after seeing the last poster from Boruto movie , u still think Orochimaru is the demon ? and is the one who poisoned Kaguya? Since this last villain doesnt look anything like Orochimaru... i think he is just another freak from Otsutsuki family...
Doesn`t this whole Shin clone DNA kinda reminded you of the whole White Zetsu army which ties in to this whole mystery upon Sasuke investigation in regard to kaguya trace which was led to believe someone who invented the Zetsu poses bigger threat ??
after seeing the last poster from Boruto movie , u still think Orochimaru is the demon ? and is the one who poisoned Kaguya? Since this last villain doesnt look anything like Orochimaru... i think he is just another freak from Otsutsuki family...
Yep. I still think Oro is the Demon. This new villain looks like nothing special to me. He'll probably combine several special abilities but nothing that hasn't been tackled before. I figure he'll get taken down in the last 10 mins of the movie and we'll hear nothing about him ever again. At least a couple of the villains in the Shippuden movies have had either direct or indirect ties to Orochimaru. This one looks like he's been made to harness Hagoromo's Eyes, the Kaguya Clan's Bones and the Hyuuga Clan's Byakugan. Oro is the only guy to possess Kaguya Clan DNA that I'm aware of. The Kaguya Clan (Kimimaro's Clan) is unlikely to predate Kaguya herself so I figure he is a new creation rather than some Ancient Evil.
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If Oro is the Demon then I only expect him to be unmasked near the end of the Series. The success of the previous movie and the reception for the new Gaiden Chapters make me think Naruto will be around for a while yet. Kishi has a lot of loose ends to tie up in the story should he want to continue with it and I get the impression that Kishi is enjoying what he is doing again (after a much needed and well deserved break)… but that's just my impression.
In the Boruto movie trailer, Mitsuki is shown with a strange jutsu. He can expand his arm, the only time we've seen this before was from Kabuto's team from the part 1 Chunnin exam, that other guy with glasses. Another lead to Orochimaru if you ask me.
I think I have to agree with RT here. With the recent plot of the movie, it seems the villains wouldn't be heavily related to Indra and Orochimaru.
The thing is movies are a seperate medium than manga which not only fragments the story but also makes it target of Canon/ Non-Cannon cards (The Last is a prime example).
Since the manga is 100 % cannon, it makes sense o iinclude fodder villains of red herring villains in the movie.
I think after this movie, Kishi will make a part 3 manga focusing on Indra and Orochimaru as the final villains.
I think I have to agree with RT here. With the recent plot of the movie, it seems the villains wouldn't be heavily related to Indra and Orochimaru.
The thing is movies are a seperate medium than manga which not only fragments the story but also makes it target of Canon/ Non-Cannon cards (The Last is a prime example).
Since the manga is 100 % cannon, it makes sense o iinclude fodder villains of red herring villains in the movie.
I think after this movie, Kishi will make a part 3 manga focusing on Indra and Orochimaru as the final villains.
You would be correct if it wasn't for the fact that the last and this upcoming movie are canon. Whether you like it or not, you cannot go against what the creator said and something he was and is involved in. The gaiden is leading up to the current movie, so that in and of itself makes the movie canon.
It's exactly like battle of gods, just because some people are butthurt SSJ2 Vegeta surpassed SSJ3 Goku and such, does not make the movie or revival of freeza, noncanon, as akira was heavily involved in both movies, and now has made a series as a prequel to battle of gods for the first few chapters, then it'll likely explain how goku and vegeta mastered ssjgod and attained ssjgodssj, and then it will focus on the new villains.
It's a new trend that is going on, with continuity through movies and then a new manga is made to further implement them into the plot through the manga storyline to make the plot even longer and better then just an hour and a half movie can do.
I think I have to agree with RT here. With the recent plot of the movie, it seems the villains wouldn't be heavily related to Indra and Orochimaru.
The thing is movies are a seperate medium than manga which not only fragments the story but also makes it target of Canon/ Non-Cannon cards (The Last is a prime example).
Since the manga is 100 % cannon, it makes sense o iinclude fodder villains of red herring villains in the movie.
I think after this movie, Kishi will make a part 3 manga focusing on Indra and Orochimaru as the final villains.
Kishi said he's not making anymore Naruto after the whole Boruto movie plot, and going to make another manga series before reaching his age of retirement.
You guys should take a look at the number of people denying that the Last is cannon. This wouldn't have happened if it was in manga format. People can call a movie non-cannon, but not the manga.
About the New series, it would be nice if it was instead the Boruto series (Well, it's a new series after all) concerning the Demon.
It doesn't matter how many people deny it, it does not change the fact that it is canon. People can be unwilling to accept the facts all they want, but they are just setting themselves up to be soloed and pissed on.
Fact: The last is canon. Battle of Gods and revival of F are canon.
Thanks. This thread has grown way bigger than I ever thought it would and there is still no actual proof - it's still nothing more than a theory but I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've still got some more ideas to develop to boot...
In the Boruto movie trailer, Mitsuki is shown with a strange jutsu. He can expand his arm, the only time we've seen this before was from Kabuto's team from the part 1 Chunnin exam, that other guy with glasses. Another lead to Orochimaru if you ask me.
