Speed and Reaction misconception

[End of Days]

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speed and reaction speed go with each other

 

[Mitarashi]

Yes those people are rather unpleasant, like how Kakashi couldn't use raikiri since his reaction time couldn't support his speed.

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You bespectacled beauty
( PS that anime is #1 )

 

[KingHashirama]

Well the page that actually shows the moment Minato got behind him if different than the page you are referring to. The one where Minato says "I can not fail". You see a bead of sweat dropping down Killer B's face as if he were startled, and then dialogue between Ay and on of his subordinates, which shows that considerable time had passed and Minato had not moved to attack right out of FTG. Then the next page is the page where you see Minato look down, Bee holding a knife, and then saying if he goes, Minato goes too. Since it's still picture we don't know if Killer B's knife was drawn out before or after Minato teleported, so it's up to whoever is reading to decide for themselves I guess.

Also in reference to Ay's lightning armor, I wasn't saying Ay's arm work vs Killer B's arm work. I was saying I doubt Killer B can thrust his arm back as fast as Ay can's foot speed in lightning armor. I say this because Minato was able to react and dodge Ay's foot speed in lightning armor from point blank, leading me to believe if he really wanted to kill Killer B and come out unharmed he could have. The guy I quoted below me also gave a good response to what I'm referring to.

Anyway I do agree with the premise of your thread. Reaction and speed aren't the same thing. Prediction/Anticipation is something different too

The sweat that you are referring to

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also. It was already there before Minato went after Killer B.

Plus notice Killer B's arm and hand were right in front of him before Minato did the FTG:

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But the moment he did it and appeared behind Killer B his hand was already up with the knife.

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speed and reaction speed go with each other

Not talking about Naruto's speed though. Since "shunshin" and etc are also techniques powered by chakra.

I'm talking about how the fans on here judge the speed. However the word speed hasn't been mentioned in the Manga itself when it comes to who is faster than who.

 

[Avinash012]

Almost 90% of NB already know that....

Nice thread.....

 

[KingHashirama]

Almost 90% of NB already know that and Minato is famous for his Reactions along with his speed not just Speed and is already stated in Manga....

Nice thread.....

Can you provide where the bold is?

glad you like it. =D

 

[Troyg39]

The sweat that you are referring to

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also. It was already there before Minato went after Killer B.

Plus notice Killer B's arm and hand were right in front of him before Minato did the FTG:

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But the moment he did it and appeared behind Killer B his hand was already up with the knife.

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Well if that's the case you just made my point. The scan you linked to the text is the scan that shows when Minato first got behind Killer B. You don't see the bead of sweat until this point.

As far as his hand placement before Minato did FTG, that too adds to my point. You don't see the blade until not only after Minato was already behind him, but Minato, Ay, and another ninja were all engaged in dialogue before we ever see the blade, indicating that Minato had not moved to attack right out of FTG. Then finally after all of this talking, we first see Minato look down, then we see the blade.

Since it is a still picture, the panel that shows when Minato first got behind Bee and Bee with his left arm not visible doesn't tell us whether or not his blade was already drawn or not. He could have pulled it out during the dialogue that was taking place, when Ay went to attack Minato, or during any other instance. Or when Minato looked down to observe what was going on, he could've been observing Bee taking the blade out right then. Minato's expression isn't one of shock either, so he didn't appear to be caught off guard, rather he looked like he was observing something.

Like I said it's up to the reader to interpret it how they wish, but due to Bee clearly being caught off guard as indication from the bead of sweat, and the fact that Minato clearly wasn't trying to harm Bee as he got behind him but started talking rather than attacking, I don't think Killer B reacted to FTG. He either had his blade out and ready just in case before Minato actually used FTG (while Ay was attacking) or Minato was observing him taking out the blade then, which would explain why Bee's arm in the first page wasn't visible.

Also notice that in the first page, Bee's right hand wasn't touching anything, yet in the next page he's holding his knee, proving Minato had allowed him to move around a little and suggesting Minato was observing him regain his composure and pull out the blade. Minato was most likely watching Bee pull out his blade though, because otherwise Bee is an idiot. Minato started talking, Ay started talking, and that other ninja, before Minato had even looked down. If Bee had really reacted to FTG and had his blade out that entire time, he should have stabbed Minato while they were talking. Then the whole "if I die you die too" scenario wouldn't have been necessary. Again, leading me to believe he didn't react to FTG

 

[KingHashirama]

Well if that's the case you just made my point. The scan you linked to the text is the scan that shows when Minato first got behind Killer B. You don't see the bead of sweat until this point.

