[Discussion] Something suspicious about religion.

[UchihaBrat]

I'll say this first and that is that this is in no way meant to disparage Christianity, which is the religion I'm going to talk about initially in this thread, since it is the only example I know of which is clearly related to the topic. That is, I'm not targeting Christianity, I just don't know enough about other religions to be able to say the same about them, so no flaming please.

I've just noticed it while reading and learning about it throughout life as you learn about many other religions, and what I noticed was a pretty weird and somewhat hypocritical difference. Well, I might be over thinking things when I say it seems hypocritical, but..

Why is it that I've never seen any "ugly" looking angels? Why is it only that the Devils/demons are ugly?
I mean, isn't that a little weird in a way?? Why aren't there any "average" looking angels.
Note that I'm using the words 'beautiful, ugly, average etc.' with some caution, as these are relative to preferences and not necessarily true.

Don't you hear about some children for example 'She looks like an angel!' and that they mean she looks adorable, cute? They certainly aren't saying she looks 'bad', right??

I just find it somewhat suspicious that Heavenly things are mostly associated with beautiful creatures and vice-versa.

What do you guys think about this? Are there any other examples,

Follow the rules or get familiar with the infractions!! That means no spamming, flaming or insults/slurs of any kind!

edit: What is it with me and typos in the titles today?-_-..

 

[zenkutsu]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

this dates back to ancient times. people were not excepting back then, not like we are today. also it is an art choice. angels, gods, were suposed to be sublime humans, therefor the art style was to make them perfect. if angels looked ugly and demons looked good then people might confuse them. in the middle ages people couldn't read. so they told a story in their art. to differentiate between good and evil there had to be a cosmetic difference so that there would be no confusion. saying revolving around angelic or demonic quality stem from this

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I love these kinds of threads but unfortunatly this thread just like mine is gonna get closed.

We don't know that yet, it depends on whether people can keep it clean or not. It's not as if every discussion about religion needs to turn out bad..
So, what are your thoughts on this?

@Zenkutsu: Oh! Indeed that's a good point about religion being told through art, I remember my religions teacher telling me about this!
I still find it weird though, that I haven't seen any average looking angels or demons for that matter eitherxd. It is indeed a way to differentiate between the two, but I'm aslo curious as to what drives us to associate that which is heavenly with beauty vice-versa.
I recall reading a study about humans liking symmetrical faces, finding the harmonious somehow, maybe that's another reason? Thank you for your splendid answer!

 

[F1N1X]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I'll say this first and that is that this is in no way meant to disparage Christianity, which is the religion I'm going to talk about initially in this thread, since it is the only example I know of which is clearly related to the topic. That is, I'm not targeting Christianity, I just don't know enough about other religions to be able to say the same about them, so no flaming please.

I've just noticed it while reading and learning about it throughout life as you learn about many other religions, and what I noticed was a pretty weird and somewhat hypocritical difference. Well, I might be over thinking things when I say it seems hypocritical, but..

Why is it that I've never seen any "ugly" looking angels? Why is it only that the Devils/demons are ugly?
I mean, isn't that a little weird in a way?? Why aren't there any "average" looking angels.
Note that I'm using the words 'beautiful, ugly, average etc.' with some caution, as these are relative to preferences and not necessarily true.

Don't you hear about some children for example 'She looks like an angel!' and that they mean she looks adorable, cute? They certainly aren't saying she looks 'bad', right??

I just find it somewhat suspicious that Heavenly things are mostly associated with beautiful creatures and vice-versa.

What do you guys think about this? Are there any other examples,

Follow the rules or get familiar with the infractions!! That means no spamming, flaming or insults/slurs of any kind!

edit: What is it with me and typos in the titles today?-_-..

1st of all,Christianity came from the catholic church which if u read their history it would answer your question
But I'll tell u just clear your mind that No one has a good imagination of what an Angel Looks like
The only reason why Angels are good looking & Devils are ugly is because Human Beings have taken it that since the Angels are the Good & Holy Beings then they should be the most beautiful & since the devil & demons are the Bad beings the should be less beautiful..In human Beings Head it's like this

Spoiler

BAD= ugly & GOOD=BEAUTY

...It is in the bible but i can't good into that now..it says that NOT EVERYTHING IS AS IT IS IN THE SIGHT OF GOD..so in the sight of GOD there is no ugly or beauty of the face or body..The only beauty that matter is the beauty of your soul that is what GOD looks for..
I can't good into details now,so this should answer your question.U_U.If u need further explanation let me know

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Well, i don't got the time but maybe later this day if this thread still open i might go in on it more.
But i don't believe, many reasons for that.
And i think that some people simply need someone to guide them (God).
About the Angel thing i'f never thought about it, but now u mention it you have a good point.

You're welcome to post again, but also remember to keep to the topic at hand, I've noticed how these kinds of threads often gets off track easily..

