Spoiler: Izanagi and Izanami DO NOT need senju dna

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sarutobi01843

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You need senju DNA for this, it was said plenty of times, I mean for Izanagi, I won't tell anything about Izanami cause it's unkown jutsu. Izanagi requires both Senju and Uchiha to perform it, PEACE. You won't regret it, it was said by the man who can use this jutsu, and fight Madara vs Hashirama was for madara to get hands on Hashi powers.
Thank You :izuna:
 

jabznaruto

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Ok ill try to take this slow,
1. Itachi said in order to use it before the decade was done you need to have senju Chakra for proof here you go
2. Ive made it very clear no i dont agree with Blaze theory he is very free to have his own opinion and theory, and me and him have agreed on many other things, anyways,
Itachi was talking about in general due to the fact that kabuto was surprised by itachis skill level overcoming edo tensei but yet is underestimating them again but as it has been said in black and white tobi is madara and until the manga says he is not then i will stick to what it says, tobi IS an uchiha and he said it himself that you need senju DNA to complete izanagi, now if you read my previous post you would see my response to why i believe this to be true, now shisui's eye technique was his own not one developed nor used by so6p if you really want to see what i believe first read my previous post and then respond but the so6p and shisui are very different so comparing the situation is stupid but to be nice why is it that with senju DNA or chakra shisui's eye tech would be ready faster and that tech isnt anywhere near the class of izanagi the power of the senju has a direct effect on the uchiha and thus brings life to my point that in order to use a jutsu that the so6p used both powers would have to be reunited and then it would make it possible to use izanagi but dont act like if i didnt make myself clear in my last post and also izanami has yet to be explained so do me a favor and dont put your 2cents in when you have no facts or proof of what that tech does or the side effects other then loss of light to a sharingan when it is shown in the manga and explained then ill be more then happy to discuss it!!!! but farewell to you sir and goodday!!!!
i think i have to answer you again sarutobi01843.

i did read all your posts. bear with me posting just the last one prior to replying to your post. let's have ideas exchanged, no right and wrong - just for the sake of discussion...is it okay?

1. no doubt you are correct here. but let me clarify things up, can i?
kotoamatsukami is shisui's jutsu. shisui is an uchiha. kotoamasukami is an uchiha true power. kotoamatsukami does not need senju dna when it was an original shisui jutsu. i believe this is clear enough. peace dude, no quarrel here. just tell me if you don't agree and i wont do something about it.

2. uh oh, bear with me again. now it is indeed clear. You don't agree with blaze in this thread. and that your foremost reason is tobi = tobi-madara.
(i guess we have a common theory in tobi as madara).
but, isn't tobi a former shell of madara? don't you think tobi-madara as an uchiha COULD NOT cast izanagi because he is incomplete, and not because he needs senju dna? peace again dude. i just need to know what you think?

and comparing so6p to shisui is not utterly stupid. coherence tells and leads us to "itachi's remarks in the chapter" and "itachi's remarks on the previous matters". no debate here dude.
let me share to you (and to all other interested mangakas), no deal if this isn't taken...
1. you are right again. so6p and shisui are 2 difft manga identities. so no point of comparison.
2. you are correct. kotoamatsukami and izanagi/izanami are different levels of jutsus and non-comparable arts. no common point.

my friend in ideas, sarutobi01843-kun, our common point of discussion is itachi (i guess - do correct me). and the point of clarification is "ITACHI BEING ABLE TO CAST IZANAGI AND/OR IZANAMI".
my take - YES
your take - NO
i offer to your a non-egoistic wager. just for the fun of it.

i do sense we both like itachi. i believe in itachi more than i do believe tobi (this is me, do you?).
when itachi mentioned "THE TRUE POWER OF UCHIHA", it is more than proof enough for me that he does not need any senju dna.
he or sasuke could cast the kinjutsus.

and i do believe that itachi, in doing so, will free many souls.

give my regards to blaze. been reading your posts - agreed and disagreed.
blaze might need me in his battles. unless he tells me so, both of us are welcome to comment. opening my mouth would mean opening your mouth as well having the same equal rights in opinion.
itachi did rig the shisui jutsu for Naruto. Naruto "unknowingly" used the jutsu indirectly - which was prepared for sasuke. c'mon, semantics is a vague thing. can't share something if it ain't clear enough.
Naruto is like this, plain and simple and stupid at times. don't be so combative.

'til next dude!
 
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sarutobi01843

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i think i have to answer you again sarutobi01843.

i did read all your posts. bear with me posting just the last one prior to replying to your post. let's have ideas exchanged, no right and wrong - just for the sake of discussion...is it okay?