As far as his hand placement before Minato did FTG, that too adds to my point. You don't see the blade until not only after Minato was already behind him, but Minato, Ay, and another ninja were all engaged in dialogue before we ever see the blade, indicating that Minato had not moved to attack right out of FTG. Then finally after all of this talking, we first see Minato look down, then we see the blade.

Since it is a still picture, the panel that shows when Minato first got behind Bee and Bee with his left arm not visible doesn't tell us whether or not his blade was already drawn or not. He could have pulled it out during the dialogue that was taking place, when Ay went to attack Minato, or during any other instance. Or when Minato looked down to observe what was going on, he could've been observing Bee taking the blade out right then. Minato's expression isn't one of shock either, so he didn't appear to be caught off guard, rather he looked like he was observing something.

Like I said it's up to the reader to interpret it how they wish, but due to Bee clearly being caught off guard as indication from the bead of sweat, and the fact that Minato clearly wasn't trying to harm Bee as he got behind him but started talking rather than attacking, I don't think Killer B reacted to FTG. He either had his blade out and ready just in case before Minato actually used FTG (while Ay was attacking) or Minato was observing him taking out the blade then, which would explain why Bee's arm in the first page wasn't visible.

Also notice that in the first page, Bee's right hand wasn't touching anything, yet in the next page he is using it to hold his knee, proving Minato had allowed him to move around a little and suggesting Minato was observing him regain his composure and pull out the blade

LOL!!!! SORRRYYY!!!!!! I fixed the scan that was gonna show the sweat. . Look at this scan:

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Shock and surprised are different though. Minato had nothing to be shocked about, but he was surprised (notice the dots) that he was countered, hence he praised Killer B.

The scan below shows that Killer B already had a blade in his hand before the fight with Minato began:

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The scan below now shows how killer B's arm were right next his thigh in the front. (right top panel).

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Also, Killer B's

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but when Minato came he seems to

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[Megatolium]

Speed accounts for both actual speed and reflexes, Minato has swift reflexes, after all reflexes is the speed the body reacts to its senses...

 

[KingHashirama]

Speed accounts for both actual speed and reflexes, Minato has swift reflexes, after all reflexes is the speed the body reacts to its senses...

however we here are talking about speed as in shunshin and ftg. (which is how most people determine their top 10 speedster list by).

 

[Avinash012]

Can you provide where the bold is?

glad you like it. =D

Asking for the scans of Minato being the fastest is same as not reading manga ....

Just having FTG/Speed does not make u the best ...One should have proper control over Speed and without proper reactions u can't use it properly in battle ...

Give FTG to Genma and ask him to dodge Rikage's attack he can't do that even in a 100 years....but Minato not only teleported when Rikage is at point blank range also managed to throw a kunai @ Rikage for his next move which is impossible for any shinobi (Exept Obito) in Manga which proves that he has the best reactions

 

[KingHashirama]

Asking for the scans of Minato being the fastest is same as not reading manga ....

Just having FTG/Speed does not make u the best ...One should have proper control over Speed and without proper reactions u can't use it properly in battle ...

Give FTG to Genma and ask him to dodge Rikage's attack he can't do that even in a 100 years....but Minato not only teleported when Rikage is at point blank range also managed to throw a kunai @ Rikage for his next move which is impossible for any shinobi (Exept Obito) in Manga which proves that he has the best reactions

Reread my post and look clearly at what i asked the scans for.

And where did I say Minato has bad reactions? . The argument is that FTG and fast people can be countered by non-fast shinobi with reflexes and reaction timing.

Tobirama managed to put an seal and paper bomb tags on an Obito who blitzed past them.. so.. yea, something Minato hasn't been able to do.

Tsunade stole Naruto's money without us the readers or Naruto noticing when it happened.. Quickness and things like shunshin are slightly different.

