Not entirely sure, but it's shown that one has to possess a very high level of genjutsu in order to disrupt it. Sound Genjutsu on its own is very potent, but logical powerscaling should dictate that Tayuya wouldn't be able to subdue many elite shinobi seen in Part 2. War Arc Sakura when she's not diverting any of her chakra towards her seal is a good guess and that's mainly due to her proficiency in Genjutsu and Yin Release.
Sound genjutsu isn't more potent than other types of genjutsu.
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due to the fact the user can stay cloaked and ambush them with it.
Jiraiya said base Naruto could train himself to counter genjutsu even though he himself is bad at genjutsu so you don't need to be nearly as skilled as the genjutsu user to counter it.
Kishimoto has shown characters to talk with their mouth closed:
But onto the real point. Shikamaru didn't bite his tongue, Itachi didn't bite his tongue, Nagato didn't bite his tongue. If they could, they would've.
Kishimoto needs to show dialogue. He can't just leave his characters docile when in Sound Genjutsu. He needs to show verbal interaction, even when it doesn't make sense, as seen with the closed mouth dialogue.
Path's bodies are dead so they wouldnt feel pain and wouldnt be able to break the genjustu that way.
Shikamaru hadnt said anything because he was pretending to still be caught but he had already broken his finger with his justu. He was waiting for Tayuya to get closer.
Sasuke and Itachi could move their eyes to break the genjustu using genjustu on each other.
I agree that biting the tounge wouldnt release the justu, I dont think anyone could possibly cause enough pain except Kisame who was able to bite his tounge off. Thats probably the only person who can do it.
Base Tayuya has much superior physical stats compared to anyone here when considering her natural stat boost from the mind awakening pill and she can be expected to have basic intel on every single clan in the Leaf due to Oro.
She summons her Dokis then assaults them giving no time for traps killing Ino first then Hinata who will probably try to use Gentle fist on a Doki then get taken out due to lack of speed feats and intel.
Sakura has shown quick thinking and great use of Substitution and can use it to escape the chaos and formulate a plan to deal with Tayuya controlling the Doki meanwhile Tenten who is held in very high standards in the Databook in terms of Taijutsu and Speed would be capable of evading the Dokis much better than Shikamru or anyone here physically while Explosive Kunai can easily slow them down allowing Tenten to escape and also hide in the forest close by.
-By this time Sakura would've likely located Tayuya from the sound to which she would employ some form of surprise tactic via subs and/or clones which would force Tayuya to deal with Sakura physically which she would easily do meanwhile Tenten could save Sakura last minute with weapon spam forcing a tactical retreat from Tayuya.
Sakura suffering injuries from Tayuya would slow down the team and hinder them meanwhile Tayuya pissed from tenten's attack instantly activates her CM1 shunshins their direction and employs her Genjutsu , likely catching them both depending on how fast Tenten can escape with sakura and the distance they travel before Tayuya employs Genjutsu which imo would catch them following my context here , but assuming Tenten can at least open the 1st Gate i'd say she could likely carry sakura and get to a safe distance away which would pretty much hinder them even more due to her not being able to handle it so Tayuya eventually wins without a doubt.
-Thats just how i see it playing out in anime , Med diff the Dialog between everyone here would be interesting and would play a big role which is why i see her killing Ino first for sure and intel is also vital..
Sound genjutsu isn't more potent than other types of genjutsu.
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due to the fact the user can stay cloaked and ambush them with it.
Jiraiya said base Naruto could train himself to counter genjutsu even though he himself is bad at genjutsu so you don't need to be nearly as skilled as the genjutsu user to counter it.
Path's bodies are dead so they wouldnt feel pain and wouldnt be able to break the genjustu that way.
Shikamaru hadnt said anything because he was pretending to still be caught but he had already broken his finger with his justu. He was waiting for Tayuya to get closer.
Sasuke and Itachi could move their eyes to break the genjustu using genjustu on each other.
I agree that biting the tounge wouldnt release the justu, I dont think anyone could possibly cause enough pain except Kisame who was able to bite his tounge off. Thats probably the only person who can do it.
Wrong Pain does feel Pain. Funny how that works, but it's been shown in the manga many times so no, that's not a valid rebuttal.
