Kurama's chakra has been depicted a number of different ways.
That wasn't Kaguya's chakra. That was Black Zetsu taking Madara's body.
The Cursed seal is senjutsu.
There's no telling what Karin was going to say, but I doubt it was Orochimaru.
[Theory] The Demon
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That wasn't Kaguya's chakra. That was Black Zetsu taking Madara's body.
The Cursed seal is senjutsu.
There's no telling what Karin was going to say, but I doubt it was Orochimaru.
I didn't try to disprove anything.
I was just correcting one of your mistakes or trying to get the scan that I missed that proves what you say.
And I got no proofs...
You said "Senju are confirmed descendants of the Uzumaki".
That is not true. That's all what I wanted to point.
Even if you know that Kushina ("Uzumaki are distant blood related to Senju") , Black Zetsu ("Nagato is a Senju") and Tobi ("Naruto is a Senju") told us the truth and even if you take these as facts , you don't have one single proof that Uzumaki are Senju ancestors.
The day when we'll learn that Nagato's father , or that Minato isn't from the Senju clan , BZ's words , or Tobi's words , would become "Uzumaki and Senju are descendants or ancestors or branches of the same ancestor".
Until that day , I'll keep correcting you.
_Descendants of Kaguya?
It seems that it's the case , but that's also not confirmed.
Do we saw someone create a working chakra network into a simple human?I don't think so.
So it seems to imply that every ninja is a descendant of Kaguya , but I don't like that idea.
-We have only one reason not to believe in the tablet when it says that Kaguya was the first to use chakra , it's because it also says that the fruit was traditionnally forbidden pre-Kaguya.
How did they know it was dangerous if nobody ate it before?
-And I don't see why Hagoromo wouldn't be able to create a chakra network into a simple human with COAT.
_Or descendants of another Ootsutsuki?Post Kaguya (Hamura descendants) or pre Kaguya (Kaguya ancestors)?
Orochimaru is one of the most interesting character.
Keep this thread going on , I like to read it , it's a good show even if there are little mistakes , there are enough good reads to make me forget them.
I hope that you'll have enough material to cover the years of manga that are coming.
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Rabbit Teth
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I'm sorry but I'm not accepting that as a retort. You'll have to do much better than that if you want to debunk my points. I hope you go ahead and try. You are either completely incapable of appreciating the connections between the panels I picked out for you or you are the apocryphal girlfriend who believed all of Shaggy’s lies - because that's about the level of your argument:
[video=youtube;Qv5fqunQ_4I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv5fqunQ_4I[/video]
Transmigration Orochimaru
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Second, you fail to address the similarities between the Cursed Seal Chakra that makes up the Demon Fox, that recreated the Demon Rabbit and which contains Orochimaru’s consciousness. If you deny that they look similar say so because not that long ago you were telling me that Kurama and Orochimaru had no similarities whatsoever.
Third lets look at your actual arguments.
You say this like it disproves something I say when in fact I think it is significant that that Kurama’s Chakra changes depending on his mood. Kurama’s Chakra only looks like that when he is the “living embodiment of hatred” – here’s a more complete scan:
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I’ll correct you there. The Chakra that turns Madara into Zetsu looks like this
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No argument here. If Orochimaru can use Senjutsu then it puts him at Sage Level at a minimum. Kabuto, his closest confidante used to be under the impression that Orochimaru couldn’t use Sage Mode. It would seem that Orochimaru has been lying to Kabuto and that he has much more power to show off than we have seen thus far.
It’s a special kind of stupid that has their crossword filled in for them and then crosses out the answer without providing a better alternative. If you have any alternatives that could fill that gap better than my suggestion then I would like to see it. I can at least back up my arguments.
That’s not to say that this theory isn’t wrong … it might still be … it’s just that you have singularly failed to provide any reason why my arguments are wrong or explain why there are so many connections between Kurama and Orochimaru. Your responses are laughable … which brings me onto Orochimaru's laugh, have you ever noticed how Demon Fox Kurama and Orochimaru have the same laugh…
Kurama
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Naruto:
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I don’t mind people pointing out errors. Most of the time it helps improve the theory. If you are going to correct mistakes then make sure mistakes were actually made. I never said what you quoted me as saying… namely that the "Senju are confirmed descendants of the Uzumaki" (though if I did it would have been a Typo – please provide my actual quote that you take issue with). What you highlighted in my original post was …
If this is what you take issue with then you are correcting a mistake that I didn’t make (and not for the first time either). They (the Uzumaki) are related to the Senju and the Senju are confirmed to be descended from the Ootsutsuki. Perhaps my use of grammar confused you, perhaps you are correcting some other comment I made. Nevertheless, I then went on to provide the evidence that you said didn’t exist.