 

[Troyg39]

LOL!!!! SORRRYYY!!!!!! I fixed the scan that was gonna show the sweat. . Look at this scan:

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Ahh I see. That takes care of the bead of sweat, however......

Shock and surprised are different though. Minato had nothing to be shocked about, but he was surprised (notice the dots) that he was countered, hence he praised Killer B.

Dots do not always mean surprised. They are often used to express just plain thought or curiousness. Minato's expression was neither shocked nor surprised, so that leads me to believe he was thinking about what he was observing.

The scan below shows that Killer B already had a blade in his hand before the fight with Minato began:

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The scan below now shows how killer B's arm were right next his thigh in the front. (right top panel).

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Congratulations lol. You just proved without a doubt that Killer B did not react to FTG and pulled his blades out only after Minato had gotten behind him, meaning what Minato was likely observing was Killer Bee pulling out the blades.

Notice here Bee has out his blades:

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Yet when Minato gets behind him, they are put away. Notice something missing from his right hand?:

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How about his left hand? Bottom panel bud:

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That right there proves he had put his blades away and had to pull them out again.

Also, Killer B's

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but when Minato came he seems to

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Yes his original position was his hand by his thigh, but not holding his knee. Also notice his knee was in the upward position, with his foot on the ground. When Minato got behind him, is knee and was down, foot no longer planted, hand touching nothing. When Minato looked down and we see Bee's blade, his hand is on his knee, proving movement.

Killer Bee didn't react to FTG. Minato got behind him, and only after Bee got behind him did Bee pull out his blades. That is what Minato was observing when we saw him look down. Minato gave him a compliment because he was impressed by Bee's never die spirit and attempt to take his foe to death with him, like a true killer shinobi would

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

FTG doesn't have anything to do with speed.

And FTG isn't "considered" instant it is instant its a space time ninjustu

You are correct about the difference between reaction and raw speed which equates to reflexes and agility.

Though i can already hear it now al the noobs rushing in to try and explain why a certain character would be able to draw minato if it really came down to it.

Killer Bee is one of the few exceptions seeing as he has both speed and great reflexes.

It is also worth nothing that he only used LVL 1 of the justu

If he incoporates a shadow clone then he can revolve his actual body with that one and kill the person even if they have the reflexes to react to it.

This isn't an opinion there are actual 3 levels and lvl one is the striaght forward version lvl 2 is witching with the kunai and lvl 3 is rotating between multiple clones.

Thanks for pointing this out nonetheless though

 

[KingHashirama]

Ahh I see. That takes care of the bead of sweat, however......



Dots do not always mean surprised. They are often used to express just plain thought or curiousness. Minato's expression was neither shocked nor surprised, so that leads me to believe he was thinking about what he was observing.



Congratulations lol. You just proved without a doubt that Killer B did not react to FTG and pulled his blades out only after Minato had gotten behind him, meaning what Minato was likely observing was Killer Bee pulling out the blades.

Notice here Bee has out his blades:

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Yet when Minato gets behind him, they are put away. Notice something missing from his right hand?:

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How about his left hand? Bottom panel bud:

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That right there proves he had put his blades away and had to pull them out again.



Yes his original position was his hand by his thigh, but not holding his knee. Also notice his knee was in the upward position, with his foot on the ground. When Minato got behind him, is knee and was down, foot no longer planted, hand touching nothing. When Minato looked down and we see Bee's blade, his hand is on his knee, proving movement.

Killer Bee didn't react to FTG. Minato got behind him, and only after Bee got behind him did Bee pull out his blades. That is what Minato was observing when we saw him look down. Minato gave him a compliment because he was impressed by Bee's never die spirit and attempt to take his foe to death with him, like a true killer shinobi would

OHHHHHHHH nice catch!!!!

However, if you look at it closely Minato was looking at Ay and not B. And actually Killer B had 1 blade pulled out if you noticed carefully in the scan that i stated his arms are in the front. He has 1 blade pulled out ( the left hand side) , since Ay said it was time to attack.

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But again was he in the position he got in when Minato came to him? no. In the end he reacted to Minato.

Also what you described in the Bold, only proves that he was tipped off by Minato..And Minato himself is a true killer shinobi, hence why he didn't have any reason to be surprised about. Notice that he left after that. .

