Can someone please explain to me if the "Zhou" is related to Orochimaru?? It was said that Mitsuki have "The eyes of Zhou" so I don't know if it has any correlation to Orochimaru eyes
When I read about Mitsuki having the Eyes of Zhou it instantly made me think of Qin Shi Huang - the First Emperor of China who belonged to the Zhou Dynasty. I wrote a thread on how I thought Orochimaru might be based on him a while ago. Check out The First Emperor from this list.
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Mitsuki's technique's name doesn't really confirm the theory but it definitely fits with it. It's a subtle reference if it is a reference at all. It might be worth seeing what the technique consists of before getting excited.
I got one big doubt going on though, Teth. If The Demon possessed Orochimaru while he was a kid and killed his parents, how come he handles the spirit well for five decades? Orochimaru went to thousands of missions and a war so we can assume he constantly used his body to its limits.
When I read about Mitsuki having the Eyes of Zhou it instantly made me think of Qin Shi Huang - the First Emperor of China who belonged to the Zhou Dynasty. I wrote a thread on how I thought Orochimaru might be based on him a while ago. Check out The First Emperor from this list.
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Mitsuki's technique's name doesn't really confirm the theory but it definitely fits with it. It's a subtle reference if it is a reference at all. It might be worth seeing what the technique consists of before getting excited.
I got one big doubt going on though, Teth. If The Demon possessed Orochimaru while he was a kid and killed his parents, how come he handles the spirit well for five decades? Orochimaru went to thousands of missions and a war so we can assume he constantly used his body to its limits.
Orochimaru is only barred from transmigrating more than once every three years. There is no upward limit on how long he can survive in any one body though they do die of poisoning if he over uses them. I think the reason Oro wanted first Kimimaro and then Sasuke is that they were descendants of Kaguya, vessels that could provide longer term homes. He survived in Anko for decades in a dormant state. His main fear as Kabuto stated was that he might display the full extent of his powers and so gain unwanted attention… therefore he tends to hold back in fights (we haven't seen his Dragon Sage Mode though we know he has Sage Chakra). If he is the Demon then he has been watching and gathering experiments on the quiet and getting other people to do his dirty work.
Qin Shi Huang was thought not to have any Royal Blood in him. Most of the stories suggest he was the son of his (cough) father's chief advisor. He didn't belong to the Qin Dynasty he started it. He declared himself to be the first Emperor - uniting the Royal Claims of what had been distinct countries with their own dynasties (including the Zhou and Shang dynasties) into one line of succession - his own… the Qin Dynasty (after which China is named). Qin Shi Huang was never a popular man, he was a feared one. I think he fits the template for the man who might be the common ancestor to both Uchiha and Hyuuga for reasons I set out in that link. The Royal Blood in Naruto would all come from the princess Kaguya.
Think of it this way. The Eyes of Zhou would be a trophy for a usurper king. Oro has been gathering all the descendants of Kaguya and wiping them out - at least according to this theory. Oro is combining the legitimate bloodlines of Kaguya to create a perfect body (that's the point of all his experiments). It's not much on its own but it is a possible line that would connect Orochimaru to the Eyes of Zhou (which is what the original question asked for) and it does fit with all of the other connections between Orochimaru and Qin Shi Huang.
You're right. I always visualized Orochimaru as never taking any fight seriously though this has led to mistakes like with Sasuke and Itachi. This gives me a feeling The Demon has been targeting every major clan of Kaguya's descendants for extinction and taking their power for himself through their last member. I hope Oro took Karin's body at chater 699...He seemed very excited over Karin unlocking the chains.
You're right. I always visualized Orochimaru as never taking any fight seriously though this has led to mistakes like with Sasuke and Itachi. This gives me a feeling The Demon has been targeting every major clan of Kaguya's descendants for extinction and taking their power for himself through their last member. I hope Oro took Karin's body at chater 699...He seemed very excited over Karin unlocking the chains.
I wouldn't be too sure that Orochimaru made a mistake against Itachi. Orochimaru wasn't able to take Itachi's body but he may not have wanted to. The point about scaring Itachi might have been to get Itachi to push Sasuke to greater and greater hatred… preparing the vessel he wanted for the day that vessel would submit. Orochimaru might also have been the one to organise for Itachi to kill the rest of his clan. Orochimaru had Danzo in his palm at the time Itachi was ordered to commit the massacre. Itachi sacrificed himself in order to rid Sasuke of the Snake but the Snake still lives. Nothing's confirmed yet but I get the impression that we have more to learn about the Uchiha Massacre (especially with all the Sharingan now floating about).
Anyway, I promised a new theory, sorry for the delay.
For this update I wanted to dig into one of the sources of inspiration for the prophecy in Naruto. Kishi mixes in stories and legends from all around the world in his story but the Child of Destiny looks like it comes straight out of the Bible. People joke about Naruto being Narujesus but in many respects I think they have a point. Kishi is more than familiar with the prophecies of the Bible. His twin brother wrote a manga all about the same.
The Nazarene
Central to the story of Naruto is a prophecy. You might be forgiven for thinking that the prophecy has already run its course but I think that there is much further to go with this storyline. There are darker forces at work than Kaguya and in order to tackle the great evil on the horizon, Naruto and Sasuke will need to focus on training their kids. The connections between the prophecy of the Child of Destiny in Naruto and the prophecies of a Messiah start very early in the story of Naruto and they have been getting stronger and stronger.
Prophecies are not unique to the Abrahamic religions. Indeed many of the features of these prophecies could well have been borrowed from even earlier beliefs. Religions all tend to overlap to a certain extent as cultures mix and exchange ideas. Still there are distinctive markers unique to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I will start at the beginning and then show ways in which the new generation might fit into this prophecy. I will focus more on the Christian Prophecy (because I am more familiar with it) but there are elements of each in the story.
Genesis
Where better to start than at the very beginning, the Bible starts with creation but swiftly moves on to the first man and woman from whom all subsequent men and women are said to be descended. Adam and Eve begin their time in the Garden of Eden but are thrown out when they defy God’s instructions and take fruit from a Tree with the knowledge of good and evil.
In Naruto this translates into Kaguya taking the forbidden fruit from the God Tree:
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It’s unclear whether there was any Snake involved in Kaguya’s decision to take fruit but in the Bible Eve is tempted into eating the forbidden fruit by a Snake. The Snake is not identified as Satan in the Old Testament but in the New Testament a Snake also tempts Christ as he spends forty days and forty nights fasting in the desert. This second Snake is identified as Satan and so the Snake that earlier tricked Adam and Eve to take the forbidden fruit also tends to be identified as Satan too.