I think you simply misread my original post and that’s okay. I always liked the theories that Minato was the one descended from the Senju. Over the years that possibility has become more and more remote though… requiring Nagato to have a Senju parent as well as an Uzumaki… in addition to Minato being a Senju. That the Uzumaki have any blood relation to the Senju does actually translate into Naruto having some of Asura's blood whether the Uzumaki are the more legitimate or less legitimate heirs to Asura (ie. which clan came first). I hope this clears up your confusion.
You’re right, I should try to be less mean. Unfortunately I see it as a consequence of writing long theories. I try to respond to points people make as much as I can but at the same time the theory still has to accommodate new developments in chapters as they come out and quite often there are four or five genuine posts to respond to by the time I’ve gotten to answering the last one.
People can question ideas I develop as much as they like or add their own but if they assert that the whole theory is wrong based off of a couple of dismissive remarks then they can expect to get short shrift. This is a long ass theory with a lot of material behind it. It doesn't make the theory right but it does mean I have a lot of ammunition to respond to people who assert they know better but can't find any actual holes in the theory. I should get back developing the theory itself … there were some interesting revelations in the most recent chapter that I haven't gotten round to yet.
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Orochimaru is able to move bodies with his Fushi Tensei jutsu.
This is just laughable.
The "Demon Fox" Kurama isn't made up of Cursed Seal chakra.
The Curse Seal markings and Kurama's chakra do not look alike. That image isn't a representation of Kurama's chakra. It's a representation of the Chakra network that runs through the body.
That is Kaguya. Kurama and Naruto are discussing how strong the Ten Tails is. Kaguya is the Ten Tails. The story of the Ten Tails has already been told. Kaguya fused with the Shinju, turning into the monster known as the Ten Tails, and rampaged the land to reclaim the chakra her two sons obtained.
So you're telling me that is chakra, and not Black Zetsu taking Madara's body? Even though these scans show Black Zetsu leaving Obito's body as he is taking Madara's body.
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And then, Obito is shown with no Black Zetsu on his body.
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Black Zetsu, the embodiment of Kaguya's will, fused himself with Madara, who possessed the Ten Tails' (Kaguya) chakra, reviving her. Next time we see him, he's chillin in her sleeves.
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He didn't just Houdini himself in there.
Orochimaru wasn't alive when Kaguya was around. Even if, by some stretch of the imagination, he was alive, he wouldn't have chakra. Kaguya was the only being who possessed chakra at the time. It wasn't until after she was sealed that Hagoromo spread chakra around the world.
There is only 1 Kaguya.
The markings don't really look similar. And every Cursed Seal has different markings anyway.
One of those "markings" is Black Zetsu. The other is caused by senjutsu transformation.
Orochimaru couldn't use Sage Mode. That's why he created the Cursed Seals as an alternative.
Sasuke. Why not? Karin noted several times prior to that how cold Sasuke's chakra was becoming. Kurama himself stated Sasuke's chakra was "more sinister than my own".
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What does that matter? "Kukuku" is a fairly common laugh for an antagonist.
Orochimaru wants to be released so he can take Sasuke's body. Kurama wants to free himself from the seal.
Rabbit Teth
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That’s a cop out if ever I saw one. I don’t speak Japanese but the English translations are pretty uniform in describing Orochimaru’s personal dimension as the location of his Transmigration Ritual…. Transmigration being the key word. Moving bodies doesn't do justice to what Orochimaru is capable of. He was tucked up in Anko for years watching everything while he prepared Sasuke to be ready to take out Itachi. He then had Kabuto hijack Madara / Tobi's plans for conquest. His "split consciousness" is the single most OP ultimate defence there is and perfect for causing disruption on all fronts. I think we'll get to see much more of what Orochimaru is capable of in upcoming movies / chapters. My best bet for his current location is Mitsuki but Orochimaru is bound to turn up somewhere he isn't welcome (see previous posts for how and why).
Not just shifting bodies but controlling multiple bodies at once… against their will.
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Come up with your own insults. Your ideas are derivative and nonsensical. You should spend more time developing your own ideas than hanging around criticizing Minamoto and any other theory thread you can find. At least his threads have their own brand of logic and they’re original and creative. Criticism is an art and while you're upping your game from total irrelevance to half-formed ideas you've still got a long way to go.
It sure looks like Kurama was made of Cursed Seal Chakra but you can deny it if you like. It is described variously as the embodiment of hatred / reeking malice / concentrated evil (he's come a long way since then but it's hard to deny his original nature). Kurama is not the only Bijuu made from Cursed Seal Chakra either… Shukaku is covered in them as well and he used to feed off human blood every full moon:
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Gyuuki's Horn
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There’s more to the story than what we’ve heard so far. I expect to hear a lot more about Kaguya in future… some backstory about how and why she turned evil in particular. The war arc was an unsatisfying conclusion to Naruto because it was never intended to be the finale of Naruto. We are already half way into this run of Gaiden Chapters (apparently there are going to be 10) but there is already build up for a villain more powerful, more ancient and more evil than Kaguya … this theory predicted that sort of development.