 

[Bogard]

Speed = Swiftness of movements and reaction speed

So when people say Minato is the fastest ninja it's because his swiftness of movements and reaction speed is above others

As an example you can find the fight against Obito. The one who won was the one who reacted faster than the other

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His movements speed are so fast than even Raikage(second fastest) was baffled about his movements speed

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[Avinash012]

And where did I say Minato has bad reactions? . The argument is that FTG and fast people can be countered by non-fast shinobi with reflexes and reaction timing.

Didn't u said that Minato don't have the best reaction time...?

Tobirama managed to put an seal and paper bomb tags on an Obito who blitzed past them.. so.. yea, something Minato hasn't been able to do.

Tobirama managed to attack at the cost of his own life(IF he is alive) and that is against a brainless and MInato avoided the attack without geting a single scratch and managed to attack Rikage (Thanks to bee he managed to survive)

See the difference

Tsunade stole Naruto's money without us the readers or Naruto noticing when it happened.. Quickness and things like shunshin are slightly different.

Even Iruka can do that to a Genin ..ur point..?

 

[fastrthnwind]

typically reaction speed goes hand in hand with footspeed, though if one is not experienced enough, then their reaction speed wont be up to par with their footspeed, resulting in a weakness to people with the very effective counter attacks.

Most taijutsu specialits or kenjutsu users possess high levels of both footspeed and reaction speed.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

Speed = Swiftness of movements and reaction speed

So when people say Minato is the fastest ninja it's because his swiftness of movements and reaction speed is above others

As an example you can find the fight against Obito. The one who won was the one who reacted faster than the other

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His movements speed are so fast than even Raikage(second fastest) was baffled about his movements speed

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No.

Speed is not the same
Reaction time depends on agility of your reflexes not your actual speed.


Google Speed & Agility

These are something you cannot debate.

P.S.



"Speed = Swiftness of movements and reaction speed"
You said the same thing twice lol Reaction speed and swiftness of movment is synomous for reaction time.

This only furthers how little you understand about the stuff yor posting lol
////Post

 

[Troyg39]

OHHHHHHHH nice catch!!!!

However, if you look at it closely Minato was looking at Ay and not B. And actually Killer B had 1 blade pulled out if you noticed carefully in the scan that i stated his arms are in the front. He has 1 blade pulled out ( the left hand side) , since Ay said it was time to attack.

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But again was he in the position he got in when Minato came to him? no. In the end he reacted to Minato.

Also what you described in the Bold, only proves that he was tipped off by Minato..And Minato himself is a true killer shinobi, hence why he didn't have any reason to be surprised about. Notice that he left after that. .

Ahh true I see one missing from his back now. And yes that Minato is something else.

 

[KingHashirama]

Apologies if i'm causing any confusion.

Speed = Swiftness of movements and reaction speed

So when people say Minato is the fastest ninja it's because his swiftness of movements and reaction speed is above others

As an example you can find the fight against Obito. The one who won was the one who reacted faster than the other

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His movements speed are so fast than even Raikage(second fastest) was baffled about his movements speed

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Not truly. Let me give an another example. Orochimaru who has 4+ in speed wasn't able to react to someone who has 3.5 in speed even when he was looking at her.. He has the speed.. but couldn't react to it. Hence why I'm saying its not the same.

Also, fastest is implied to "movement" in the manga, never in reaction. However the "speed" is referred to the databook category of "Speed".

I'm talking about real reaction .. not from Naruto-verse point of view. So please don't get that confused. Your reactions don't have to be highest , to have the fastest speed.. Your speed doesn't have to be the fastest to get the highest reaction prowess.

Didn't u said that Minato don't have the best reaction time...?

Tobirama managed to attack at the cost of his own life(IF he is alive) and that is against a brainless and MInato avoided the attack without geting a single scratch and managed to attack Rikage (Thanks to bee he managed to survive)

See the difference



Even Iruka can do that to a Genin ..ur point..?

Tobirama didn't attack. And also, no one could've dodged that surprise blitz.. unless maybe FTg.. but he didn't have any ftg markings ready. But in the end he reacted by putting a seal on him, knowing he was a zombie.