The misconceptions about Tsunade's reaction speed

[RedRobin]

Tsunade punching her target at the same time as the Raikage could easily be because she has greater striking speed due to possessing greater physical strength even if the Raikage had started punching his target before Tsunade.

Tsunade moving before the Raikage could be because she realized Mei's suiton wouldn't make it in time before the Raikage did which has nothing to do with reactions.

The feats and comparisons you use are flawed. Don't worry, everyone makes these types of mistakes but it is important to admit when one makes them.

That makes no sense. Thats reaching far. Something you do alot when it comes to discussion of Tsunade. Almost everyone does.

Everyone was waiting for Mei's suiton, when it didnt come Tsunade was the first to react. Her brain assessed the situation faster than the rest, thats called a reaction. If Ay had moved before everyone else then you would chock it up to him being faster than everyone else and if I stated Tsunade simply wasnt thinking of moving you would call me a fanboy and say I am making excuses for her. So I am going to throw that back at you.

You arent looking at the situation clearly since you have already made up your mind on how fast Tsunade should be and arent thinking about the extent of which Byakugo would increase her stats. To think in Byakugo she still is not faster than Base Ay when she already matched his base speed in reactions before is what people do with Tsunade. Its my fault for even trying to show a different perspective but it is what it is.

 

[Greedie]

That makes no sense. Thats reaching far. Something you do alot when it comes to discussion of Tsunade. Almost everyone does.

Everyone was waiting for Mei's suiton, when it didnt come Tsunade was the first to react. Her brain assessed the situation faster than the rest, thats called a reaction. If Ay had moved before everyone else then you would chock it up to him being faster than everyone else and if I stated Tsunade simply wasnt thinking of moving you would call me a fanboy and say I am making excuses for her. So I am going to throw that back at you.

You arent looking at the situation clearly since you have already made up your mind on how fast Tsunade should be and arent thinking about the extent of which Byakugo would increase her stats. To think in Byakugo she still is not faster than Base Ay when she already matched his base speed in reactions before is what people do with Tsunade. Its my fault for even trying to show a different perspective but it is what it is.

The thing you do not understand is, That Tsunade reacted and deflected that combo before Ay even moved. He didn't move at all not one inch. What your suggesting isn't just that tsunades speed/reactions are above based Ay's but on another level completely since he couldn't even move an inch or react at all during tsunades blitz of madara's katon.

So it's either, Tsunade is on another level to base Ay in both speed and reactions or Ay simply didn't try to react.

You bring up Byakugo increased stats but we have zero idea to the extent ourselves. All the databook says is it increases her power, which is obvious because she has access to more chakra, More chakra means better Shunshin, stronger CES, Stronger medical ninjutsu, stronger Ninjutsu. It doesn't mean it increases her physical stats like Reaction speed, Physical speed outside of shunshin, Physical strength and so on.

 

[RedRobin]

The thing you do not understand is, That Tsunade reacted and deflected that combo before Ay even moved. He didn't move at all not one inch. What your suggesting isn't just that tsunades speed/reactions are above based Ay's but on another level completely since he couldn't even move an inch or react at all during tsunades blitz of madara's katon.

So it's either, Tsunade is on another level to base Ay in both speed and reactions or Ay simply didn't try to react.

You bring up Byakugo increased stats but we have zero idea to the extent ourselves. All the databook says is it increases her power, which is obvious because she has access to more chakra, More chakra means better Shunshin, stronger CES, Stronger medical ninjutsu, stronger Ninjutsu. It doesn't mean it increases her physical stats like Reaction speed, Physical speed outside of shunshin, Physical strength and so on.

No thats not what I am suggesting, its what you are suggesting to make the feat outlandish since you rather not accept what Tsunade did. Why would he move after Tsunade was in the process of intercepting the attack already?

Which is stupid to think. Right because he wouldnt try to react to the oncoming fireballs, thats the level of logic people use when discussing Tsunade's feats.

The manga scan used to represent that increase of power is Tsunade getting a hit on Madara. Thats no show of simply more chakra like extra strength, thats a show of combat power increasing i.e. base stats.

 

[Greedie]

No thats not what I am suggesting, its what you are suggesting to make the feat outlandish since you rather not accept what Tsunade did. Why would he move after Tsunade was in the process of intercepting the attack already?