@F1N1X: Woah calm down, I don't remember asking about the origins of Christianityxd Sure, it developed out of Catholicism and I know there are lots of different kinds other than these two.

It seems to be as you say, that we have taken to to concept of Holy beings being associated with beauty and the other way around.
It think it might also be that this difference, beautiful and ugly being connected to Good and Bad respectively, is a means of helping us to understand what Good and Bad means no?

I mean, sure, what's depicted in all these paintings and so on is what painters think of it, it's not necessarily how things are as I believe is what you're trying to say there in your last sentences, but what I want to find out, if possible, is why we associate it like this. It is already known that we do, so the question hasn't really been answered..
Thank you for your reply though, it was very insightful!

 

[bornfree]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Its what people want to believe in. If you look closely, white people worship white jesus, black people worship black jesus, and even asians worship asian jesus! Although buddha was Indian, he is portrayed as Asian because most Buddhists are Asians. There is no right or wrong here. Religion is personal and people associate positive things with religion. Its easier to believe angels look cute than ugly. Even in manga, every popular character is so casually good looking! its like they went to a hairdresser before a battle! Real life heroes are many times ugly and have bad teeth or hair. We wanna follow good looking things, its all in the head!

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Its what people want to believe in. If you look closely, white people worship white jesus, black people worship black jesus, and even asians worship asian jesus! Although buddha was Indian, he is portrayed as Asian because most Buddhists are Asians. There is no right or wrong here. Religion is personal and people associate positive things with religion. Its easier to believe angels look cute than ugly. Even in manga, every popular character is so casually good looking! its like they went to a hairdresser before a battle! Real life heroes are many times ugly and have bad teeth or hair. We wanna follow good looking things, its all in the head!

This is another point for discussion, about people of 'different'(to some extent) origins believing in deities having similar looks as them!
I think you might be onto something when you say it's what people want.
No right or wrong indeed, that is mere concept, not reality at all.

Yes, it is easier and also somehow more pleasant, isn't it? This, I think, brings us back to the study I mentioned above, about people in general liking symmetrical faces etc., because it's somewhat harmonious.
It's an 'ugly' issue this about there being few 'bad' looking heroes in manga/anime, fiction as it is.
Thank you for your POV!

 

[Xentinel]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I guess many people had shared their view and you probably get the answer UchihaBrat. So no point sharing my view as my view will be the same like the others.

Not to change the topic. But I wonder what you believe in?

Also, the title of this thread is "Something suspicious about religion". My question is what is the suspicious thing?

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

I guess many people had shared their view and you probably get the answer UchihaBrat. So no point sharing my view as my view will be the same like the others.

Not to change the topic. But I wonder what you believe in?

Also, the title of this thread is "Something suspicious about religion". My question is what is the suspicious thing?

Yes, there have been good replies already!

What I can see with my eyes more or less. Everything else will remain ideas and concepts as far as I'm concerned. So it works both ways, I don't say there isn't a God, because I haven't seen him, but I won't believe he exists him until I see him for myself. Then again, what is God? Would I recognise him/her/it if I saw it? Is it perhaps not something you see, but understand? The questions are many, but they are also off topic as you imply.

What I find suspicious is that I don't ever see any 'average' looking deities, only either of the extremes, if I may put it so. BUT, I have read and the replies have somehow changed my view to this being mostly something of human creation.

 

[The Riddlerr]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

The easiest way I can put it is simple - Heaven is viewed as perfection and when you're in Heaven, you are perfect. You're an Angel... However when you're a Demon, you're viewed as Ugly because Evil was once viewed as Ugly - Think about fairy tales as well... The wicked witch for example or Rasputin from Anastasia... Because they're Evil, they are displayed as looking Ugly.

Drawing Demons this way was portrayed to scare people, mostly children. If a child is scared of something, they will often avoid it - So by showing them these images of Hell being a scary place and Demons being Ugly and Evil and Scary, it was supposed to turn children off a bad life so they may go to Heaven and be perfect.

 

[The Eye]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

Well its mainly humans imagination. the bible is a book written by men. i dont think saying lets all become god in gods eyes and become ugly looking angel would want people to convert. lolz. yes god sees everyone as his children and etc, it i just the humanistic influence of looking better, even in the after life. no one wants to look worst others want to look even better. i always thought that if you die and go to heaven, yout brought back to how you were when you died. so i never thought about it other than that. but who knows until we die.

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

The easiest way I can put it is simple - Heaven is viewed as perfection and when you're in Heaven, you are perfect. You're an Angel... However when you're a Demon, you're viewed as Ugly because Evil was once viewed as Ugly - Think about fairy tales as well... The wicked witch for example or Rasputin from Anastasia... Because they're Evil, they are displayed as looking Ugly.