1. no doubt you are correct here. but let me clarify things up, can i?
kotoamatsukami is shisui's jutsu. shisui is an uchiha. kotoamasukami is an uchiha true power. kotoamatsukami does not need senju dna when it was an original shisui jutsu. i believe this is clear enough. peace dude, no quarrel here. just tell me if you don't agree and i wont do something about it.

2. uh oh, bear with me again. now it is indeed clear. You don't agree with blaze in this thread. and that your foremost reason is tobi = tobi-madara.
(i guess we have a common theory in tobi as madara).
but, isn't tobi a former shell of madara? don't you think tobi-madara as an uchiha COULD NOT cast izanagi because he is incomplete, and not because he needs senju dna? peace again dude. i just need to know what you think?

and comparing so6p to shisui is not utterly stupid. coherence tells and leads us to "itachi's remarks in the chapter" and "itachi's remarks on the previous matters". no debate here dude.
let me share to you (and to all other interested mangakas), no deal if this isn't taken...
1. you are right again. so6p and shisui are 2 difft manga identities. so no point of comparison.
2. you are correct. kotoamatsukami and izanagi/izanami are different levels of jutsus and non-comparable arts. no common point.

my friend in ideas, sarutobi01843-kun, our common point of discussion is itachi (i guess - do correct me). and the point of clarification is "ITACHI BEING ABLE TO CAST IZANAGI AND/OR IZANAMI".
my take - YES
your take - NO
i offer to your a non-egoistic wager. just for the fun of it.

i do sense we both like itachi. i believe in itachi more than i do believe tobi (this is me, do you?).
when itachi mentioned "THE TRUE POWER OF UCHIHA", it is more than proof enough for me that he does not need any senju dna.
he or sasuke could cast the kinjutsus.

and i do believe that itachi, in doing so, will free many souls.

give my regards to blaze. been reading your posts - agreed and disagreed.

'til next dude!
In all honesty i dont know if your trying to be sarcastic or not i dont know you so for the sake of avoiding an argument ill play nice, in fact itachi is one of my favorite characters but it has been said already by an uchiha and whether or not tobi is the shell of the real madara or not his remark was in order to use izanagi you need to have senju DNA, he didnt say i needed senju or that senju DNA is just an extra step to avoid over exhaustion he said it was necessary for izanagi to work now once again if next Wednesday itachi comes out and says he can use izanami even without senju and he can perform izanagi without senju DNA then i will accept it and move on but for now i refuse to go against the manga and put my own 2cents in and say that senju DNA isnt necessary. Itachi has yet to even hint at the possibility that he can perform izanagi now once again i refuse to comment on izanami due to the fact that izanami to me anyways is an unknown technique and just with itachi's remark that it has been prepared tells me that theres more to him being able to perform this tech then just Uchiha's True Power, it took a certain type of preparation then just gaining a power! What did you mean by "no quarrel here. just tell me if you don't agree and i wont do something about it." what would you do??? I completely agree due to the fact that shisui developed that jutsu on his own with his growing skill in it, but like it was said senju chakra would allow a user of shisui's eyes to reuse it again sooner.

I dont want to be combative but it seems to me like you are talking down or trying to be very sarcastic and disrespectful and the one thing that i cant stand is being disrespected and if this is actually how you respond in a conversation then i apologies but if not then knock it off cause im not gonna just sit by while you talk to me as though im an idiot!!!
 
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jabznaruto

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In all honesty i dont know if your trying to be sarcastic or not i dont know you so for the sake of avoiding an argument ill play nice, in fact itachi is one of my favorite characters but it has been said already by an uchiha and whether or not tobi is the shell of the real madara or not his remark was in order to use izanagi you need to have senju DNA, he didnt say i needed senju or that senju DNA is just an extra step to avoid over exhaustion he said it was necessary for izanagi to work now once again if next Wednesday itachi comes out and says he can use izanami even without senju and he can perform izanagi without senju DNA then i will accept it and move on but for now i refuse to go against the manga and put my own 2cents in and say that senju DNA isnt necessary. Itachi has yet to even hint at the possibility that he can perform izanagi now once again i refuse to comment on izanami due to the fact that izanami to me anyways is an unknown technique and just with itachi's remark that it has been prepared tells me that theres more to him being able to perform this tech then just Uchiha's True Power, it took a certain type of preparation then just gaining a power! What did you mean by "no quarrel here. just tell me if you don't agree and i wont do something about it." what would you do??? I completely agree due to the fact that shisui developed that jutsu on his own with his growing skill in it, but like it was said senju chakra would allow a user of shisui's eyes to reuse it again sooner.