Here, Deva felt the blow back of his own Shinra Tensei. "Ugh.. He turned it back on me." The face tremble - face expression transiton shows this clearly:
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Here is clearly shows the paths show pain:
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"AH-GHGH." A cry of pain. So with that yes, the paths do feel pain, so yes biting their tongue would've been a viable counter, if they could have. But they couldn't.
& here's the VIZ scan showing the path groaning in pain, as it died. You don't just go Ugh.. Nnh.. If you don't feel anything :lol
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You've got it wrong in regards to Shikamaru. Shikamaru being caught in the technique couldn't say anything regardless while in the technique. Ask yourself, why he broke his finger rather than biting his tongue? Why expend more chakra when he previously said he needed to stop holding back, and go all out? Obviously to do this, he would need every bit of his chakra! He was forced to expunge more due to not being able to bite his tongue, due to the restriction of movement Tayuya's Sound Genjutsu prevents.
Here he preaches that he needs to go all out:
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Like I said previously, to go all out, he would need every bit of chakra, expending more than needed (if biting his tongue was possible he would've done it. Shikamaru is one of the smartest characters in the damn manga, don't downplay his counters) was definitely not something he planned to do. If breaking Tayuya's Sound Genjutsu was capable orally he would've. Fact.
Instead of using Kagemane he could've bit his tongue then screamed. Either would've been sufficient (but too bad her Sound Genjutsu restricts that possibility). So there's that counter.
In regards to Sasuke & Itachi vs Kabuto. I've already shown Kishimoto has drawn characters with their mouths closed talking. This is no different :lol Hold on, what really is the epitome of showing that Kishimoto simply forces character dialogue even when x or y (characters) aren't supposed to be talking/show no sign of oral movement is this:
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"You're inside a Genjutsu paralysis that binds your physche." Bruhhh if you don't know what physche means here:
psy·che
ˈsīkē/
noun
the human soul, mind, or spirit.
Each hemisphere controls the opposite side of the body. If a brain tumor is located on the right side of the brain, your left arm or leg may be weak or paralyzed. Not all functions of the hemispheres are shared. In general, the left hemisphere controls speech, comprehension, arithmetic, and writing.
The left controls speech ei; TALKING. The paths while in this Genjutsu shouldn't even be able to talk, but due to Kishi having to force dialogue to show what's happening with the paths it only makes sense.
I agree, that you agree biting the tongue wouldn't release Genjutsu, no matter how deep the gnash/pain. But they haven't canonically shown to move their mouths orally/perform oral self-inflict (because they can't), so that's out of the question.
Kishimoto has shown characters to talk with their mouth closed:
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But onto the real point. Shikamaru didn't bite his tongue, Itachi didn't bite his tongue, Nagato didn't bite his tongue. If they could, they would've.
Kishimoto needs to show dialogue. He can't just leave his characters docile when in Sound Genjutsu. He needs to show verbal interaction, even when it doesn't make sense, as seen with the closed mouth dialogue.
^ Kishimoto showing that he uses dialogue even when characters aren't making facial expressions. Forms the basis that even if you're canonically unable to talk/physically shouldn't you can :lol
Base Tayuya has much superior physical stats compared to anyone here when considering her natural stat boost from the mind awakening pill and she can be expected to have basic intel on every single clan in the Leaf due to Oro. She summons her Dokis then assault them giving no time for traps killing Ino first then Hinata who will probably try to use Gentle fist on a Doki then get taken out. Sakura has shown quick thinking and great use of Substitution and can use it to escape , hide and formulate a plan to deal with Tayuya controlling the Doki meanwhile Tenten who is held in very high standards in the Databook in terms of Taijutsu and Speed would be capable of evading the Dokis much better than Shikamru or anyone here physically while Explosive Kunai can easily slow them down allowing Tenten to escape and also hide in the forest.
-By this time Sakura would've likely located Tayuya from the sound to which she would employ some form of surprise tactic via subs and/or clones which would force Tayuya to deal with Sakura physically which she would easily do meanwhile Tenten could likely save Sakura last minute with weapon spam with sakura suffering injuries which would slow them down and hinder them meanwhile Tayuya simply says fck it and activates her Genjutsu + CM1 catching them both inside her Genjutsu.
Turn up Neo! But none of that's even needed for these simpletons. A bloodlusted Tayuya? Like bruhh, CM -> Sound Genjutsu -> Good f*cking GAME. :lol
No need to use her other techniques, simply put because Sound Genjutsu solos. Oh, and let's not forget Tayuya is Shikamaru level intelligence (slightly below) :lol She was truly the baddest/strongest female ninja. And she still is worthy of that because even Kabuto used her DNA :lol
Just goes to show how the unique Pt.1 ninja weren't meant to be slept on. Sound Five represent.