Drawing Demons this way was portrayed to scare people, mostly children. If a child is scared of something, they will often avoid it - So by showing them these images of Hell being a scary place and Demons being Ugly and Evil and Scary, it was supposed to turn children off a bad life so they may go to Heaven and be perfect.

Something along these lines are my thoughts as well, that it is in order to steer us.
But don't you agree that these differences also are also for helping us understand what Good and Bad is? With this I mean to say that it is easier for us to understand if there's something more concrete behind it, no?

@The Eye: You mean human imagination as in how we imagine Angels and Demons to look like?
Also, I don't think I can agree completely with what you say about people not being satisfied with their looks. I've seen many examples of people who doesn't care to change their looks, sure they may want to look presentable, but not to the point of wanting to change their appearance with plastic surgery or something like that, though I can't deny that there exists people with such thoughts. Thoughts existing because of others' opinions to begin with..
Thank you for answering both of you!

 

[Darthlawsuit]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

When a picture was made of the King did they ever make an ugly picture of it? No they made him look as good and glorious as possible, even if he was an ugly bastard.

When you talk about something good it typically looks good. When you talk about something evil or foreign you warp it.

 

[Olorin]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

well religion is man-made so it fits that we would imagine something that can ultimalety ''save'' us and gives us hope as something that we find beautiful or pleasant in our mind

 

[Melizzle]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

As far as actual text its more in relation to the soul. In physical appearance demons can be beautiful, its alluring and romanticized to be bad Lucifer was an angel doesnt that make him beautiful?

 

[UchihaBrat]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

When a picture was made of the King did they ever make an ugly picture of it? No they made him look as good and glorious as possible, even if he was an ugly bastard.

When you talk about something good it typically looks good. When you talk about something evil or foreign you warp it.

Spoiler

There's a great difference here, because the kings actually existed, angels and other supernatural beings were depicted from imagination as far as I can tell, unless someone actually saw one once~ So I don't think it is directly related in that way, but the concept might be, that of it being typical.

As far as actual text its more in relation to the soul. In physical appearance demons can be beautiful, its alluring and romanticized to be bad Lucifer was an angel doesnt that make him beautiful?

WAS, then he fell and became ugly, simple as that.
I think I get your point though, but can't think of any examples..

 

[Melizzle]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

WAS, then he fell and became ugly, simple as that.
I think I get your point though, but can't think of any examples..

You have to take it with a grain of salt. I am Christian but I'm a scholar too and am not afraid of knowing where the religion comes from and why texts in the Bible are written the way they are. Keep in mind when the books were written what audience it as for, what was happening socially at the time and why things may have been written in the context that they were. Everyone will describe an angel as beautiful because its just a part of the light and what is considered desirable, not cos we see them flying all around all the time lol. Same with demons lol

 

[Xentinel]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

What I can see with my eyes more or less. Everything else will remain ideas and concepts as far as I'm concerned. So it works both ways, I don't say there isn't a God, because I haven't seen him, but I won't believe he exists him until I see him for myself. Then again, what is God? Would I recognise him/her/it if I saw it? Is it perhaps not something you see, but understand? The questions are many, but they are also off topic as you imply.

Yeah I understand. =) You got your own right on believing that you prefer. ^^

So seeing is believing for you right?

well religion is man-made so it fits that we would imagine something that can ultimalety ''save'' us and gives us hope as something that we find beautiful or pleasant in our mind

You just made a statement that is out of the topic.

And if you want to share your view on religion, i don't mind debating with you all day long.

 

[Olorin]

Re: Something suspocious about religion.

You just made a statement that is out of the topic.

And if you want to share your view on religion, i don't mind debating with you all day long.

why out of the topic i just explained why evil is ugly and good is beautiful

something is beautiful because we say it is, not because it exists as such, same goes for good and evil something is good because it is something we want and evil something we dont like and dont want to occur and since we like beautiful and we like good its no wonder that somwhere throughout history those two values were put together

so where exactly was I out of topic?
oh as for religion, i would debate too but if we do, sadly, this thread is gonna get closed

 

[Swizzik]

I think Demons and Angels look the same. Lucifer was said to be the head angel I doubt he would turn ugly just because he was banished? Its like if Beyonce was exiled from this country would she suddenly turn ugly? Hell no. Lets say even if demons were ugly they can change form so whats the point?

why out of the topic i just explained why evil is ugly and good is beautiful

something is beautiful because we say it is, not because it exists as such, same goes for good and evil something is good because it is something we want and evil something we dont like and dont want to occur and since we like beautiful and we like good its no wonder that somwhere throughout history those two values were put together

so where exactly was I out of topic?
oh as for religion, i would debate too but if we do, sadly, this thread is gonna get closed

Nah Algalon you always do this in every religious thread you always insinuate that God isn't real. I get the feeling that you feel people are stupid if they believe in God, like your better than them. (sorry for double post).