Nice catch! Sorry for not responding earlier, I’ve been moving house and didn’t have any internet. His name was Misumi Tsurugi and he was part of the Samurai Armour Trio (Kabuto (Helmet) / Yoroi (Armour) / Tsurugi (Sword)). During the Chuunin Exams, Orochimaru pitted several of his underlings against each other without them realizing they were all working for the same Snake. Here is that trailer for anyone who hasn’t seen it:
Around the 29 second mark for Mitsuki
Misumi also has glasses which I think might betray his origins as one of Orochimaru’s genetic experiments. I think there are a couple of other characters who may or may not be the products of one of Orochimaru's labs and they all either have glasses or underwent mysterious eye transplants (Sarada / Karin / Kabuto / Homura etc…)
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Previous Cloning Experiments?
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This isn’t conclusive but it looks promising. Kishi seems to be planting a lot clues suggesting Orochimaru is the real Final Villain. There was a also a related clue in the most recent chapter. It is kinda subtle and I could just be imagining it but it goes back to one of the more obscure pieces of Naruto Lore that has never really been addressed.
Konoha’s Elite
Before I get into Orochimaru’s dastardly secret plans it is worth going over some of Konoha’s history and lore in order to establish what I think the Snake has been up to. I’m going to have to get technical since this gets unnecessarily complicated and hard to unpack but I’ll give it a go. If you don’t like complicated things and / or are afraid of spoilers then find another thread.
Where to begin? Lets start with Konoha’s form of government … Konoha is not a democracy. It is probably best termed as the military and intelligence wing of a Feudal Country. Konoha is structured as a sort of second tier oligarchy ruled by a small number of prominent families who determine the leadership of the village. The first stage of electing the Hokage rests on the nomination of a candidate by the village elders. These figures are very important although we know very little about them (… so far). You will know these figures as the ones who overruled Hiruzen in order to approve the massacre of the Uchiha:
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Konoha is not a country itself though sometimes it acts like one. Rather, it is the military and intelligence center for the Land of Fire (the level above Konoha / the first tier). It provides provides services to the wider country and is accountable to the ruler of the Land of Fire … the Daimyo (Feudal Lord / Great Name). The Fire Lord has a council who advise him but he has the power of veto…
Council
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Veto (never applied but he had first say)
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Once the Fire Lord has granted his approval, the nominee is then put to a vote by the Jonin of the village who have the final say…
Jonin Election
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It is an extremely complicated form of government and one prone to abuse. It is not quite an Aristocracy since various Hokage elected have not belonged to Noble Families. Tobi seemed to suggest that every Hokage elected so far has been related to the Senju but it might be that he simply meant that every Hokage has been controlled by the Senju (hence the arguments over Minato potentially being an heir to Asura rather than Kushina – we’re not sure which parent Naruto owes his Asura heritage too or indeed whether both were… ew).
Senju controlled Hokage or Senju Hokage?
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When this system of governance works it appoints figures like Minato (based on merit) and when it doesn’t it appoints figures like Danzo (who was acting Hokage while Tsunade was unconscious after the Pain Invasion)…
Now we’ve established Konoha’s complicated form of governance lets look at Konoha’s centers of power and their relationships to the Snake. First we have the Senju. As far as we know there are not actually all that many purebred Senju left. Originally there were lots of Senju in the Village before they let other clans join Konoha:
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The Uchiha were all wiped out bar one (two if you now count Sarada). It’s unclear whether there are lots of Senju still out there in the village, whether they interbred with other clans and lost their distinctive identity or whether they have all suffered mysterious accidents (like the other clans that I think Orochimaru wiped out). We know Tsunade is Hashirama’s granddaughter but its unclear whether she belongs to her grandfather’s clan. Tsunade actually uses a mixture of her grandfather and grandmother’s techniques (she’s as much Uzumaki as she is Senju). Her younger brother had one of those mysterious accidents while he was under the command of Orochimaru:
Nawaki
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So the Senju aren’t the force they once were. If there are many Senju left then they don’t seem to be filling the positions of power like they once did.
The next level of clans below the Senju are the Four Noble Clans. It’s unclear what makes certain clans noble and others not so. My gut tells me that any clan with nobility is probably descended from the Ootsutsuki. Through mixing with non Ootsutsuki the royal heritage would have become muddied somewhat but certain clans have KKG that point to their heritage. Of the Four Noble Clans of Konoha at least three have links (direct and indirect) to the Ootsutsuki. The Senju were probably the strongest by virtue of their heritage from Asura. The Senju are referred to as the Senju of the Forest probably because of their inherited abilities from the Shinju – hence why Hashirama was also able to use Mokuton:
Senju of the Forest:
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So Orochimaru has already had run ins with the Senju and he conducted extensive experiments with their DNA as seen in the persons of Yamato (a clone of Hashirama) and Shin (who probably has some Hashirama in him given that Danzo could use Mokuton with his implanted arm):
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But what about these four Noble Clans… who are they and has Orochimaru had any connections with these Aristocratic families?
Well the Four Noble Clans of Konoha are all familiar though it might surprise you who counts as nobility and who doesn’t. The Noble Clans are the Uchiha, the Hyuuga, the Aburame and the Akimichi:
Four Noble Clans
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The Uzumaki aren’t technically Konoha nobility since they belonged to another country – the Land of Whirlpools … Uzushiogakure. The Uzumaki are blood relations to the Senju and it is likely they are the ones from whom Naruto inherited his Asura heritage. Mito (Tsunade’s Uzumaki grandmother) certainly appeared to be a royal at least on a par with the Hyuuga and Kushina was kidnapped because of her special abilities just as Hinata was.
So lets take a look at the Noble families and see what connections they have to the Ootsutsuki and to Orochimaru … assuming of course that there is a method to Orochimaru’s madness.