If there is any character in Naruto that fits this template as Satan then it is Orochimaru. Not only is he a Snake but he is immortal. It is unclear exactly when Orochimaru started transmigrating but it could stretch back to Kaguya and earlier. Plus, Orochimaru tends to employ trickery to get what he wants.
Eve taking the forbidden fruit:
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Another name for the Cursed Seal is the Devil’s Fruit
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Kishi’s brother uses a character with the same eyes to portray Satan in his manga called 666 Satan…
Orochimaru:
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666 Satan – Triple Spiral on forehead and Snake Eyes:
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Elements of Genesis continue to appear in the story of Hagoromo and his sons. The Staffs of Hagoromo and Hamura correspond to the staffs associated with the sons of Adam and Eve. The story of Cain and Abel tells of two brothers who represent the first farmers. Cain, the Elder Son, grows crops. Abel, the Younger Son tends to sheep.
In the Bible their story is often considered an allegory for how mankind moved away from simply growing crops to how mankind first started to raise cattle. In fine art, Cain is distinguished by his Plough and Abel can be spotted by his Shepherds Crook. These objects correlate to the two staffs carried by Hagoromo and Hamura…
Cain and Abel
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Hagoromo and Hamura
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At first glance these two staves look nothing much like a Plough and a Shepherds Crook. The top of Hagoromo’s Staff is actually modeled on a Shakujō – a staff carried by monks to scare away snakes (ahem) and by deities to move between the Six Realms (a sort of Buddhist afterlife / purgatory):
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The other half of his staff however is a Crook (exactly like the object carried by Shepherds to well… herd sheep)
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As for what Hamura was carrying… well it might have three prongs but it is very far from being a trident. I think that this is a rake / plough similar to those used in Japanese rock gardening (Karesansui). Here’s a young monk using something similar to rake the Japanese Rock Garden of Ryoanji:
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The story of Cain and Abel continues with a feud that develops as a result of the favour shown towards the Younger Son. Cain and Abel both take offerings to God but God only acknowledges Abel’s offering. Struck with jealousy, Cain takes his brother out into the wilderness and kills him when he thinks God isn’t watching. If this theme of feuding brothers isn’t ringing any bells then you haven’t been reading Naruto very closely. This is the story of Hagoromo and the rivalry that emerges from his choice between his younger and elder sons as the heir to Ninshuu:
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This narrative of an Elder and Younger Son being divided by their inheritance appears a couple of times in the Bible. According to Jewish and Christian beliefs God’s Covenant (think the Bible’s equivalent of Ninshuu) was to be passed down via Abraham’s Younger Son (Isaac). Jews and Christians see themselves as heirs to the traditions passed down via Isaac. Muslims and Arabs tend to see themselves as heirs to Abrahams Elder Son (Ishmael). Islam still recognizes many Jewish and Christian prophets but the succession of Abraham is one question over which the faiths diverge. The prophet Mohammed is said to trace his lineage from Kedar / Qaidar, the second of Ishmael’s twelve sons.
Another element of the story of Cain and Abel that has resonance in Naruto is the punishment that God inflicts on Cain for the act of murder, Cain is said to have been cursed by God. His curse was not to have his life shortened but rather the reverse. He is cursed to wander the Earth without end, living with his shame and his shame being visible to all who met him. Any who would free him from his curse (by killing him) are promised a worse punishment than that given to Cain. The mark is not actually identified in the Bible but people assume it to have been a visible mark so that Cain’s shame would be apparent to all. Modern literary retellings of this story usually identify the curse as a mark on the forehead. In John Steinbeck’s novel East of Eden, for instance, the character Charles (Cain) has just such a scar on his forehead.
I think that the scratched forehead protectors in Naruto could be a nod to this idea of the Mark of Cain. The missing nin are cursed to wander the wilds, acting as mercenaries for hire but unable to settle and find a home having abandoned their respective villages. This is a trope in a lot of Western stories that have been built on Bible tales. In the world of the X Men – Cain Marko (aka the Juggernaut *****) is the stepbrother of Charles Xavier (aka Professor X). Cain becomes the Jugernaut after he attempts to kill his brother and is then cursed by a jewel, which is hidden under his helmet (on his forehead)… X marks the spot:
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Before anyone suggests that there might be a connection to the jewel on Susanoo’s forehead… I doubt it though who knows. This “jewel” is actually a hat worn by Tengu who in addition to being bird men monsters from Japanese folklore were also parodies of monks who wore small hats that double as drinking cups called Tokin:
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Tokin IRL
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Most of Akatsuki display their status as Missing Nin on their forehead protectors (at least those that wore them) marked by a scratch denoting that they had abandoned their homelands:
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Sasuke still bears the Mark of Cain and is unable to settle in Konoha, in part because he is on a special mission but also in part out of penance for his previous sins… including attempting to kill Naruto (his spiritual brother)… a couple of times now:
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Sasuke’s road to redemption / Secret Mission
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These parallels are small details but they start to stack up. They are important in the Bible because they show a sort of line of succession and lineage which becomes much more important in the prophecies of a Messiah.
Revelation
Revelation is a book in the Bible but it is also a term used to describe direct communication with God. Revelation is a strong feature in all the Abrahamic religions as Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe that their religion is the product of divine knowledge and will revealed by God. God doesn’t just communicate how best to live your life in these religions, God also reveals knowledge or prophecies of the future.
In Naruto, Kishi spreads a lot of religious messages which he describes variously as the Will of Fire, Naruto’s Ninja Way and Ninshuu. These are not fighting techniques, these are the values that Konoha holds dear and which they fight or refrain from fighting to uphold. Black Zetsu calls Ninshuu stupid while Hagoromo is careful to distinguish Ninjutsu from Ninshuu to draw the contrast:
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This religion is passed down to Hagoromo’s sons in a stone tablet much as Moses left God’s instructions from Mount Sinai on the same
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Hagoromo’s Tablet
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This is the Stone Tablet that Black Zetsu corrupted in order to get the Uchiha to serve his master:
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Jiraiya was effectively a prophet of Ninshuu. In addition to writing cheesy romantic novels he also writes the Gutsy Ninja, which sets out the main values of Ninshuu:
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Jiraiya educated both Nagato and Naruto in Ninshuu without either of them realizing exactly what it was:
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Jiraiya is also a key figure in the prophecy of Naruto. He is told he will train the Child of Destiny, though he does not know which of his pupils that will be:
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Hagoromo was given the same prophecy by Gamamaru before he split the Juubi’s Chakra into the Nine Bijuu:
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It is probably safe to assume that Naruto is the Child of Destiny except that recent developments seem to suggest there is a new or very old evil that will need to be tackled (BTW I think the proof was Sarada – a baby he found on his travels):
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If Naruto is the Child of Destiny then it would seem that he still has a destiny to fulfill:
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Naruto may not be the Child of Destiny though. The only feature confirmed of the Child of Destiny is that he will have Blue Eyes:
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While Naruto has Blue Eyes, so does his son… You might say, “but Jiraiya never taught Boruto, he died before he was born”. The thing about prophecies in stories is that the prophecy is rarely as clear as it would seem. Boruto would only need to pick up a copy of the Tale of a Gutsy Ninja in order to qualify as the Child of Destiny.