Which is stupid to think. Right because he wouldnt try to react to the oncoming fireballs, thats the level of logic people use when discussing Tsunade's feats.

That is exactly that your suggesting.

If Ay attempts to react, He would of been caught mid movement after tsunade has blitzed Madara's katon but he didn't move at all, Which leaves one of two things.
1) Tsunade's speed/Reactions are on another level compared to base Ay, Since tsunade was able to react + Move + Deflect before Ay could even move an inch.
2) Ay didn't bother reacting.

Pick one

Also FYI, I like tsunade she is easily my favorite of all the female ninja

The manga scan used to represent that increase of power is Tsunade getting a hit on Madara. Thats no show of simply more chakra like extra strength, thats a show of combat power increasing i.e. base stats.

Even if landing a hit was a representation of it increased power, it doesn't mean it improved base stats, As i said, More chakra = better Shunshin = more speed.
Also i hope you don't think tsunade landed that blow without support from the other kages.

 

[NarutoX28]

I'm certain Byakugou does increase base stats for the same reason the Cursed Seal did.

 

[shelke]

I'm certain Byakugou does increase base stats for the same reason the Cursed Seal did.

As much as I like Robin's efforts, there is little evidence for that, though.

 

[NarutoX28]

As much as I like Robin's efforts, there is little evidence for that, though.

In what way? The Gates, Cursed Seal, and Food Pills augment a user's base stats due to forcibly releasing more chakra. Byakugou does the same thing by allowing by supplementing the user with a constant flow of chakra. I'm not sure why it wouldn't increase her base stats.

 

[shelke]

In what way? The Gates, Cursed Seal, and Food Pills augment a user's base stats due to forcibly releasing more chakra. Byakugou does the same thing by allowing by supplementing the user with a constant flow of chakra. I'm not sure why it wouldn't increase her base stats.

Its main function is faster regeneration and more chakra to create bigger impact. Gates and CS work very differently. You are comparing apples and oranges.

 

[RedRobin]

As much as I like Robin's efforts, there is little evidence for that, though.

Databook 4: Ninpō Sōzō Saisei — Byakugō no Jutsu

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

“For several years using the highest most precise chakra control, a fixed amount is stored in the Byakugou seal. The chakra is usually put to use to regenerate the body through the Ninjutsu technique “Sousou Saisei”, the combination results in the ultimate regeneration Jutsu.

The seal was able to regenerate the body, despite Tsunade chakra quantity being less, than the enormous chakra quantity of Shodai Hokage (i’m pretty sure, but this the gist of the line, but this was especially tricky).

When Ninpo “Sousou Saisei” is used at the same time as “Byakugou no Jutsu”, it becomes possible to use it (Sousou Saisei) over a long period of time. When ones life is effected by grave wounds pushed to the point where they’d normally die, ones body is instantly returned to an unwounded condition. Than it just talks about the rules of medical ninjutsu where broken with the completion of such a marvelous Ninjutsu as this.

Release the chakra stored in ones forehead. Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises*, however cell division quickens, which shortens ones life span.

———

*Note, the last line seems to indicate that the technique also increases ones power, besides regeneration, but i’m not a 100% on that line . Considering this is fairly key to how effective the Jutsu is, as if it increases power that explains a-lot about Tsunade and Sakura’s performances/hype, it would be great if another translator went over it. It’s the last line in the text bellow the picture of Tsunade recovering and Madara being punched (which would suggest i’m correct because the pics are highlighting regen and power, but I just don’t want to call it and start a shit storm w/o being 100% sure).

So apparently Byakugo no Jutsu is a separate technique than Sousou Saisei, that is used as a booster; hmm I wonder who could have said that and got *****ed at in the NBD for suggesting so”

Translation by Turrin from Narutoforums

Raiton Chakra Mode

Spoiler

Raiton Chakra collects on the body, it's a body invigoration ninjutsu. From inside the body lightning gushes out, the speed of ones nerve transmissions rises. The body is wrapped in lightning, the jutsu durability is like that of armor. The Raikages' application of it causes their combat power to rise considerably.

It managed to chase Naruto's Bijuu Chakra Mode, however it was inferior to the great speed of the Yellow-Flash

Its a booster technique the same as the chakra cloaks used in the manga. The raiton chakra cloak also states the same thing as rising one's power. This is further proven by the picture used in the databook as it shows a feat of combat power not simply strength. And the picture of her with the two susano swords as her spine hadnt even healed yet but she could still move.