Hyuuga
The Hyuuga are the bearers of the Byakugan and with them they have inherited the strongest legacy from Kaguya (with the only possible exception being Kimimaro…):
Byakugan Princess Kaguya
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Byakugan Princess Hinata
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A while ago it was revealed that Orochimaru had an ulterior motive for invading Konoha.
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I think his true intention was to obtain blood from Hinata while everybody was distracted by Orochimaru’s diversion. During the Chuunin exams a masked Kabuto treated Hinata when she mysteriously collapsed.
Secret Mission
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Kabuto “treating” Hinata
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That’s one out of four.
Uchiha
The Uchiha are the heirs to Indra and his Sharingan…
Indra’s Sharingan
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This whole Shin mini arc has confirmed what was previously hinted at (make that strongly hinted at)… that Orochimaru obtained at least some of the Sharingan from the Uchiha massacre:
Danzo Uchiha Massacre Mystery
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Orochimaru upgraded Danzo with the Sharingan obtained from the massacre:
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Shin’s Eyes were produced from the same experiments:
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What wonderful eyes…
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Orochimaru seems to have been heavily involved in the Uchiha massacre behind the scenes and despite all his protests that he needed Sasuke’s eyes… he always had a stock of Sharingan that even Tobi was unaware of.
So Uchiha … that’s two for two.
Aburame
We haven’t seen much from the Aburame to suggest that they are descended from the Ootsutsuki. I wouldn’t however rule out that a link might be established in the future. The Aburame might not be as high profile as the Hyuuga or Uchiha but they have a pretty strong pedigree.
According to the expanded universe (filler / databooks), the Aburame were engaged in a feud with another insect focused clan called the Kamizuru Clan. The Kamizuru Clan were effectively royalty from Iwagakure. Three of the four Tsuchikage have belonged to this clan. The Kamizuru Clan were primarily known as Bee users. They attempted to invade Konoha and were repelled by the Aburame Clan. So absolute was the Kamizuru Clan’s defeat that they lost face in Iwagakure and are no longer the force they once were.
So the Aburame Clan are certainly strong enough to potentially be offshoots of the Ootsutsuki Clan even if there is no proof of it… but is there any connection between Orochimaru and the Aburame Clan? The answer to that question is emphatically yes.
One character cropped up during a flashback that I hope we get to see much more of. During Kabuto’s flashback to his childhood we see Danzo meet with Kabuto’s adopted mother. Danzo is accompanied by his right hand man and by another who I hope we get to see more of in the future… this guy… his name is Tatsuma Aburame
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We know next to nothing about Tatsuma but lets face it he was likely on a par with Danzo / Orochimaru within Root which means he was likely very strong. Generally speaking I think Orochimaru was likely secretly in charge of Root – when it came to proposing a Hokage candidate for the position of the Fourth Orochimaru got the nod rather than Danzo… anyway I digress… back to Tatsuma - the mark on his face looks a lot like Orochimaru’s Cursed Seal which spread over Kimimaro’s body before he died from his “illness” while fighting Gaara / Lee:
Tatsuma’s Mark
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Kimimaro’s Cursed Seal Activating
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If Tatsuma were to return then I hope we get to see the Aburame Clan’s ultimate technique in action. In the Anime (filler) it is suggested that the Aburame are capable of wiping out entire cities with their bugs – a sort of WMD technique called the Poison Cloud Technique (Shino stops Edo Torune from using it against the Allied Shinobi Forces in one of the filler).
That’s three for three.
Akimichi
Up until now there wasn’t any connection between Orochimaru and the Akimichi but now there is. You may not have thought it was at all important but when Naruto and the gang faced off against Shin and his clones it was particularly noteworthy that one of Shin’s clones used the trademark technique of the Akimichi Clan.
Akimichi Shin
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If one of Shin’s Clones had the body expansion technique then it is likely only because Orochimaru was targeting members from each of the Noble Families.
What is so important about the Akimichi Clan? Choji has never been all that impressive. He took a long time to awaken his full potential but now he has mastered his Butterfly Technique he is pretty beast. The thing about the Body expansion jutsu is that I think it is something passed down from Hagoromo. The Gedo Mazo is the only other instance of the Body Expansion Jutsu being used (although it is permanently active for the Demonic Statue). The Gedo Mazo is the shell of Hagoromo’s body.
For reasons I’ve outlined in this thread before (and which would take too long to repeat) … I think Hagoromo succumbed to the cursed seal shortly before he died – hence why he had to seal his own body n the moon in order to protect everyone else on the planet. The Gedo Mazo is basically the Akimichi Clan’s technique writ large:
Gedo Mazo
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Mega Choji
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Orochimaru seems to have all of Konoha’s Aces up his sleeve and that’s before you count the Uzumaki Clan (Uzushiogakure Royalty) Kaguya Clan (Kaguya’s Descendants?) and the Hozuki Clans (Kirigakure Royalty).
Another of Shin’s clones also seemed to have more than a little in common with Nagato. Either this shin clone was undernourished or he looks like he might be another Uzumaki experiment (like Karin and Sarada?)…
Nagato Shin
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Nagato
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I wonder whether this is a clue that Orochimaru was behind Nagato’s mysterious upbringing. Nagato had memories of his parents being killed by Konoha ninja but he had no memory of his eyes being transplanted with Madara’s eyes.