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Naruto is still not the sharpest tool in the box but he hasn’t exactly been seen playing with the Bijuu in the way that the Child of Destiny is supposed to. Playing with the Bijuu is something I would expect a child to do. Boruto has been lined up as somebody who might fulfill the prophecy or at least pick up where Naruto left off just as Naruto continued where Jiraiya, Minato and Nagato finished their tales (they have all been identified as the Child of Destiny at one point or another).
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I think that the Child of Destiny might be borrowing from a series of Jewish, Christian and Muslim prophecies and superstitions that point to Boruto being the promised child instead of Naruto.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a variety of prophecies that foretell of a Messiah who will bring about a revolution throughout the world. The Jews believe in a Messiah who will usher in a new age. Christian’s believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that he will one day descend from heaven again. Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that he will return again but they believe that the teachings of the Christian faith were superseded by the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed.
Only Christians actually believe that Jesus was the Son of God, for Muslims and Jews the term Messiah simply denotes one who has been anointed by God. Messiah is Hebrew for Annointed One. Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah adopted to describe Jesus and his followers (Christ is not a name but a title – Christians are those who follow the Messiah).
Each faith has different omens that they believe will mark the advent or arrival / return of the Messiah – Advent means coming as in the coming of Christ which is celebrated each year through things like Advent calendars and chocolates in the run up to Christmas (which marks the birth of Christ). The Jews for instance believe that the Messiah will be a son of David who will among other things unite the tribes of Israel, gather in all Jews to the Land of Israel, rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and usher in a Messianic Age of global universal peace. Christians likewise believe that the Messiah belongs to the line of David but they think that the Messiah was and is Jesus of Nazareth who will one day return.
Muslims believe in a violent end times in which Jesus must confront the Antichrist… the Masih ad-Dajjal (false Messiah). Muslims believe that Jesus (Isa) will be the one to bring Jews and Christians together into the Ummah (the followers of Islam) and save the faith from the great deceiver.
Which brings me to the Nazarene of the title. The Nazarene is one of the prophecies contained specifically in the Christian Bible. Mathew 2:23 states that
“There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazarene.”
What has the Nazarene got to do with Naruto? Maybe nothing but there are recent developments that got me to thinking that Kishi might be adapting various superstitions from Judaism, Christianity and Islam into one story. Sasuke and Naruto are both descendants of Hagoromo and serve as hosts to Indra and Asura. Boruto represents a union of the strongest bloodlines that came from Kaguya since his mother is the heir to the legacy of Hamura (something that crops up in Naruto: The Last) and his father the heir to Hagoromo.
Kaguya became part of the Shinju when she turned into the Juubi. For a time at least she was united with the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. A certain member of her heirs was much stronger than his contemporaries by virtue of his mastery of Mokuton (something he probably inherited from the Shinju itself rather than Kaguya):
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Boruto has certain features that make him look like a fruit. His hair and that of his sister both show a stem:
Boruto and Himawari (both have stems in their hair)
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Cartoon Fruit (with stem)
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I think that Boruto and Himawari are both effectively the Fruit of the Shinju. The Shinju is supposed to grow new fruit every thousand years. If the Shinju was fused with Kaguya then it would makes sense for the fruit of the Shinju to be one of her descendants rather than an actual fruit:
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The word Nazar from which Nazareth and Nazarene originally derived actually has two possible origins. It could come from either a word that translates from the Hebrew word for Branch (ne·ṣer) or it could come from the Arabic for Eye (نظر, "sight" or "seeing). Across the Middle East these two meaning are combined in one very common superstition regarding the Evil Eye. Many Jews and Muslims carry and display a strange amulet that is believed to be able to counter the power of the Evil Eye. To ward off this evil they carry and display a blue eye amulet that is thought to be able to counter the power of the Evil Eye – this amulet is effectively a Blue Eye:
A Nazar
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It’s probably too early to say anything for certain but I think the Nazar might be influencing the development of both the Bad Guys and the Good Guys in Naruto moving forward.
First, lets take a look at the Hooded Akatsuki. Not only is he covered in Eyes but he has incredible mastery over Mokuton:
Multiple Eyes
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Mokuton
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This character reminds me a lot of the tradition of hanging lots and lots of Nazars from trees – for when one Nazar just isn’t enough…
Branches with Eyes
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Second we have Naruto’s kids. They already look like fruit of the Shinju. If you were to apply the Prophecy from Gamamaru the we can expect the Child of Destiny to have Blue Eyes. If you were to combine the Blue Eyes of the Child of Destiny with the concentric circles of the Rinnegan and the Royal Emblem of the Ootsutsuki Clan then what emerges would instantly look a lot like a Nazar. Boruto is the heir to the Hyuuga, if anyone were to get this Dojutsu then it would be him…
Blue Eyed Boy
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Concentric Circles of the Rinnegan
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Concentric Circles of the Hagoromo’s Emblem / Standard – the purple Rinnegan with a Yin Yang Symbol at the centre
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Nazar
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Finally if we were to look for a character who fit the bill of an Anti-Christ-like figure / the Demon amongst the new crop of characters, we have one who has more or less dressed himself up in the colours of the Nazar (Dark Blue, Light Blue, White and Black) – but his eyes aren’t quite right:
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Orochimaru’s previous incarnation
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It is common in a lot of the stories of the Messiah for there to be an Anti-Christ who precedes him. The Anti-Christ or False Messiah is said to pretend to be the Messiah in order to achieve power. This is where the 666 mark is said to help identify him. The 666 is thought to be an old code using numbers to represent letters. The number was said to appear on the head because the Anti-Christ was expected to appear on coins. The 666 was thought to be an underground response to the persecution against Christians undertaken by Emperor Nero (I think Kishi has replaced Nero with Qin Shi Huang but that’s another theory).