Black Zetsu has a sort of liquid goo body. He envelops other bodies rather than infect and transform them. Cursed Seals can infect bodies and Cursed Seals do transform bodies all the time in the manga. Black Zetsu was not part of Madara or the Kaguya recreation that he became.
Yep, Black Zetsu can envelop bodies and control them but he never really fuses with them or transforms them in the same way that Cursed Seals do.
Black Zetsu was always carried in the sleeve. He was never a part of Madara nor was he ever a part of the Kaguya recreation. Black Zetsu prepared the way for Kaguya’s revival. He didn’t become Kaguya. During the entire fight Kaguya was in two minds about whether she should kill the hosts of her grandsons or whether she missed them … hence the tears / attempts to kill Naruto and Sasuke shtick.
Tears
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Unless Orochimaru was part of the reason why Kaguya was corrupted in the first place. One of the other names for Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal is the Devil’s Fruit. Things started going wrong for Kaguya after she ate the “Forbidden Fruit”. I make the connection in a couple of posts but check out the Nazarene for more detail. Kishi seems to have lifted various bits of the story straight out of the tale about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
There should only be one Shin. There should have only been one Zetsu. Madara lived by the sword and he died by the sword but not before he ended up in a dress as part of someone else’s revival. I think Kaguya is somewhere else. The Kaguya we saw was only a facsimile created using using all of the blood of her descendants as collected by the Shinju Flower.
Get some glasses… they look exactly the same. You could try and blame it on lazy drawing but Kishi tends to be very careful about those sorts of details. It’s part of how he unfolds his story. You’re guilty of lower tier trolling for even trying to pretend they look different. Cursed Seals do come in different designs but those three all look exactly the same.
Here they are again for anyone who hasn’t read the last couple of posts in order – Kurama’s Chakra / Kaguya Transformation / Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal
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If Orochimaru had shown all the tricks he had up his sleeve then he would be dead already. The only reason why he is still alive is that he has a purpose to serve within the story. I think he's been holding back. We won't know for certain until he is killed for real. This is a theory that suggests he is the villain and attempts to piece together what little we know about him and his abilities. I'm not offering proof, I'm offering evidence to make a case. You can take it or leave it but please don't lurk around making ill thought through criticisms. I don't mind debate but your tone offends me. At least this time around you tried to engage some of the actual points I made which is progress but I don't see anything in what you write that disproves this theory. Perhaps you should try again. My theory is conjecture, your argument is mostly founded on baseless assertions (and your last post entirely so).
Well, at least you tried to offer an alternative explanation. First of all the Eyes that Kurama recognised that belonged to both Madara and Sasuke were probably the Eyes that once also belonged to Indra. Indra was a puppet rather than a Final Villain though I do think he will turn up again in one form or another (cough Spiral).
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Karin sensing a shift in Sasuke’s Chakra
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Fairly common for the Antagonist yes but you don't seem to think that Orochimaru poses any threat at all. Naruto, Sasuke and Kakashi all seem to rate Orochimaru as the most likely threat behind all the current goings on. I think their suspicions are well founded. Do you think that the same old Orochimaru would be worthy to feature in the upcoming movie or New Era Project… because I don't. I think there is a good chance we'll get to see how much of a threat Orochimaru really poses which is greater than what has been revealed so far but only because Orochimaru has been keeping secret the true extent of his powers. Maniacal laughter tends to be a feature of Final Villains.
Both Orochimaru and the Demon Fox were made stronger by hatred. Sasuke gave into his while Naruto learned to first control it and then to overcome it. Sasuke has more or less caught up with Naruto but I wonder whether Sasuke would offer himself to Orochimaru in order to save his daughter – he’s already shown a willingness to take a knife for her (or several)… it would be one way Sasuke could redeem himself:
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Orochimagus
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This person seems more interested in arguing for argument's sake. I see them only half-heartedly reading your rebuttals and not even addressing them properly.
On the topic of similarities of chakra,
The first from of the Bijju's chakra is always shown with bubbles.
Orochimaru's transmigration Chakra has the same bubbles around the chakra.
The second form of the Bijuu's chakra is more solid Black/Red.
The Specter's and Orochimaru's Black Chakra are also the same.
Bijuu Like Black Face.
Specter.
Black Bijuu Chakra.
Another thing that I find suspicious though is how we saw Ashura's spirit within Naruto.
But we didn't see Indra's spirit within Sasuke. Could this be a hint by Kishi that Indra's spirit is somewhere else ?
The first from of the Bijju's chakra is always shown with bubbles.
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Orochimaru's transmigration Chakra has the same bubbles around the chakra.
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The second form of the Bijuu's chakra is more solid Black/Red.
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The Specter's and Orochimaru's Black Chakra are also the same.
Bijuu Like Black Face.
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Specter.
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Black Bijuu Chakra.
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Another thing that I find suspicious though is how we saw Ashura's spirit within Naruto.
