The biggest Misconception on NB since 2012, itachi cant beat dsm kabuto

[Prince Charles]

@exaar

jirubou sound ability

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The ground smashing this is easily countered by a quick body flicker or leap in mid air nothing too extreme..

kidomarus ability

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I dont see why itachi can't simply use his sussanos arms to break down the web.. he was able to break kimmimarus bones.

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Note his bones are said to be hard as steel itself.

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So i dont see how itachi wont be able to cut down the web

I already explained the flaw with the sound flute, it renders the movement and restrains the victim but itachi was still able to perform mangkeyo sharigan techs, itachi can easily activate amaterasu protecting himself.

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[Nous]

Finally. Now, we see that Itachi Fans actually have some logical members. The only ones I've really seen are Owarij & Shujo. Members and the latter display fanboy-ism as well. I think that Itachi can beat DSM Kabuto but with extremely high-diff and Kabuto has a better chance of winning.

 

[Prince Charles]

When he was caught in the Genjutsu for what ever reason susanoo deactivated, Be it because of a disturbance in the users chakra, Or sasuke/itachi let it down for the hell of it.

Even if this was the case and he could maintain susanoo while under genjutsu it would be a massive waste of chakra (if he was alive). Unless itachi it going to attack himself with susanoo i don't see the use of it while he is under the genjutsu. Kabuto can quite easily set up webs to stop him/susanoo moving after the genjutsu is over. Or stop susanoo of attacking itachi during the genjutsu.

I see no reason why he cant simply just reactivate sussano..? but thats mere speculation so i wont get into that.

It wouldnt be a waste of chakra depending on how much chakra he puts into sussano, he can simply make a impartial sussano rib cage for chakra storage, his full armored sussano isnt necessary.

Kabuto trying to render the movements of sussano with his web is pointless considering itachi can simply deactivat/reactivate at will.

The main purpose of itachi activating sussano while being in the sound genjutsu doesnt serve to be offensive but more on the defensive scale wise.

Itachi can simply put a small and i mean a very small portion of amaterasu on his arm thus releasing him from the sound genjutsu.

 

[AlphaScythian]

His body was restrained so he wasn't in a position where moving or casting techniques (towards Kabuto) were options. The brothers were in close proximity of eachother, so their tactic was feasible. The discussion wasn't about whether he can use techniques, because that much was obvious (he used Tsukuyomi). It was about whether he was able to escape the binding by himself, which he didn't do canonically.
Again, this isn't supported by the manga. Sasuke, and I quote the databook here, defeated Itachi's Tsukuyomi with 'masterful use of the Sharingan'. You are now suggesting, oddly, that despite possessing his brother's eyes (and subsequently, an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan) and chakra dark and powerful enough to elicit memories of Uchiha Madara himself, Sasuke was the only one unable to escape the illusion. This also despite the fact that the manga clearly shows how the brothers went about freeing themselves - entering eachother's illusion and cutting the binding manually. It didn't even have anything to do with level of genjutsu ability, as Sasuke accomplished the same feat as Itachi with just a 'Sharingan Genjutsu'. All they needed to do was enter eachother's minds.

The body was restrained the mind was not. The head wasnt either as he could move it and talk. Kabuto was smart to attack from behind thou.
However to protect oneself they could use susanoo, sasuke could use enton. If in sight they could attack and kill with amaterasu.

The genjutsu itself takes time to morph, seems to be stationary, abit to take effect and in this particular scenario it greatly benefitted from cave.
Kabuto was afraid to fight obito in open area, now we may take a guess.
The jutsu speed isnt comparable to those of doujutsu and kabuto would get easily counter attacked and denied of success.

Simple truth is that both sasuke or itachi could start with amaterasu and susanoo spam and there would be nothing to save kabuto in that cave, but plot made them hold off.

 

[Prince Charles]

His body was restrained so he wasn't in a position where moving or casting techniques (towards Kabuto) were options. The brothers were in close proximity of eachother, so their tactic was feasible. The discussion wasn't about whether he can use techniques, because that much was obvious (he used Tsukuyomi). It was about whether he was able to escape the binding by himself, which he didn't do canonically.