The Demon branding his future host with the Number of the Beast
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You might think that the Nazar is too obscure to be given such prominence in a Japanese Manga. Recently however we have seen the Nazar used as the model for the New Soul King in Bleach:
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I recently saw a Nazar in the movie Trance (Danny Boyle Film) but my favourite appearance of the Nazar is when David Blaine confused a TV presenter with his odd behaviour:
Hmm… different
The bearer of the Rinnegan is supposed to be able to bring about a revolution or utter destruction. Naruto does not have the Rinnegan. Madara had to cheat to achieve the Rinnegan but his Rinnegan weren't blue. Nagato had Madara's eyes transplanted into him. I think that Boruto is the most likely candidate to achieve a new Blue Rinnegan. One way for Orochimaru to take these eyes would be to get close to Boruto. Orochimaru has a history of offering uneven deals. He will grant a wish in exchange for their body and soul:
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This comes straight from Muslim stories about demons. If you've ever seen or heard the story of Aladdin you will know about how Genies are able to grant wishes. Genie is the english translation of Jinn which means demon in Arabic. In both Muslim stories and Christian tales of witchcraft, the Demon often offers to grant a wish in exchange for a soul. The Demon rarely lives up to his side of the bargain (often twisting the wish before granting it)...
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Ancient Evil
So have we seen the Evil Eye at all in Naruto? Well it’s cropped up quite a lot.
I’ll start with Orochimaru. When Orochimaru uses his genjutsu it is able to knock out the most powerful opponents with a glance…
Sasuke and Sakura
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Kakashi
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When his chakra invades somebody they tend to start to lose their mind and their soul:
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This usually exhibits in or around the eye:
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Sasuke was offered power by this eye in order to defeat Itachi:
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Naruto (who is host to the Demon Fox who was formed from the Juubi’s Chakra) was also tempted by the Evil Eye (talking through the Demon Fox):
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It’s not clear yet but Kaguya had a similar markings to Kabutorochimaru just before her transformation into the Demon Rabbit:
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It may be that the entire Uchiha clan fell victim to the Evil Eye. We still don’t know the full picture about what happened on the night of the massacre and the eyes collected from that night are the most likely source for where the new zetsu army got their sharingan from:
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You may or may not have noticed the parallels in the New Zetsu Army to the Army of Madara and Izuna (Izuna being one of the candidates for the new Akatsuki man):
Uchiha Army
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Akatsuki Man and the New Zetsu Army
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The history of the Ootsutsuki being corrupted and the Uchiha being corrupted also has a lot of parallels that could be linked to the Evil Eye. Notice the Eye that allows an Uchiha to massacre his enemies during Itachi’s flashback to the origins of Izanagi:
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Notice the piles of bodies that surround Itachi and Sasuke when they fall under Kabutorochimaru’s genjutsu:
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Finally notice how Kaguya takes the same pose when she starts her tyranny as the “demon”
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The Evil Eye seems to somehow be related to the Sharinnegan and not just in causing the transformation of the Rabbit Goddess into the Demon Rabbit:
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No wonder Orochimaru wants Sasuke’s body – he didn’t have the power to take it before but a lot of time has passed since then and the Snake has probably been busy:
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I think there is a good chance that the Demon might be cozying up to the Child of Destiny because he can recognise what others cannot... that there is a new Fruit of the Shinju. Orochimaru isn’t Human he is just wearing human skin
Central to the story of Naruto is a prophecy. You might be forgiven for thinking that the prophecy has already run its course but I think that there is much further to go with this storyline. There are darker forces at work than Kaguya and in order to tackle the great evil on the horizon, Naruto and Sasuke will need to focus on training their kids. The connections between the prophecy of the Child of Destiny in Naruto and the prophecies of a Messiah start very early in the story of Naruto and they have been getting stronger and stronger.
Prophecies are not unique to the Abrahamic religions. Indeed many of the features of these prophecies could well have been borrowed from even earlier beliefs. Religions all tend to overlap to a certain extent as cultures mix and exchange ideas. Still there are distinctive markers unique to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I will start at the beginning and then show ways in which the new generation might fit into this prophecy. I will focus more on the Christian Prophecy (because I am more familiar with it) but there are elements of each in the story.
Genesis
Where better to start than at the very beginning, the Bible starts with creation but swiftly moves on to the first man and woman from whom all subsequent men and women are said to be descended. Adam and Eve begin their time in the Garden of Eden but are thrown out when they defy God’s instructions and take fruit from a Tree with the knowledge of good and evil.
In Naruto this translates into Kaguya taking the forbidden fruit from the God Tree:
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It’s unclear whether there was any Snake involved in Kaguya’s decision to take fruit but in the Bible Eve is tempted into eating the forbidden fruit by a Snake. The Snake is not identified as Satan in the Old Testament but in the New Testament a Snake also tempts Christ as he spends forty days and forty nights fasting in the desert. This second Snake is identified as Satan and so the Snake that earlier tricked Adam and Eve to take the forbidden fruit also tends to identified as Satan too.
If there is any character in Naruto that fits this template as Satan then it is Orochimaru. Not only is he a Snake but he is immortal. It is unclear exactly when Orochimaru started transmigrating but it could stretch back to Kaguya and earlier. Plus, Orochimaru tends to employ trickery to get what he wants.
Eve taking the forbidden fruit:
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Another name for the Cursed Seal is the Devil’s Fruit
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Kishi’s brother uses a character with the same eyes to portray Satan in his manga called 666 Satan…
Orochimaru:
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666 Satan – Triple Spiral on forehead and Snake Eyes:
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Elements of Genesis continue to appear in the story of Hagoromo and his sons. The Staffs of Hagoromo and Hamura correspond to the staffs associated with the sons of Adam and Eve. The story of Cain and Abel tells of two brothers represent the first farmers. Cain, the Elder Son, grows crops and so is often pictured with a plough. Abel, the Younger Son tends to sheep.