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But we didn't see Indra's spirit within Sasuke. Could this be a hint by Kishi that Indra's spirit is somewhere else ?
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Hehe , the corrector corrected.
Did you need to be that long to explain that I misunderstood your ambiguous post without admitting that it was ambiguous?
"They (you were talking about Uzumaki and that was obvious) are, at the very least, related to the Senju Clan who are confirmed descendants (you were talking about the Ootsutsuki clan and that's not obvious)."
Your grammar wasn't that good , that's not only my mistake , but firstly that was yours.
That's not confirmed , like it's not confirmed that every ninja is a descendant of Kaguya , and that's a part of what I wanted to point.
So my posts still has value to disprove this statement.
When you try to rephrase things you often add extra meaning into the phrase , you try to arrange things like you want to.
That's what you did here , a mistake.
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dizzynaruto
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The jutsu is called Fushi Tensei. It's a jutsu that Orochimaru performs to change hosts. Call it what you want, but that's what it is. Orochimaru didn't have Kabuto do anything. During the war Kabuto was acting of his own accord.
It's funny you would say this to me, considering your ideas consist of Orochimaru being thousands of years old to have manipulated Kaguya with his chakra, even though Kaguya was the only one to possess chakra at that time. :lol
I don't see what Minamoto has to do with your theory. Try to stay on topic.
Kurama isn't made of Cursed Seal chakra. Just to point this out again, this image:
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is not Kurama's chakra. It's the chakra network that runs through the body and is present in every being that possesses chakra. Again, it is not Kurama's chakra.
Shukaku's seals are not related to Orochimaru. Orochimaru's Cursed Seals were created by him long after Hagoromo created the Bijuu.
So I'm having a discussion with someone who didn't read the manga? It's plainly obvious Black Zetsu left Obito's body, took Madara's body, and was then with Kaguya when she was revived using Madara's body.
Once again, Orochimaru wasn't around when Kaguya was. If he was, that would make him thousands of years old. This is obviously not the case, since we've seen young Orochimaru along with young Jiraiya and young Tsunade. Also, Orochimaru wouldn't have possessed chakra at the time Kaguya was around, because she was the only one with chakra. Therefore, he couldn't have corrupted her with his chakra like you believe. Going against the manga to try to prove your theory. :lol
What do you base this on? We know nothing about Shin. There was always more than 1 Zetsu. Zetsu is what a person becomes after being left in Infinite Tsukuyomi.
There are no implications of Indra in that page :lol
Kurama is comparing Sasuke to Madara, who controlled him with his eyes at one point.
If by "Spiral" you mean Guruguru, he crumbled away after Infinite Tsukuyomi was released.
Orochimaru was no longer inside Sasuke. Itachi removed Orochimaru and the Cursed Seal with Totsuka.
Karin can't sense something that isn't there.
I don't think Sasuke is related to Kurama. I also never said Sasuke was evil like the fox. I just offered an alternate explanation for what Karin was thinking, like you wanted.
Putting Sasuke's cold chakra as a comparison to the chakra Karin sensed doesn't mean there is any relation between the two characters.
The main focus of Gaiden and the Boruto movie is the new generation. Unless these kids are going to get crazy powers out of thin air, I don't see Orochimaru being this massive threat you make him out to be. He's clearly not the "bigger than Kaguya" threat that she was preparing an army for, since he didn't exist at that time.
Rabbit Teth
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Thanks dude, I’ll try and get the thread back on course soon but first I’ve got to deal with a pair of village idiots.This is very solid and well done.
Great thread man!
+Rep
Nobody likes a Grammar Nazi, much less one who doesn’t know how to use grammar. If you had stopped your post with the above then that would have been that but then you try and blame me for your misunderstanding. There was no problem with my grammar. You simply read what you wanted to read and then launched into a tirade about some ancillary issue. What I wrote was not “ambiguous”. I still had to explain it to you at greater length because you had trouble with reading plain English. You then went on to quote me as saying something I did not say. For the record, you should only use quotation marks when you can actually attribute those words to somebody, which you cannot. The mistake was entirely yours. When people attempt to apologise they should show contrition. You accused me of something untrue and then complain when I correct a misunderstanding that was all in your head… pfft.
Count this as your second warning. You’ve gotten a pass thus far because you usually ask good questions and your posts and ideas are generally interesting, but that half arsed apology takes the biscuit.
Shows generally have policies about who they let in. If they don't throw the drunks out when they get rowdy then the show can be ruined for everyone. You get one more pass but I don’t want to hear any more about Minato’s potential lineage on this thread unless it actually becomes relevant (which currently it is not). If you want a discussion thread about that then start one.
… and sorry about calling you a village idiot. The next guy makes you look like a genius.