I dont want to be combative but it seems to me like you are talking down or trying to be very sarcastic and disrespectful and the one thing that i cant stand is being disrespected and if this is actually how you respond in a conversation then i apologies but if not then knock it off cause im not gonna just sit by while you talk to me as though im an idiot!!!
im not talking down to my friends in exchanging ideas. im not that sarcastic either. and never did i think that you are an idiot.

i dont know you either. what is wrong in this exchange is that we would want to know each other, right?

try exchanging with me longer. this is the way i convey my ideas.
bear with my intrusion.

i will go talk and exchange with blaze next.
thanks dude for the 3 reps or so. 'twas an intellectual one.

won't be bothering you from now on.
have to practice kicks 1000x.
 
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sarutobi01843

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OK
And like i said if that is the way you actually converse then i do apologies and didnt mean to be so aggressive.
p.s Then you would be one to fear lololol
 
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serpiente clan

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I read o the page and every one said, to get ability you need seju blood to get rannegan you need senju blood...

Bo what happen is the senju is the one getting the uchiha blood to became the sage...

What you guys think.....
 

squigles

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Here's some clarifications for all you moronic *******s who don't seem to want to listen to logic and reason.

1. All Uchiha techniques that are born of ocular Jutsus are available AS IS to any Uchiha who can learn how to use them.

2. All Uchiha techniques that are born of ocular Jutsus are available AS IS to any non Uchiha who acquire Uchiha eyes in a transplant, and then learn how to use them.

3. All instances of Tobi or Madara discussing Senju, are actually referring to one specific guy, Hashirama Senju, and his wood release element that is a bloodline trait unique only to Hashirama. All other Senju are irrelevant.

4. The use of Hashirama's DNA empowers existing Uchiha techniques, enhancing their capabilities and effects. Nothing more, nothing less.

5. This thread is wrong, and many of you posting in it are wrong.

Go **** yourselves.
 

~WastelandSociety~

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Except for the fact that you didn't buy the manga.

Idiot...
:eek:
Um,what? Have you been folllowing me around or something to say I didn't buy the manga?

I'm sorry but you're the idiot . Last I checked I always bought Naruto mangas at book stores such as barnes and noble,etc.


Kid,you just need to calm down and except the fact that your wrong.. That the manga does say so :rolleyes:
 
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sarutobi01843

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Here's some clarifications for all you moronic *******s who don't seem to want to listen to logic and reason.

1. All Uchiha techniques that are born of ocular Jutsus are available AS IS to any Uchiha who can learn how to use them.

2. All Uchiha techniques that are born of ocular Jutsus are available AS IS to any non Uchiha who acquire Uchiha eyes in a transplant, and then learn how to use them.

3. All instances of Tobi or Madara discussing Senju, are actually referring to one specific guy, Hashirama Senju, and his wood release element that is a bloodline trait unique only to Hashirama. All other Senju are irrelevant.

4. The use of Hashirama's DNA empowers existing Uchiha techniques, enhancing their capabilities and effects. Nothing more, nothing less.

5. This thread is wrong, and many of you posting in it are wrong.

Go **** yourselves.
All right a$$**** who the **** do you think you are!!!!! First off your completely wrong just in everything you said i agree with blaze more then you!!!!!!!
once again i have to pull out this point Tobi/madara said it as clear as day THE ONLY WAY TO USE THIS JUTSU IS TO POSSES UCHIHA AND SENJU DNA!!!!!!!! So your right this thread is wrong and senju DNA IS necessary for izanagi!!!!!!!! Go F*** yourself and next time come with proof instead of plain simple idiotic S*** that comes out your mouth!!!!!!!!!! :flaw:
 

admireableman

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In my opinion sanju cell are necessary for izanagi and izanumai and itachi have both just like he have 3rd sharingan (sushi eye).Remember he was partner of orchimaru and orchimaru is the one who give danzo sanju's cells I think itachi also steel some information from orchimaru about sanlu's cells and implement it in his own way..........
THIS IS MY THEORY.
 

squigles

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:eek:
Um,what? Have you been folllowing me around or something to say I didn't buy the manga?

I'm sorry but you're the idiot . Last I checked I always bought Naruto mangas at book stores such as barnes and noble,etc.


Kid,you just need to calm down and except the fact that your wrong.. That the manga does say so :rolleyes:
1. Naruto manga is published in JAPANESE language.

2. The only time it's published in ENGLISH is months/years after it's already been published in Japan.

3. If you're buying it WHEN IT FIRST GETS PUBLISHED, you're getting it in Japanese, and unless you can read Japanese, you're having to have it translated before you can read it.