Finally some thoughts on the jokes surrounding Orochimaru’s return. First we have Orochimaru lecturing Naruto and Sasuke about upsetting the kids:
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This from the man who kidnapped Sasuke and many, many other children for his experiments...
Grim
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Then there is Chocho’s crush on Mitsuki:
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How funny would it be if her crush turned out to be the same guy who she couldn’t tell whether he was male or female?... :
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We know Orochimaru has been experimenting with genetics. The body that met Naruto and Sasuke was noteworthy for being much younger than they expected. If you were to continue the downward trend in Orochimaru’s age experiments then it is not unreasonable to conclude that Orochimaru might now masquerading inside the body of a child (cough... Mitsukirochimaru).
Younger and younger but never mind your pretty little heads about it:
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Hopefully we won't have to wait forever to see what the master plan of all Orochimaru's experiments truly is. I imagine it has something to do with creating the perfect vessel that will be able to use every KKG ever but it's still too early to say. Kabuto only scratched at the surface, I reckon.
Just some ideas that I wanted to share,I didn't bother adding pictures cause it will take too much time.
1 ------
Sarada in her childhood was not shown wearing glasses. She suddenly became seriously ill and then after being cured she started wearing glasses. Even after awakening Sharingan, she still uses glasses implying that her eyes are imperfect cloned sharingans ?
2------
The Sharingan is a technique embedded in the genes of the Uchiha clan. We know that Shin is not an Uchiha, so the most obvious choice is that the Sharingans were transplanted into him.
What is glaringly suspicious though is how all the clones of Shin not only have the same MS Design but also the same MS technique. If the eyes were transplanted on the Shin Clones then they would all have different MS Designs,
This tells me that Shin has succeeded where Orochimaru never did, Perfectly cloning eyes. Ironically, Shin the Student has surpassed his master Orochimaru. This also explains why Orochimaru wants to reclaim Shin; he wants that knowledge. Naruto and Sasuke are ignorantly fueling Orochimaru's cause.
3------
The Mini Jubbimon is the only one able to cast the dimension shifting technique to access the Six Realms (Shin had to use Mini Juubi to activate warping technique). The only other technique except Rinnesharingan warping and Hagoromo Pure Summoning to be able to do so was Kamui. This along with the spiral warping pattern tells me that it is one of the trio Kamui triple spiral power. Kakashi, Obito and Spiral had the three spiral Kamui's.
Obito was also shown to have dodgy eyes which could not see properly. Could this be a hint that just like Nagato, Obito's Kamui was implanted ? When his body was crushed, I think it was Spiral Zetsu who rescued him, cause let's face it; Madara's statements were too vague (Just like his One sharingan statement).
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RT, you remember posting a theory where you said that the Samehada was the Shinju's fruit. You will notice a difference in the two versions's of the Shinju's fruit.
The actual Shinju Fruit has concentric circles. But the Fruit that Kaguya ate was a spiral fruit. I wonder if the Spiral Fruit was actually one of the Demon's Triple Spiral's eye that Orochimaru put in the Shinju ? Kaguya awakened the spiral Central eye only after she ate the Spiral Fruit Eye, same also happened with Madara when he absorbed spiral Eye God Tree.
If the Spiral Eye's powers got divided between Hagoromo and Hamura, then it makes sense.
Boruto and Himawari are both literal Spirals. When they are joined together, they form a complete Compound Spiral as you said. This would explain why Orochimaru is going after them.
The other two spirals are with Spiral Zetsu/Indra and Sasuke, so Orochimaru could be close to completing the triple spiral.
The Real Shinju Fruit, I think was Samehada. It went to the Seven Swordsmen of the mist and as you hinted they were perhaps nothing less but Guardians of said sword.
This would be a nice twist if it happens though....
5------
When Orochimaru uses his Transmigration ritual, he always leaves behind a white Snake Shell. I watched the anime and Kabuto even commented that the White Snake Shell was proof that the Transmigration ritual was complete.
The same white snake shell also appears when we see Orochimaru at his Parents's grave. Could the Demon have used the prior moment to enter the young boy's body ? Hiruzen appeared a while later, so The Demon had time to spring his trap.
My post on the Nazar was basically my theory on the importance of Blue. As for the rest of your questions I'll update my earlier theories on the Shinju / Samehada next time. There have been a couple of fresh developments in the Boruto Movie and Gaiden which make me think my ideas were onto something.
I can’t say I’m not disappointed. I was hoping we’d get to see more intrigue about the clones and their importantce to the Uchiha Massacre. I was so hopeful that Sarada’s origins might help explain Kabuto’s hidden origins. I guess we may never know where Kabuto came from. At least we got to see him take his place back at the Orphanage with his adopted brother (Urushi the guy with the flat nose).
Urushi finding Kabuto
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Urushi hoping his brother would return during the war (not realizing his brother was on the other side)
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Urushi and his brother
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Who am I?... the guy now dealing with Orochimaru’s mess that’s who.
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Sarada still looks more like Karin than Sarada and that maternity test last week seemed like confirmation. This week’s revelation that the Umbilical Cord that Suigetsu performed the blood test against was simply a keepsake from Karin having delivered Sakura’s baby pushed the boundaries of acceptable misdirection (that's Kishi for you though).