In the Bible their story is often considered an allegory for how mankind moved away from simply growing crops to how mankind first started to raise cattle. In fine art, Cain is distinguished by his Plough and Abel can be spotted by his Shepherds Crook. These objects correlate to the two staffs carried by Hagormom and Hamura…
Cain and Abel
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Hagoromo and Hamura
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At first glance these two staves look nothing much like a Plough and a Shepherds Crook. The top of Hagoromo’s Staff is actually modeled on a Shakujō – a staff carried by monks to scare away snakes (ahem) and by deities to move between the Six Realms (a sort of Buddhist afterlife / purgatory):
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The other half of his staff however is a Crook (exactly like the object carried by Shepherds to well… herd sheep)
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As for what Hamura was carrying… well it might have three prongs but it is very far from being a trident. I think that this is a rake / plough similar to those used in Japanese rock gardening (Karesansui). Here’s a young monk using something similar to rake the Japanese Rock Garden of Ryoanji:
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The story of Cain and Abel continues with a feud that develops as a result of the favour shown towards the Younger Son. Cain and Abel both take offerings to God but God only acknowledges Abel’s offering. Struck with jealousy, Cain takes his brother out into the wilderness and kills him when he thinks God isn’t watching. If this theme of feuding brothers isn’t ringing any bells then you haven’t been reading Naruto very closely. This is the story of Hagoromo and the rivalry that emerges from his choice between his younger and elder sons as the heir to Ninshuu:
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This narrative of an Elder and Younger Son being divided by their inheritance appears a couple of times in the Bible. According to Jewish and Christian beliefs God’s Covenant (think the Bible’s equivalent of Ninshuu) was to be passed down via Abraham’s Younger Son (Isaac). Jews and Christians see themselves as heirs to the traditions passed down via Isaac. Muslims and Arabs tend to see themselves as heirs to Abrahams Elder Son (Ishmael). Islam still recognizes many Jewish and Christian prophets but the succession of Abraham is one question over which the faiths diverge. The prophet Mohammed is said to trace his lineage from Kedar / Qaidar, the second of Ishmael’s twelve sons.
Another element of the story of Cain and Abel that has resonance in Naruto is the punishment that God inflicts on Cain for the act of murder, Cain is said to have been cursed by God. His curse was not to have his life shortened but rather the reverse. He is cursed to wander the Earth without end, living with his shame and his shame being visible to all who met him. Any who would free him from his curse (by killing him) are promised a worse punishment than that given to Cain. The mark is not actually identified in the Bible but people assume it to have been a visible mark so that Cain’s shame would be apparent to all. Modern literary retellings of this story usually identify the curse as a mark on the forehead. In John Steinbeck’s novel East of Eden, for instance, the character Charles (Cain) has just such a scar on his forehead.
I think that the scratched forehead protectors in Naruto could be a nod to this idea of the Mark of Cain. The missing nin are cursed to wander the wilds, acting as mercenaries for hire but unable to settle and find a home having abandoned their respective villages. This is a trope in a lot of Western stories that have been built on Bible tales. In the world of the X Men – Cain Marko (aka the Juggernaut *****) is the stepbrother of Charles Xavier (aka Professor X). Cain becomes the Jugernaut after he attempts to kill his brother and is then cursed by a jewel, which is hidden under his helmet (on his forehead)… X marks the spot:
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Before anyone suggests that there might be a connection to the jewel on Susanoo’s forehead… I doubt it though who knows. This “jewel” is actually a hat worn by Tengu who in addition to being bird men monsters from Japanese folklore were also parodies of monks who wore small hats that double as drinking cups called Tokin:
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Tokin IRL
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Most of Akatsuki display their status as Missing Nin on their forehead protectors (at least those that wore them) marked by a scratch denoting that they had abandoned their homelands:
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Sasuke still bears the Mark of Cain and is unable to settle in Konoha, in part because he is on a special mission but also in part out of penance for his previous sins… including attempting to kill Naruto (his spiritual brother)… a couple of times now:
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Sasuke’s road to redemption / Secret Mission
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These parallels are small details but they start to stack up. They are important in the Bible because they show a sort of line of succession and lineage which becomes much more important in the prophecies of a Messiah.
Revelation
Revelation is a book in the Bible but it is also a term used to describe direct communication with God. Revelation is a strong feature in all the Abrahamic religions as Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe that their religion is the product of divine knowledge and will revealed by God. God doesn’t just communicate how best to live your life in these religions, God also reveals knowledge or prophecies of the future.
In Naruto, Kishi spreads a lot of religious messages which he describes variously as the Will of Fire, Naruto’s Ninja Way and Ninshuu. These are not fighting techniques, these are the values that Konoha holds dear and which they fight or refrain from fighting to uphold. Black Zetsu calls Ninshuu stupid while Hagoromo is careful to distinguish Ninjutsu from Ninshuu to draw the contrast:
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This religion is passed down to Hagoromo’s sons in a stone tablet much as Moses left God’s instructions from Mount Sinai on the same
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Hagoromo’s Tablet
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This is the Stone Tablet that Black Zetsu corrupted in order to get the Uchiha to serve his master:
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Jiraiya was effectively a prophet of Ninshuu. In addition to writing cheesy romantic novels he also writes the Gutsy Ninja, which sets out the main values of Ninshuu:
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Jiraiya educated both Nagato and Naruto in Ninshuu without either of them realizing exactly what it was:
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Jiraiya is also a key figure in the prophecy of Naruto. He is told he will train the Child of Destiny, though he does not know which of his pupils that will be:
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Hagoromo was given the same prophecy by Gamamaru before he split the Juubi’s Chakra into the Nine Bijuu:
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It is probably safe to assume that Naruto is the Child of Destiny except that recent developments seem to suggest there is a new or very old evil that will need to be tackled (BTW I think the proof was Sarada – a baby he found on his travels):
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If Naruto is the Child of Destiny then it would seem that he still has a destiny to fulfill:
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Naruto may not be the Child of Destiny though. The only feature comfirmed of the Child of Destiny is that he will have Blue Eyes:
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While Naruto has Blue Eyes, so does his son… You might say, “but Jiraiya never taught Boruto, he died before he was born”. The thing about prophecies in stories is that the prophecy is rarely as clear as it would seem. Boruto would only need to pick up a copy of the Tale of a Gutsy Ninja in order to qualify as the Child of Destiny.
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Naruto is still not the sharpest tool in the box but he hasn’t exactly been seen playing with the Bijuu in the way that the Child of Destiny is supposed to. Playing with the Bijuu is something I would expect a child to do. Boruto has been lined up as somebody who might fulfill the prophecy or at least pick up where Naruto left off just as Naruto continued where Jiraiya, Minato and Nagato finished their tales (they have all been identified as the Child of Destiny at one point or another).