The technique has a name but it consists of transmigrating. Chidori has a special name but all it consists of is nature manipulation. Transmigration is special. Only two other characters are known to be able to do it, Indra and Asura. Their form of Transmigration does not allow them to overwrite themselves onto the bodies of their hosts… nor does it allow them to remove the free will of their hosts. Orochimaru can overwrite himself onto anyone infected by his cursed seal once his “Transmigration Ritual” is complete and he can reside dormant in a cursed seal for as long as he wishes. This is more powerful than Indra and Asura’s forms of Transmigration on its own. What is more is that Orochimaru can split his consciousness and emerge from anyone infected. This is the single most OP defense there is in the manga.
As for Kabuto “acting of his own accord” that is demonstrably untrue. Kabuto discusses how his body has been infected by Orochimaru’s chakra and how he was having trouble preventing it from taking over entirely:
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If Orochimaru’s technique only allowed him to transfer from one body to another then why was Orochimaru able to see everything that Anko was able to see and then re-emerge from her Cursed Seal. He should have been dead as soon as he was cut down by Sasuke and hadn’t been able to transfer into a new body but he wasn’t… because he does more than just transfer between bodies.
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The first bit is the topic of the thread… a thread you haven't actually read through. The second is a shout out to someone who writes threads that get plagued with trolls. I sympathise with him entirely.
Naruto’s normal chakra network does not have a Spiral
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You’ve read through this entire theory and you don’t think I read the manga? Are you a complete imbecile? Then again it's pretty clear you haven't read much of anything. I also don't see what you're arguing with here. I was simply pointing out that the Chakra that transformed Madara into Kaguya was plainly different to the Chakra that Black Zetsu normally uses to take over people's bodies. The pair are both black but cursed seal chakra - specifically like that of Orochimaru, specifically like that of the Demon Fox and specifically like that which transforms Madara into Kaguya - branches over the body while Black Zetsu just envelops. What you point out doesn't correct anything.
To be clear if Orochimaru is the Demon then Orochimaru is not the name he has always used. Jiraiya always gave Orochimaru the benefit of the doubt because he remembered his friend before his friend’s parents were killed and his friend himself became somebody else. Before Kaguya became the Demon she was known as the Rabbit Goddess and was adored by everyone.
The Demon’s Previous Names
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You clearly haven’t read through this thread. You have no idea what you’re arguing against. You can read through the rest of my posts if you like and you should be able to answer your own questions about what my ideas are on various subjects… or not. If you can’t be bothered to read what you’re criticizing then I can’t be bothered answering your posts.
You're right. I'll stick to answering genuine posts in future. I don't usually get the time to reply to every question or idea so I should stick to answering sincere ones. I'll move onto the latest chapter next. I've wasted enough time dealing with fools.
Oops , you are disappointed.
Now I need Izanami no jutsu to make you admit your mistakes.
That's exactly why I said your thread is a show.
You don't listen to people , you talk , you even talk a lot , and very often , you talk too much.
And now , you are rambling on (that's an effect of talking too much) , I already answered , so , it's you who make the thread be off topic.
I told you that your grammar was ambiguous and I explained why , your reply is :no , it's not , so I'm going to let you in your deny world where you are perfect.
Your grammar was perfect , only in your brain and in your world.
Why didn't you get worked up by the other mistake that you made and that I pointed.
Are you admitting this mistake by omission?Nice way to admit a mistake.For a coward proud of himself.A real man faces his mistakes.
You more probably didn't read that part , as you don't listen to people.
It's funny how worked up you get and how easily.
The funniest thing is that my goal was to improve your theory by pointing a mistake.
You even had to come with insults , so you make me look like a genius too.
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And now we reach the point where I am screaming to davidou and zawerni keep the **** out of here and stop wasting RT Time to post new input about his amazing read.
After all its a theory - a theory like no theory before here at NB! This Thread is the only reason why I am still at NB! Most of the time silently reading. Try to understand his points and I enjoy it every time!
And I really hate haters like you. Go create your own super fact threads! I did some research in your threads, and you cant provide anything close to this theory.
RT is doing an huge amount of research and provides SOLID manga proofs and whats also very special --- superb interesting historical informations... normal manga readers would never know!
He doesnt even need to justify his posts to you folks, cause one post is > you.
And there are many out there who enjoy the from you called " show ". So just stay quiet and read sth else.
This thread is for me like a naruto manga. I always look up here for amazing posts and I dont want it to stop.
I feel sorry for RT often, cause I cant give him more input.. since I have no eyes for the details.
After all its a theory - a theory like no theory before here at NB! This Thread is the only reason why I am still at NB! Most of the time silently reading. Try to understand his points and I enjoy it every time!
And I really hate haters like you. Go create your own super fact threads! I did some research in your threads, and you cant provide anything close to this theory.
RT is doing an huge amount of research and provides SOLID manga proofs and whats also very special --- superb interesting historical informations... normal manga readers would never know!
He doesnt even need to justify his posts to you folks, cause one post is > you.
And there are many out there who enjoy the from you called " show ". So just stay quiet and read sth else.