Sarada/Karin
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Suigetsu raids Karin’s desk for the Umbilical Cord
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The Umbilical Cord was Karin’s keepsake and not actually from Karin
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I do still wonder whether there is any connection between Sarada and Shin though. The original Shin has / had transplanted Sharingan while the new generation of Shin all appear to have natural ones. All the Shin Army have the same Sharingan which makes me think they were all grown from/with the same Eye/s. The age of the new batch might suggest that they could have been augmented with blood taken from Sarada’s birth. It’ll be interesting to see whether Sarada has the same Mangekyo as Shin or something different. Sarada having an army of brothers would be funny.
Angry Shin
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Angry Sarada
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Big Shin’s Transplanted Eye/s
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Sasuke always wanted to revive the Uchiha clan but it turns out Orochimaru and his experiments got there first. One and a bit out of two isn’t bad (unless you’re Sasuke’s caring big brother that is)…
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Anyway… I’ve got one more theory on the theme of the Demon. I don’t know whether Kishi is releasing another chapter this week or indeed whether we’ll get to see any more Naruto in Manga form ever again… but I think there are some fresh mysteries that have yet to be dealt with that may or may not tie in with some old ideas. Here’s hoping that Gaiden is the start of something rather than a stopgap before the movies. I still have hopes for the New Era Project developing into something more like a Part 3 conclusion to the series rather than a shameless cashing in on former glories with new filler movies. With so many unanswered questions I think Kishi has a lot of wrapping up left to do… call me an optimist.
.. I still have hopes for the New Era Project developing into something more like a Part 3 conclusion to the series rather than a shameless cashing in on former glories with new filler movies. With so many unanswered questions I think Kishi has a lot of wrapping up left to do… call me an optimist.
"This week’s revelation that the Umbilical Cord that Suigetsu performed the blood test against was simply a keepsake from Karin having delivered Sakura’s baby pushed the boundaries of acceptable misdirection (that's Kishi for you though). "
Exactly my thoughts.
While I am happy Orochimaru stayed alive until the end of the series, it feels weird having Naruto and Sasuke just let Orochimaru have test tube babies in his lab. Didn't Sasuke said he hated Orochimaru for toying with lives? It's all cool now?
The Boruto movie is looking pretty high quality and canonical though. It might actually be a setup for the Boruto manga.
Some new info has come out about the Boruto Movie Villains.
Source :
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Momoshiki
He's a new threat that approaches the Shinobi world. He confronts Sasuke over the secret that's hidden within Ootsutsuki Kaguya's castle. Because he entrusted Kinshiki with battling Sasuke at that time, his true strength and battle jutsu were kept hidden to himself. What is the secret that's hidden within the castle? And what is his goal that he wants to fulfill?
The castle being refereed to could be either the Lava realm or Ice Realm castles. It explains Kaguya's odd behavior and the cave to the castles.
Kaguya is nostalgic as she looks at the temple (Wat Arun).
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Wat Arun Temple dedicated to Hamura.
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Entrance to Wat Arun Temple. That's the entrance of a cave which leads to the temple.
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What's the secret ? Could it be connected to Hamura's spirit ? Perhaps the third seal will reveal itself soon.
The Tenseigan is characterized as a Yellow Lotus (Yellow:Creation, Lotus:Existance) (Yang), and is symbolized as the power of the Ootsutsuki branch of Hamura. Whilst Nourishment (Green) would relate to The Hidden Leaf (Symbolized as green) Hyuuga.
Where Neji is related to Red (Deprivation) in terms of phoenix, and Hinata to Purple (Void) by Chakra color and comparisons to Inanna, and the coincidental twin lions thing.
There are a multitude of clans in Naruto but there are only a handful that stand out amongst the rest. What distinguishes these clans is not obvious. Up until very recently it was not clear what made one clan stronger than another except good fortune in the Darwinian struggles over the generations.
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What changed the landscape of the entire manga were the revelations about the Sage of the Six Paths and his family. We are only just starting to get a sense of the bigger picture and I imagine that there is a lot more to come. From the preliminary pieces of information we can get a sense of how it all fits together. What’s more, I think it fits neatly into the expanding narrative of the Demon…
Heirs to the Demon
In my earlier post I describe the Yin and Yang Inheritance from the Sage of the Six Paths. These are techniques that can be attributed to heritage from one or other of Hagoromo’s sons, Indra or Asura.
Yin and Yang are not for the most part passed down according heritage. If they were then both of the Sage’s sons would have inherited the same Yin and Yang abilities of their father but they didn’t. Instead we find out that one son inherited more of less of all of their father’s Yin powers (Indra) while the other son inherited all of their father’s Yang abilities (Asura).
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This Yin and Yang Inheritance is what I consider distinguishes certain clans from the rest. We know the Uchiha are descended from Indra and the Senju from Asura but that is about the extent of what we know for certain.
Previously I talked about the Nara and Akamichi Clans. I think that the Nara are more likely to be descended from Indra and the Akimichi more likely to be descended from Asura but these are not the only clans that I think might share Royal Blood.
Almost every ninja in the Narutoverse is able to mold chakra because molding chakra is something that can be taught. The first thing that any student in a Ninja Academy undergoes is a test to check their Nature Affinity (Earth, Wind, Water, Fire or Electricity):
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Just because a ninja is born with a predisposition for one of these affinities does not mean that they cannot develop other nature transformation techniques. Through hard work, Jonin are said to be able to master multiple elements while the professor was able to master all five:
Jonin:
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Hiruzen (the “Professor”)
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Even those who have no talent for molding chakra can unlock chakra through alternative means like Might Dai / Guy / Lee
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Eight Gates unlocking chakra
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Others on the other hand are born with innate talent (the Uchiha besides the Sharingan can also all use Enton):
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Almost everyone in Naruto has some kind of superpower but there is a dividing line. Those who are born with abilities that are awoken and those who develop abilities through training. What is the importance of this dividing line? I think that this is what divides those who are more closely related to Kaguya from those who are not.