4. Those translations are completely dependent on the understanding of the Japanese language and the context by which Japanese people construct their communications.

5. You're basically trying to tell me that you went and read the manga as soon as it was translated and posted here by fans, and that you ALSO went out and bought an English published version, at the same time, which has absolutely ZERO discrepancies between the fan sub and the one you bought.

6. You're full of shit, you're an idiot, and you miss the point completely.


All right a$$**** who the **** do you think you are!!!!! First off your completely wrong just in everything you said i agree with blaze more then you!!!!!!!
once again i have to pull out this point Tobi/madara said it as clear as day THE ONLY WAY TO USE THIS JUTSU IS TO POSSES UCHIHA AND SENJU DNA!!!!!!!! So your right this thread is wrong and senju DNA IS necessary for izanagi!!!!!!!! Go F*** yourself and next time come with proof instead of plain simple idiotic S*** that comes out your mouth!!!!!!!!!!
You want proof that the fan subs are not 100% accurate or reliable?



vs




1. Never assume that just because a new chapter is out and someone translated it, that the translation is 100% accurate.

2. Never post on the forums about ANYTHING you have a theory about unless you've stood back and scrutinized the translations of the content you're talking about.

3. Learn to use critical thinking and logic skills to ask yourselves if something makes sense.


- Does it make sense that an Uchiha ninja would need the DNA of one particular Senju in order to use an Uchiha technique?

Out of all the techniques that are ocular jutsu, ONE out of ALL of them, requires that the user have DNA of both the Senju AND the Uchiha?

Are you smoking crack? IT WOULDN'T BE AN OCULAR JUTSU IF IT REQUIRED SENJU DNA TO EVEN BE POSSIBLE.
 

ruinairas

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Man!!!
Izanagi needs Hashirama cells to be used for sure...
Didn't Madara use the Izanagi to reverse time with his fight with Hashirama...am I missing something here? I know that he didn't have his DNA then...but he did manage to get some of it during the fight..no way he implanted it and mastered that skill in a few seconds lol.
 

Logan923

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EDIT:
Anyway this could be another theory and its actually backed by the manga somewhat. My theory was based on tobi not being an uchiha therefore using hashirama's cells, no different to danzo. But now ive another theory, its similar to the first one and in fact goes hand in hand.

I'l still hold my beliefs that a true uchiha can use both technique without hashirama dna, but its incomplete. That is the key word incomplete

Now i believe non uchiha's with the shairgan, need hashirama dna to use either technique's but that will also be incomplete.

Now this is where tobi comes in. Tobi was said to have the complete izanagi, whilst danzo was said to have the incomplete. This could turn the theory around and actually support the theory that tobi is indeed an uchiha. Because he is complete, he is not only an uchiha meaning he can use izanagi (although it will be incomplete), but with hashirama's cells he can use the complete izanagi, since he is a true uchiha, but also has hashirama cells.

So basically true uchiha's = incomplete
Non uchiha's with hashirama dna = incomplete
True uchiha + hashirama dna = complete
Tobi's goal all along was to 'become complete'. This is disturbing to me because if Izanagi was what made the SO6P a god (The ability to destroy, and make dream reality) Then perhaps this is Tobi's goal all along. Perhaps Izanagi becomes complete when you have Sharingan (Mongekyou), Rinnegan, and Senju DNA, to become like the SO6P. Also the ten tails might have something to do with it but I doubt it. Think about it this way.

What if Obito (I know I don't believe it either, its just a twist) got power hungry and found out about this. If he is tobi he already has the sharingan, rinnegan, and senju DNA. But its not confirmed he has mongekyou. What if its in his plans to kill kakashi to awaken it? Making him closer to completion. Just a theory.
 

violla

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:shrug:
In Japanese mythology, two deities Izanagi and Izanami are creator of Japan and other deities. So, they are the origin of everything that exists in Japan. In an important myth in Japan, told them down to Yomitsu Kuni, the underworld or world of darkness called. The story of Izanagi and Izanami is told in two works: the Kojiki (old record) and the Nihongi (Japanese history).

According to legend, after their emergence, Izanagi and Izanami stood on the bridge that floated up to heaven and the fuss over the ocean with a spear decorated with diamonds. When they lifted their spears, beads of water back into the water and form the first ground, the island called Onogoro. Izanagi and Izanami go down to the island and became husband and wife. Their first child with disabilities, and other gods told me that it happened because Izanami spoke before her husband at her wedding (sort of Japanese tradition).

The couple later married again. Izanami gave birth to eight children, who later became the islands of Japan. Izanagi and Izanami also created many gods and goddesses that symbolize mountains, valleys, waterfalls, rivers, wind, and other natural appearance. But the birth Kagutsuchi, the fire god, Izanami burned.

