stupid kages

[WalksInShadows]

He would be under their control...

Yes because Edos can't be bound by the caster. :|

Tobirama would control him

do you guys need to be reminded Madara was able to break himself from the caster's control?

You got a limited perception of things. Tobirama is free to bring Madara at any level of power he wants.

pray tell, where has that been stated?

Also, the only reason Madara escaped Kabuto's control is because he was caught in Izanami. There is no way Madara could release the contract with four Hokages around him.

*buzzer* wrong. Madara broke himself from the contract because he knew the necessary handseals. He chose that moment to do it because his soul was being sent back into the Pure World. His ability to break free had jack to do with Kabuto being put under Izanami. Once again, it was just a Hokage doing what they do best...being foolish.

 

[Wave.]

do you guys need to be reminded Madara was able to break himself from the caster's control

Kabuto granted Madara free will so no Madara never broke free from Kabuto's control since there wasn't any to begin with.

 

[ultraChalk]

1.) Kabuto granted Madara free will and never attempted to stop Madara.
2.) Kabuto's body isn't made out of Hashirama's cells which strengthen the control the caster has over the Edo.
3.) Madara was revived beyond his prime.

Not like they can not revive him from his prime anyway. His prime was Madara+Hashirama cells. Tobirama can't revive Madara and just pick out the Hashirama cells.

And Itachi was bound by Kabuto the whole time but still broke free. If Itachi can do it, Madara can.

 

[Wave.]

Not like they can not revive him from his prime anyway. His prime was Madara+Hashirama cells. Tobirama can't revive Madara and just pick out the Hashirama cells.

And Itachi was bound by Kabuto the whole time but still broke free. If Itachi can do it, Madara can.

I'm saying, Tobirama doesn't have to revive Madara at his prime or beyond that. He can revive him at like 5% of his power or something. Orochimaru was able to summon Hashirama and Tobirama at a very weak state when he fought Hiruzen. Tobirama could probably do the same to Madara, and summon him at a weak state so he can control him.

Kotoamatsukami broke Itachi free. Madara doesn't have KA so he can't.

 

[Orochimagus]

Itachi did not break free. It was an extremely circumstantial outside source that Madara does not have access to.

And what do you mean you cannot slow down? Orochimaru was able to hold Tobirama down most of the way but he still trembled from resistance. Kabuto was able to slow down Hanzo. It makes sense that any form of resistance can slow down moves.

Fact is Madara didn't just break from Kabuto's control at any other moment but the time he was caught in Izanami because HE COULD NOT DO IT BEFORE THAT.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Kabuto granted Madara free will so no Madara never broke free from Kabuto's control since there wasn't any to begin with.

and when, pray tell, did anything even remotely suggest that Kabuto was ever capable of controlling Madara 100%?

I'm saying, Tobirama doesn't have to revive Madara at his prime or beyond that. He can revive him at like 5% of his power or something. Orochimaru was able to summon Hashirama and Tobirama at a very weak state when he fought Hiruzen. Tobirama could probably do the same to Madara, and summon him at a weak state so he can control him.

Kotoamatsukami broke Itachi free. Madara doesn't have KA so he can't.

how do you know that, since it was made pretty evident that Oro was able to do that because he had developed ET further than Tobirama did using those tags? Hanzo was pretty much Exhibit A as to someone not needing KA to break free.

Fact is Madara didn't just break from Kabuto's control at any other moment but the time he was caught in Izanami because HE COULD NOT DO IT BEFORE THAT.

dude, Madara didn't do it at any other moment because there was absolutely no need to. His soul was slipping back into the Pure World, which was why he decided to use then. Madara explicitly when on to state as he broke himself that someone could do so by performing the handseals. His ability to do so had absolutely nothing at all to do with Kabuto being under Izamami.

 

[Mr Hiru]

dude, Madara didn't do it at any other moment because there was absolutely no need to. His soul was slipping back into the Pure World, which was why he decided to use then. Madara explicitly when on to state as he broke himself that someone could do so by performing the handseals. His ability to do so had absolutely nothing at all to do with Kabuto being under Izamami.

It have quite the relationship, actually. Kabuto had control over all the edo tensei before fighting Itachi and Sasuke, and he only gave freedom to the personalities of the characters. But Itachi got the intel after using Izanami in Kabuto, giving Itachi the handseals to revert Edo Tensei and in consequence, letting all souls go to the Pure World.

So, the motive of why Madara's soul was able to slip back to the Pure World wasn't just coincidence, it was Kabuto being under Izanami so he could free the Edo Tensei jutsu.

JUST AFTER THIS, he could break free from the technique, retaining his Edo form in the battlefield.

 

[Wave.]

and when, pray tell, did anything even remotely suggest that Kabuto was ever capable of controlling Madara 100%?

When did I say Kabuto was capable of doing that? I claimed that Tobirama with the aid of Hashirama's cells should be able to control a weakened Madara...You posted something about how a Madara who has been revived beyond his prime was capable of breaking out of Edo Tensei without anyone really trying to stop him.

how do you know that, since it was made pretty evident that Oro was able to do that because he had developed ET further than Tobirama did using those tags? Hanzo was pretty much Exhibit A as to someone not needing KA to break free.