 

[NarutoX28]

Its main function is faster regeneration and more chakra to create bigger impact. Gates and CS work very differently. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Both involve releasing more chakra throughout the body in general. The instigation of this process might be different, but the end result is entirely the same.

 

[shelke]

Databook 4: Ninpō Sōzō Saisei — Byakugō no Jutsu

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

“For several years using the highest most precise chakra control, a fixed amount is stored in the Byakugou seal. The chakra is usually put to use to regenerate the body through the Ninjutsu technique “Sousou Saisei”, the combination results in the ultimate regeneration Jutsu.

The seal was able to regenerate the body, despite Tsunade chakra quantity being less, than the enormous chakra quantity of Shodai Hokage (i’m pretty sure, but this the gist of the line, but this was especially tricky).

When Ninpo “Sousou Saisei” is used at the same time as “Byakugou no Jutsu”, it becomes possible to use it (Sousou Saisei) over a long period of time. When ones life is effected by grave wounds pushed to the point where they’d normally die, ones body is instantly returned to an unwounded condition. Than it just talks about the rules of medical ninjutsu where broken with the completion of such a marvelous Ninjutsu as this.

Release the chakra stored in ones forehead. Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises*, however cell division quickens, which shortens ones life span.

———

*Note, the last line seems to indicate that the technique also increases ones power, besides regeneration, but i’m not a 100% on that line . Considering this is fairly key to how effective the Jutsu is, as if it increases power that explains a-lot about Tsunade and Sakura’s performances/hype, it would be great if another translator went over it. It’s the last line in the text bellow the picture of Tsunade recovering and Madara being punched (which would suggest i’m correct because the pics are highlighting regen and power, but I just don’t want to call it and start a shit storm w/o being 100% sure).

So apparently Byakugo no Jutsu is a separate technique than Sousou Saisei, that is used as a booster; hmm I wonder who could have said that and got *****ed at in the NBD for suggesting so”

Translation by Turrin from Narutoforums

Raiton Chakra Mode

Spoiler

Raiton Chakra collects on the body, it's a body invigoration ninjutsu. From inside the body lightning gushes out, the speed of ones nerve transmissions rises. The body is wrapped in lightning, the jutsu durability is like that of armor. The Raikages' application of it causes their combat power to rise considerably.

It managed to chase Naruto's Bijuu Chakra Mode, however it was inferior to the great speed of the Yellow-Flash

Its a booster technique the same as the chakra cloaks used in the manga. The raiton chakra cloak also states the same thing as rising one's power. This is further proven by the picture used in the databook as it shows a feat of combat power not simply strength. And the picture of her with the two susano swords as her spine hadnt even healed yet but she could still move.

I never denied this at all. Mind you, speed is a completely different ball game than power.

Both involve releasing more chakra throughout the body in general. The instigation of this process might be different, but the end result is entirely the same.

Not at all. Gates simply open the gates of chakra within the system. CS is literally a modified DSM.

 

[RedRobin]

I never denied this at all. Mind you, speed is a completely different ball game than power.

Her combat power was raised and that includes everything.

 

[NarutoX28]

Not at all. Gates simply open the gates of chakra within the system. CS is literally a modified DSM.

Yes, the instigation is different, but the result (increased chakra flow) is exactly the same.

Cursed Seal wasn't established to be Senjutsu until Part 2.

 

[shelke]

Her combat power was raised and that includes everything.

Correct. But what does her combat focus on? Tsunade's combat style has never been about speed. It's about strength.

Yes, the instigation is different, but the result (increased chakra flow) is exactly the same.

Cursed Seal wasn't established to be Senjutsu until Part 2.

But, it's different in that regard as well. I would say that most of the boost is in strength and regeneration, rather than speed. It depends upon the allocation here. Although, I would concede on the part to an extent, that she should get a speed boost. However, it doesn't seem that big from the looks of it.

Doesn't matter. It is still modified DSM.

 

[Icelerate]

That makes no sense. Thats reaching far. Something you do alot when it comes to discussion of Tsunade. Almost everyone does.

That makes perfect sense.