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I think that the Child of Destiny might be borrowing from a series of Jewish, Christian and Muslim prophecies and superstitions that point to Boruto being the promised child instead of Naruto.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a variety of prophecies that foretell of a Messiah who will bring about a revolution throughout the world. The Jews believe in a Messiah who will usher in a new age. Christian’s believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that he will one day descend from heaven again. Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that he will return again but they believe that the teachings of the Christian faith were superseded by the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed.
Only Christians actually believe that Jesus was the Son of God, for Muslims and Jews the term Messiah simply denotes one who has been anointed by God. Messiah is Hebrew for Annointed One. Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah adopted to describe Jesus and his followers (Christ is not a name but a title – Christians are those who follow the Messiah).
Each faith has different omens that they believe will mark the advent or arrival / return of the Messiah – Advent means coming as in the coming of Christ which is celebrated each year through things like Advent calendars and chocolates in the run up to Christmas (which marks the birth of Christ). The Jews for instance believe that the Messiah will be a son of David who will among other things unite the tribes of Israel, gather in all Jews to the Land of Israel, rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem and usher in a Messianic Age of global universal peace. Christians likewise believe that the Messiah belongs to the line of David but they think that the Messiah was and is Jesus of Nazareth who will one day return.
Muslims believe in a violent end times in which Jesus must confront the Antichrist… the Masih ad-Dajjal (false Messiah). Muslims believe that Jesus (Isa) will be the one to bring Jews and Christians together into the Ummah (the followers of Islam) and save the faith from the great deceiver.
Which brings me to the Nazarene of the title. The Nazarene is one of the prophecies contained specifically in the Christian Bible. Mathew 2:23 states that
“There he made his home in a town called Nazareth, so that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled, "He will be called a Nazarene.”
What has the Nazarene got to do with Naruto? Maybe nothing but there are recent developments that got me to thinking that Kishi might be adapting various superstitions from Judaism, Christianity and Islam into one story. Sasuke and Naruto are both descendants of Hagoromo and serve as hosts to Indra and Asura. Boruto represents a union of the strongest bloodlines that came from Kaguya since his mother is the heir to the legacy of Hamura (something that crops up in Naruto: The Last) and his father the heir to Hagoromo.
Kaguya became part of the Shinju when she turned into the Juubi. For a time at least she was united with the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. A certain member of her heirs was much stronger than his contemporaries by virtue of his mastery of Mokuton (something he probably inherited from the Shinju itself rather than Kaguya):
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Boruto has certain features that make him look like a fruit. His hair and that of his sister both show a stem:
Boruto and Himawari (both have stems in their hair)
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Cartoon Fruit (with stem)
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I think that Boruto and Himawari are both effectively the Fruit of the Shinju. The Shinju is supposed to grow new fruit every thousand years. If the Shinju was fused with Kaguya then it would makes sense for the fruit of the Shinju to be one of her descendants rather than an actual fruit:
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The word Nazar from which Nazareth and Nazarene originally derived actually has two possible origins. It could come from either a word that translates from the Hebrew word for Branch (ne·ṣer) or it could come from the Arabic for Eye (نظر, "sight" or "seeing). Across the Middle East these two meaning are combined in one very common superstition regarding the Evil Eye. Many Jews and Muslims carry and display a strange amulet that is believed to be able to counter the power of the Evil Eye. To ward off this evil they carry and display a blue eye amulet that is thought to be able to counter the power of the Evil Eye – this amulet is effectively a Blue Eye:
A Nazar
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It’s probably too early to say anything for certain but I think the Nazar might be influencing the development of both the Bad Guys and the Good Guys in Naruto moving forward.
First, lets take a look at the Hooded Akatsuki. Not only is he covered in Eyes but he has incredible mastery over Mokuton:
Multiple Eyes
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Mokuton
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This character reminds me a lot of the tradition of hanging lots and lots of Nazars from trees – for when one Nazar just isn’t enough…
Branches with Eyes
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Second we have Naruto’s kids. They already look like fruit of the Shinju. If you were to apply the Prophecy from Gamamaru the we can expect the Child of Destiny to have Blue Eyes. If you were to combine the Blue Eyes of the Child of Destiny with the concentric circles of the Rinnegan and the Royal Emblem of the Ootsutsuki Clan then what emerges would instantly look a lot like a Nazar. Boruto is the heir to the Hyuuga, if anyone were to get this Dojutsu then it would be him…
Blue Eyed Boy
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Concentric Circles of the Rinnegan
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Concentric Circles of the Hagoromo’s Emblem / Standard – the purple Rinnegan with a Yin Yang Symbol at the centre
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Nazar
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Finally if we were to look for a character who fit the bill of an Anti-Christ-like figure / the Demon amongst the new crop of characters, we have one who has more or less dressed himself up in the colours of the Nazar (Dark Blue, Light Blue, White and Black) – but his eyes aren’t quite right:
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Orochimaru’s previous incarnation
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It is common in a lot of the stories of the Messiah for there to be an Anti-Christ who precedes him. The Anti-Christ or False Messiah is said to pretend to be the Messiah in order to achieve power. This is where the 666 mark is said to help identify him. The 666 is thought to be an old code using numbers to represent letters. The number was said to appear on the head because the Anti-Christ was expected to appear on coins. The 666 was thought to be an underground response to the persecution against Christians undertaken by Emperor Nero (I think Kishi has replaced Nero with Qin Shi Huang but that’s another theory).
The Demon branding his future host with the Number of the Beast
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You might think that the Nazar is too obscure to be given such prominence in a Japanese Manga. Recently however we have seen the Nazar used as the model for the New Soul King in Bleach:
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I recently saw a Nazar in the movie Trance (Danny Boyle Film) but my favourite appearance of the Nazar is when David Blaine confused a TV presenter with his odd behaviour:
Hmm… different
The bearer of the Rinnegan is supposed to be able to bring about a revolution or utter destruction. Naruto does not have the Rinnegan. Madara had to cheat to achieve the Rinnegan but his Rinnegan weren't blue. Nagato had Madara's eyes transplanted into him. I think that Boruto is the most likely candidate to achieve a new Blue Rinnegan. One way for Orochimaru to take these eyes would be to get close to Boruto. Orochimaru has a history of offering uneven deals. He will grant a wish in exchange for their body and soul:
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This comes straight from Muslim stories about demons. If you've ever seen or heard the story of Aladdin you will know about how Genies are able to grant wishes. Genie is the english translation of Jinn which means demon in Arabic. In both Muslim stories and Christian tales of witchcraft, the Demon often offers to grant a wish in exchange for a soul. The Demon rarely lives up to his side of the bargain (often twisting the wish before granting it)...