Key word: Probably

And it was mentioned several times that Tobirama never completed Edo Tensei, so reviving shinobi's at weak states instead of their full power might be one of the imperfections of his Edo Tensei.

Kabuto doesn't have Hashirama cells, Kabuto was controlling a shit ton of Edo Tensei's all of which are at their prime. Obviously if Madara is revived at his prime, he would break out of Tobirama's control with ease. I'm arguing something else.

 

[WalksInShadows]

It have quite the relationship, actually. Kabuto had control over all the edo tensei before fighting Itachi and Sasuke, and he only gave freedom to the personalities of the characters. But Itachi got the intel after using Izanami in Kabuto, giving Itachi the handseals to revert Edo Tensei and in consequence, letting all souls go to the Pure World.

So, the motive of why Madara's soul was able to slip back to the Pure World wasn't just coincidence, it was Kabuto being under Izanami so he could free the Edo Tensei jutsu.

JUST AFTER THIS, he could break free from the technique, retaining his Edo form in the battlefield.

No, just....no. Madara had put it out there for all to know he was perfectly capable of doing it any point, and the only thing stopping him was his aversion to wantonly using forbidden jutsu.

When did I say Kabuto was capable of doing that? I claimed that Tobirama with the aid of Hashirama's cells should be able to control a weakened Madara...You posted something about how a Madara who has been revived beyond his prime was capable of breaking out of Edo Tensei without anyone really trying to stop him.

Key word: Probably

the middle left panel alone completely destroys any and all notion that Madara would ever be under the control of anyone using that jutsu, whether it be Kabuto or Tobirama:

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[Orochimagus]

Working on assumptions. If Kabuto said he was giving Madara free will that is all we have to go for from the manga/Kishimoto. Nothing ever stated that Kabuto had no control over Madara but something stated he did.

Madara obviously didn't like Kabuto and count have just destroyed the Tsuchikage and broken from the contract then and there but he did not because "you've certainly prepared well".

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Right here Madara realizes Kabuto is out of commission so he's free to release the contract.

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And to drive the point even further, Madara stated that the body is only uncontrolled AFTER the summoning contract is undone. This means Kabuto had control of his beody before that.

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I would really like to see some manga evidence that Kabuto had no control over Madara.

 

[Mr Hiru]

No, just....no. Madara had put it out there for all to know he was perfectly capable of doing it any point, and the only thing stopping him was his aversion to wantonly using forbidden jutsu.

Sorry, but it seems like Orochimagus gave all the reference needed to disprove your point of Madara being able to escape in any moment.

 

[sLm]

Maybe they would revive him old, unlike Kabuto xD.

 

[SkyGodHorus]

hey lets revive madara who can kill us with no diff so he can explain whats going on

Technically, Edo Madara was defeated and bound by Hashirama. It was Obito's Rinne Tensei that saved him from that.

BRAVOKISHI
R
A
V
O

Lol go fap some more to One Piece, tool.

 

[WalksInShadows]

Working on assumptions. If Kabuto said he was giving Madara free will that is all we have to go for from the manga/Kishimoto. Nothing ever stated that Kabuto had no control over Madara but something stated he did.

he didn't make any attempts to strip Madara of his faculties because he wanted to see his fighting abilities. Simple as that.

Madara obviously didn't like Kabuto and count have just destroyed the Tsuchikage and broken from the contract then and there but he did not because "you've certainly prepared well".

yeah, except Madara had already expressed his aversion to wantonly using forbidden jutsu. With all of that digging you did, you either conveniently chose to ignore that or didn't care to remember. That comment was made in regards to him seeing that Hashirama face on his chest, nothing more.

Right here Madara realizes Kabuto is out of commission so he's free to release the contract.

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no, that's him realizing that the summoner released the jutsu *facepalm*

And to drive the point even further, Madara stated that the body is only uncontrolled AFTER the summoning contract is undone. This means Kabuto had control of his beody before that.

*buzzer* wrong. The state is actually as follows: "There is one risk to this jutsu. That is, as long as you know the seal you can release Edo Tensei's summoning contract itself. There's nothing more troublesome than that: an undying body...unlimited chakra...it cannot be controlled."

That wasn't Madara saying Kabuto had control of his body before that, it was him explaining to the Gokage exactly the kind of situation one were to find themselves in when they were up against someone who could break it.

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I would really like to see some manga evidence that Kabuto had no control over Madara.

- The part in the aforementioned quote where Madara says "as long as you know the seal you can release Edo Tensei's summoning contract itself."

-

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.

- Not to mention the biggest nugget of them all:

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There's your manga evidence chief.

 

[Orochimagus]

Madara said he would not LET himself bound by the Jutsu, not that he could resist control. He was not bound once he released the contract after he got the opening.

The order of words is key: "They can break the covenant themselves...'' THEN "An immortal body...Limitless chakra...And a body that can move around uncontrolled."

This means you need to release the contract FIRST in order to have the body that can move around uncontrolled. This means you need an OPENING in order to release yourself from the contract since your body is under control.