How can you tell who is a descendant of Kaguya and who is not? I think that there are a number of telling giveaways that Kishi has slipped into the Manga from very early in proceedings.
I think that the most basic test to determine heirs to the Rabbit Goddess is whether or not the Sharingan can copy a technique. The Sharingan is supposed to be able to copy all techniques and is the reason why Kakashi earned his title of the Copy Ninja Kakashi:
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During Naruto’s “advanced training” Kakashi brushes aside Naruto’s question about why he can’t copy KKG and goes out of his way to say that clan techniques like those of the Nara, Akimichi and others are too complicated to easily explain to Naruto than other more straightforward techniques – we’ve never seen Kakashi copy any of these more complicated techniques but we have seen him use the eight gates:
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Kakashi probably evades the question because he doesn’t have an answer but I think we are starting to get a better idea of why certain clans are special while others are not. Maybe Part 3 will address some of the finer details about Yin and Yang techniques:
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The second giveaway is a claim to Royal Blood. The most obvious clan that claims to have Royal Blood are the Hyuuga. It would seem from spoilers from Naruto The Last that the Hyuuga are descended from Hamura. This explains the Byakugan Inheritance passing all the way down from Kaguya to Hinata:
Kaguya
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Hamura
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Hinata
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However there are other clans that claim Nobility. The are at least four Noble Clans in Konoha (databook 1 page 215). Of those confirmed four, two are known to be descended from Kaguya (the Uchiha and Hyuuga) while another bears traits that I think belonged to the Sage (the Akimichi see the earlier post). The Aburame are still something of a mystery – we don’t know what any of their eyes look like and they were heavily involved in Root… :
The Four Noble Clans
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The Uzumaki appear to be some kind of royalty from the Land of Whirlpools. It is not entirely clear how they are related to the Sage but they are known to be distant cousins of the Senju, they wore formal dress akin to the various Lords of the Five Ninja Countries and Jinchuuriki were selected from their number because of their “special chakra”:
Distant cousins to the Senju:
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Formal Dress:
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Special Chakra:
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I think that the “special chakra” is a reference to Kushina’s Chakra Chains that appear to fall into that category of techniques that are awoken rather than taught – based on Karin’s experience:
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These Chakra Chains are said to belong to the Outer Path by Son Gokū:
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… and are deployed by the Gedo Mazo (Hagoromo’s Empty Shell):
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The third giveaway are the names. There are two clans named after the Sage and his Mother. The Hagoromo Clan was one of the clans warring with both the Uchiha and Senju – and so they were presumably pretty strong:
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While the Kaguya Clan inherited the Rabbit Goddess’s Bone Manipulation techniques (Shikotsumyaku) – NB the forehead markings were used in real life during the Heian Period to distinguish the Nobility who referred to themselves as the “maro”:
Kaguya Clan
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Kimimaro Normal / Shikotsumyaku Transformation
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Kaguya Normal / Shikotsumyaku Transformation
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For what it’s worth even Jiraiya seems to have inherited a couple of special techniques including his Lion’s Mane:
Jiraiya
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Kaguya
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Yin and Yang are not exclusively passed down from the Sage of Six Paths. Indeed I think there is a strong case to be made that Yin and Yang techniques can be taught to anyone. However there are certain techniques that cannot be taught or indeed copied. I think that these techniques are important in the grander scheme since they distinguish those descended from / closely related to Kaguya from those who have simply learned to mold chakra. I think that innate techniques help establish who has special lineage and in some cases how (the Yin Yang Inheritance as applied solely to those innate techniques).
I would associate the Uzumaki broadly speaking with the Asura Descendants. They inherited the Life Force and physical attributes of the Sage that fit into the Yang category and they have the chakra chains of the Sage’s empty shell (his body the Gedo Mazo).
Why then do all the Uzumaki Women display Yin Techniques? I’m not entirely certain of the reason for this but I think that it might have something to do with gender. The Uzumaki Yin Chakra Seal has been exclusively used by the women of the Uzumaki Clan and those taught by them. This is not an innate clan ability since it is taught to an outsider (e.g. Sakura):
Yin Chakra Seal Mito
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Yin Chakra Seal Tsunade (granddaughter of Mito / Hashirama) Before & After
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Yin Chakra Seal Sakura (Haruno Clan possible distant Senju / Uzumaki cousin going by the pink hair and clan symbol)
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Some people mistake the Yin Chakra Seal for Slug Sage Mode. As far as I’m aware the Yin Chakra Seal has no connection to the Slugs whatsoever. No user of the Yin Chakra Seal has been shown to take on Slug characteristics in the same way that Frog Sage Mode brings on Toad Eyes and Warts and Dragon Sage Mode brings on Scales and Snake Eyes:
Frog Sage Mode
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Dragon Sage Mode
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The reason why I think the Yin Seal might be gender specific is that Hashirama had what can be read as the complementary Yang Chakra Seal:
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The symbol on Hashirama’s forehead is an ancient symbol for the sun (dating back thousands of years to the Egyptian Sun God’s Eye of Ra symbol) – the Circumpunct:
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Sun gods tend to be male – in the Egyptians case this symbol represented the Eye of Ra. Moon gods on the other hand tend to be female. The god / bodhisattva that I think most ties in with Kaguya is called Kannon in Japan and Guan Yin in China (Yin being a giveaway).