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Ancient Evil
So have we seen the Evil Eye at all in Naruto? Well it’s cropped up quite a lot.
I’ll start with Orochimaru. When Orochimaru uses his genjutsu it is able to knock out the most powerful opponents with a glance…
Sasuke and Sakura
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Kakashi
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When his chakra invades somebody they tend to start to lose their mind and their soul:
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This usually exhibits in or around the eye:
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Sasuke was offered power by this eye in order to defeat Itachi:
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Naruto (who is host to the Demon Fox who was formed from the Juubi’s Chakra) was also tempted by the Evil Eye (talking through the Demon Fox):
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It’s not clear yet but Kaguya had a similar markings to Kabutorochimaru just before her transformation into the Demon Rabbit:
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It may be that the entire Uchiha clan fell victim to the Evil Eye. We still don’t know the full picture about what happened on the night of the massacre and the eyes collected from that night are the most likely source for where the new zetsu army got their sharingan from:
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You may or may not have noticed the parallels in the New Zetsu Army to the Army of Madara and Izuna (Izuna being one of the candidates for the new Akatsuki man):
Uchiha Army
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Akatsuki Man and the New Zetsu Army
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The history of the Ootsutsuki being corrupted and the Uchiha being corrupted also has a lot of parallels that could be linked to the Evil Eye. Notice the Eye that allows an Uchiha to massacre his enemies during Itachi’s flashback to the origins of Izanagi:
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Notice the piles of bodies that surround Itachi and Sasuke when they fall under Kabutorochimaru’s genjutsu:
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Finally notice how Kaguya takes the same pose when she starts her tyranny as the “demon”
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The Evil Eye seems to somehow be related to the Sharinnegan and not just in causing the transformation of the Rabbit Goddess into the Demon Rabbit:
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No wonder Orochimaru wants Sasuke’s body – he didn’t have to power to take it before but a lot of time has passed since then and the Snake has probably been busy:
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I think there is a good chance that the Demon might be cozying up to the Child of Destiny because he can recognise what others cannot.. that there is a new Fruit of the Shinju. Orochimaru isn’t Human he is just wearing human skin
He's got a good track record so I don't think he's looking too much into things. There is already an interview where Kishi stated Oro will be in part 3 so it's likely he'll be the final baddie.
He's got a good track record so I don't think he's looking too much into things. There is already an interview where Kishi stated Oro will be in part 3 so it's likely he'll be the final baddie.
There is no "Demon". It's just a nickname Kaguya was given by the people who feared her power.
Same with "Nine Tailed Demon Fox". Just a nickname Kurama was given because he would appear in areas with negative feelings and emotions.
Things like Kaguya having a connection with snakes due to her pose and the pose Sasuke and Itachi had in Kabuto's genjutsu is stretching to make a connection that isn't there.
There's also no connection between Orochimaru and Kurama. Orochimaru has a snake pupil. Kurama has a fox pupil. Those two animals have similar pupils in real life too.
Much of this is just the OP taking two vaguely similar things or ideas and trying to connect them.
There is no "Demon". It's just a nickname Kaguya was given by the people who feared her power.
Same with "Nine Tailed Demon Fox". Just a nickname Kurama was given because he would appear in areas with negative feelings and emotions.
Things like Kaguya having a connection with snakes due to her pose and the pose Sasuke and Itachi had in Kabuto's genjutsu is stretching to make a connection that isn't there.
There's also no connection between Orochimaru and Kurama. Orochimaru has a snake pupil. Kurama has a fox pupil. Those two animals have similar pupils in real life too.
Much of this is just the OP taking two vaguely similar things or ideas and trying to connect them.
There is no "Demon". It's just a nickname Kaguya was given by the people who feared her power.
Same with "Nine Tailed Demon Fox". Just a nickname Kurama was given because he would appear in areas with negative feelings and emotions.
Things like Kaguya having a connection with snakes due to her pose and the pose Sasuke and Itachi had in Kabuto's genjutsu is stretching to make a connection that isn't there.
There's also no connection between Orochimaru and Kurama. Orochimaru has a snake pupil. Kurama has a fox pupil. Those two animals have similar pupils in real life too.
Much of this is just the OP taking two vaguely similar things or ideas and trying to connect them.
even if he is wrong he teaches a lot of History und he delivers a amazing read! His theories are Most of the time better than the actual Story, sth your Comments and posts not have so keep out Here and Post in other Threads.
He RT also says often, maybe its a bit farfetched. But we still like
It's not about everything connecting but about recurring themes that fit a pattern for Kishimoto. Of course Kurama does not connect to Orochimaru in any direct way but overall based on Kishi's foreshadowing style I do think things are leading towards Orochimaru. It's just Kishi following the path set up by the Buddha-shinto religions. This is how people have been able to see years in advance how Orochimaru was gonna break the Reaper, get his arms back, and revive the four Hokages (I think the OP was one of them). Sure, a lot of parts of this theory will be off since Kishi can take the story many ways, but I think the main part is going somewhere.
To put it in a concise way...I don't think Kishimoto is a writer that pulls things out of his backside. He truly loves Japan's history and did a buttload of research. Needless to say I am not a tinfoil hat-wearing "theorist" like Minamotorola.
There is no "Demon". It's just a nickname Kaguya was given by the people who feared her power.
Same with "Nine Tailed Demon Fox". Just a nickname Kurama was given because he would appear in areas with negative feelings and emotions.
Things like Kaguya having a connection with snakes due to her pose and the pose Sasuke and Itachi had in Kabuto's genjutsu is stretching to make a connection that isn't there.
There's also no connection between Orochimaru and Kurama. Orochimaru has a snake pupil. Kurama has a fox pupil. Those two animals have similar pupils in real life too.
Much of this is just the OP taking two vaguely similar things or ideas and trying to connect them.
I agree. I can argue about that sage being an uzumaki theory is along the same lines as this. Everyone reads the theory, gets an orgasm, then anyone with a separate opinion is a hater. Later on theory gets proven wrong and everyone looks like a dumbass.
I agree. I can argue about that sage being an uzumaki theory is along the same lines as this. Everyone reads the theory, gets an orgasm, then anyone with a separate opinion is a hater. Later on theory gets proven wrong and everyone looks like a dumbass.
Except that theory was very constricted. Even if Hagoromo was an Uzumaki, it's effect on the plot would be miniscule cause how much can you stretch that detail without Making it stale.