We only have manga evidence of Hashirama being able to move around as he pleases and he is stronger than Madara. There is not a single manga panel that states Madara was immune to Edo control. I could remind you just how much control Kabuto had...

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[WalksInShadows]

Sorry, but it seems like Orochimagus gave all the reference needed to disprove your point of Madara being able to escape in any moment.

selective narratives =/= proof.

Madara said he would not LET himself bound by the Jutsu, not that he could resist control. He was not bound once he released the contract after he got the opening.

The order of words is key: "They can break the covenant themselves...'' THEN "An immortal body...Limitless chakra...And a body that can move around uncontrolled."

This means you need to release the contract FIRST in order to have the body that can move around uncontrolled. This means you need an OPENING in order to release yourself from the contract since your body is under control.

We only have manga evidence of Hashirama being able to move around as he pleases and he is stronger than Madara. There is not a single manga panel that states Madara was immune to Edo control. I could remind you just how much control Kabuto had...

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now you're just reaching for anything to use as proof, even when there is nothing that says Kabuto could control him and more that says otherwise. The only thing you supplied was a screenshot of when the former Akatsuki guys were shown before they were activated. That was about as much control Kabuto ever had over Madara. There's no point in even continuing this back and forth as far as i'm concerned if all you're going to do is reach when i already showed you what anyone needed to know.

 

[SasukexNeji]

Did you guys read the same manga? the sage just spawned from whatever the hell hashirama was doing to madara. Hardly a stupid move. Clearly something good is about to happen since the sage has revealed himself to the kages.

Hashirama was about to sacrifice himself, but Hagaromo, showed up and basically said, "There's another way..." Does God and Moses/Issac from the Bible ring a bell in that scene?

 

[Mr Hiru]

now you're just reaching for anything to use as proof, even when there is nothing that says Kabuto could control him and more that says otherwise. The only thing you supplied was a screenshot of when the former Akatsuki guys were shown before they were activated. That was about as much control Kabuto ever had over Madara. There's no point in even continuing this back and forth as far as i'm concerned if all you're going to do is reach when i already showed you what anyone needed to know.

To me, the only one that is purposely negating the evidence here is you mister.

Sadly for you, trying to bring the impossible due the absence of proof is a fallacy.

You should not use these resources, you know... ad ignorantiam is a bad move.

Furthermore, why do you think Orochimaru could restrain the movement of three of the four Hokages?

Doesn't that mean that the caster effectively CAN restrain these movements?

 

[WalksInShadows]

Hashirama was about to sacrifice himself, but Hagaromo, showed up and basically said, "There's another way..." Does God and Moses/Issac from the Bible ring a bell in that scene?

Hashirama wasn't about to sacrifice himself. He took exception to Tobirama wanting to use that lower body as a sacrifice by saying "there must be another way". That speech bubble came from him. Hagoromo didn't start his dialogue until 2 panels after.

To me, the only one that is purposely negating the evidence here is you mister.

operative words:"to me". Meaning it's just you having an opinion, and not proving something that can absolutely be found in the manga.

Sadly for you, trying to bring the impossible due the absence of proof is a fallacy.

so Madara breaking himself from the jutsu and saying "i can never be bound by such a jutsu" is absence of proof? Ok

You should not use these resources, you know... ad ignorantiam is a bad move.

in this case, you should have taken your own advice. It would've done you much better seeing as though you had to think of it before posting it.

Furthermore, why do you think Orochimaru could restrain the movement of three of the four Hokages?

probably because 3 of the four of them didn't know how to break it *facepalm*

Doesn't that mean that the caster effectively CAN restrain these movements?

only if the person under the jutsu is either too weak to break free, or doesn't know how to. Such a moronic question to ask *facepalm*

 

[Byron123]

Hashirama wasn't about to sacrifice himself. He took exception to Tobirama wanting to use that lower body as a sacrifice by saying "there must be another way". That speech bubble came from him. Hagoromo didn't start his dialogue until 2 panels after.

operative words:"to me". Meaning it's just you having an opinion, and not proving something that can absolutely be found in the manga.

so Madara breaking himself from the jutsu and saying "i can never be bound by such a jutsu" is absence of proof? Ok

in this case, you should have taken your own advice. It would've done you much better seeing as though you had to think of it before posting it.

probably because 3 of the four of them didn't know how to break it *facepalm*

only if the person under the jutsu is either too weak to break free, or doesn't know how to. Such a moronic question to ask *facepalm*

Lol for real? That's your arguments? Then by that logic of yours why when Kabuto summoned all these dead shinobi, no one tried to kill him or even better why they kept fighting even if they had pointed on many occasions that they didn't want to do so? And in case you go by saying that he could just because he was stronger, do you think that he was stronger than all of them in total? Besides, don't forget that he could clearly control Nagato and tnagato is certainly stronger than him.

Madara might have been able to break the edo tensei but that happened once Kabuto released the seal. There is no guarantee that he would still be able to do it if Kabuto wasn't allowing him to do so. And after all, why he waited at that exact moment to do so? Had he been able to do it before, he wouldn't wait till that moment.