Guan Yin
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Senju Kannon in real life
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Senju Kannon
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I won’t pretend that genealogy is consistently applied in Naruto but for the most part techniques and traits tie characters to each other whether by blood (innate techniques and physical traits) or by association (students wear the same outfits as their masters, adopt the same hair cuts and use the same expressions).
In some respects Kishi has free license to apply whatever rules he wants to in his manga. It is worth noting that a lot of the more nonsensical laws determining who inherits what are reflected in equally nonsensical real world beliefs. Royal Families exist because of the real world belief in Royal Blood (the Divine Right of Kings in Europe, the Mandate of Heaven in China, descent from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu in Japan etc.). Belief in such notions led to generations of Royals being born to worryingly incestuous relationships. The joke about “first cousin, first choice” was all too true of many Royals – take for example Charles II of Spain whose family tree was more of a circle:
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Such inbreeding produced a raft of strange physical and mental health problems. One King of France was convinced he was made of glass and used to throw stones at servants to see if they were too (Charles VI of France – the “Mad King” that GoT probably pays tribute to) while others are renowned for distinguishing physical features (the Hapsburg Nose / Jaw). I digress but the point is that if the Uchiha and Senju were pure clans for 1000 years then they would probably have serious mental and health problems (… wait, crazy eyes and damaged brains … now it all makes sense).
Uchiha Curse:
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Naruto Alchemy and Eugenics
I doubt there are many people out there who understand the difference between alchemy, eugenics and genetics (and I only know a little) but I think that Kishi might be one of them. Kishi builds on certain pop culture tropes that apply to all three fields and has worked them into the fabric of his story. The references he makes are easily overlooked but if you recognise the symbols he uses and how he uses them then I think it helps make more sense of the story to come.
Science was born from a series of beliefs and discoveries that attempted to make sense of the world. Before Science, the world seemed magical and the explanations offered by early thinkers reflected their limited understanding of what was actually going on around them. When discoveries were made they were often wrapped up in mysticism that seems silly now but which at the time were tenets of belief (the world being flat, the Homunculous…).
Alchemy was the forerunner of the major sciences. Chemistry was the principle science born of Alchemy. Alchemy is Arabic / Greek in origin and roughly translates as Black Earth. The name chemistry was simply a shortening of the word Al”chemy” in an effort to distance itself from its superstitious origins. Alchemy is often associated with the attempt to turn base metals into gold but it was much more besides. In practice the alchemists attempted to purify minerals and so be able extract precious metals from what was otherwise dirt. This fixation with purity extended to mankind as the alchemists also pursued the elixir of life in an effort to extend longevity and ultimately achieve immortality.
If it sounds too good to be true then that’s because it was. The alchemists conducted all kinds of amateurish experiments in an effort to build their knowledge. Immortality was and is a forlorn hope but it hasn’t ever stopped some people trying:
Orochimaru:
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There are many examples of doctors who would dig up the graves of the recently deceased (or employ others to do so) in order to obtain subjects for experiments.
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This is essentially what Orochimaru engaged Kabuto to do in order to advance his studies (NB it should be called Body Snatching since Grave Robbing is just the looting of valuables from corpses):
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The caricature of the early alchemists appears to have had a big influence on Kishimoto when designing certain characters. The idea of test tube babies is something that has horrified people for generations. Orochimaru borrows from several of these myths…
Engraving of Goethe’s Faust and Homunculous (NB the body being grown in a test tube – this is the “Homunculous”):
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The Alchemists Workshop 1580 – this used to look very high tech:
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Orochimaru’s Labs growing experimental bodies in chambers
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The search for purity in mankind evolved into the study of Eugenics. Eugenics was the attempt to use selective breeding in order to achieve socially useful ends. Unsuccessful experiments were eliminated and successful ones were promoted in order to speed up the process of Darwinian natural selection or even to harness it in order to breed fatter cattle, faster race horses or more compliant pets (pedigree dogs). Eugenicists did not just stop at dogs however as they moved their experiments onto mankind.
Eugenics was popular throughout the world up until WW2. Criminals were forcibly sterilized as were simple debtors and young girls who fell pregnant too young to look after children. The expectation was that this would improve the health of the nation and thereby make it stronger for such noble pursuits as war. This is essentially what Nazi Germany attempted to achieve when they turned the state into a machine of mass murder. This type of scene from the manga was most likely inspired by the horrifying experiments conducted by actual Nazi doctors:
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Human Experimentation
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At the same time as killing millions of those believed to make Germany weaker (the Jews, gypsies, the infirm … anyone on the wrong side of National Socialism), Nazi Germany also encouraged breeding programmes between it’s soldiers and those identified as being racially pure in conquered territories. Many thousands of children were born of these programmes including one of the members of ABBA (Frida Lyngstad had to spend her childhood in hiding to avoid retribution):
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The goal was to breed a race of supermen (Übermensch) called the Aryan Race. Essentially Nazi Germany saw itself as a polluted state made weak through mixing with others (minorities like the Jews). The Aryans were a fiction dreamt up various Eugenicists. They believed the Aryan Race to be an ancient people superior to all those around them. The Eugenicists believed the Ayrans had migrated from the Far East (Asia) with blond hair and blue eyes rather than Africa (where all mankind can trace its origins to). The symbol used to represent this fantasy of a pure race of Aryans was the Swastika… the same symbol as appears on Neji’s unedited caged bird seal:
Hyuuga Caged Bird Seal Edited (to avoid any association with the Nazi symbol)
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Hyuuga Caged Bird Seal Unedited
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Racial purity was the gold that Eugenicists aspired to and like the Alchemists their goal was a forlorn hope. Repeated studies have shown that when the gene pool is too limited or is segregated from the outside world that all it achieves is to create various physical and mental health problems (just as it did amongst European Royalty). Pedigree dogs, cattle and racehorses are all known to suffer congenital problems that can be far worse for the animals than the benefits they might enjoy from repeated selective breeding.