This thread is for me like a naruto manga. I always look up here for amazing posts and I dont want it to stop.
I feel sorry for RT often, cause I cant give him more input.. since I have no eyes for the details.
So naruto is curious orochimaru looking younger. Yet Shin is only like a filler villain. That means we Need another villain. Orochimaru!!! Looks younger ----> mitsuki? Possible Cause orochimaru stated himself Nobody should Be curious Cause After all he is orochimaru. ( this also disproves zawernis Point that oro was young when he was with jiraya and its possible that he is an ancient danger)
Future Development:
All is going good for him!
First of all I Maybe the dna suigetsu used was indeed sakuras. So he Proved sakuras is the mother. But thats only speculation but its a possible point where kishi can troll us.
Anyways i guess sarada is now there where oro wants her. She did awake the sharingan and more Important she is for the moment against naruto sasuke and sakura. And this leads her to ? Orochimaru cause karin is in taka and im pretty sure sarada wants to meet her.
Also a very important note: all of orochimarus puppets for example Kabuto lost their own identity ( also obito and he was used by madara) and now the same happens to sarada in the very Last panel.
Im at my iPhone i will add panels later!!
( side Note: so oro will also get shin back? Beware orochimarus Relation to kaguyasclan/timeline
Future Development:
All is going good for him!
First of all I Maybe the dna suigetsu used was indeed sakuras. So he Proved sakuras is the mother. But thats only speculation but its a possible point where kishi can troll us.
Anyways i guess sarada is now there where oro wants her. She did awake the sharingan and more Important she is for the moment against naruto sasuke and sakura. And this leads her to ? Orochimaru cause karin is in taka and im pretty sure sarada wants to meet her.
Also a very important note: all of orochimarus puppets for example Kabuto lost their own identity ( also obito and he was used by madara) and now the same happens to sarada in the very Last panel.
Im at my iPhone i will add panels later!!
( side Note: so oro will also get shin back? Beware orochimarus Relation to kaguyasclan/timeline
Movie's Villain is revealed, it seems.
I wonder if that's Madara's Rinnegan on his palms. The way it's shown reminds me of something like this :-
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Rabbit Teth
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I don't want to fight the same war on multiple fronts. I've already posted some thoughts on Mitsuki and I'll expand a little on them here.You must be registered for see links
I would like to hear your opinion
Anyway... big news this week, a lot was confirmed which had previously only been theorized while much more was hinted at which fits the overall direction of this theory even if it falls short of actually confirming it. This is pretty much all speculation but I thought I'd tie together a couple of ideas that have been spaced out over this thread. If you don't like speculation or are scared of potential spoilers then don't read...
Shin
This week, we found out a lot about Shin, though the character himself is still something of a mystery. We also finally got to meet the new (or is that one of the new) Orochimaru, who helpfully filled in some of the blanks about Shin. Unfortunately, Orochimaru's version of events created as many new questions as it originally answered. This week reinforced a lot of the ongoing themes surrounding the character of Orochimaru and hinted at developments to come. We also got the first poster for Boruto: The Movie which had some huge revelations which also suggested the Snake has been busy during the timeskip. I’ll try and break it down as much as possible and throw in a couple of new ideas for good measure.
Final Villain Themes
Origins
Eyes and Sockets
Grand Designs
Next Steps
Final Villain Themes
I wanted to emphasis something which most people would overlook but which I think is important and which forms the backbone of this thread. Shin sees Orochimaru as his teacher and the lessons that Shin has put into practice are but a pale reflection of what I think his teacher has achieved over millennia.
Shin the Apprentice
Shin treats his clones as spare body parts because he was raised in order to provide spare body parts for Danzo:
Shin harvests Mini Shin
… just as Orochimaru harvested Shin
Shin ponders on the nature of immortality. Rather than seeing his clones as his children to take over after him he considers his clones to be a means of continuing his life when he gets injured in battle:
Throwing his kid under the bus
Taking his kid’s organs to live on at his son / clone’s expense
Naruto’s disapproval
This is a theme that I think applies to Orochimaru. This theory posits that Orochimaru is the Demon who first corrupted Kaguya. If this theory is accurate then he has lived for thousands upon thousands of years… corrupting those he could generation after generation… transferring bodies as each of his hosts gets exhausted… and harvesting Kaguya’s descendants as a means of developing the perfect host. Shin is following the example of his mentor to the letter.
Shin the Apprentice
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Shin treats his clones as spare body parts because he was raised in order to provide spare body parts for Danzo:
Shin harvests Mini Shin
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Throwing his kid under the bus
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[video=youtube;ZuPe-ly0BHM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuPe-ly0BHM[/video]
While we know that Shin was grown in order to provide the perfect body parts for transplant it is worth considering whether there were any related experiments that might be connected to Shin. Where better than to start looking for Shin relations than that other Shin we know of who was inducted into Danzo’s special training academy (the one where they fought to the death until only the best survived).