Turn up Neo! But none of that's even needed for these simpletons. A bloodlusted Tayuya? Like bruhh, CM -> Sound Genjutsu -> Good f*cking GAME. :lol
No need to use her other techniques, simply put because Sound Genjutsu solos. Oh, and let's not forget Tayuya is Shikamaru level intelligence (slightly below) :lol She was truly the baddest/strongest female ninja. And she still is worthy of that because even Kabuto used her DNA :lol
Just goes to show how the unique Pt.1 ninja weren't meant to be slept on. Sound Five represent.
LOL thats just how i see it playing out in anime and in character but yea CM>Gen/GG but i dont see Tauya popping that out before she goes Doki on them.
-LMAO Tayuya isn't close to Shika in intelligence tho and it isn't supported by the DB but she is literally the best female character imo and her design + CM2 is just too boss , i really wished she had lived and got to advance her looks and powers. Dame it would've been neat if she blocked Temari's attack with a Doki and played dead only badly injured just imagine her in Gaiden of even getting paired with someone.
She could've payed her last respect to Kimimaro after seeing his dead body atop his bone forest and she could've been the only one to survive from the Team which would've been epic , strog females like her and konan should not have died the way they did..
LOL thats just how i see it playing out in anime and in character but yea CM>Gen/GG but i dont see Tauya popping that out before she goes Doki on them.
-LMAO Tayuya isn't close to Shika in intelligence tho and it isn't supported by the DB but she is literally the best female character imo and her design + CM2 is just too boss , i really wished she had lived and got to advance her looks and powers. Dame it would've been neat if she blocked Temari's attack with a Doki and played dead only badly injured just imagine her in Gaiden of even getting paired with someone.
She could've payed her last respect to Kimimaro after seeing his dead body atop his bone forest and she could've been the only one to survive from the Team which would've been epic , strog females like her and konan should not have died the way they did..
:lol What? Do you not realize their entire battle was a play on simple intelligence? It was on huge chess again as Shikamaru noted. Tayuya even gave props to Shikamaru, because she was usually the smartest ninja on the battlefield in all her encounters :lol. Don't even try to downplay her intelligence.
Shikamaru struggled in this mindgame vigorously, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that. She is definetely on Shikamaru's intelligence level, but like I said previously slightly below him. They would be in the same tier of intelligence, Shikamaru being the highest, and Tayuya being within the lower region.
Yeah he outsmarted her twice (not counting that bullshit he pulled with Naruto, so Naruto could escape :lol Tayuya was about to murk them both), but giving props where there due is something you can't overlook from Shikamaru:
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If we were to rather their intelligence in comparison to each other, Shikamaru would be a 10/10, and Tayuya would be an 8.
Hell nah. I wouldn't pay my respect to some nigguh who said some f*ck shit like this to me:
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I'm goooood lmaoo.
I like how Orochimaru called Sakon/Ukon the strongest, but then was all like: "wait nvm, Tayuya is just as strong, if not stronger" :lol.
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vain
adjective
1.
having or showing an excessively high opinion of one's appearance, abilities, or worth.
Tayuya is probably Sakon's equal given how Orochimaru admitted that Tayuya's no less confident in her own abilities.
I disagree with Kidoumaru being superior to Sakon/Ukon, but Kidoumaru's fighting style greatly benefited from being a long distance fighter which substantially improved his performance against Neji. I believe in a general sense, Sakon/Ukon would still be strongest given that's what the authorial intent dictates. Just going by feats in itself is a horrible way of looking at things as feats are generally more subjective and open to interpretation while statements such as these only requires an analysis of the context and just a basic understanding of the author's statement.
Base Tayuya has much superior physical stats compared to anyone here when considering her natural stat boost from the mind awakening pill and she can be expected to have basic intel on every single clan in the Leaf due to Oro.
She summons her Dokis then assaults them giving no time for traps killing Ino first then Hinata who will probably try to use Gentle fist on a Doki then get taken out due to lack of speed featsand intel.
Team 8 is 1km away from the sand siblings and the rain guys.
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Kiba decides they should go check it out and we see:
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They basically get there while the mouth off was still going on seeing as the rain guy says "challenging us head on like this".