This theory is different. It's not just about Orochimaru only, it can connect many characters ( Near about 90 per cent if taken to full potential). The implications of this theory's effects on the plot are enormous.
At such I consider this theory a win-win situation either way which is a quality very few theories have. It's s solid enough for Kishi to attempt it and the theory comes true where congratulations goes to Rabbit predicting so much.
If Kishi doesn't follow this plotline, the material given here can be used to make a spin off story or a brand new story.
Moreover, I do think this thread is a very interesting read regardless of whether it comes true or not.
I agree. I can argue about that sage being an uzumaki theory is along the same lines as this. Everyone reads the theory, gets an orgasm, then anyone with a separate opinion is a hater. Later on theory gets proven wrong and everyone looks like a dumbass.
First things first this is just a theory. Good theories can be wrong and bad ones right. Kishi ultimately gets to decide what happens in his manga, not me. I just think that he wants Orochimaru to be the Final Villain and this theory attempts to show how and why. I could be wrong about some or all of the connections I make. If I'm right about even some of them then I figure it would be because Orochimaru is the Final Villain aka the Demon.
There is no "Demon". It's just a nickname Kaguya was given by the people who feared her power.
Same with "Nine Tailed Demon Fox". Just a nickname Kurama was given because he would appear in areas with negative feelings and emotions.
Things like Kaguya having a connection with snakes due to her pose and the pose Sasuke and Itachi had in Kabuto's genjutsu is stretching to make a connection that isn't there.
There's also no connection between Orochimaru and Kurama. Orochimaru has a snake pupil. Kurama has a fox pupil. Those two animals have similar pupils in real life too.
Much of this is just the OP taking two vaguely similar things or ideas and trying to connect them.
There’s more to the theory than you make out but if you don’t see the connections then that’s your prerogative. For me the strongest piece of evidence is that Orochimaru transmigrates which is something that no other character does with the exceptions of Indra and Asura. Unlike Indra and Asura, Orochimaru’s chakra takes over the body and the soul. Also… it isn’t just Kurama’s eyes that look like Orochimaru’s, his chakra does as well.
Kurama (Demon Fox's Chakra)
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Kaguya (Demon Rabbit's Chakra)
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Cursed Seal (the Demon's Chakra - Orochimaru's consciousness is contained within)
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Karin inspecting Kurama – “it’s evil exactly like… [Orochimaru]”
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
I agree. I can argue about that sage being an uzumaki theory is along the same lines as this. Everyone reads the theory, gets an orgasm, then anyone with a separate opinion is a hater. Later on theory gets proven wrong and everyone looks like a dumbass.
It’s not dumb to believe something for which there is evidence but which later proves to be false. It is dumb to come out against a theory based on a completely different one being false. If you want to disagree with my theory then come up with some actual reasons to disagree with it.
As for the Sage being an Uzumaki, well that’s not entirely untrue. Personally I would phrase it that the Uzumaki Clan are a branch of the Ootsutsuki Clan. They are, at the very least, related to the Senju Clan who are confirmed descendants. Then there is how Indra chose to transmigrate into one of his descendants. It would seem at least plausible if not likely that Asura chose to do the same.
Being a descendant of the Sage is not all that unusual, some bloodlines are known to be stronger than others by virtue of their connection to the Sage. One feature identified by A that is supposed to separate descendants from non-descendants is the ability to serve as Jinchuuriki. No clan has been as successful at playing host to the Bijuu as the Uzumaki (Mito, Kushina and Naruto):
You make it sound like a bad thing. The clue's in the title. This is a [Theory] not a [Discussion] thread. There's room to debate ideas around the core theory but I think it's important to shut down conversations that veer off topic. I don't want to get too hung up on side issues because that's how most threads lose their way. This is a relatively simple theory underpinned by a lot of speculation about what Orochimaru has been up to behind the scenes (the Uchiha Massacre, Orochimaru's experiments on Kaguya's Descendants, the destruction of the Uzumaki / Kaguya / Juugo's Clans, the Demonic Statues, the real reason for the invasion of Konoha…). People can join in or disagree with it as much as they want… so long as they remain on topic.
Personally I would phrase it that the Uzumaki Clan are a branch of the Ootsutsuki Clan. They are, at the very least, related to the Senju Clan who are confirmed descendants.
You make it sound like a bad thing. The clue's in the title. This is a [Theory] not a [Discussion] thread. There's room to debate ideas around the core theory but I think it's important to shut down conversations that veer off topic. I don't want to get too hung up on side issues because that's how most threads lose their way. This is a relatively simple theory underpinned by a lot of speculation about what Orochimaru has been up to behind the scenes (the Uchiha Massacre, Orochimaru's experiments on Kaguya's Ancestors, the destruction of the Uzumaki / Kaguya / Juugo's Clans, the Demonic Statues, the real reason for the invasion of Konoha…). People can join in or disagree with it as much as they want… so long as they remain on topic.
Sorry if that sounded bad but that's what it is , it's a show.
The guy wasn't happy that he couldn't interact , but you don't do that when you are spectator of a show.
And shows can be very good.
Evidence that the Senju are descended from Asura and that the Uzumaki are related to the Senju… there's plenty.
I'll accept that it does kind of depend on who you trust in the manga to tell the truth. Part of this theory (not the main part but part nonetheless) is that Tobi / Spiral Zetsu is in fact part of the remains of Indra (the other part being Sasuke's Rinnegan). Only Indra would recognise Asura's hosts and descendants just by looking at them. Tobi confirms the Senju to be descendants of Asura and the Uchiha to be descendants of Indra. Kushina confirms that the Senju and Uzumaki are blood relations.
I'm sure you've seen all this before but for anyone not keeping track...
Senju are distant blood relations of Uzumaki
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Senju are descendants of Asura
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Only Indra's remains could talk of fighting Hashirama (other than Madara)
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Then again maybe it was just Obito lying and keeping up the pretence of being Madara. That's a whole other argument and not related to the subject of this thread. I think there is enough evidence to assume that the Uzumaki are descendants of the Ootsutsuki. This theory is built in part on that assumption. It might not be verified but why waste time arguing an opposing theory (that the Uzumaki aren't related to Hagoromo at all) here when there is plenty other material to discuss on the topic. The theory can stand without that pillar but that pillar is far from disproven.
It's okay… I'll try and keep the thread going as long as I have material to write about or as long as Kishi doesn't find a convincing way to kill a man (if he is a man) whose consciousness is contained within a couple of hundred mutated monsters currently on the loose. Killing demons is a tricky business.