If you consider that each of the children who fought in these contests were either orphans who didn’t have parents to protect them or experiments that Orochimaru is likely to have grown then you should be able to see the potential for a pattern that goes back decades upon decades within Root.
Sai didn’t even have a name before he adopted the one he was given for his mission to infiltrate Team 7:
Sai was the only survivor of his class and has the same pale white skin as the current crop of Mini Shin while Sai’s ‘brother’ Shin (not a biological brother) might well have been a failed prototype:
Sai and Shin
Orochimaru went through many experiments before he found one that could be used to make replacement limbs / organs that would never be rejected - failed experiments were put down once they no longer served their function:
Sai never knew his name or his parents perhaps instead of being an abandoned war orphan he was an experiment like Shin and potentially many others:
Unlike the new Shin, Sai at least was able to rehabilate himself into normal society… though it’s taken a long time.
If you consider that each of the children who fought in these contests were either orphans who didn’t have parents to protect them or experiments that Orochimaru is likely to have grown then you should be able to see the potential for a pattern that goes back decades upon decades within Root.
Sai didn’t even have a name before he adopted the one he was given for his mission to infiltrate Team 7:
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Sai and Shin
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We learned this week that Shin is not an Uchiha
Last week we got to see Shin’s Mangekyou Sharingan
This was more or less confirmation that Shin’s Eye wasn’t related to either Izuna or Shisui. We know what both of their MS looked like:
Izuna (Left)
Shisui
That still begs the question about where Shin got his Sharingan from. If he wasn’t an Uchiha and only has Sharingan all over his body because they were transplanted there then where did this new Sharingan and all its many copies come from?
The new Shin clones shouldn’t have Sharingan if they are simply just clones of a non-Uchiha. Personally I think that Sarada might have been the creation of one of the same experiments that created this new generation of Shin. Sarada has some of the same expressions as Shin, what makes Shin perfect for transplants is his blood that can heal any wound (like Karin’s blood) and I don’t think Sasuke is such a scumbag that he would cheat on Sakura but he might keep Sarada's origins secret from her so that Sarada might grow up with the family that he had taken away from him at a similarly young age…
Sarada
Shiny New Shin
Karin’s blood can heal any wound without being rejected;
…Just like Shin’s organs and limbs can be transplanted into any body
Scumbag?
The New Sharingan might come from experimenting on Sharingan that came from the Uchiha Massacre or it might come from the New Eye that Madara said he was working on during the war (accessible by Tobi / Spiral):
We know that Shin is being commanded by the mini Zetsu characters who all have the same eye as Shin and his clones:
These Mini Zetsu are not clones and have not been accounted for by Orochimaru. I think that these mini Zetsu can only be copies of Spiral Zetsu who received Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal shortly before the deactivation of Infinite Tsukuyomi. Orochimaru might not be commanding Shin directly but I think he is more than capable of controlling him indirectly through Spiral.
Orochimaru was made of a Zetsu body before Infinite Tsukuyomi was dispelled, if Orochimaru survived because of his Sage Chakra then Spiral could have as well – though like every other Cursed Seal victim he would now be under the Snake’s command…
Orochimaru Zetsu Body (made of Hashirama’s cells)
Tobi (Spiral) Cursed Seal
Orochimaru probably knows he was being carefully scrutinized by his subordinates (the remnants of Team Taka / Hebi) and his former guinea pig (Yamato). Orochimaru has the ability to make perfect clones:
He also has the ability to disguise himself amongst top rank Ninja without them noticing. Nobody in the Sand was aware that the Kazekage had been replaced by the Snake, not even the Kazekage’s children:
Orochimaru is more than capable fooling people that he is busy in one place while he gets on with his real goals elsewhere.
A while ago I made the case that Mitsuki could be Orochimaru’s main body (Blue Haired Kid? – page 11).
The version of Orochimaru that we met this week was noticeably younger than the last version of Orochimaru that we met:
If Orochimaru were trying to infiltrate the Leaf then a child would be the least likely to arouse suspicion and the best means of getting close to Boruto and Sarada (the two ninja with the strongest bloodline connections to Kaguya). Mitsuki even wears pretty much the same clothing as his more senior counterpart:
He has the Eyes of Orochimaru’s Hosts…
Mitsuki
Orochimaru Hidden Sound Instructor
Mitsuki Colour
Orochimaru in Gen'yūmaru
… and he knows more about the clans of Konoha than he should for an outsider:
Just as Orochimaru did when he was first a child in the Leaf (I think he was already thousands of years old when this happened – so he wasn’t just clever … he knew)
If I’m right then the Demon has been alive for thousands of years trying to avoid any unwanted attention by masquerading as innocent little children. The Demon’s biggest fear is being found out:
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Izuna (Left)
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The new Shin clones shouldn’t have Sharingan if they are simply just clones of a non-Uchiha. Personally I think that Sarada might have been the creation of one of the same experiments that created this new generation of Shin. Sarada has some of the same expressions as Shin, what makes Shin perfect for transplants is his blood that can heal any wound (like Karin’s blood) and I don’t think Sasuke is such a scumbag that he would cheat on Sakura but he might keep Sarada's origins secret from her so that Sarada might grow up with the family that he had taken away from him at a similarly young age…
Sarada
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Orochimaru was made of a Zetsu body before Infinite Tsukuyomi was dispelled, if Orochimaru survived because of his Sage Chakra then Spiral could have as well – though like every other Cursed Seal victim he would now be under the Snake’s command…
Orochimaru Zetsu Body (made of Hashirama’s cells)
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Orochimaru probably knows he was being carefully scrutinized by his subordinates (the remnants of Team Taka / Hebi) and his former guinea pig (Yamato). Orochimaru has the ability to make perfect clones:
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A while ago I made the case that Mitsuki could be Orochimaru’s main body (Blue Haired Kid? – page 11).
