
This was the secret of MadAras body,(I.e Ashura + Indra = Rinnegan)

You mention "tobidara" as you put it , was more than half zetsu and use a scan where obito showed a hole in himself which was revealed to be A Genjutsu battle between the two

You ignore things like how Zetsu is only loyal to Madara and Obito betrayed madara and kept up his "loyal" persona due to Zetsu being around (even let Kakashi hit the internal point which Madara was going to control him
By if all else failed - which is another piece of information you conveniently forgot)

You showed a scan of "Tobidara" and his a
Healing itself during the battle with Naruto and co.

Dude hashiramas DNA is self healing, Madara had the same thing occur to him when he fought the alliance blind , he even simply attached a zetsu arm when he lost his (again this was forgotten)

Now when I say the following I'm being honest and not trying to disrespect:

This theory is ridiculous, very ridiculous

You have taken statements like "shell of his former self" and thought of it as literal, (even though this was refuted by later manga chapters)

You ignore new information that explains backstory , secrets of the uchiha the rinnegan and obito and madara , which makes it even more ridiculous

I mean I'm writing this on my phone of the top of my head in what has been like 2 minutes. Not to say I am any smarter or deductive than you are , but it goes to show that this theory has no legs to stand on my friend if it is this easily refuted

......................