What has this got to do with Orochimaru? The alchemical quest for the Elixir or Life appears to be the entire goal of Orochimaru’s various experiments over the years. His endless massacre of countless shinobi in order to bring out the fittest and strongest conforms to the harebrained pursuits of the early alchemists. Thousands are pitted against each other in Orochimaru’s dungeons to select the most suitable vessels for their Lord – the winner gets one step closer to serving as the next vessel for Orochimaru:
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Orochimaru callously discards his failed experiments:
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Orochimaru pays special attention to those of noble blood (see above). Orochimaru’s favourite experiments all appear to share some link going back to Kaguya and the Ootsutsuki:
Elite Subjects – Hebi
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Kabuto (NB the Snake growing out of him always appears to be in charge)
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Even during the Fourth Shinbi War, the one who knew everything was not Madara or Black Zetsu… but Orochimaru:
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All throughout the war Kabuto was being controlled by Orochimaru:
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…and before it Orochimaru had been getting Kabuto to keep tabs on his formers cell:
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Orochimaru knew what Tobi and Madara were going to do before they did it:
Tobi
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Madara
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Kimimaro could sense Orochimaru’s influence over the entire Edo army:
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This all fits into Orochimaru’s grand plan to find the elixir of life (immortality) and recreate the universe in his image:
Ultimate Goal (Immortality is just a stepping stone)
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Means to his End (?)
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The symbols that Kishi employs do not just reference ancient cultures (like the Ancient Eqyptian Eye of Ra used as short hand to represent the Sun and Yang) but the prototype periodic tables put together by the early alchemists:
Hashirama’s Yang Seal (?):
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Sakura Haruno’s Clan Symbol:
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Symbols used by the alchemists for the elements and planers (NB Gold and Silver – Sun and Moon):
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Kishi even makes a number of more modern references to Alchemy that are not all that are not all that easy to pick up on. Take the symbol behind Hagoromo… this is the same symbol used to represent the Eye of God in Full Metal Alchemist:
Eye of God
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Hagoromo’s Symbol:
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The Star on Sasuke’s face in Cursed Seal Mode could even be read as the mark of the Humunculous (FMA reference but also a real world alchemical myth about what could be achieved by manipulating the building blocks of life – it’s a little too grim to go into the details of):
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Sasuke has been a pet project of Orochimaru’s:
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In 666 Satan, Satan is not just a demonic force at the root of all evil. He is also a struggling scientist attempting to achieve absolute power at any cost … including the destruction of the universe. Orochimaru’s plot seems to be following the same lines from what I can make out.
Yay Science:
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If we take Kaguya to have been a failed experiment (by no means guaranteed) then I think there is a case to be made that Orochimaru has been spending generations and countless bodies in order to correct the mistakes that ended up with this thing going out of control - you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs … so to speak:
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… what Naruto. Sasuke and the Shinobi army fought was several orders of magnitude smaller (they're not at the sage's level quite yet).
This is just a rough guide to how I view the way Kishi has handled genealogy as a theme within the manga. It is worth stressing that Kishi always show hard work triumphing over natural talent. Naruto despite being the son of a Hokage and a proud lineage of nobility hasn't actually inherited much in the way of techniques…he has always had to learn and practice in order to be able to build on his fathers legacy with things like the Rasenshuriken. Naruto's Ninja way even triumphs over the sword that created everything - Nunoboko … a reference not just to the spear that was said to have been used to create Japan, Amenonuhoko, but a nod to modern Genetics which is where alchemy stands today in understanding the building blocks of life … the sword is made from the Double Helix of DNA.
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I wouldn't worry too much if it doesn't all make sense. The Japanese love pseudo science in all their media. If you've ever wondered why the Databook also tells you the blood types of characters, here's why
Interestingly Inanna is a goddess who is usually flanked by two lions. This might connect Kaguya and Hinata at some point in the future, who is constantly referred to as the Byakugan Princess during the film…
Inanna’s Twin Lions:
With the theories of Royal Blood and connections, Naruto's gloomy Yellow (Creation) from the Tenseigan Light coming togheter with Hinata's Purple (Void) Chakra, the combination of the two forces of Shizen (Creation & Destruction) could be either nothing or something subtle.
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But I'm uncertain where the Green reference comes in, as Hanabi isn't really described with a color theme yet? Other than in The Last, where her dress was Yellow (Creation) with Red Flames from the bottom of the robe (Phoenix?) Maybe an ode to Neji and the Will of Fire, or that she will surpass his level of genius / *Phoenix rising from the ashes*.
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Might Guy's speech about Fall and Spring of youth does relate to Deprivation (Red), decomposing and becoming food for Green (Nourishment). But is unrelated to this whole Ootsutsuki/Hyuuga theory.
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Creds to Sir Trent Reznor, Rabbit Teeth, and the other contributors.