Again, this isn't supported by the manga. Sasuke, and I quote the databook here, defeated Itachi's Tsukuyomi with 'masterful use of the Sharingan'. You are now suggesting, oddly, that despite possessing his brother's eyes (and subsequently, an Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan) and chakra dark and powerful enough to elicit memories of Uchiha Madara himself, Sasuke was the only one unable to escape the illusion. This also despite the fact that the manga clearly shows how the brothers went about freeing themselves - entering eachother's illusion and cutting the binding manually. It didn't even have anything to do with level of genjutsu ability, as Sasuke accomplished the same feat as Itachi with just a 'Sharingan Genjutsu'. All they needed to do was enter eachother's minds.

I just gave a critical situation where itachi can potentially escape the sound genjutsu by putting a small portion of amaterasu on his arm thus the pain releasing him from the sound genjutsu and merely take amaterasu off of him.

Sasuke is entering the mind of itachi sasuke hasnt shown such feats of reverting genjutsu back on the caster unless im mistken?, itachi actually has manga feats that back up that he could had actually dispelled the sound genjutsu himself sasuke on the other hand no feat like that except for breaking itachi's tysukuyomi when they fought with the help of orochimaru resigning within him at the current time.

 

[Exaar]

@exaar

jirubou sound ability

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The ground smashing this is easily countered by a quick body flicker or leap in mid air nothing too extreme..

Jumping into the air, Leaving him open to any sort of counter attack.

kidomarus ability

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I dont see why itachi can't simply use his sussanos arms to break down the web.. he was able to break kimmimarus bones.

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Note his bones are said to be hard as steel itself.

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So i dont see how itachi wont be able to cut down the web

Simply cutting Kimi's bones doesn't mean he could cut the webs.

Sasuke who had knowledge on this tech, He resorted to amaterasu to deal with the webs, Even if he could cut the webs, Susanoo isn't exactly know for being quick at attacking, Multiple webs should quite easily overwhelm susanoo like it did with neji

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[Exaar]

It wouldnt be a waste of chakra depending on how much chakra he puts into sussano, he can simply make a impartial sussano rib cage for chakra storage, his full armored sussano isnt necessary.

Kabuto trying to render the movements of sussano with his web is pointless considering itachi can simply deactivat/reactivate at will.

The main purpose of itachi activating sussano while being in the sound genjutsu doesnt serve to be offensive but more on the defensive scale wise.

Itachi can simply put a small and i mean a very small portion of amaterasu on his arm thus releasing him from the sound genjutsu.

Of course it would be a waste of chakra, Sitting there in a Genjutsu not being able to do anything while having susanoo up is wasting chakra. Itachi is not known for his chakra levels so he cannot afford to simply use susanoo like that.
The more he uses susanoo while in the genjutsu the more the advantage goes to Kabuto.

As for your argument of "setting himself on fire with amaterasu", Even if it was a small flame, What he he going to do after the genjutsu broke?. Not only would Amaterasu consume quite a bit of Itachi's chakra (assuming he is alive). He would need to use more chakra putting the flames out and causing even more strain on his already damaged eyes.

After just one jutsu itachi would be at quite a major disadvantage

 

[AlphaScythian]

Jumping into the air, Leaving him open to any sort of counter attack.
Simply cutting Kimi's bones doesn't mean he could cut the webs.
Sasuke who had knowledge on this tech, He resorted to amaterasu to deal with the webs, Even if he could cut the webs, Susanoo isn't exactly know for being quick at attacking, Multiple webs should quite easily overwhelm susanoo like it did with neji

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Are u really comparing susanoo with spiritual items to neji abilities???? Totsuka will rape those nets and take kabuto along with it. Hence so appearently ovewhelmed by kabuto's power itachi didnt go full susanoo.

 

[OnPoint]

The body was restrained the mind was not. The head wasnt either as he could move it and talk. Kabuto was smart to attack from behind thou.
However to protect oneself they could use susanoo, sasuke could use enton. If in sight they could attack and kill with amaterasu.

Them being able to cast Jutsu was never up for debate.

The genjutsu itself takes time to morph, seems to be stationary, abit to take effect and in this particular scenario it greatly benefitted from cave.
Kabuto was afraid to fight obito in open area, now we may take a guess.
The jutsu speed isnt comparable to those of doujutsu and kabuto would get easily counter attacked and denied of success.

I'm not discussing how this fight would play out. I haven't even declared who I believe the winner to be. I'm discussing obvious flaws with particular tactics. The scenario is that Itachi has already been caught by the illusion. What next?

Simple truth is that both sasuke or itachi could start with amaterasu and susanoo spam and there would be nothing to save kabuto in that cave, but plot made them hold off.

...