When Izanami died, Izanami went to Yomitsu Kuni. Izanagi decided to go down to Yomitsu Kuni and save her soul mate of world deaths. When approaching the gates of Yomi, Izanami greeted Izanagi from the shadows. Izanagi Izanami warned not to see him and said that he would plan his flight from Yomi (god Yomitsu Kuni). Because it is so missed his wife, Izanagi lit a torch to look for Yomi, but he was very surprised when I saw that Izanami is a rotten corpse. Not bear to see him, Izanagi fled.

Izanami angry, and he sent her demons, 8 god of thunder, and the fearsome army to chase Izanagi. Izanagi tried to get out and blocked the road between Yomi and the land of life with a big stone. Izanagi and Izanami met there and they were divorced.

Izanagi felt unclean after contact with the world of the dead. Because of that, he bathed separately purify himself again. A number of gods, both good and evil, arise from the clothes discarded by Izanagi. The sun goddess Amaterasu emerged from his left eye, the moon god Tsukiyomi from his right eye, and Susano-o of the nose. Then Izanagi three children share his kingdom to his pride.
:p
 

kyugon

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This chapter has basically confirmed by beliefs and bare with me ill explain. Izanagi has been explained as a doujutsu forbidden even amonst the uchiha;
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Izanam has been called a pair to izanagi and it would make sense. Meaning its also a forbidden doujutsu even amonst the uchiha and will most likely carry the same drawback which is the loss of an eye;
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Now both have been called forbidden techniques amonst the uchiha which clearly hints that its an uchiha technique that an uchiha can use.

This is the power of izanagi;
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Tobi then explains in detail that for izanagi you need both senju and uchiha, but in the same page he called it an uchiha forbidden technique;
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Tobi then says basically says that danzo was experimented on to increase the time of izanagi, he also said danzo's was incomplete;
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Now alot of people still think you need senju or should i say hashirama dna and that might be the requirements of izanagi only and not izanami, but since they are a pair it would make sense to say that you also need senju dna, but that isnt the case.

Both techniques have been said to be uchiha forbidden techniques which makes sense to assume that they can use it without hashirama dna. The only reason why people think you need hashirama dna is because danzo and tobi needed, but i ask you this, are they uchiha's.?. Danzo for a fact isnt an uchiha, but we still dont know about Tobi and tbh this chapter has hinted that he might not be an uchiha if he needed senju dna to use an uchiha forbidden technique.

I believe a true uchiha with an uchiha body and shairgan can use it without senju dna, whilst people with shairgan's but do not have uchiha blood/body/dna, need senju dna to use it. Example itachi has said that an uchiha blood is what is required for the sharigan to work best;

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This clearly also ties into the fact that a sick itachi spammed ms technique's quiet alot against sasuke and even activated susano's full form. Same as sasuke after spamming several ms techniques, he was still able to activate susano's full form against kakashi whilst kakashi at full health and 100% used one ms technique and this happened;
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What im basically saying is that it could be that only true uchiha's with uchiha body and blood can use their forbidden techniques, whilst outsiders with shairgan need senju dna



EDIT:
Anyway this could be another theory and its actually backed by the manga somewhat. My theory was based on tobi not being an uchiha therefore using hashirama's cells, no different to danzo. But now ive another theory, its similar to the first one and in fact goes hand in hand.

I'l still hold my beliefs that a true uchiha can use both technique without hashirama dna, but its incomplete. That is the key word incomplete

Now i believe non uchiha's with the shairgan, need hashirama dna to use either technique's but that will also be incomplete.

Now this is where tobi comes in. Tobi was said to have the complete izanagi, whilst danzo was said to have the incomplete. This could turn the theory around and actually support the theory that tobi is indeed an uchiha. Because he is complete, he is not only an uchiha meaning he can use izanagi (although it will be incomplete), but with hashirama's cells he can use the complete izanagi, since he is a true uchiha, but also has hashirama cells.

So basically true uchiha's = incomplete
Non uchiha's with hashirama dna = incomplete
True uchiha + hashirama dna = complete

well explained might be true
 

str8savage

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What if Tobi is Uzumaki bloodline??? That would explain his long life and the fact that he has a ton of Uchiha eyes in his lab...For example, say if the Leaf betrayed and use the Uzumaki clan like they did the Uchiha clan, that would make Naruto and Suskae story parallel...If Tobi where uchiha he would not have needed Nagato's eyes he would have activated his rinnegan like the true Madara did...so i think its clear that Tobi is not True Uchiha...but its all speculation at the end of the day...just a calculated guess
 
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