Everyone was waiting for Mei's suiton, when it didnt come Tsunade was the first to react. Her brain assessed the situation faster than the rest, thats called a reaction. If Ay had moved before everyone else then you would chock it up to him being faster than everyone else and if I stated Tsunade simply wasnt thinking of moving you would call me a fanboy and say I am making excuses for her. So I am going to throw that back at you.

Tsunade being proactive enough to come to a conclusion that Mei won't make it in time doesn't mean her physical reaction is better than Ay's. Assessing the situation faster is also due to intelligence and Tsunade is clearly more intelligent than Ay which makes far more sense than her having reactions on someone on Minato's level. Ay being faster makes perfect sense because of all his hype in regards to his speed and reactions. We interpret the manga on a holistic level instead of nitpicking one feat without understanding the broader context.

You arent looking at the situation clearly since you have already made up your mind on how fast Tsunade should be and arent thinking about the extent of which Byakugo would increase her stats. To think in Byakugo she still is not faster than Base Ay when she already matched his base speed in reactions before is what people do with Tsunade. Its my fault for even trying to show a different perspective but it is what it is.

No proof she matched his speed/reactions in base as addressed by me in the first paragraph as well as KidGamer. Do you honestly believe Byakogou is better at improving one's reactions than the sharingan? Minato has better reactions than elite sharingan users who have better reaction feats and hype than Tsunade. Not to mention there is much more proof of sharingan improving one's reactions than Byakogou so it is clearly better at improving one's reactions.

 

[NarutoX28]

But, it's different in that regard as well. I would say that most of the boost is in strength and regeneration, rather than speed. It depends upon the allocation here.

Doesn't matter. It is still modified DSM.

So the best you can argue is that her base speed wouldn't improve as much, but it's still a noticeable improvement at the very least.

It actually does matter given that Cursed Seal augmented a user's base stats before Senjutsu even existed meaning that increased chakra was the reason for that growth which supports my argument perfectly.

 

[shelke]

Claiming that Minato has better reflexes than elite Sharingan users remains to be a flimsy hyperbole.

So the best you can argue is that her base speed wouldn't improve as much, but it's still a noticeable improvement at the very least.

It actually does matter given that Cursed Seal augmented a user's base stats before Senjutsu even existed meaning that increased chakra was the reason for that growth which supports my argument perfectly.

Read my post again. I added more.

Senjutsu is more about balancing the energies portions rather than anything else.

 

[Icelerate]

Claiming that Minato has better reflexes than elite Sharingan users remains to be a flimsy hyperbole.



Read my post again. I added more.

Senjutsu is more about balancing the energies portions rather than anything else.

Minato reacted to Ay's top speed. Sasuke couldn't. Put the two together and you get that Minato>Sasuke in reactions. Get over it.

 

[shelke]

Minato reacted to Ay's top speed. Sasuke couldn't. Put the two together and you get that Minato>Sasuke in reactions. Get over it.

Did he? There is sufficient evidence to support that it was V1 Ae. Minato is a sensor after all and he detected no powerful surge of chakra for a full Raiton armor that touches Bijuu level reserves. Furthermore, suggesting that he reacted to V2 Ae, but failed to out-speed a teenaged Bee would mean that teenage Bee >> V2 Ae in reflexes as he was successful both times, and that would be just idiotic. Sasuke spread Enton just before Ae struck him in V2. A physical reaction >> a mental one.

Yea, please, do add two into two. If you can manage that. And stop being stupidly aggressive. It doesn't suit you, given your history in the Versus section. :kd:

 

[King Of Pop]

Did he? There is sufficient evidence to support that it was V1 Ae. Minato is a sensor after all and he detected no powerful surge of chakra for a full Raiton armor that touches Bijuu level reserves. Furthermore, suggesting that he reacted to V2 Ae, but failed to out-speed a teenaged Bee would mean that teenage Bee >> V2 Ae in reflexes as he was successful both times, and that would be just idiotic. Sasuke spread Enton just before Ae struck him in V2. A physical reaction >> a mental one.

Yea, please, do add two into two. If you can manage that. And stop being stupidly aggressive. It doesn't suit you, given your history in the Versus section. :kd:

Ay used v2 against kcm naruto and after the latter dodged, stated that he and minato are the only ones to evade him at his full speed. so yeah its definitely v2.