I just gave a critical situation where itachi can potentially escape the sound genjutsu by putting a small portion of amaterasu on his arm thus the pain releasing him from the sound genjutsu and merely take amaterasu off of him.

The flames ignite at the point where the caster focuses their eye. If he looks at his arm, the whole thing will be set alight. He will not be able to move his limb into a favourable position because of the Genjutsu. Suggesting he could do so without serious injury implies you believe Amaterasu to be a slow burning technique, because the flames cannot be extinguished instantly.

Sasuke is entering the mind of itachi sasuke hasnt shown such feats of reverting genjutsu back on the caster unless im mistken?, itachi actually has manga feats that back up that he could had actually dispelled the sound genjutsu himself sasuke on the other hand no feat like that except for breaking itachi's tysukuyomi when they fought with the help of orochimaru resigning within him at the current time.

That's why Itachi reversed Kabuto's technique and freed Sasuke? Because, you know, the enemy would've been trapped and both of 'em would've been free.

 

[Prince Charles]

Jumping into the air, Leaving him open to any sort of counter attack.



Simply cutting Kimi's bones doesn't mean he could cut the webs.

Sasuke who had knowledge on this tech, He resorted to amaterasu to deal with the webs, Even if he could cut the webs, Susanoo isn't exactly know for being quick at attacking, Multiple webs should quite easily overwhelm susanoo like it did with neji

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Your argument is flawed.

The fact that itachi went mid air right here thus evading sasukes katon he was prone to sasukes chidori in mid air.

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yet he was able to counter.

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No but him cutting the webs which are hard as steel it doesnt sound too far fetched that he can also cut the web, neji's chakra enhanced fingers were able to cut his web, why cant a sussano arm can? :eww:

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Also theres always the use of totsuka blade.

 

[KidGamer65]

One thing about Itachi's capability to redirect Kabuto's Sound genjutsu.

Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change simply uses the Sharingan's power to decrypt a genjutsu casted on the user and cast that same jutsu on the opponent.

KEKKEI GENKAI; Genjutsu; Magen: Kyou Tenchi Ten (Genjutsu; Demonic Illusion: Universe-Mirroring Reversal)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Supplementary; Close range; Rank: none

Main text

One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. As genjutsu is initially used to confuse the enemy, this technique which sends it right back to its caster deals a high amount of mental damage, more than anything else. Every half-baked genjutsu will fall prey to the mirror that is Sharingan!!

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Since Sharingan can't cast Sound Genjutsu he can't redirect the Genjutsu on Kabuto.

 

[Prince Charles]

Them being able to cast Jutsu was never up for debate.



I'm not discussing how this fight would play out. I haven't even declared who I believe the winner to be. I'm discussing obvious flaws with particular tactics. The scenario is that Itachi has already been caught by the illusion. What next?



...



The flames ignite at the point where the caster focuses their eye. If he looks at his arm, the whole thing will be set alight. He will not be able to move his limb into a favourable position because of the Genjutsu. Suggesting he could do so without serious injury implies you believe Amaterasu to be a slow burning technique, because the flames cannot be extinguished instantly.



That's why Itachi reversed Kabuto's technique and freed Sasuke? Because, you know, the enemy would've been trapped and both of 'em would've been free.

The flames ignite at the point where the caster focuses their eye. If he looks at his arm, the whole thing will be set alight. He will not be able to move his limb into a favourable position because of the Genjutsu. Suggesting he could do so without serious injury implies you believe Amaterasu to be a slow burning technique, because the flames cannot be extinguished instantly.

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Amaterasu was on karin for a considerable amount on time and her injury were mere burn marks on her back. :|

I doubt his arm will get that much damage, also considering amaterasu will also have to burn through his robes too just like they did to karin.

 

[Prince Charles]

One thing about Itachi's capability to redirect Kabuto's Sound genjutsu.

Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change simply uses the Sharingan's power to decrypt a genjutsu casted on the user and cast that same jutsu on the opponent.



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Since Sharingan can't cast Sound Genjutsu he can't redirect the Genjutsu on Kabuto.

i read your whole post, nowhere does it specify the type of genjutsu it can redirect? unless i read it wrong...?

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Ok did you seriously just say Itachi can use a smoke screen for a chance with Totsuka Blade? Are you kidding me. Kabuto has senses like non other. And the fact that you think a clone explosion can hurt Kabuto is just massive trolling. You also forgot that Kabuto has his own shunshin. Not only that, Kabuto's mole jutsu could blitz Tsunade before she could even react. Tsunade could even react to Madara, who is MUCH faster than Itachi. Susanoo slows down Itachi, undebateable fact. You didn't even take in half of Kabuto's arsenal that Itachi cannot counter. Edo Itachi wasn't effected by White Rage because he is an EDO. He doesn't FEEL PAIN. Yeah Itachi gets owned badly.