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Mitsuki
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If you accept that Orochimaru is the Demon then what can that reveal about the Demon’s plans? As a several thousand-year-old force for evil he has been carefully moving the pieces on the board in order to obtain what he wants (everything)
Orochimaru had Danzo co-operate with Tobi in order to obtain Sharingan
Orochimaru had Danzo aid in allowing the Sand to infiltrate the Chuunin Exams (allowing Kabuto to get into place)
Danzo’s greatest fear when he became Hokage was the discovery by anyone else that he had been in hock to the Snake:
Orochimaru never told anyone his real motive for invading the Leaf
His goal seems to have been to obtain samples from Hinata (the Byakugan Princess) – this was Kabuto’s secret mission:
Kiba and Akamaru had their suspicions before anybody else and were knocked out for asking too many questions:
Then there is Orochimaru’s involvement with Akatsuki. Orochimaru was an integral part of the organization before he was ever even a member. Orochimaru knew far too much about what was going on. He maneuvered Kabuto into place so that it would seem like Akatsuki was inviting Orochimaru to join them instead of the reality which was that Orochimaru invited himself:
Orochimaru might have been a key player in making sure the organization fell into Madara / Obito’s hands. Orochimaru could have been the one to have Danzo crack down on Akatsuki while it was still a group of freedom fighters so that they would fall in line with Tobi:
Orochimaru knew what was on Naka Shrine Tablet
Orochimaru might have been working with Black Zetsu as well – Black Zetsu conveniently saw to it that Madara’s body would fall into Kabuto’s hands
It would not be a surprise for Black Zetsu to be working with Orochimaru if Orochimaru were the Demon… Like father like son so to speak:
Son
Father
No wonder the Leafs greatest ninja always jump to the assumption that Orochimaru is behind everything… he usually has been:
Kakashi
Jiraiya
… and not just the Leaf Ninja but Tobi and Madara had their concerns as well
Tobi
Madara
As close an eye as Jiraiya kept on Orochimaru it wasn’t close enough…
Say that Orochimaru were the Demon and that he had infiltrated the leaf for a second time, this time as Mitsuki... What would he be after? I think that Orochimaru is likely chasing the Fruit of the Shinju. The Fruit of the Shinju grows every 1000 years. The Shinju was fused with Kaguya. If the Shinju were to grow a new fruit then it might be a descendant of Kaguya instead of a new fruit. Boruto looks like a fruit (he has a stem).
The Shinju grows a new fruit every 1000 years
Kaguya fused with the Shinju
Boruto and Himawari both have stems
Cartoon fruit with stem
Orochimaru had Danzo co-operate with Tobi in order to obtain Sharingan
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Son
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Kakashi
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Tobi
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The Shinju grows a new fruit every 1000 years
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Here is the new poster for Boruto: The Movie
A couple of details about this poster really jump out. I will put to one side my suspicions about Mitsuki and focus on the big bad of the poster hovering overhead. You will notice the markings on his forehead… this is a member of the Kaguya Clan or a clone made using their DNA (Kimimaro belonged to the Kaguya Clan):
Orochimaru is the only character with the means to make a new Kaguya Clansman using the DNA he collected from his experiments:
Orochimaru’s Chakra is more than powerful enough to make sure that however strong the body is, it will always serve the will of the Snake:
Orochimaru was probably the one who destroyed Kimimaro’s Clan, just as the Demon saw to the destruction of so many others:
You will also notice the Rinnegan on this new big bad’s hands. These are called Hamsa. They are related to the Nazar, which I mentioned in my last post about the Nazarene. They are usually meant to protect against great evil but I get the impression here that they will be used in service of the Demon. I think Boruto will be the Child of Destiny whose job it is to take out the great pretender.
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Orochimagus
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Well, it has been 1000 years since Kaguya was sealed. Maybe the power is indeed dispersed between Naruto's kids. Great eye on the fruit hair thing.
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