I think it's a pretty decent speed feat for Hinata.
Doesn't change the outcome of this match up though. Tayuya pretty much low diffs them imo.
:lol What? Do you not realize their entire battle was a play on simple intelligence? It was on huge chess again as Shikamaru noted. Tayuya even gave props to Shikamaru, because she was usually the smartest ninja on the battlefield in all her encounters :lol. Don't even try to downplay her intelligence.
Shikamaru struggled in this mindgame vigorously, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about that. She is definetely on Shikamaru's intelligence level, but like I said previously slightly below him. They would be in the same tier of intelligence, Shikamaru being the highest, and Tayuya being within the lower region.
Yeah he outsmarted her twice (not counting that bullshit he pulled with Naruto, so Naruto could escape :lol Tayuya was about to murk them both), but giving props where there due is something you can't overlook from Shikamaru:
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If we were to rather their intelligence in comparison to each other, Shikamaru would be a 10/10, and Tayuya would be an 8.
Come on proof , that isn't enough to put her on Shika level when she has the abilities to perfectly compliment her tactics , she's smart but u cant put her in the same tier as Shika-stein who literally has a 5 in the DB and IQ>>200 to support it , if wat ur saying was true then Kishi would've given her a 4 or even a 4.5 if he thought she was even close to the same tier as Shika-stein.. Come on proof i agree with everything else but come on bro lol.
If it was a chess match then Shika-stein had her on check-mate multiple times where she had to use her CM or other powers to cheat the came LOL..
LMao i actually took that into account , when i said payed respect i meant give somekind of cheeky dialog while seeing his dead body in the sky since she knew he had HIV LOL , just imagine it bro it would've fit in the story perfectly imo and a P2 Tayuya would've been too epic bro just imagine her joining the leaf or some shit..
-Sucks that her and Kido's abilities ended at SRA would've been nice to learn about their clans because i want to kno more about them.
Lmao proof , he basically said Tayuya hypes her own abilities just as much as Sakon/ukon which doesn't mean she's just as strong only just as confident and with her abilities and persona it makes sense that she would overestimate herself lol.
I'd easily put Kidomaru>> Tayuya in a fight because he can hard counter her Genjutsu by plugging up his ear holes with fluid and her Dokis are a non factor and i cant agree with kido>sakon when Kishi basically says "NO" even tho by feats Kido can beat him seeing that Sakon is basically a CQC fighter on a lower scale than Kimaro and Neji.
Considering how Tayuya Got stopped by Shikamaru's tangible binding (one which can actually be dodged) I believe Ino's instant mental assaults would stop her in her tracks. Even more so if they have intel on her and wear ear plugs. All Ino has to do is paralize her and the rest will get to her.
What even is the point of a thread when a character one shots the other team through fixed conditions? There isn't even anything to debate here. Tayuya wins obviously.
Team 8 is 1km away from the sand siblings and the rain guys.
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Kiba decides they should go check it out and we see:
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They basically get there while the mouth off was still going on seeing as the rain guy says "challenging us head on like this".
I think it's a pretty decent speed feat for Hinata.
This is Tayuya's Genjutsu, simply modified. It does the exact same thing, saying it doesn't is utter, and nonsensical bullshit. You claim Sakura can break Tayuya's Sound Genjutsu with ease, but that isn't possible because there isn't any outside chakra to help her do so. And her own chakra will not work, as I previously stated with the Sasuke and Itachi case.
I can't believe you just denied DSM Kabuto used Tayuya's Sound Genjutsu, when he incorporated their DNA to do that exact thing. :lol Don't be ignorant.
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Bruh even says: Tayuya - Mateki, Mugen Onsa! Symbolizing that Tayuya did in fact perform the technique.
Sakura genjutsu resistance outside of visual is superior to the uchiha , let's not , her chakra control deflects its. In ever instant Sakura was generally not even effect by genjutsu, except the sasuke one
Doki have no chakra network so of course gentle fist would be useless.
OT: Tayuya wins mid difficulty. CS2 Tayuya easily breaks Ino's mind transfer. Sakura, Ino and Tenten are far inferior to Tayuya in CQC anyway. Hinata's CQC is a problem but then sound genjutsu would stop them all in their tracks. Part 1 Sakura is the best out of the four in breaking genjutsu but even she needs to make a hand seal at this point to kai out which is simply not possible when she's completely paralyzed.