 

[Overgod]

tl;dr but here are the facts:

- Itachi was Edo so if he wasn't DSM Kabuto would've killed him more than once
- Itachi had help from Sasuke
- DSM Kabuto> Itachi

 

[AlphaScythian]

I'm not discussing how this fight would play out. I haven't even declared who I believe the winner to be. I'm discussing obvious flaws with particular tactics. The scenario is that Itachi has already been caught by the illusion. What next?

Living itachi could use susanoo and the pain from it would dispell genjutsu.
Edo itachi could use susanoo aside and grab himself with arm. Aplying pressure, maybe pain, least probable injecting chakra.

 

[OnPoint]

Amaterasu was on karin for a considerable amount on time and her injury were mere burn marks on her back. :|

I doubt his arm will get that much damage, also considering amaterasu will also have to burn through his robes too just like they did to karin.

How quickly did it burn through the toad's stomach? Was this a feat for Itachi? Was Karin the victim of a concentrated dose of Amaterasu? Or did she merely acquire pre-existing flames?

Amaterasu's burning rate is variable and inconsistent. Although, this would only make Kabuto's job easier, if the flames burn as slowly as you claim.

 

[KidGamer65]

i read your whole post, nowhere does it specify the type of genjutsu it can redirect? unless i read it wrong...?

It uses the Sharingan's power to copy and actually cast the Genjutsu, Sharingan can't use Sound Genjutsu as Sound Genjutsu usually requires another medium besides the Shinobi. (Ma and Pa have to sing, Tauyua/Kabuto need a flute.

So it shouldn't be able to copy and use Sound Genjutsu similar to why Sharingan users can't copy every single jutsu and use them unless they have the chakra nature for those jutsu

 

[Exaar]

Your argument is flawed.

The fact that itachi went mid air right here thus evading sasukes katon he was prone to sasukes chidori in mid air.

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yet he was able to counter.

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So simply because Itachi countered an attack in Mid air once, This makes all similar arugments flawed?.

I simply said it would leave him Open to an attack, If he could counter (depend on what kabuto decided to attack with) it Open for speculation.

No but him cutting the webs which are hard as steel it doesnt sound too far fetched that he can also cut the web, neji's chakra enhanced fingers were able to cut his web, why cant a sussano arm can? :eww:

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Susanoo's arm is a blunt force, It's not exactly made for precise cutting.
In terms of Cutting kidomaru's webs, Nejis precise chakra strikes > Susanoo's Arm.

Neji using chakra to cut them removes the webs from actually touching neji thus prevented the webs from wrapping around his arms/hands. So neji wasn't physically touching the webs in order to cut them.

Also theres always the use of totsuka blade.

With this he could most likely cut the webs without to much trouble, But i can bring in the question on how fast can Susanoo swing that sword around. Could it swing fast enough to cut a volly of webs like neji failed to do.

 

[Prince Charles]

Ok did you seriously just say Itachi can use a smoke screen for a chance with Totsuka Blade? Are you kidding me. Kabuto has senses like non other. And the fact that you think a clone explosion can hurt Kabuto is just massive trolling. You also forgot that Kabuto has his own shunshin. Not only that, Kabuto's mole jutsu could blitz Tsunade before she could even react. Tsunade could even react to Madara, who is MUCH faster than Itachi. Susanoo slows down Itachi, undebateable fact. You didn't even take in half of Kabuto's arsenal that Itachi cannot counter. Edo Itachi wasn't effected by White Rage because he is an EDO. He doesn't FEEL PAIN. Yeah Itachi gets owned badly.

Itachi can use the smoke screen from his clone explosive technique as a advantage to somewhat cloud his current whereabouts thus making it a potentially availability for him to body flicker over to kabuto with a totsuka blade to the back.

You praise kabutos sensing abilities but he fell for a feint crow clone from itachi and itachi body flickered to kabuto cutting off his horn.

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Show me scans of tsunade reacting to madara?

You say edo tensei wasnt effected by white rage but it seems to me he was when he put his hands over his ears.

itachis reaction time> tsunades reaction

I already showed scans of how itachi evades the majority of kabutos arsenal, i also showed how he reacted in time to kabutos muki tensei technique.